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Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

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    #62
    death1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 3,333 ✭✭✭death1234567


    Great sprint by demare, he had some speed on there.

    As for the crash, as Kelly would say 'thats bike racing'. Cav trying to get through a gap that wasn't there. The elbow came out after cav was already in the process of crashing.


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    #63
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    From looking at a few replays, I think Cav was already in trouble, when Sagan's elbow came out.


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    #64
    ImportMeHappy
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭ImportMeHappy


    Was just thinking the same, he was already going down..

    https://twitter.com/LeTour/status/882256997734899713


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    #65
    death1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 3,333 ✭✭✭death1234567


    The overhead shots are misleading. The head on camera shows what happened better.


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    #66
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,054 ✭✭✭✭neris


    Sagan was asked if he was sorry for what happened and said he was before his handler quickly bundled him off


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    #67
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    Yeah, I think Sagan threw the elbow, when Cav closed in on him.


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    #68
    Eamonnator
    Registered Users Posts: 6,561 ✭✭✭Eamonnator


    Cav was off balance, in the barriers, when Sagan put out his elbow


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    #69
    oflahero
    Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭oflahero


    ITV doing their best to find reasons to exonerate Sagan, but I can't see it. He's sprinting with the head down, following Demare's deviating wheel to the right, and screw anyone who's sticking to their line.

    Ironic, he has similar form with Demare: http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/video-sagan-throws-elbow-into-demare-crashing-moto-nearly-hits-riders/


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    #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The elbow actually put him into the barrier. The space wasn't there but the elbow did the damage in the end.


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    #71
    velo.2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭velo.2010


    Sagan was butting heads with Bouhanni some distance out. His elbow did come out but was it a reaction, the way you see footballers automatically put their hands up when a shot is fired towards their head?

    ASO/commisaires will have a big decision to make now regarding Sagan. If at fault, do they send a message by sending him home or do they keep him in the race for commercial reasons.


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    #72
    longshanks
    Registered Users Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭longshanks


    Looks like Cav was already falling and Sagan put the elbow out for balance. The slow replay looked different to real time.


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    #73
    dahat
    Registered Users Posts: 16,787 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    He was shouting before Sagan threw out the elbow and maybe the elbow came out when Sagan heard Cav being vocal? He was never going to allow him free run through a tight gap.


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    #74
    kenmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    I'm not sure the elbow makes contact with cav, looks like he's further back, maybe gets Sagan's hip to his bars. Sagan's elbow looks to cross in front of cavs bars

    Edit: the overhead shot looks more like Sagan connected right enough


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    #75
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    Lotto sudal manager taking shots.


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    #76
    barrier86
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭barrier86


    Sagan's elbow is what put him down. Cav was off balance but you can its clear as day that sagan pushed him over with the elbow.

    crash looked very nasty indeed.

    hope Cavendish makes a speedy recovery.


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    #77
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    Lotto sudal manager taking shots.

    Greipal not friends with sagan anymore according to the lotto sudal guy.


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    #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ektcIyCKAh8


    Looks fairly damming here imo for Sagan.
    he cuts off Cav's space/line by coming across to his right and then elbow finishes him off.


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    #79
    robyntmorton
    Registered Users Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭robyntmorton


    This is a very difficult call. To me, going frame by frame in that video tweet, it looked like Cav was tight to Sagan and was getting stuck onto his arm. Sagan did try to fend him off, but the elbow appeared to be the killer blow.

    The comms are going to be slated whatever the outcome, really.


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    #80
    death1234567
    Registered Users Posts: 3,333 ✭✭✭death1234567


    robyntmorton wrote: »
    This is a very difficult call. To me, going frame by frame in that video tweet, it looked like Cav was tight to Sagan and was getting stuck onto his arm. Sagan did try to fend him off, but the elbow appeared to be the killer blow.
    It doesn't look like sagans elbow touched cav at all in that replay. The contact is on sagans hip/shoulder


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    #81
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,054 ✭✭✭✭neris


    Cav saying he was elbowed and thats what put him down


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    #82
    Itziger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,016 ✭✭✭Itziger


    robyntmorton wrote: »
    This is a very difficult call. To me, going frame by frame in that video tweet, it looked like Cav was tight to Sagan and was getting stuck onto his arm. Sagan did try to fend him off, but the elbow appeared to be the killer blow.

    The comms are going to be slated whatever the outcome, really.

    Never really like Cav and thought Sagan's win yesterday was just something else but there is NO WAY you can split the blame there. Or if you can it's 95% Sagan's fault. There's no-one edging him over that direction, he drifts a fair way over to where Cavendish was already and when they get too close, out comes the elbow.


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    #83
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,761 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Itziger wrote: »
    Never really like Cav and thought Sagan's win yesterday was just something else but there is NO WAY you can split the blame there. Or if you can it's 95% Sagan's fault. There's no-one edging him over that direction, he drifts a fair way over to where Cavendish was already and when they get too close, out comes the elbow.

    Completely Sagan's fault, bloody dangerous, doubt the Comms have the balls to DSQ him.


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    #84
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,658 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    death1234567 wrote: »
    It doesn't look like sagans elbow touched cav at all in that replay. The contact is on sagans hip/shoulder

    Yeah just going to post that, Sagan definitely moves across but it looks like there is some leg/hip contact that causes Cav's bike to cut in towards Sagan who then throws out the elbow


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    #85
    De Bhál
    Registered Users Posts: 2,918 ✭✭✭De Bhál


    Cav well gone before that elbow popped out, he went down because Sagan followed wheel in front and cut Cav off


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    #86
    Andy Magic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Andy Magic


    Looked like Sagan's fault in all the videos I've seen. He closed the gap on the right to Cav to try stop him coming but Cav still did and got an elbow for it.

    It's a shame for us watching though because now two very entertaining riders could be out of this tour.


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    #87
    Djoucer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 620 ✭✭✭Djoucer


    Important to remember while replaying incident frame by frame, that this happened at close to 70kmph.

    Can't see how anyone can say the incident is clear as day


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    #88
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,761 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    5 hours of live coverage for 5 mins of racing!


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    #89
    kenmc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,276 ✭✭✭kenmc


    neris wrote: »
    Cav saying he was elbowed and thats what put him down

    Cav took a bump to the head though, may not be correct


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    #90
    Thud
    Registered Users Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Thud


    De Bhál wrote: »
    Cav well gone before that elbow popped out, he went down because Sagan followed wheel in front and cut Cav off

    agreed, his bike is gone at this stage, elbow is starting to come out but no way he can get that bike upright in traffic

    421496.JPG


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    #91
    Itziger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,016 ✭✭✭Itziger


    Thud wrote: »
    agreed, his bike is gone at this stage, elbow is starting to come out but no way he can get that bike upright in traffic

    421496.JPG

    The only 'traffic' he has to deal with is Sagan!! And the Slovak came from almost the middle of the road to where he is in that pic. This is as clear a case as you're likely to see in a sprint crash.


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