Canadian parent raising child as gender-neutral.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

So I just read this article from the BBC.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40480386

To quote a small bit from the article...

An eight-month old Canadian baby has been issued a health card without a gender marker, in what could be the first case in the world.
Parent Kori Doty - a non-binary transgender person who identifies as neither male nor female - aims to allow the child to discover their own gender.
The health card has been issued with a "U" in the space for "sex", which could be for "undetermined" or "unassigned".
Kori Doty is fighting to omit the gender from the birth certificate.
The parent gave birth to Searyl Atli in November at a friend's home in British Columbia. Kori Doty, who prefers to use the pronoun they, argues that a visual inspection at birth is unable to determine what gender that person will have or identify with later in life.

Before post #3 asks what's OP's opinion....

Absolutely ridiculous. The poor child. As for its mother or whatever "THEY" want to be called, well you're a fücking idiot. I sincerely hope your child is taken from you to save HIM/HER from a life of absolute fücking misery. Hey read a science book you gowl.

B.A._Baracus

We live in a mad, mad world.

endacl

Its a load of bollix. All this fannying about.

:mad:

Tigger

I acually don't care if people want to be gender fluid and stuff
But that **** is stupid
It's a baby and unless it's a hamophrodife or whattever they'd be called it should be a baby boy or baby girl

DontThankMe

Bill Nye explains it well.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/07/03/bill-nye-the-science-guy-explained-the-gender-spectrum-and-its-perfectly-simple/

Barry Badrinath

Its all the internet's fault.

What was so wrong with being male or female?

hytrogen

Whatever about being born in a test tube it's pretty simple, inny or outy. After that it's all about choice and allowing emotions swat ones views on life and how you go about your.. business..

Ballstein

It's child abuse. The poor child should be taken off them before they inflict anymore misery and pain on him or her.

Senna

The child will probably be scared for life over this, but as long as the parents score some social points, I'm sure they are delighted and couldn't careless what damage this will do.

Collie D

It's a load of bollocks but calls to remove the child are a bit extreme. Probably not as bad as lumbering the child with a stupid name

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Before anyone attacks OP. I'm in no way homophobic or transphobic or any kind of phobic. You can self identify as an attack helicopter for all I care, but when you start pushing you're thing onto other people, expecting people to call you by your correct pronoun of "THEY" ****ing they, well then that's a different matter, and when you start pushing it onto kids, well fück you.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

I don't understand any of this shít. If the child:
- has a penis it's a boy
- has a vagina it's a girl
- has neither or both, they have a birth defect and something called ambiguous genitalia (just looked that up)

There's a reason some choices are taken away from us.

gizmo81

Gender is a state of being, socially and culturally constructed. Gender has little to do with what's between your legs.

gizmo81

But society has forced heterosexuality on everyone . . .

Why is this any different?

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Before anyone attacks OP. I'm in no way homophobic or transphobic or any kind of phobic. You can self identify as an attack helicopter for all I care, but when you start pushing you're thing onto other people, expecting people to call you by your correct pronoun of "THEY" ****ing they, well then that's a different matter, and when you start pushing it onto kids, well fück you.

LadyMacBeth_

No bother with transgender people but this child is not old enough to tell anyone that it is trans. How about you just assign the child the gender that is associated with its genitals and if the child expresses an issue with it in the future then deal with it then! Christ. I wouldn't be advocating taking the child away either, though the parent does sound like a bit of an idiot alright.

mdwexford

Person is a weirdo.

How Soon Is Now

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

That's how I feel about this subject.

Burial.

Gender: A reflection of one's self-image as relating to sexual nature. There are, in general, three genders:

1) Male
2) Female
3) Something you made up one day to feel speshul. E.g. "semiqueer-bi-spirit-shemale". May use made-up pronouns such as "xe", "ze", "schlee", "nflgsufgshuihousu", etc. Anyone who finds this ridiculous is a bigot and is literally Hitler.


"Can you believe that Facebook doesn't feature "transquasi-neutermale" in its gender selection?! This is making me sick. This is making it harder for me to achieve self-realization and be myself!"

mzungu

gizmo81 wrote: »

But society has forced heterosexuality on everyone

Has it?

IvySlayer

How dare they assume the child doesn't have a gender!

Isn't it better to raise the child as the way everyone else and let the child decide for itself?

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

gizmo81 wrote: »

But society has forced heterosexuality on everyone . . .

Why is this any different?

Society has forced heterosexually on everyone.

I'm embarrassed by how fücking stupid that is. It's called evolution, that's how we got here. Millions of years of men and women fücking has got us here to where we are. You can't blame "society" Jesus F Christ.

Senna

gizmo81 wrote: »

But society has forced heterosexuality on everyone . . .

Why is this any different?

I think you are mixing up millions of years of evolution, with modern society.

gizmo81

Yes, it's called compulsory heterosexuality, defined by Adrienne Rich.

mzungu wrote: »

Has it?

Quazzie

This kid knows more than this moron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_orhTtYS4dQ

super_furry

gizmo81 wrote: »

Yes, it's called compulsory heterosexuality, defined by Adrienne Rich.

Not sure I'd be taking the word of a poet as gospel on something like that.

gizmo81

Homosexuals and transexuals have been in existence since before 1869.

Senna wrote: »

I think you are mixing up millions of years of evolution, with modern society.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

gizmo81 wrote: »

Yes, it's called compulsory heterosexuality, defined by Adrienne Rich.

You mean evolution. We wouldn't have got far if everyone was gay.

Compulsory heterosexuality is a new one on me. Congrats, you've just made me feel a little stupider, how didn't I see this before.

judeboy101

mzungu wrote: »

Has it?

When adam met eve they had 2choices, screw each other or cucumber time. They choose each other. You are born with all X's or an XY your sex is genetically determined. You can scientifically test that, you can't test for gender therefore its not real.

gizmo81

I'm really glad I've helped widen your knowledge base, there's many books on the subject in our lovely free libraries.

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You mean evolution. We wouldn't have got far if everyone was gay.

Compulsory heterosexuality is a new one on me. Congrats, you've just made me feel a little stupider, how didn't I see this before.

Barry Badrinath

gizmo81 wrote: »

But society has forced heterosexuality on everyone . . .

Why is this any different?

Huh?

Forced?

Huh?

I imagine its our default setting.....heterosexuality's traditional purpose is to keep the species going.

Nowadays with surrogacy, turkey basting and whatever else that goes on it is not as necessary......so i wouldnt say heterosexuality is "forced" on you by society.

I would say its the opposite.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

super_furry wrote: »

Not sure I'd be taking the word of a poet as gospel on something like that.

Not when there's a thing out there called Scence. Unless gender is debunked by science I'm probably not going to take the word of a poet on the matter.

Senna

gizmo81 wrote: »

Homosexuals and transexuals have been in existence since before 1869.

I'm referring to you saying society forces heterosexuality, I'm saying it's natures dominates it.

Anyway, what has this got to do with the gender of a child, or do you just like to make every debate about your own topics?

OK, I'll accept that gender can be ambiguous, even though I think it's ridiculous and verges on confusing personality with gender there are smarter people than me, and many psychologists, who state this to be the case.

And if this is in fact the case then we need to remove gender from birth certs and add "sex" as your birth should be a matter of record and your sex is unquestionable except in a tiny minority of cases where there might be a hermaphrodite or similar.

And then even if there's a sex change, the birth cert should not change as it is a matter of record. You can change a passport or drivers licence in accordance with whatever genitals the person has as their purpose is to identify, your sex can be used to identify along with picture, name etc.


Lastly, if the ma in the OP is non binary, and is neither male nor female, then why the **** would you get a sex change!?!? Mental issues....

Does the article confuse sex and gender?

I mean, the birth cert identifies the sex of the child, based on appearance, but does gender not incorporate psychological, hormonal and chromosome considerations, and so gender can change?

gizmo81

I haven't time to educate the Knights of Colombanuranus. I'm sure you can understand a wiki page and hopefully move on to something of more academic rigour.

Common examples include the assumption that children will grow up to marry a person of the opposite sex, children must steer away from having friends of the opposite sex, sexual education books that exclusively discuss heterosexuality, the concept of "coming out", religious and secular organizations that assume all members are heterosexual, and believing that if one can pretend to be heterosexual that is better than being homosexual. Compulsory heterosexuality is seen as ignorant, a contributor to homophobia by marginalizing non-heterosexuals, treating heterosexuality as the superior default, and decreasing awareness of the large number of people within the population who are not heterosexual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_heterosexuality

LadyMacBeth_

I don't know, I mean I'm bi but I'm aware that I'm in the minority, I generally assume that people are straight unless I am told otherwise, most people are straight. It's like I'm left handed but I know that's unusual so I usually assume that someone is right handed. Doesn't mean I am enforcing right handedness on people.

cdeb

There was an article in National Geographic recently about gender. There was a bit where it said that people who said they were gender fluid/non-binary/whatever were something like 10 times more likely to be autistic.

I think that's a link well worth exploring before giving in to demands like this. Basically - are autistic people more likely to be influenced by popular trends? Are they making it up?

(Gender doesn't equate to sexuality obviously)

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

I am neither left handed or right handed and I take exception to your post!! I identify as ambidextrous. :pac: :cool:

LadyMacBeth_ wrote: »

I don't know, I mean I'm bi but I'm aware that I'm in the minority, I generally assume that people are straight unless I am told otherwise, most people are straight. It's like I'm left handed but I know that's unusual so I usually assume that someone is right handed. Doesn't mean I am enforcing right handedness on people.

me_irl

Time to break this one out again. :pac:

Dirty Dingus McGee

gizmo81 wrote: »

I haven't time to educate the Knights of Colombanuranus. I'm sure you can understand a wiki page and hopefully move on to something of more academic rigour.

Common examples include the assumption that children will grow up to marry a person of the opposite sex, children must steer away from having friends of the opposite sex, sexual education books that exclusively discuss heterosexuality, the concept of "coming out", religious and secular organizations that assume all members are heterosexual, and believing that if one can pretend to be heterosexual that is better than being homosexual. Compulsory heterosexuality is seen as ignorant, a contributor to homophobia by marginalizing non-heterosexuals, treating heterosexuality as the superior default, and decreasing awareness of the large number of people within the population who are not heterosexual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_heterosexuality

What a load of nonsense.The reason people assume children will grow up to marry a person of the opposite sex is because parents themselves are married to someone of the opposite sex.

Being gay puts you in the minority therefore it is perfectly natural to assume that children will not be gay because minority means minority.

retro:electro

"Canadian", how dare they assume its nationality!

Ann_Landers

The baby should be assigned by their biological gender. I mean, the baby's mother clearly was able to work out for herself (themself?) what she was (they were?) so can't the child do the same?

Burial.

anna080 wrote: »

"Canadian", how dare they assume its nationality!

Oh yeah wait before they come out with the free inhabitant of the Earth nonsense!

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Ann_Landers wrote: »

The baby should be assigned by their biological gender. I mean, the baby's mother clearly was able to work out for herself (themself?) what she was (they were?) so can't the child do the same?

The mother identifies as "they"...it would be wrong to assume they have any kind of common sense to establish what "they" are.

B.A._Baracus

On the subject of things I recently found out bisexual is now called pansexual.

Things be crazy.

hytrogen

gizmo81 wrote:

Gender is a state of being, socially and culturally constructed. Gender has little to do with what's between your legs.

Anatomically it does and defines how one procreates and therefore how one contributes to the evolution of the species.

gizmo81 wrote:

But society has forced heterosexuality on everyone . . .

Darwin 101

gizmo81 wrote:

Why is this any different?

Because as a child you are dependent on your parents to make those defensive and wise decisions for you and then for them to teach you to make your own decisions for yourself to finally determine whether they were right or wrong in what they chose to accomplish for you and society.

super_furry

Ann_Landers wrote: »

The baby should be assigned by their biological gender. I mean, the baby's mother clearly was able to work out for herself (themself?) what she was (they were?) so can't the child do the same?

It's like the other side of the 'don't let gay people adopt, they'll make gay children!' argument. Ignoring the fact that gay people are nearly almost the children of straight couples.

gizmo81

You are confusing sex and gender.

You completely miss the point of compulsory heterosexuality.

Parents make lots of decisions on behalf that they have no right to. Sexuality, Gender Identity, Religion etc

hytrogen wrote: »

Anatomically it does and defines how one procreates and therefore how one contributes to the evolution of the species.


Darwin 101


Because as a child you are dependent on your parents to make those defensive and wise decisions for you and then for them to teach you to make your own decisions for yourself to finally determine whether they were right or wrong in what they chose to accomplish for you and society.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

gizmo81 wrote: »

You are confusing sex and gender.

You completely miss the point of compulsory heterosexuality.

Parents make lots of decisions on behalf that they have no right to. Sexuality, Gender Identity, Religion etc

If anyone's confusing sex and gender it's you.

gizmo81

You are wrong.

Taken from the National Centre for Biotechnology Information, US National Library of Medicine, National Institutes of Health.

To discuss and address properly the differences in health and health care between men and women, it is necessary to distinguish between sex and gender and their respective effects on health. Sex differences are based on biological factors. These include reproductive function, concentrations of sexual hormones, the expression of genes on X and Y chromosomes and their effects and the higher percentage of body fat in women. By contrast, gender is associated with behaviour, lifestyle and life experience. It determines access to health care, use of the health care system and the behavioural attitudes of medical personnel.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3388783/

Hunky Monster wrote: »

If anyone's confusing sex and gender it's you.

cdeb

Further down the article -

The family's lawyer, barbara findlay, who chooses to spell her name without capital letters

Where the **** do they find these people?! Have they that little to be worrying about? Or are they that insecure in themselves that the come up with rubbish like this?