Playstation Clan clean up/migrations/management

Generic Dreadhead

jcd5971

But that's a big part of it generic there was no platform and discussion was not even considered.

I left communities I put my hand up. I don't see myself going back either it just isnt something I will use without notifications.

You see that as odd. That's fair enough.

But this was a discussion that had to happen, get e erything out in open discuss it decide and then move on.

If people like me are left out that's unfortunate but understandable, things move on and grow, sometimes you just have to move on.

As I said I bear no Ill will (pun) go arcs anyone over this and hope ye all feel the same.

Riesen_Meal

jcd5971 wrote: »

If people like me are left out that's unfortunate but understandable, things move on and grow, sometimes you just have to move on.

As I said I bear no Ill will (pun) go arcs anyone over this and hope ye all feel the same.

If any of you have left and change your mind over the community thing it's not a problem reaccepting you onto the page, just apply and we will re add you no problem, of course we have no ill will towards any of you...

jcd5971

Fieldog wrote:

If any of you have left and change your mind over the community thing it's not a problem reaccepting you onto the page, just apply and we will re add you no problem, of course we have no ill will towards any of you...

Appreciate the gesture.

I'm kind of sorry it took a bumpy ride.

But at least it was all aired out and everyone got to say their piece

Conar

Right... Screw it I'll dip my toe in.

One of my problems with the clan is often that I'm dying to get a game in but I see a load of parties formed yet they weren't initiated on the chats.
The very next day I do the same thing cos I really want to complete the raid in 2 hours rather than Sherpa every time.
It's inevitable but we should all try to be a little more inclusive as often as we can.
We hit a good run of it around TTK and there was often a good mix of groupings and people were very willing to help each other out.
It's human nature to be clicky but we should all try to avoid the instinct and be more inclusive.
I've tried to use the communities app a little but it just doesn't have the instant reach I want when I'm playing Destiny.

I felt a little put out by the forced closure of the chat and I don't think the Communities App is ready for such large scale use.
I get that Admins are trying to act in the best interest of the group but such sweeping changes are probably worthy of a group discussion.

We are in a board.ie clan. It's a discussion board with an option of voting.
Should we ever kick non boardsies out? ABSOLUTELY NOT
Should we say that any major decisions will be made on Boards? Yeah I think that's fair. Everyone gets to have an opinion and if they're not a member but feel they want to vote on an item or make their opinion heard then just sign up for a Boards account.

Leave the Admins to doing admin, leave the decisions to democracy.

The situation as it stands is not working (IMO) but we can't go back to messages, at least that seems to be the general concensus.

Should we just have a vote with something like the following?

1. Do you like Communities (yes/no)
2. Will you use Communities (yes/no)
3. Would you sign up for and use an app that doesn't work directly on the PS4... Probably Discord? (yes/no)

jcd5971

Conar wrote:

I felt a little put out by the forced closure of the chat and I don't think the Communities App is ready for such large scale use. I get that Admins are trying to act in the best interest of the group but such sweeping changes are probably worthy of a group discussion.

This sums up my whole argument but just more eloquently.

Also I read it and thought jaysus conovar has just pulled a complete 180 here.

The I realised you are two different people, and life went back to normal. Also this happens to me on a regular basis.

Conar

jcd5971 wrote: »

This sums up my whole argument but just more eloquently.

Also I read it and thought jaysus conovar has just pulled a complete 180 here.

The I realised you are two different people, and life went back to normal. Also this happens to me on a regular basis.

No worries, sure I waved at a JCB yesterday. Imagine how I felt when I realised it wasn't you

Mitch Connor

Conar wrote: »

Right... Screw it I'll dip my toe in.

One of my problems with the clan is often that I'm dying to get a game in but I see a load of parties formed yet they weren't initiated on the chats.
The very next day I do the same thing cos I really want to complete the raid in 2 hours rather than Sherpa every time.
It's inevitable but we should all try to be a little more inclusive as often as we can.
We hit a good run of it around TTK and there was often a good mix of groupings and people were very willing to help each other out.
It's human nature to be clicky but we should all try to avoid the instinct and be more inclusive.
I've tried to use the communities app a little but it just doesn't have the instant reach I want when I'm playing Destiny.

I personally think a lot of this is down to the game and content being new. People are only starting to learn it themselves and want to do that in the groups they are most used to. Maybe that is just wrong, but it is how I see things right now.

I think when the raid is more well known and people are more comfortable with it all then we will see stuff pop up and group up more often.

I honestly think it being a new game, but an older community (in terms of the time the community has been around) is a lot of what the issues are here are coming from. I know that when it comes to brand new content I am very likely to be playing it with certain people the first time around. Just looking at my raid completion and story completion groups from D1 in the D2 intro shows that. Though obviously my experience could be unique to me.

SolvableKnave

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I personally think a lot of this is down to the game and content being new. People are only starting to learn it themselves and want to do that in the groups they are most used to. Maybe that is just wrong, but it is how I see things right now.

I think when the raid is more well known and people are more comfortable with it all then we will see stuff pop up and group up more often.

I honestly think it being a new game, but an older community (in terms of the time the community has been around) is a lot of what the issues are here are coming from. I know that when it comes to brand new content I am very likely to be playing it with certain people the first time around. Just looking at my raid completion and story completion groups from D1 in the D2 intro shows that. Though obviously my experience could be unique to me.

I think there are 2 groups of 6 that fall under that description, and I personally, don't have an issue with it. It's the same heads who are ABLE to run the raid blind fresh soon as released. I get that. I'm not able to do that. Usually, by the time I get on and am hoping to get a group together, most people would have grouped up by that time. Again, I don't have an issue with that.

Of the 5 raids that are in the Destiny Universe, I generally only get to run them week 2 of release. It'll never stop me trying to get a group together though. I'm optimistic like that.

Generic Dreadhead

Conar wrote: »

Leave the Admins to doing admin, leave the decisions to democracy.

So 190 people need to have input in a matter.
Say an annoymous A and B choice: "Move to Communities OR Continue to to use Chat?"

You get a 66% majority saying Option A, do you tell the 34% to deal with it?
You get 75% majority for Option B, what 100 people get into the chat?
Or even if All 190 of them say "Use Chat plz"... what do we do with that information that has tangible results?

So then you make a change and 15 people kick up holy war, and the rest don't, what do you do?
Does the squeaky wheel get the grease? Do you reverse your decision? Do you explain your line of reasoning?

Now, lets say you ask 190 people for feedback, and 30 people actually give feedback. You make a change based on that and months later 60 people are not happy at that overall. Do you say "tough, you had your chance to give feedback, you didn't" and then sift through 60 explanations about how they were on holidays for 6 weeks and had no internet.

Now, you use Chat and one person basically goes full racist and calls someone a name. You can't kick that person out.
Do you burn the chat down for the sake of the 99 others and start a fresh one, meticulously comparing 2 lists for discrepancies?
Do you ask them to leave? What if they don't?

All of this isn't a go at you Conar, and I hope you realise that.
Those are just some food for thought examples, many of them based off my own actual experiences, from this side of the fence.

190 members 100% satisfied would be perfection. We'll never have a perfect system.
But we are always trying to do what's fairest and overall the most adequate solution for all members

SeanHarty

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

So 190 people need to have input in a matter.
Say an annoymous A and B choice: "Move to Communities OR Continue to to use Chat?"

You get a 66% majority saying Option A, do you tell the 34% to deal with it?
You get 75% majority for Option B, what 100 people get into the chat?
Or even if All 190 of them say "Use Chat plz"... what do we do with that information that has tangible results?

So then you make a change and 15 people kick up holy war, and the rest don't, what do you do?
Does the squeaky wheel get the grease? Do you reverse your decision? Do you explain your line of reasoning?

Now, lets say you ask 190 people for feedback, and 30 people actually give feedback. You make a change based on that and months later 60 people are not happy at that overall. Do you say "tough, you had your chance to give feedback, you didn't" and then sift through 60 explanations about how they were on holidays for 6 weeks and had no internet.

Now, you use Chat and one person basically goes full racist and calls someone a name. You can't kick that person out.
Do you burn the chat down for the sake of the 99 others and start a fresh one, meticulously comparing 2 lists for discrepancies?
Do you ask them to leave? What if they don't?

All of this isn't a go at you Conar, and I hope you realise that.
Those are just some food for thought examples, many of them based off my own actual experiences, from this side of the fence.

190 members 100% satisfied would be perfection. We'll never have a perfect system.
But we are always trying to do what's fairest and overall the most adequate solution for all members

I say we form a big party and all shout at each other.

Mitch Connor

SeanHarty wrote: »

I say we form a big party and all shout at each other.

Can only have 8 in a party. Which 8 do we pick? We could use communities but people wouldn't be notified of the shouting. We could use discord voice coms but then people have to download a non native app.

SolvableKnave

SeanHarty wrote: »

I say we form a big party and all shout at each other.

Conar

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

All of this isn't a go at you Conar, and I hope you realise that.

Absolutely no offence taken so no worries there.

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

So 190 people need to have input in a matter.
Say an annoymous A and B choice" "Move to Communities OR Use Continue to use Chat?"

You get a 66% majority saying Option A, do you tell the 34% to deal with it?

You get 75% majority for Option B, what 100 people get into the chat?

We'll I guess that's a larger pool of people so I would think people would be more inclined to accept the decision rather than it being decided by a few.
I don't doubt the intentions of the few that made the decision I just think that we could try to make them as a group.
If anything it would absolve you guys of responsibility for people like me moaning after the fact.

I accept the fact the chat is no longer fit for purpose so I'm happy (though sad) to see the back of it.

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

So you ask 190 people for feedback on something, 190 of them say "Use Chat plz"... what do we do with that information that has tangible results?

So then you make a change and 15 people kick up holy war, and the rest don't, what do you do? Does the squeaky wheel get the grease? Do you reverse your decision, do you explain your line of reasoning?

I think Admins can gauge the mood of the group and if there's enough of a push on something throw up a vote.
A vote simply means things go one way or another. No stupid comments to filter through so easy to get results.

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Now, lets say you ask 190 people for feedback, and 30 people actually give feedback. You make a change based on that and months later 60 people are not happy at that overall?

We'll I guess the old mantra 'if you don't vote you can't complain' would be the case here.

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Those are just some food for thought examples, many of them based off my own actual experiences, from this side of the fence.

190 members 100% satisfied would be perfection. We'll never have a perfect system

They're fair examples too and there's no way we'll ever please everyone but if we move to a system that's flawed that we don't know will be fixed we're taking a bit of a punt.
I hate the playstation apps but I do always have my phone beside me so I'd definitely be willing to try an app that's seperate to the ps4 architecture. Whatsapp is perfect but from a privacy perspective it's understandable that people don't want they're number given out.
Maybe something like discord would work wonders.
I mean, we all had Ishtar Commander or a similar app on the go on a laptop/table/phone so why not a messaging service.

Generic Dreadhead

Look, in all honesty, that's pretty fair and valid feedback.

And I, and I'm sure the other lads, will take that on board and try and garner more feedback for major stuff (if it occurs) in future before we make any changes.

We tried to make these changes kind of gradually over the last 4 weeks (some of your probably noticed that), and I do think a lot of the messaging on "why" was probably lost on people for a variety of reasons

In hindsight, I should have done a big write up here on Boards about what was happening, why, how, where and with relevant links and spread that word via here, PSN and Bungie.net (fun fun fun).... that would probably have helped soften the blow but there would have been a blow none the less.

Perhaps with the state of the game a bit different now (end game etc), and the weekend coming up, and the Bungie Clan 1 Chat being gone, perhaps we can swallow our emotions and just try and give Communities a shot for even an activity each.

It's not laid out beautifully I concede, but maybe some of you so vehemently against it can actually give it a shot and see while it's no LFG site, it does have some functionality thats fit for purpose.
Maybe not, I'm just advocating giving it a shot, I've used it myself for the NF and a few nights for some PvP bouts. It's not Windows Vista like tbf

Stone Deaf 4evr

not being funny, but ye're never going to come to a consensus if ye try to accommodate everyone. Someones going to have to take a stand and decide whats the way forward - it should naturally fall to the current Admins, cause that's their role anyway - and i daresay they're admins because they're already active in the group.

then pick a method of communication, and let it be the way the thing works. If that means of communication doesn't suit you, then jog on and find a group more suitable to your tastes. If people have a genuine interest in something they'll make the effort / sacrifice to get involved.

Mitch Connor

Conar wrote: »

Whatsapp is perfect but from a privacy perspective it's understandable that people don't want they're number given out.
Maybe something like discord would work wonders.
I mean, we all had Ishtar Commander or a similar app on the go on a laptop/table/phone so why not a messaging service.

I actually set up a discord for us all a while back, when this communties for D2 was being discussed (amongst admin) - and championed its use as our 'messages' successor - and it was felt that trying to get people to download a new app to their phone would be worse than trying to get them to migrate to Communities.

That said - the only think it would really have over just using boards.ie is notifications.

We can set up rooms (threads) in discord for particular activities - we can do the same here.
We can chat and have a laugh - can do that here.
If you don't have discord you'd need to get it - if you don't have a boards.ie account you'd have to sign up.
Your username could/would be different to your PSN name (not the case in communities/messages/clan chat).
You can't send game invites in discord or boards.ie - you can in communities, messages or clan chat.

I really like the look of discord - but it not being plugged into the PS4 architecture (same as any app) holds it back. As I say, it doesn't offer much over notifications in comparison to just using threads on here.

Mitch Connor

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

It's not laid out beautifully I concede, but maybe some of you so vehemently against it can actually give it a shot and see while it's no LFG site, it does have some functionality thats fit for purpose.
Maybe not, I'm just advocating giving it a shot, I've used it myself for the NF and a few nights for some PvP bouts. It's not Windows Vista like tbf

You know I was vocal in my opposition to communities - but the one feature I think more people should make use of is the Event function. I find that works well for getting people in for ad hoc stuff.

Totz, for example, was trying to get people for a raid run in D1 - and until I set up an Event to just try get people in a party and geared up for it - the chat in communities wasn't getting it done. I think the use of the Event feature is absolutely key to communities being of any use.

I THINK you do get a notification of Events being created too.

Generic Dreadhead

Like.... what I don't really understand is that (and maybe I'm reading into previous feedback from JCD, Dude and Totz on this too much) was that the biggest issue (and seemingly dealbreaker for a minor few) was not getting PSN Notifications for when someone makes a new post on Communities.

Can someone set me straight here cause I'm all for discussing the alternatives?
But they don't seem to be actual solutions to the specific problem people have mentioned

And when I say that, I mean tangible feedback, not like "there's not as much craic there".
I'm not trying to come across as a jerk here but What is the actual problem?

We've had pages of whataboutary and now we're looking at alternative "solutions" that don't solve the problem at hand?

SolvableKnave

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Like.... what I don't really understand is that (and maybe I'm reading into previous feedback from JCD, Dude and Totz on this too much) was that the biggest issue (and seemingly dealbreaker for a minor few) was not getting PSN Notifications for when someone makes a new post on Communities.

Can someone set me straight here cause I'm all for discussing the alternatives?
But they don't seem to be actual solutions to the specific problem people have mentioned

And when I say that, I mean tangible feedback, not like "there's not as much craic there".
I'm not trying to come across as a jerk here but What is the actual problem?

We've had pages of whataboutary and now we're looking at alternative "solutions" that don't solve the problem at hand?

Yeah, it's the lack of notifications on every new post is what I've gotten from everything. Now, whether that's a requirement on the PS4 or on the app, i don't know.

I'd say keep with communities, up to 2/3 weeks after OS5 is released and see how it goes. If the notification issue is resolved, then everyone can be happy. If not, then maybe it can be revisited?

Generic Dreadhead

Mitch Connor wrote: »

but the one feature I think more people should make use of is the Event function. I find that works well for getting people in for ad hoc stuff.

the chat in communities wasn't getting it done. I think the use of the Event feature is absolutely key to communities being of any use.

Yeah, I was kind of hoping that Events can kind of replace the need for creating mini-chats for stuff like Raids etc (1st weeks blind run aside)

I might start turning some of my current "posts" into events and see what kind of traction that gets

Then again, I'm probably playing a hell of a lot more pvp than most the last week, I'd say a few more will be dipping the toe in now :P
Then again, the style of play in the crucible, overall D2 changes and move to 4v4 has probably turned a good chunck of people off it.
Kind of off topic but the times when you do have a close, sweaty game and use tactics and teamshotting and scrape by with a win have been hella satisfying :P

Mitch Connor

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Like.... what I don't really understand is that (and maybe I'm reading into previous feedback from JCD, Dude and Totz on this too much) was that the biggest issue (and seemingly dealbreaker for a minor few) was not getting PSN Notifications for when someone makes a new post on Communities.

Can someone set me straight here cause I'm all for discussing the alternatives?
But they don't seem to be actual solutions to the specific problem people have mentioned

And when I say that, I mean tangible feedback, not like "there's not as much craic there".
I'm not trying to come across as a jerk here but What is the actual problem?

We've had pages of whataboutary and now we're looking at alternative "solutions" that don't solve the problem at hand?

I think it is not having notifications in game or on mobile - at least if they pinged on mobile you would know something is happening in game.

You see a notifcation you may actively check it. You don't get any notification you may miss something, 20 minutes pass and people have moved on. You know people aren't going to get a notification - you need to run something quick cause you are short on time - you go to LFG or messages?

I know that I would personally use the phone more than the console app, cause typing is a lot easier on the phone.

riggerman

Being reading this since 10 this morning and I have only 1 item to add. We are all a community on here and friends for the last 3 years. I'm personally looking forward to making new friends from all the new people who have joined.

It's a pity PS messages are limited to 100 max, but that's a problem the lads (admins) have tried to sort with the community app . Until Sony get the finger out and increase the max on messenger, we will have to plug away with what we have.

Everyone here has always been helpful with raiding, PvP and quests and going forward I don't see that changing. To the new lads out there send friend requests and don't be shy. We are a like a big family , we have our fights and squabbling moments but we are always up for giving a hand to each other.

MADMADRA32

Kimbot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think it is not having notifications in game or on mobile - at least if they pinged on mobile you would know something is happening in game.

You see a notifcation you may actively check it. You don't get any notification you may miss something, 20 minutes pass and people have moved on. You know people aren't going to get a notification - you need to run something quick cause you are short on time - you go to LFG or messages?

I know that I would personally use the phone more than the console app, cause typing is a lot easier on the phone.

Sure it's Grand, there's no issue with notifications on iPhones so anyone that hasn't got an iPhone should just go out and buy an iPhone and shut up complaining about their lack of notifications like.

SolvableKnave

jonnycivic wrote: »

Sure it's Grand, there's no issue with notifications on iPhones so anyone that hasn't got an iPhone should just go out and buy an iPhone and shut up complaining about their lack of notifications like.

I'm on Android, and I get notifications to reply's. Nothing on new posts. I have the phone beside me when I'm playing, so I check the communities every 15 mins or so. It's not ideal, but it's not game breaking or community breaking. It's an extra step to actively refresh the feed on your phone.

Mitch Connor

jonnycivic wrote: »

Sure it's Grand, there's no issue with notifications on iPhones so anyone that hasn't got an iPhone should just go out and buy an iPhone and shut up complaining about their lack of notifications like.

Do you get them for every post?

I only get notifications for replies to my own messages on either phone (android) or PS4.

sniper_samurai

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do you get them for every post?

I only get notifications for replies to my own messages on either phone (android) or PS4.

I don't, stupid fking app keeps signing me out if inactive for 30mins.

Kimbot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do you get them for every post?

I only get notifications for replies to my own messages on either phone (android) or PS4.

I'm on android and have never gotten notifications not even when it's a reply. And yes everything is setup correctly.

Mitch Connor

jonnycivic wrote: »

I'm on android and have never gotten notifications not even when it's a reply. And yes everything is setup correctly.

Such a poorly designed app - how does it get out the door in that state?

I think that we just need to build a wall, and make the non boardsies pay for it.

Make BOIE Great Again!

Riesen_Meal

jonnycivic wrote: »

I'm on android and have never gotten notifications not even when it's a reply. And yes everything is setup correctly.

And have you notifications on on the 3 Sony apps Jonny? Messages, community, normal PS4 app?

sniper_samurai

Fieldog wrote: »

And have you notifications on on the 3 Sony apps Jonny? Messages, community, normal PS4 app?

Get notifications for messages instantly through the message app, same with friend requests and invites through the PS app.

Kimbot

Fieldog wrote: »

And have you notifications on on the 3 Sony apps Jonny? Messages, community, normal PS4 app?

Yeah everything else works fine, messages/events etc. The only time I have ever gotten a notification was a reply on the Friday 13th community but I only had reply notifications set for that one so can't say if the new post notification worked or not.

goon_magee

Going to keep it short, it's late and enough has been said already, but feel like everyone paying attention should give their opinion.

Polls on here for big clan decisions going forward should be the norm I think. I understand the sentiment that not everyone gets a chance to vote if not available etc. But to be blunt...screw them... It's how we make decisions on a nationwide level, so let's not be precious and assume the same can't apply to a video game clan... You don't vote or you vote the losing side, like it or lump it. At least taking a democratic approach you give everyone a chance to voice opinions from the start rather than a select few springing sudden decisions without considering others. At the minute it seems the only people championing communities are those that were involved in the decision at the start. Granted opinions are being sought now, but that's how it should have been from the start.

On a more gameplay related note, calendar events is a great idea. Something like random raid nights could work great in a few weeks when a good few have the mechanics down. Everyone who has availability throws there name into a hat then someone (possibly one of our streamers who could draw on stream to keep it legit) draws a few random teams of 6 who all group up and raid on say a Saturday night or whenever suits the team.

Throwing calendar events will also be a good way of measuring activity and assessing is there really a need to abandon the old messaging system. Social events will make the inactive players even more obvious.

Rossi IRL

Could we leave communities as is for the whole clan and hope they make it better. (Only notifications on replies is stupid)

And make a chat as well for people who are actually on boards.

Best of both worlds.

goon_magee

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Could we leave communities as is for the whole clan and hope they make it better. (Only notifications on replies is stupid)

And make a chat as well for people who are actually on boards.

Best of both worlds.

Not a bad shout Rossi. JCD suggested having both as well. there could be some sort of ground rule that all activities need to get posted first on communities, have a 10 or 15 min window for people to check and reply via communities, then turn to chat if you dont get any/enough takers via your original community post. Could be the best of both worlds, balancing the "inclusive" nature of the community page, but also having the fallback of the messages page for active members where you're post is guaranteed to be seen if needs be via working notifications.

My name is URL

Conar wrote: »

One of my problems with the clan is often that I'm dying to get a game in but I see a load of parties formed yet they weren't initiated on the chats.
The very next day I do the same thing cos I really want to complete the raid in 2 hours rather than Sherpa every time.
It's inevitable but we should all try to be a little more inclusive as often as we can.

This is actually something that I've noticed improve because of communities.

I still have a strong dislike of it fwiw, It's essentially not functional for me. I don't get notifications and have to check it manually and that's a pain in the hole.

But there is a better mix of people on fireteams now. Usually one or two people playing with a couple of 'regulars' now.

I've raided with two sets of people now and there has been at least one person I'd not played with before in each one of those teams, at least for the earlier stages. Of course that's just my own observation and YMMV.

But 1 -2 'new' peeps raiding in the first week with older players is a step up from how things were imo. I'm glad to see that.

Now, holding on to players to raid with for consecutive nights is a different story :pac:

OptimusTractor

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Could we leave communities as is for the whole clan and hope they make it better. (Only notifications on replies is stupid)

And make a chat as well for people who are actually on boards.

Best of both worlds.

A message chat for max 30 people? Bit exclusive that. Won't be happening.

Generic Dreadhead

goon_magee wrote: »

Polls on here for big clan decisions going forward should be the norm I think.

Yup, will take this on board for big changes in future.

At the minute it seems the only people championing communities are those that were involved in the decision at the start. Granted opinions are being sought now, but that's how it should have been from the start.

And the flip side of that there's only been about 6 very vocal detractors here railing against Communities. 6 who actually haven't posted in Communities, either out of protest or because they were using the Clan 1 Bungie Chat. The vocal majority here have not been cross-posting in Communities. They stayed in their silo, completely ignoring half the player base, not interacting with any of the 40 newbies who joined Clan 2.

Something like random raid nights could work great in a few weeks when a good few have the mechanics down. Everyone who has availability throws there name into a hat then someone (possibly one of our streamers who could draw on stream to keep it legit) draws a few random teams of 6 who all group up and raid on say a Saturday night or whenever suits the team.

Definitely something we can organise, but more than likely it will be a week or two at best down the line.

Throwing calendar events will also be a good way of measuring activity and assessing is there really a need to abandon the old messaging system. Social events will make the inactive players even more obvious.

Monitoring Clan/Community activity is not something we can do over days or weeks, we need months worth of Data, but it is something we'll look at. We'll keep an eye out for people who are basically just in the clan, collecting their engrams, but not utilising Communities to play with new or old clanmates etc.

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Could we leave communities as is for the whole clan and hope they make it better. (Only notifications on replies is stupid)
And make a chat as well for people who are actually on boards.
Best of both worlds.

We tried something similar to this before.
We had 100+ people, so 100 of the most 'old school" players ended up in the Main chat.
The 30 newbies ended up in chat 2 with 40 of the most active/hardcore players.
The result, the 2nd Chat was dead, the 40 most active players continued grouping up with the existing 60 players in the other chat.
All in all, it was a terrible split and exactly why we went with Communities.
When given 2 options, most will chose the path of least resistance.
What you're proposing there would basically be throwing 50 people into an elitism chat and actually in a round about way, it will make Communities even more dead
See my above point to Goon. We had 2 systems, people chose the 'path of least resistance'

General Non-Rossi directed points below:

It's been 9 pages now of this whataboutery and tbh, I still haven't heard a single, tangible bit of feedback on Communities other than "I don't get Notifications for new posts".
If that is truly the stickler some players want to plant their flag in the sand over we can't change that.
Remember that is a PSN Bug/Error that is now resulting in people giving us, personally, negative feedback. Why not send your feedback to Playstation?
If the people with the biggest issues with Communities don't want to post on it out of protest, or in an effort to 'hamstring' it's activity to prove their 'point' well thats a decision I, nor anyone else, has any control over and no words will probably change.

There was ~80 posts on the Community page yesterday (midnight to midnight).
So many players are giving it an shot, finding groups and mingling about.
As Totz pointed out above the cross-pollination is good so far.
With Wonda-Boy (fair play to him) having a really positive come-one-come-all approach and organising a raid open to anyone there and basically 5 newbies (+ Beard) actually organising a raid too.
It's not a pretty UI or App but people are using it, and they are doing so in a way which aligns with the type of values we've always tried to embody as a Clan.

Some parties are having a hard time adapting to the change to Communities, but you cannot expect the solution for you to be that 180 others set up accounts for various other sites or apps, and use those instead, despite them having no PSN tie-in.

So while we're all still open to feedback maybe focus on proposed solutions that fill the below requirements:
1) Allows all member for all clans to interact with each other in 1 place
2) Is tied into PSN so allows people to not have a Computer nearby and get (some, not all) notifications on their PS4

Again, seems like a PSN Bug/Issue has basically caused a silly amount of negative feelings here over the last 36 hours.
Tbh, I'm pushing on 32yo now, I'm going to try enjoy the video game, play with some new people (1st time playing with Jimbob last night for example :pac:), some old people and just refresh the Communties App on my mobile to see all posts.
Which while not ideal, is something that lets me interact with all 190 people in one place.

Conar

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Yup, will take this on board for big changes in future.



And the flip side of that there's only been about 6 very vocal detractors here railing against Communities. 6 who actually haven't posted in Communities, either out of protest or because they were using the Clan 1 Bungie Chat. The vocal majority here have not been cross-posting in Communities. They stayed in their silo, completely ignoring half the player base, not interacting with any of the 40 newbies who joined Clan 2.

I'm away this weekend but there seems to be a marked increase in traffic on it which is great.

I think we all need to just remember that everyone here wants the same thing and a little squabble about how to get there is a healthy thing.
I'm going to try and use it a bit more and sure as hell won't be cutting off my nose to spite my face.

jcd5971

Look there was no conversation about this at all.

That was an issue. Which going forward has been fixed which is a great result for everyone.

My only gripe is the way myself civic and whoever the other 4 of this group of 6 dissenters generic referred to, are being painted as a group of malcontents out to cause trouble.

The only person to say they are flat out not using communities without notifications is myself, and even at that I'm still posting on boards, and I even said on here I'm not demanding any changes be made, I'm prepared to have my opinions challenged.

Could have done without being labeled as attacking admins, or not appreciating previous efforts made etc. Wasn't nice at all.

And I think everyone needs to take a step back, it has to be said johnny came on a bit strong , but they way he was treated was flat out disgraceful.


nobody is throwing their toys out of the pram threatening to leave the clan or cause trouble at all.

Hopefully communities gets its **** together and we move on.

I for clarity sake though would like to say again, this was not a personal stand against anyone.


But if they did feel belittled or unappreciated, that was not my intention.

My name is URL

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

And the flip side of that there's only been about 6 very vocal detractors here railing against Communities. 6 who actually haven't posted in Communities, either out of protest or because they were using the Clan 1 Bungie Chat. The vocal majority here have not been cross-posting in Communities. They stayed in their silo, completely ignoring half the player base, not interacting with any of the 40 newbies who joined Clan 2.

I've been posting in the community. Tried for the last 2 nights to organise a raid.

After giving up on trying to get a fresh run going, I posted last night that I was looking for a spot in one that was already underway.

Noticed your team was raiding and at some point yous invited a guy that hasn't been active or played with the clan in over a year in to replace someone.

It's easy to extol the virtues of community when you have a consistent, externally pre-formed group to play with, and can pick and choose who to invite in as 'subs' regardless of whether they are using the app to look for spots.

Tazzimus

I've been reading this and not really saying anything as I'm new enough to the clan so didn't really know the history etc.

I do have to chip in on the above from Totz though, and this is not an attack on you Generic, just want to make that clear.
For someone who is championing the community app for organising everything, you stick to your own "silo'd" group to raid with etc.

Community app is fairly poo I'll admit, but thankfully people are trying to use it, maybe it'll get better as the game settles a bit.

I tend to use boards to look for raids, usually have. I'll try use communities for other activities though.

Mitch Connor

Tazzimus wrote: »

I've been reading this and not really saying anything as I'm new enough to the clan so didn't really know the history etc.

I do have to chip in on the above from Totz though, and this is not an attack on you Generic, just want to make that clear.
For someone who is championing the community app for organising everything, you stick to your own "silo'd" group to raid with etc.

Community app is fairly poo I'll admit, but thankfully people are trying to use it, maybe it'll get better as the game settles a bit.

I tend to use boards to look for raids, usually have. I'll try use communities for other activities though.

Personally (and it may be bias as I'm in said group) I've no issue with people sorting out groups outside of the app. Just the same happened when we used messages. It isn't a case of communities or nothing. It's a case of if people are short and are looking for someone to jump in, use communities (imo). If you want to run some strikes or a nf or pvp or something and have spots then fire ahead and use communities to offer up.

If you have a group of friends who you want to prioritize first I don't see any issue there, for anyone.

SeanHarty

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Personally (and it may be bias as I'm in said group) I've no issue with people sorting out groups outside of the app. Just the same happened when we used messages. It isn't a case of communities or nothing. It's a case of if people are short and are looking for someone to jump in, use communities (imo). If you want to run some strikes or a nf or pvp or something and have spots then fire ahead and use communities to offer up.

If you have a group of friends who you want to prioritize first I don't see any issue there, for anyone.

I don't think people really give a ****e when people do what you guys do and team up.

its when people are doing that but at the same time coming on here and going on about why communities is great and that it should be used to organise raids/strikes/ etc.

practice what you preach.

Mitch Connor

SeanHarty wrote: »

I don't think people really give a ****e when people do what you guys do and team up.

its when people are doing that but at the same time coming on here and going on about why communities is great and that it should be used to organise raids/strikes/ etc.

practice what you preach.

But that isn't what we are saying.

We are saying use communities over messages or clan chat if you are looking for extras for something.

Why would we be demanding people, anyone, organise everything within communities and open their fireteam to anyone and everyone for everything?

I use communities for nightfall, strikes and pvp. I joined a raid at the weekend when they were looking for numbers.

I will likely look to use it more for raiding when I have completed it even once.

We've oy said communities over messages or clan chat because the later two 100% exclude people on the community, when you are offering a free space for something up. If you want to specifically invite someone, or use threads here great, you do you. The admin of the clan simply don't want to create or moderate exclusionary chat functions.

In D1 stuff was organized outside of messages (the chosen clan communication tool) all the time. Why are people expecting it be so different now?

Generic Dreadhead

I hate having to deal with this petty stuff every single Raid launch, but sure, here we go again...

My name is URL wrote: »

I've been posting in the community. Tried for the last 2 nights to organise a raid.

After giving up on trying to get a fresh run going, I posted last night that I was looking for a spot in one that was already underway.

Noticed your team was raiding and at some point yous invited a guy that hasn't been active or played with the clan in over a year in to replace someone.

You can only really be referring to one of 2 people here.

TerryChev left, he'd been raiding with us (blind) for 5 separate evenings since Wednesday 13th September.
http://destinytracker.com/d2/profile/psn/GenericDreadhead
Feel free to look over my Raid game history for the last 7 days and see that is the case.
He's been on my "Blind" Raid teams in the past.

We were on the Boss, we wanted to kill him, so we wanted someone with experience.
The only person online, not in an activity with other clan members or friends, who had Raid experience was Hochspitch - he had killed the Raid boss (as evidenced by his emblem)
He is ALSO someone who has been in my "Blind" raid teams too (him and Terry both featuring in KF or WotM at launch)
Feel free to go have a look at my D1 Raid 1st Attempts via DestinyTracker if thats what you want.

We weren't interested in talking/explaining through it as we'd been on it two nights, and we had the strategy clear, just needed to execute on it.
As with any Raid, I want to actually complete it myself before I branch out.
If there was a whole bunch of people online that I missed who could come in (at 23:10pm btw) and join at the final boss and jump right in basically just being told:
"Ad's on the right 1st, You're team teleport, grab the left spark, we're taking Dogs plate 1st"
... and do the business, I'd apologise. There wasn't.

It's easy to extol the virtues of community when you have a consistent, externally pre-formed group to play with, and can pick and choose who to invite in as 'subs' regardless of whether they are using the app to look for spots.

I've been Raiding with a combination of my real-life friends and people who I have done blind raids with at launch before.
And that group has been fairly static the last 7 days.
When I haven't been trying to finish the Raid myself, I've either been in PvP.
And when I wasn't, I sherpa'd 3 lads (McMafia, Madra and Werehampster) through the Baths by posting in the Community page.
Conovar, Nev, NoCal, Wes, Madra, Mafia and Linksenn can attest to this being the case (if you don't feel like reviewing my game history) fwiw.

You seem to have been focused on watching what my group was doing.
Perhaps you could have just asked me if there was a spot going?
To which I would have replied "Yeah, we're on the boss now, if you know what to do, jump in". Simples.
Don't know why you're trying to "put me on blast" here frankly.

Kimbot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But that isn't what we are saying.

We are saying use communities over messages or clan chat if you are looking for extras for something.

Why would we be demanding people, anyone, organise everything within communities and open their fireteam to anyone and everyone for everything?

I use communities for nightfall, strikes and pvp. I joined a raid at the weekend when they were looking for numbers.

I will likely look to use it more for raiding when I have completed it even once.

We've oy said communities over messages or clan chat because the later two 100% exclude people on the community, when you are offering a free space for something up. If you want to specifically invite someone, or use threads here great, you do you. The admin of the clan simply don't want to create or moderate exclusionary chat functions.

In D1 stuff was organized outside of messages (the chosen clan communication tool) all the time. Why are people expecting it be so different now?

When it came to raids there was always full clarity, it was either posted in the chat messages and first 5 to reply were in. If it wasnt done in the chat it was done here on boards exactly the same way, first 5 were in. I have already seen people throw up messages to start raid groups and be completely ignored (Well ignored might not be the best choice of words on this) and people then arrange raids after their posts which gives the impression they are ignored.

SolvableKnave

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In D1 stuff was organized outside of messages (the chosen clan communication tool) all the time. Why are people expecting it be so different now?

Generic Dreadhead

SeanHarty wrote: »

I don't think people really give a ****e when people do what you guys do and team up.

its when people are doing that but at the same time coming on here and going on about why communities is great and that it should be used to organise raids/strikes/ etc.

practice what you preach.

Yeah Sean, except I actually did.



ˆ This Raid went ahead and we did the Baths (on my Alt)

Maybe you're of the assumption I'm blitzing the raid on my 6th run now.
I spent Wed, Thur, Sun and Mon actually doing it on my main character (Blind) and yesterday we just got back to the boss again, having not killed him before the reset.
I haven't finished the Raid once. I don't even have a 3rd character now.