Young Business Owner Difficulties

wyf437gn6btzue

Well to start, I`m one year out of school, never been on social welfare and don`t have any documented experience anywhere really, what I do have a lot of experience in personally is design, printing and photography.

To cut a long story short, I left school in 2016 and didn't go on to college as I wasn't entitled to a grant so even with a part time job it`ll work out too expensive when I include travel etc so it was out of the question. I then went to seek employment but wound up deciding to become self employed and started setting up a business in printing, I used money I had saved when I was in school to set myself up and didn't claim anything off the state whatsoever. The business kinda took off but I left it too tight with money and am now struggling, I have an interested party who will give me regular guaranteed work but I need additional equipment. I approached the LEO who to be honest weren't much use at all and the only useful thing I got was a referral to Microfinance Ireland. I sent them in an application for a €2000 loan with a business plan and everything else but I got refused because in a round about way "how can someone young be responsible for their finances". I was treated like a prize clown by the assessor who talked to me like I was some eejit, persistently pointing out obvious things as if I wasn't aware.

Anyway, I`m struggling financially and I have absolutely nowhere to turn because I haven't been on the dole basically so no one really gives a Sh*te, I`ve a machine that needs to be serviced to continue using it for work which I cant afford to do in reality and I`ve the prospect of regular very well paying work but no one will help me get the finance to acquire the equipment, I`m at the end of my tether at the minute and I honestly don`t know how to proceed.

Any input, I`m all ears.

Gloomtastic!

Firstly, well done for getting this far. You've done the hard part now you just have to keep the momentum going.

To raise finance for additional equipment you could try the following options:

1. Ask family/friends for the money. Or act as a guarantor for you.
2. Try and lease the equipment as opposed to buying outright. Or get the equipment supplier to give you a loan to buy it.
3. Farm the job out to another supplier who has the equipment - this happens all the time in printing but you'll need to factor in additional transport costs and possibly time.

(I'd go for 3 personally).

While general printing has taken a huge hit in recent years, there is always room for great service in any business. Try and get any money you're owed in quickly otherwise you'll never see the end of cashflow troubles.

Good luck to you!

sysprogrammer

really well done Carnut , god work so far.

Can you clarify one or two things for me , so we are better able to help you.

1) Why are you not claiming for your state entitlements, please do visit Citizens info and see what you are missing out on.

2) What is the piece of printing equipment and what is the issue with it?
there are a few old school printers on boards and some newer 'subli' printers who may be able to help.

3) My print supplier told me they would do a print run for me if I ever required a large volume order. Is it possible to sub-contract part of this work , at least for the first few invoices until you repair your equipment.

Also , what Gloomtastic said. +1

SysProg

Mercy Dry Voyager

Mercy Dry Voyager wrote: »

.............

Any input, I`m all ears.

Credit Union loan?

Or the below?

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

...........

1. Ask family/friends for the money. Or act as a guarantor for you.............

"the prospect of regular very well paying work" .............. are we talking about €x000s/annum?

Buttercake

no one really gives a Sh*te

Exactly, and this my friend will be the make or break time for you as an entrepreneur.. this is the time where you need to be resourceful, savvy, shrewd, creative and industrious...you will look back on yourself in 20 years time and go "jesus remember that time i had no cash" while swanning around in your S-Class!

Reaching out on a forum like this is great start...many entrepreneurs have a lot of pride and think they will look stupid asking for advice so well done, the lack of support for entrepreneurs in this country truly depresses me.

First up, the LEO, you may as well be talking to your grandmother.. they are no use.. unless you want a big box of leaflets and a4 sheets to bring home with you.

microfinance ireland, i thought you need a letter from your bank saying you have been refused a loan application? anyway they claim to offer finance to startups and small businesses but the amount of hoops you have to jump through is incredible, their response to you is hardly a surprise, some jumped up former civil servant. It makes me wonder who they actually lend to because they are looking for these "perfect" clients who could probably get cash easily from their own bank at lower interest.

Back to your own circumstances, have you tried your credit union? they are usually helpful, loan sorted in a couple of days? and 2k is not that much, you should easily get a loan from them with your parents guaranteeing.. if you are not a member, join them asap.

Your bank? did you ask them, can you get a temporary overdraft for a few months explain that you have this work pending?

Family, ask your parents and tell them you are in need, can they do anything?

Failing all of that, get a part-time job - anywhere, pub, restaurant something to keep you going..it will be a struggle but thats what business is all about, thats why we all do it, because we love it.

Squatman

maybe your too new, but linkedfinance?

wyf437gn6btzue

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Firstly, well done for getting this far. You've done the hard part now you just have to keep the momentum going.

To raise finance for additional equipment you could try the following options:

1. Ask family/friends for the money. Or act as a guarantor for you.
2. Try and lease the equipment as opposed to buying outright. Or get the equipment supplier to give you a loan to buy it.
3. Farm the job out to another supplier who has the equipment - this happens all the time in printing but you'll need to factor in additional transport costs and possibly time.

(I'd go for 3 personally).

While general printing has taken a huge hit in recent years, there is always room for great service in any business. Try and get any money you're owed in quickly otherwise you'll never see the end of cashflow troubles.

Good luck to you!

Thanks for the reply, getting money off a relative isn't an option unfortunately, I looked at leasing but I have no history in business so it`ll be nearly impossible to get a lease was what I was told by a supplier. I outsource some my work to keep my costs down but the large format printer I have which is down at the moment is the real workhorse on what I can make the money on.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it!

Gangu

Mercy Dry Voyager wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, getting money off a relative isn't an option unfortunately, I looked at leasing but I have no history in business so it`ll be nearly impossible to get a lease was what I was told by a supplier. I outsource some my work to keep my costs down but the large format printer I have which is down at the moment is the real workhorse on what I can make the money on.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it!

Can you get paid in advance, even in part? May assist if you can.

wyf437gn6btzue

sysprogrammer wrote: »

really well done Carnut , god work so far.

Can you clarify one or two things for me , so we are better able to help you.

1) Why are you not claiming for your state entitlements, please do visit Citizens info and see what you are missing out on.

2) What is the piece of printing equipment and what is the issue with it?
there are a few old school printers on boards and some newer 'subli' printers who may be able to help.

3) My print supplier told me they would do a print run for me if I ever required a large volume order. Is it possible to sub-contract part of this work , at least for the first few invoices until you repair your equipment.

Also , what Gloomtastic said. +1

SysProg

Thanks for replying, As far as I`m aware Im not entitled to anything, my main mistake was not signing on job seekers allowance when I left school, if I did there would be a good few resources available to me. I`m having trouble with my large format machine, its an unusual problem to be having with them but I seem to attract unusual problems I outsource all my large run stuff like leaflets etc, works out cheaper than me having to run the machines in short term. Unfortunately its not cost effective to outsource the stuff that I do mostly which is large format so I rely on my own machine.

Never a dull day, thanks for the reply

wyf437gn6btzue

Augeo wrote: »

Credit Union loan?

Or the below?




"the prospect of regular very well paying work" .............. are we talking about €x000s/annum?

Thanks for the reply, Looking into the credit union first thing tomorrow. From an estimate it'll be worth in the region of €8000+ per year from that particular client maybe more depending, he also has two other businesses so I could get the work from them too, he has a printer working with him now but isn't very happy with him from what I can gather. I`m also working on design work for a separate business now that will be worth about €1500 (at min) to me in early September with the view of regular work thereon.

Thanks for the reply

wyf437gn6btzue

Buttercake wrote: »

Exactly, and this my friend will be the make or break time for you as an entrepreneur.. this is the time where you need to be resourceful, savvy, shrewd, creative and industrious...you will look back on yourself in 20 years time and go "jesus remember that time i had no cash" while swanning around in your S-Class!

Reaching out on a forum like this is great start...many entrepreneurs have a lot of pride and think they will look stupid asking for advice so well done, the lack of support for entrepreneurs in this country truly depresses me.

First up, the LEO, you may as well be talking to your grandmother.. they are no use.. unless you want a big box of leaflets and a4 sheets to bring home with you.

microfinance ireland, i thought you need a letter from your bank saying you have been refused a loan application? anyway they claim to offer finance to startups and small businesses but the amount of hoops you have to jump through is incredible, their response to you is hardly a surprise, some jumped up former civil servant. It makes me wonder who they actually lend to because they are looking for these "perfect" clients who could probably get cash easily from their own bank at lower interest.

Back to your own circumstances, have you tried your credit union? they are usually helpful, loan sorted in a couple of days? and 2k is not that much, you should easily get a loan from them with your parents guaranteeing.. if you are not a member, join them asap.

Your bank? did you ask them, can you get a temporary overdraft for a few months explain that you have this work pending?

Family, ask your parents and tell them you are in need, can they do anything?

Failing all of that, get a part-time job - anywhere, pub, restaurant something to keep you going..it will be a struggle but thats what business is all about, thats why we all do it, because we love it.

Thanks very much for the reply, all of what you said about the LEO and Microfinance is spot on. I honestly thought there would be more support than this but its absolutely shocking. Microfinance take applications now from people who are unlikely to get a loan from a bank which I am. I almost regret even applying because the particular person I was dealing with made me feel like a stupid eejit. I`m going to approach my credit union tomorrow, I`ve no account with them but my parents have saved their whole life with them so hopefully they might be able to help me out. My family aren`t in a position at the moment, I know they'd like to help me out but they do a lot form me already. Looking for a part time job is on my immediate agenda, I sent out a few CV`s over the past couple of weeks but all negative reply's.

I really appreciate your reply, many thanks

wyf437gn6btzue

Gangu wrote: »

Can you get paid in advance, even in part? May assist if you can.

Not an option by the looks of things but I`ll investigate it.

wyf437gn6btzue

Squatman wrote: »

maybe your too new, but linkedfinance?

I`ve never heard of them but I`ll have a look into that, Thanks for the reply

Perhaps this client who will be worth 8K a year might do you a favour and give you a purchase order and a letter of intent. If you can get these then it will help you a lot along with a business plan when going to a bank or credit union. They are looking at your ability to repay the loan, that is what you have to prove to them. So if you have the PO that removes that issue for them.

I gather you only need 2K - get yourself credit card or a few cards from different banks and problem solved.
You could also get a 2K car loan from the bank which is a lot easier then getting business loan. Or you could have a family member get the loan on your behalf and agree to be the one to pay it back.

ironclaw

Echo what has been said about LEO. We went in dow eyed and realised we were talking to people who may as well have been auto responders. I'm sure they do good work but being in the tech industry, they didn't have a clue. We couldn't get a loan or assistance even though we could prove we generated over €40k for local businesses in less than 3 months since we started.

CeilingFly

I'll be a little harsher than the others. But I see where Microfinance are coming from - your level of experience is very small, the business you have is tiny and whilst you may have some skills in the field of work you probably don't have the skills yet for managing a business. (company registration, vat registration, books of accounts, realistic business plans, etc)

The work you are doing now hardly takes up many hours.

Unemployment is at 6%

Go and talk to employment agencies / check companies in your local area and get a job that will bring in a basic income and which will allow you gradually build up the business.

Plenty of jobs such as shelf packing, retail, bar/restaurant etc that the hours are out of the normal working day.


Another option (and probably the better one) is to work with a printing company and build experience.

mrawkward

You are unlikely to raise funds at your age without a guarantor for your borrowings. Credit Union a good place to start, especially if your family have a connection there. See can you get on this http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_and_work/short_term_enterprise_allowance.html

sysprogrammer

I like the idea of repairing the equipment on a cost basis. There are a number of facebook groups for printers, I'm a member of one or two and they all help each other with design / repair / marketing / outsourcing.

Pm me if you would like the name of the group and there you will find help with repairing your large format printer.

There are people here in Ireland who are excellent at repairs , which would only cost you 100-200 + parts. Depending on the print issue of course. One of these runs a store on Adverts I believe.

What is the issue out of curiosity ?

wyf437gn6btzue

CeilingFly wrote: »

I'll be a little harsher than the others. But I see where Microfinance are coming from - your level of experience is very small, the business you have is tiny and whilst you may have some skills in the field of work you probably don't have the skills yet for managing a business. (company registration, vat registration, books of accounts, realistic business plans, etc)

The work you are doing now hardly takes up many hours.

Unemployment is at 6%

Go and talk to employment agencies / check companies in your local area and get a job that will bring in a basic income and which will allow you gradually build up the business.

Plenty of jobs such as shelf packing, retail, bar/restaurant etc that the hours are out of the normal working day.


Another option (and probably the better one) is to work with a printing company and build experience.

I can see where your coming from and I`d agree with you somewhat, realistically my business skills a not too bad but I`m learning a lot, especially spending more time around business people, its really helping me. Admin things like company registration is where I may struggle, managing finances etc I find alright, I`m very conscious on making sure I get value with everything and I never really spend money on things that for the most part aren`t constructive, like I don`t drink or smoke etc. I`ve already dealt with revenue for regging as self employed and the CRO for business name etc, small stuff but when it comes to it I`m happy to learn.

I understand that a lot of people wont take me seriously and to be honest I cant blame them, but whether I`m 19 or 40 I`m still trying and as far as Im concerned I cant be discredited for that, probably in part why I was a slight bit annoyed about how MFI dealt with me.

On a side note I do drop in with a printer who helps me out quite a bit whenever I need to know a particular thing, I`ve sent Cv`s out today for whatever print related job I could find and whatever job is close and has regular working hours, I`m happy to slog it out to get where I want.

Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it

wyf437gn6btzue

sysprogrammer wrote: »

I like the idea of repairing the equipment on a cost basis. There are a number of facebook groups for printers, I'm a member of one or two and they all help each other with design / repair / marketing / outsourcing.

Pm me if you would like the name of the group and there you will find help with repairing your large format printer.

There are people here in Ireland who are excellent at repairs , which would only cost you 100-200 + parts. Depending on the print issue of course. One of these runs a store on Adverts I believe.

What is the issue out of curiosity ?

Got it sorted today, found someone who will do it for me fairly reasonable and he`ll service it too. Basically the problem is there is a problem with the print head blocking, Its not to do with the head its more the flushing box, capping station and wiper blade. Ink doesn't seem to be clearing from these which result in a blockage every time the head comes in contact with them. Not the most common of problem but what can ye do.

I`ll pm you for the name of the group anyway, no harm.

sysprogrammer

that is Great to hear. repair or replace the component (not the printer).

do PM me and join the facebook group, lot's of printers have common faults, and there are some folks there who have been in the business for decades and impart their knowledge.

don't know where I would be without them , probably minus a few printers out the window.

Cheers,
Sys

Buttercake

Mercy Dry Voyager wrote: »

but whether I`m 19 or 40 I`m still trying and as far as Im concerned I cant be discredited for that

i wouldnt let it get to you and move on, when you have no significant business history to look back on, you are not a limited company with co directors, no premises, no staff.. i would think you would be very high risk for any btb credit provider

im sure underwriters would never admit it but i would think your age is something to do with, whats the chances of you getting bored and going to Thailand for a few years? a 40 year old might have dependents or be married have a house or have something to keep them here for the duration of the finance agreement.

antoinolachtnai

Well done on getting this far.

The key to this business is really understanding the cashflow.

You are actually better without any finance if you can avoid it at your scale. If you are big enough to carry it, fair enough, but it sounds like you don't really have the capacity.

The boring truth of this business is that the key financier is your customers. Getting them to pay on time and if possible up-front is the way to keep yourself out of trouble.

You do need to be thinking about the future all the time. The printer is ok this time, but it will eventually need to be replaced. You need to have the money aside (or available through finance) to do that when the time comes.

I think you should keep in mind the alternative places that will outsource this sort of printing very cheaply with acceptable quality. If you can avoid getting tied up with financing it might be a great advantage.

That way you would be able to invest the money you've put aside in other aspects of developing your business (sales, marketing, customer service).

Do try to understand what your customer actually wants from you. I'd guess that what they really depend on you for is to manage the printing for them, rather than to do the printing itself.

wyf437gn6btzue

Buttercake wrote: »

i wouldnt let it get to you and move on, when you have no significant business history to look back on, you are not a limited company with co directors, no premises, no staff.. i would think you would be very high risk for any btb credit provider

im sure underwriters would never admit it but i would think your age is something to do with, whats the chances of you getting bored and going to Thailand for a few years? a 40 year old might have dependents or be married have a house or have something to keep them here for the duration of the finance agreement.

Yeah I`d agree, I totally understand that I`d be seen as very risky. The assessor that was dealing with me basically said that without saying it directly. But on the other hand, I was looking for 2k and I have proof that I`ve already plugged 2k of my own cash into it so I`d think if I wasn't serious I would of done what any other logical 19 year old would of done and went off and enjoyed it.

In all honesty though, if you contrast it with people my age who receive thousands worth of grants to head off to college to study what they want to eventually end up in a job, I`m basically doing the same, I`m employing myself yet there is zero support available for someone like me.

wyf437gn6btzue

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Well done on getting this far.

The key to this business is really understanding the cashflow.

You are actually better without any finance if you can avoid it at your scale. If you are big enough to carry it, fair enough, but it sounds like you don't really have the capacity.

The boring truth of this business is that the key financier is your customers. Getting them to pay on time and if possible up-front is the way to keep yourself out of trouble.

You do need to be thinking about the future all the time. The printer is ok this time, but it will eventually need to be replaced. You need to have the money aside (or available through finance) to do that when the time comes.

I think you should keep in mind the alternative places that will outsource this sort of printing very cheaply with acceptable quality. If you can avoid getting tied up with financing it might be a great advantage.

That way you would be able to invest the money you've put aside in other aspects of developing your business (sales, marketing, customer service).

Do try to understand what your customer actually wants from you. I'd guess that what they really depend on you for is to manage the printing for them, rather than to do the printing itself.

All very valid points, At the minute all the stuff that is easy to outsource I`d outsource them like flyers, phone cases, promotional materials etc. Easy to get them done cheap (at decent quality) with a B2B printer and sell them on at a relatively decent margin considering, but things like enlargement photo prints and poster prints simply can`t be outsourced for a number of different reasons, which is why I`m eager to get the machine fixed.

The reason I wanted to get a loan was to source additional equipment for a client who is guaranteeing me work and use the surplus as a small cash flow. Its looking now that It`ll be a while before the equipment is sourced at which point It might be harder to get the offer of that work again.

Believe me I don`t like the idea of having 2k worth of liability plus interest but when someone is taking you serious and trying to put work your way and I cant reciprocate with an actual service its slightly irritating.

Thanks for your reply

dresden8

You can still sign on. Straight down to the Labour exchange tomorrow.

tacofries

I have delt with LEO quite a bit and to be honest, if you can portray your business well enough then your age should not be a problem. Likewise with the banks, and even more so Microfinance. Are you sure that your business plan is up to scratch? There are key criteria that you need to meet in order get finance from any party so make sure that your business plan has been specifically created to suit the criteria of the person that it is been given to. You said the loan assessor was pointing out obvious things to you. Were these obvious things in your business plan? You are young so people will rightly think that you don't know it all. This means that you have to give time to your business plan so that when someone reads it they see past your age and say 'yeah, this guy has a really strong understanding of how to get his business from A to B'.

You said that you aren't aware of any form of social welfare that is available to you. Did you actually go up to the dole office and ask? Take one hour out of your day, go up to the dole office and ask to meet with an Intreo officer. Once you meet with them then plead your case and let them know that you are only asking for money until the business finds its feet. You will be surprised how helpful they are. One thing that I have learnt in business is never to assume anything as very often assumptions are completely wrong and result in big mistakes or missed opportunities.

I can tell you from first hand experience that being a young entrepreneur in Ireland is only a benefit. People appreciate young lads/girls giving things a go and since young people have a bit of naivety about them, it really makes people want to help us out! Best of luck, hope things work out for you and fair play for giving it a good go

tacofries

Mercy Dry Voyager wrote: »

The reason I wanted to get a loan was to source additional equipment for a client who is guaranteeing me work and use the surplus as a small cash flow. Its looking now that It`ll be a while before the equipment is sourced at which point It might be harder to get the offer of that work again.

There are grants in LEO for purchasing new equipment. Go back to them and push them hard. Show them that you are going to be on their case until they take you seriously. LEO are like insurance companies, they will always reject you at first but once you keep at them they will eventually begin to take you seriously.

Before doing so get your business plan sorted. Do you have any friends that are accountants that could go over the financials for you? Really emphasise that by buying this new machine you will opening up a whole new market and that already you have work lined up for it.

antoinolachtnai

From your planning, approximately how Quickly could you pay off this loan?

sysprogrammer

What equipment do you intend purchasing ?

The item may be available to use at another printers until you can afford your own, I've used others equipment in the past to fulfil certain orders.

Such is the nature of printing , even your ink/paper supplier is a good place to start asking if they know anyone who can help.

thecommander

I've run a printing company for the last 10 years, and then another 7 years of print brokering. Beware of chasing equipment and hoping that the next bit of kit will be the one to land you a certain client. Best to work with what you have, outsource the bits you can't do. Once the outsourced jobs start to add up to an amount that it makes sense to buy your own equipment then look around. Nothing as bad as a bit of kit sitting there without work going onto it, costing you money every day.

As mentioned above, other printers are a great source of knowledge and are usually happy to share once you're not stepping on their toes.