Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

ImportMeHappy

In real time it looked like Sagan stuck out the elbow, looks very intentional in the replays

longshanks

Broken shoulder for Cav.

RobertKK

Cavendish has a suspected broken shoulder.

Djoucer

In real time, it looks like racing incident. Elbow appears to come out only after they both touched

dahat

Sagan all at fault there for me, interesting to see how this fares out over next 24hrs.

neris

Itv saying Thomas is ok after crash

WinnyThePoo

Horrible crash. Does not look good for sagan.

topcat77

Not nice Msgr Segan, Can't see much being done to the golden boy of cycling though. As we know through experience with "he who shall not be named" .

I do like both cyclist and sad to see any major accident, hope Cav doesn't shout too loud.

neris

Looks like cav came down on his head and shoulder and didnt get a chance to get his hands out before he hit the deck

Sagan at the Dimension Data bus now.

death1234567

Great sprint by demare, he had some speed on there.

As for the crash, as Kelly would say 'thats bike racing'. Cav trying to get through a gap that wasn't there. The elbow came out after cav was already in the process of crashing.

Eamonnator

From looking at a few replays, I think Cav was already in trouble, when Sagan's elbow came out.

ImportMeHappy

Was just thinking the same, he was already going down..

https://twitter.com/LeTour/status/882256997734899713

death1234567

The overhead shots are misleading. The head on camera shows what happened better.

neris

Sagan was asked if he was sorry for what happened and said he was before his handler quickly bundled him off

Eamonnator

Yeah, I think Sagan threw the elbow, when Cav closed in on him.

Eamonnator

Cav was off balance, in the barriers, when Sagan put out his elbow

oflahero

ITV doing their best to find reasons to exonerate Sagan, but I can't see it. He's sprinting with the head down, following Demare's deviating wheel to the right, and screw anyone who's sticking to their line.

Ironic, he has similar form with Demare: http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/video-sagan-throws-elbow-into-demare-crashing-moto-nearly-hits-riders/

The elbow actually put him into the barrier. The space wasn't there but the elbow did the damage in the end.

velo.2010

Sagan was butting heads with Bouhanni some distance out. His elbow did come out but was it a reaction, the way you see footballers automatically put their hands up when a shot is fired towards their head?

ASO/commisaires will have a big decision to make now regarding Sagan. If at fault, do they send a message by sending him home or do they keep him in the race for commercial reasons.

longshanks

Looks like Cav was already falling and Sagan put the elbow out for balance. The slow replay looked different to real time.

dahat

He was shouting before Sagan threw out the elbow and maybe the elbow came out when Sagan heard Cav being vocal? He was never going to allow him free run through a tight gap.

kenmc

I'm not sure the elbow makes contact with cav, looks like he's further back, maybe gets Sagan's hip to his bars. Sagan's elbow looks to cross in front of cavs bars

Edit: the overhead shot looks more like Sagan connected right enough

WinnyThePoo

Lotto sudal manager taking shots.

Sagan's elbow is what put him down. Cav was off balance but you can its clear as day that sagan pushed him over with the elbow.

crash looked very nasty indeed.

hope Cavendish makes a speedy recovery.

WinnyThePoo

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Lotto sudal manager taking shots.

Greipal not friends with sagan anymore according to the lotto sudal guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ektcIyCKAh8

Looks fairly damming here imo for Sagan.
he cuts off Cav's space/line by coming across to his right and then elbow finishes him off.

robyntmorton

This is a very difficult call. To me, going frame by frame in that video tweet, it looked like Cav was tight to Sagan and was getting stuck onto his arm. Sagan did try to fend him off, but the elbow appeared to be the killer blow.

The comms are going to be slated whatever the outcome, really.

death1234567

robyntmorton wrote: »

This is a very difficult call. To me, going frame by frame in that video tweet, it looked like Cav was tight to Sagan and was getting stuck onto his arm. Sagan did try to fend him off, but the elbow appeared to be the killer blow.

It doesn't look like sagans elbow touched cav at all in that replay. The contact is on sagans hip/shoulder

neris

Cav saying he was elbowed and thats what put him down

Itziger

robyntmorton wrote: »

This is a very difficult call. To me, going frame by frame in that video tweet, it looked like Cav was tight to Sagan and was getting stuck onto his arm. Sagan did try to fend him off, but the elbow appeared to be the killer blow.

The comms are going to be slated whatever the outcome, really.

Never really like Cav and thought Sagan's win yesterday was just something else but there is NO WAY you can split the blame there. Or if you can it's 95% Sagan's fault. There's no-one edging him over that direction, he drifts a fair way over to where Cavendish was already and when they get too close, out comes the elbow.

Inquitus

Itziger wrote: »

Never really like Cav and thought Sagan's win yesterday was just something else but there is NO WAY you can split the blame there. Or if you can it's 95% Sagan's fault. There's no-one edging him over that direction, he drifts a fair way over to where Cavendish was already and when they get too close, out comes the elbow.

Completely Sagan's fault, bloody dangerous, doubt the Comms have the balls to DSQ him.

helimachoptor

death1234567 wrote: »

It doesn't look like sagans elbow touched cav at all in that replay. The contact is on sagans hip/shoulder

Yeah just going to post that, Sagan definitely moves across but it looks like there is some leg/hip contact that causes Cav's bike to cut in towards Sagan who then throws out the elbow

De Bhál

Cav well gone before that elbow popped out, he went down because Sagan followed wheel in front and cut Cav off

Andy Magic

Looked like Sagan's fault in all the videos I've seen. He closed the gap on the right to Cav to try stop him coming but Cav still did and got an elbow for it.

It's a shame for us watching though because now two very entertaining riders could be out of this tour.

Djoucer

Important to remember while replaying incident frame by frame, that this happened at close to 70kmph.

Can't see how anyone can say the incident is clear as day

Inquitus

5 hours of live coverage for 5 mins of racing!

kenmc

neris wrote: »

Cav saying he was elbowed and thats what put him down

Cav took a bump to the head though, may not be correct

Thud

De Bhál wrote: »

Cav well gone before that elbow popped out, he went down because Sagan followed wheel in front and cut Cav off

agreed, his bike is gone at this stage, elbow is starting to come out but no way he can get that bike upright in traffic

Itziger

Thud wrote: »

agreed, his bike is gone at this stage, elbow is starting to come out but no way he can get that bike upright in traffic

The only 'traffic' he has to deal with is Sagan!! And the Slovak came from almost the middle of the road to where he is in that pic. This is as clear a case as you're likely to see in a sprint crash.

dahat

Did Cav finish the stage? Just looks like hand damage on his Insta Story just now.

Inquitus

Itziger

All good, no?

Inquitus

Weepsie wrote: »

Still images like that are useless. Watching it in slo mo is better, albeit still not perfect.

It does a decent enough job showing how Sagan leapt for Demare's wheel without looking and then elbowed Cav into the barriers, but the video makes it very clear.

Anyways -80 pts and a 35 sec penalty and relegated from today's stage.

Can see Roche and Martin came in on same time. Good news once they were not injured during last couple of kms

dastardly00

Last km. Video is from official TdF YouTube account so won't be blocked due to copyright etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4atl-3Njwg

Moflojo

I don't know much about racing, and even less about sprinting, but it looks like Cavendish has gotten a jump onto Demare's wheel. Sagan says no, that's my wheel and comes straight across Cav's line and bundles him into the barrier when Cav tries to hold the line.

Watch Cav in relation to Demare in the few seconds before the crash, Cav is following his wheel. Then look where Sagan enters the mix.

Sagan completely in the wrong for me.

SeamusAFA

Lot of velo teams taking a hit.

Lionbacker

Looks like Sagan did get a hefty penalty

https://twitter.com/Laura_Meseguer/status/882279770892972033

Inquitus

Apparently Sagan has been turfed out of the tour.