Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

lissard

Talk about a polarizing event, regardless of who was at fault it's really disappointing to lose two of the most exciting riders in the Tour. I wonder in future years, will we be referring back to this incident as 'Saigan'?

dragratchet

sagan's dq has been upheld.. he wont be starting the race today.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/07/sagan-heading-home-uci-jury-holds-firm-tour-de-france-expulsion/

Spudmonkey

When I saw the crash first I thought it looked like Sagan was at fault.

Seeing it in slow motion, Cav was already on the way down before Sagan's elbow came out. It seems the only reason he did raise the elbow was to maintain balance anyway.

DQ is way too harsh a penalty.

Hunterbiker

The TdF wouldn't be the TdF without incidents like this.
The race jury were put in an impossible position trying to work out what went on. They only have a limited amount of time to make a decision. I wouldn't want their job on days like yesterday

Inquitus

On review this morning I still maintain Sagan was at fault but think the initial sanction of -80 points and relegation from the stage was the correct punishment, and a DQ from the race is harsh. He did also cause the first crash barging through 2 FDJ lads and sending them flying like skittles, definitely not his finest hour, but the race is poorer for his absence and Cav's.

Einstein?

Saw it again this morning lads.... Sagan raised his elbow as any other human being would if you have a brake hood coming in between the inside of your arm and your chest, which Cav caused by trying to squeeze in between no space.

Also, as for the 'line' comments... Cav was two places behind Sagan initially, the Frenchman who was on Sagan's wheel overtook Sagan, and Sagan has every right to follow him... What's he meant to do? Stay behind the slower men in red? It's not like Cav was on Demares wheel as Demare shot off with a lot of speed and Cav failed to stay on his wheel.. Cav is getting old.

Again, these guys are trying to win the race at all costs. Look at Demare here guilty, perhaps even more than Sagan for going off his line, but I don't see this as a case... it's racing. See below.



Huge loss to the tour, Sagan is an iconic figure who has attracted so many to the sport.

pelevin

Top ex-sprinter Baden Cooke on the Sagan dq:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cooke-for-sagan-to-be-kicked-out-in-disgrace-is-not-on/

"It would bet that whoever made this decision has never been involved in a big bunch sprint before. This is a dangerous sport, and we need the people who are calling the shots to understand it.

"You have ten blokes all rushing towards the line, I don't put the blame on anyone in particular, but you could potentially say there are five blokes who have a little bit of blame, including the race winner Demare who swerved hard to the left," he said. "I think it was just a regular sprint and bad luck in how it turned out like it did. I don't think that Sagan deserves to be relegated, let alone kicked out of the race."

"When there is intent to take someone out, like when Bettini took me out years ago at the Giro he started in the middle of the road, looked down and saw me coming on the left and went all the way to the barrier. That is intentional," he said. "That is a completely different story. There is no intent here. Sagan was looking straight ahead and following the wheel of Demare. Cav also wanted Demare's wheel and being fearless, he just keeps going for the gap, but that door was closing. If we start booting sprinters out of the race for stuff like this, there isn't going to be many sprinters left after about five stages. Every single sprinter takes risks and puts other people at some sort of risk at some point."

The way I interpret it is when you put your elbows out you are protecting your handlebars because when someone hits your handlebars, you go straight down on your arse," he said. "Sagan didn't even hit him [Cavendish] and I think he was just balancing himself. If you use your elbows, it is to make sure someone doesn't lock handlebars with you most of the time. He sensed someone coming up inside and maybe that they were going to come through and snag his handlebars, taking him out. It's self-perseveration. I actually think Cav fell off due to bouncing off Sagan's butt, not his elbow."

check_six

In the slightly longer clip it looked, to my eye, that Sagan had pushed Cavendish earlier in the sequence. He pushes Cav with his elbow/hip as he moves right, then Cav starts to gets stuck under his arm as Cav starts to fall. The Sagan elbow pops out as he tries to balance himself, but Cav is already heading for the floor. Most of the clips on here have the shorter version which doesn't cover the full contact in the incident.

Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but I thought there was earlier contact than the shorter clips suggest. Did anyone else see this?

rtmie

Sagan accepts DQ  but denies wrongdoing.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peter-sagan-accepts-tour-de-france-disqualification-but-denies-wrongdoing/

rtmie

Sagan accepts DQ  but denies wrongdoing.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peter-sagan-accepts-tour-de-france-disqualification-but-denies-wrongdoing/

On first viewing it looks terrible for Sagan. The more I look at it the more it looks like Cav had chosen a risky line.

Either way I think Sagan should have been allowed stay ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Somedude9

The French commissaries screwed Sagan over. Where's the punishment for Demare for an arguably more dangerous manoeuvre? I guarantee the earlier crash involving Sagan and the two FDJ riders played its part in their - wrong - decision.

check_six

ronoc wrote: »

On first viewing it looks terrible for Sagan. The more I look at it the more it looks like Cav had chosen a risky line.

Either way I think Sagan should have been allowed stay ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think most people would like to have both riders still in the race. It'd be interesting to see the detailed reasoning for the decision of the race jury so we could get a clearer idea what pushed the punishment from a relegation to a disqualification.

robyntmorton

LeMond on Eurosport just before live racing today: By rights, for Sagan to be disqualified for that, you should be disqualifying every sprinter there.

DanDublin1982

check_six wrote: »

In the slightly longer clip it looked, to my eye, that Sagan had pushed Cavendish earlier in the sequence. He pushes Cav with his elbow/hip as he moves right, then Cav starts to gets stuck under his arm as Cav starts to fall. The Sagan elbow pops out as he tries to balance himself, but Cav is already heading for the floor. Most of the clips on here have the shorter version which doesn't cover the full contact in the incident.

Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there, but I thought there was earlier contact than the shorter clips suggest. Did anyone else see this?

Yep, there's the clip earlier in the thread from the official tour twitter that shows exactly this imo.

DQ far too harsh though.

check_six

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

Yep, there's the clip earlier in the thread from the official tour twitter that shows exactly this imo.

DQ far too harsh though.

There was me looking at the extended discussion of the short clip thinking I'd gone insane... again!

Icepick

Peter Sagan was disqualified according to article 12.1.040/ 10.2.2. (irregular sprint)

Why are Demare and like half the field still in the race if that warrants dq?

oflahero

"Been in an accident that wasn't your fault?" trills continuously on the ad break on ITV4.

mathie

Fabio