Would you prefer less Irish people in Ireland?

Help!!!!

robindch wrote: »

Broadly speaking, immigrants work harder (as they usually immigrate to work and earn), they consume fewer health-service resources (as they're younger and healthier) and are less criminally-minded than native-born individuals.

Seems that the "native Irish" could learn a little bit from these good people.

What about the ones that are on benefits & social housing & have never worked a day in Ireland?

Graham

Help!!!! wrote: »

Thats silly, of course partners & kids can move back to Ireland. The same as immigration can still happen but not mass immigration & not immigration where they are here for benefits

Your assertion that migrants are just here for the benefits just doesn't hold water.

almost half of foreign nationals in the Irish labour force are 'highly educated', the highest in the EU and one of the highest rates in the OECD

Immigrants into Ireland are predominately from developed states: three quarters are from a high-income countries, compared to the OECD average of just 44pc.

Sofiztikated

This seems to be todays "I don't like people that aren't like me" thread.

Is it not a bit early in the day?

Sam Kade

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

i dont really care as long as there's enough housing, healthcare etc for all. We can't reap the rewards of globalism while remaining insular. Pretty much all minimum wage jobs seem to be done by immigrants now, who would do those jobs without them?

People on the dole also there are plenty Irish people in min wage jobs.

Sam Kade

robindch wrote: »

Broadly speaking, immigrants work harder (as they usually immigrate to work and earn), they consume fewer health-service resources (as they're younger and healthier) and are less criminally-minded than native-born individuals.

Seems that the "native Irish" could learn a little bit from these good people.

Another ambassador for Ireland :rolleyes:

Help!!!!

Graham wrote: »

Your assertion that migrants are just here for the benefits just doesn't hold water.

almost half of foreign nationals in the Irish labour force are 'highly educated', the highest in the EU and one of the highest rates in the OECD

Immigrants into Ireland are predominately from developed states: three quarters are from a high-income countries, compared to the OECD average of just 44pc.

OK so what about the many thousands who are on the dole immediately after getting a PPSN? They not coming for benefits?? & yes there are more Irish on benefits, maybe they wouldn't be if there were less immigrants who knows

http://www.thejournal.ie/working-in-ireland-foreign-nationals-change-social-2467811-Nov2015/

ohnonotgmail

Help!!!! wrote: »

What about the ones that are on benefits & social housing & have never worked a day in Ireland?

how many of them are doing that?

Help!!!!

Graham wrote: »

You're kind of missing the whole point of free movement aren't you?



It's stood to us fairly well so far, long may it continue.



While I can't speak for those with half a brain, I personally don't think we're particularly overrun with bogus Syrian refugees.

Having to move because your country would rather pay benefits, give housing to immigrants rather than investing it into your country through better pay for nurses/teachers etc. Do people not get it less immigrants on benefits less people on HSE, and with the right government the money saved can go back to the people

Help!!!!

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how many of them are doing that?

Look post above

osarusan

Help!!!! wrote: »

OK so what about the many thousands who are on the dole immediately after getting a PPSN?

http://www.thejournal.ie/working-in-ireland-foreign-nationals-change-social-2467811-Nov2015/

That link doesn't support your suggestion that many thousands are on the dole immediately after getting a PPSN at all.

Did you actually read it?

seamus

Help!!!! wrote: »

OK so what about the many thousands who are on the dole immediately after getting a PPSN?

Have you got a source for that claim?

No, the article you quoted does not back up that claim.

Help!!!!

osarusan wrote: »

That link doesn't support your suggestion that many thousands are on the dole immediately after getting a PPSN at all.

Did you actually read it?

A total of 85,724 new numbers were handed out, with just 6,312 of these collecting payments before the end of 2014.
The CSO has noted that the low figure could be because a person has a child, becomes eligible for job seekers claims or other forms of benefit that require a certain period of residency.
A slight increase of the number in receipt can be seen with the elapse of time.
Out of the 62,984 foreign nationals that received PPS numbers in 2009, 11,764 currently receive social welfare payments – which works out at around 18%.

Graham

Help!!!! wrote: »

OK so what about the many thousands who are on the dole immediately after getting a PPSN?

Are you pulling figures out of your hat or do you actually have real numbers?

How do they compare with the local/native population in terms of number of people, percentages, and amounts claimed?

IamAGobdaw

Graham wrote: »

Your assertion that migrants are just here for the benefits just doesn't hold water.

almost half of foreign nationals in the Irish labour force are 'highly educated', the highest in the EU and one of the highest rates in the OECD

Immigrants into Ireland are predominately from developed states: three quarters are from a high-income countries, compared to the OECD average of just 44pc.

The Ersi have shown that only around 40% of Africans in Ireland are employed.

seamus

IamAGobdaw wrote: »

The Ersi have shown that only around 40% of Africans in Ireland are employed.

And?
How many are unemployed?

osarusan

Help!!!! wrote: »

A total of 85,724 new numbers were handed out, with just 6,312 of these collecting payments before the end of 2014.
The CSO has noted that the low figure could be because a person has a child, becomes eligible for job seekers claims or other forms of benefit that require a certain period of residency.
A slight increase of the number in receipt can be seen with the elapse of time.
Out of the 62,984 foreign nationals that received PPS numbers in 2009, 11,764 currently receive social welfare payments – which works out at around 18%.

You are just quoting from the article - but what you are quoting simply doesn't support your claim that people are going straight on the dole immediately after getting a PPSN.

Help!!!!

Graham wrote: »

Are you pulling figures out of your hat or do you actually have real numbers?

How do they compare with the local/native population in terms of number of people, percentages, and amounts claimed?

2014 fewer than 10% 85,724 got PPSN 6,312 received benefits is one example

seamus

Help!!!! wrote: »

2014 fewer than 10% 85,724 got PPSN 6,312 received benefits is one example

You are aware that "receiving benefits" doesn't mean you're on the dole?

I have a job and a good salary and I receive benefits.

You claimed that thousands are on the dole immediately after getting a PPSN.

It's clear now that you're talking out of your ringpiece and haven't a clue what most of these terms or numbers even mean.

Lollipops23

I have no issue with taking a certain amount of migrants/refugees. As long as they are given the tools to be able to contribute to society, then why not?

I do take issue with those who refuse to integrate or participate in society; I do not tolerate the niqab or the burqa. They are not part of any civilised society IMO.

IamAGobdaw

robindch wrote: »

Broadly speaking, immigrants work harder (as they usually immigrate to work and earn), they consume fewer health-service resources (as they're younger and healthier) and are less criminally-minded than native-born individuals.

Seems that the "native Irish" could learn a little bit from these good people.

Why are you quoting an American study in a discussion about Ireland?

Of the 12,579 persons committed, 10,359 were Irish Nationals (82.4%), which is a decrease of 1,620 or 13.5% on the corresponding 2015 figure of 11,979. Other EU nationals (excluding Irish) accounted for 1,233 (9.8%) of persons committed. Other European nationals accounted for 141 (1.1%), African nationals for 314 (2.5%), Asian nationals for 159 (1.3%) and Central/South American nationals accounted for 75 (0.6%).

It seems that some immigrant groups are overly represented in the prison commital stats here.

The_Kew_Tour

OH dear:pac::pac:

shanered

seamus wrote: »

And?
How many are unemployed?

100% - 40% = 60% Unemployed....

And that would show that a large portion of them would be on jobseekers allowance.

Just thought I'd help with the math

Help!!!!

seamus wrote: »

You are aware that "receiving benefits" doesn't mean you're on the dole?

I have a job and a good salary and I receive benefits.

You claimed that thousands are on the dole immediately after getting a PPSN.

It's clear now that you're talking out of your ringpiece and haven't a clue what most of these terms or numbers even mean.

So you are saying that all immigrants in Ireland are working & have come here to work & none are on the dole?

seamus

shanered wrote: »

100% - 40% = 60% Unemployed....

And that would show that a large portion of them would be on jobseekers allowance.

Just thought I'd help with the math

Yeah, another person who has no idea what those numbers mean.

Are you aware that only 40% of Irish people in Ireland are employed?

No, I didn't think so.

Help!!!! wrote: »

So you are saying that all immigrants in Ireland are working & have come here to work & none are on the dole?

Are you saying that you hate all immigrants and wish they would die?

See, we can all make up stuff that other people didn't say.

Your numbers are nonsense, your argument is based on ignorance, go find out what these numbers and phrases mean and then we can have a meaningful conversation.

Graham

Help!!!! wrote: »

2014 fewer than 10% 85,724 got PPSN 6,312 received benefits is one example

Define 'benefits'.

IamAGobdaw

seamus wrote: »

And?
How many are unemployed?

What are the other 60% doing here. Who is subsidising their residence here? The state? They're obviously not arriving here with work permits.

osarusan

Help!!!! wrote: »

So you are saying that all immigrants in Ireland are working & have come here to work & none are on the dole?

F**king pathetic strawman.

You can't make an argument to save your life.

IamAGobdaw

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, another person who has no idea what those numbers mean.

Are you aware that only 40% of Irish people in Ireland are employed?

No, I didn't think so.

Only 40% of African adults resident in Ireland are employed.

Graham

shanered wrote: »

100% - 40% = 60% Unemployed....

And that would show that a large portion of them would be on jobseekers allowance.

Just thought I'd help with the math

Are you counting people who are refused permission to work as unemployed?

SSr0

Back to the OP. Do people realise that Frankfurt is regarded as the most dangerous city in Germany?

IamAGobdaw

Graham wrote: »

Are you counting people who are refused permission to work as unemployed?

"Refused permission to work" as they're in the appeals process due to their asylum claims being refused. There are around 3,000 adults in the asylum system and they're not all African. Doesn't explain how the majority of Africans in Ireland don't work.

Help!!!!

Graham wrote: »

Are you counting people who are refused permission to work as unemployed?

Well they are also getting benefits paid by the government. Asylum seekers should also be processed more quickly

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

EU immigration? Sure bring it on as long as we allow good quality skilled immigrants.

No thanks to muslim immigration. Having visited Brussels and Paris recently I don't want Dublin to become like that. Both cities have their nice parts especially Paris, but stray into slightly cheaper areas and the dirty streets and menacing atmosphere are from another world. Those comparing it to Dublin on a Saturday night are deeply naïve/deluded.

how do you marry those two together? allow migration within EU means the problem you outlined in Brussels and Paris can move here right?

*not calling for a brexit type (yet anyway) move just curious for an answer

Help!!!!

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, another person who has no idea what those numbers mean.

Are you aware that only 40% of Irish people in Ireland are employed?

No, I didn't think so.

Are you saying that you hate all immigrants and wish they would die?

See, we can all make up stuff that other people didn't say.

Your numbers are nonsense, your argument is based on ignorance, go find out what these numbers and phrases mean and then we can have a meaningful conversation.

Well any money paid by the government whether its the dole/HAP/child benefit etc should not be paid out to those immigrants that have never worked in Ireland

seamus

Help!!!! wrote: »

Well any money paid by the government whether its the dole/HAP/child benefit etc should not be paid out to those immigrants that have never worked in Ireland

That's a legislation issue, not an immigration one.

If they're entitled to claim it, they should claim it. Just like you or I would if we lived abroad.

It's not immigrants' fault if they're eligible to claim benefits.

shanered

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, another person who has no idea what those numbers mean.

Are you aware that only 40% of Irish people in Ireland are employed?

No, I didn't think so.

Are you saying that you hate all immigrants and wish they would die?

See, we can all make up stuff that other people didn't say.

Your numbers are nonsense, your argument is based on ignorance, go find out what these numbers and phrases mean and then we can have a meaningful conversation.

Do you understand this?

7.1% (Jan 2017)
Republic of Ireland, Unemployment rate (2017)
Sources include: Eurostat

This means that 92.9% are employed or in training does it not?
Look ask a silly question get a silly answer.
I made no such claims about immigrants.

You can make up whatever you want but I made no comment other than clarify a previous poster. I have added no personal comments of my own.

I'd perfer not to have a "meaningful" coversation with somebody who cannot do basic math and asks silly questions whilst suggestion wild observations about what the other thinks before asking what they think.
Just to clarify, in now way would I wish death on all immigrants and I do not have any hate any either.

If anything I think the issue of immigration is a complex matter which requires understanding of different viewpoints and isn't a clear "let them all in" or "stop them all coming in" black/white issue and I wouldn't side with anyone who thought it was that simple.

IamAGobdaw

seamus wrote: »

Ah, now we're starting to get somewhere. Adults.

Can you please show your work for the rest of the class?

ERSI: The Monitoring Report on Integration 2016. It also shows us that there are proportionately more immigrants unemployed than natives. Kinda puts to bed the myth that they're here to pay our social welfare programs and that the natives are lazy dole whilst the newcomers are much more hardworking.

The only immigrant group with a higher employment rate than the natives are those from the Nordic countries.

Mutant z

We need to put a stop to this mass immigration which is destroying this country.

Help!!!!

seamus wrote: »

That's a legislation issue, not an immigration one.

If they're entitled to claim it, they should claim it. Just like you or I would if we lived abroad.

It's not immigrants' fault if they're eligible to claim benefits.

Don't know about you but I wouldn't. If I were moving to a country I would make sure I had a job lined up first. Lived in the UK for 20years never got any help. Worked paid my own rent/bill etc. There is no such thing as entitlement. Poland doesn't pay a thing for the first 2 years why should we be any different?

shanered

seamus wrote: »

That's a legislation issue, not an immigration one.

If they're entitled to claim it, they should claim it. Just like you or I would if we lived abroad.

It's not immigrants' fault if they're eligible to claim benefits.

Is immigration as a whole not a legislation issue?
I agree that people should/will claim whatever they're entitled to, but is this not part of the discussion, the legislation that immigrant (i.e. non-nationals) are entitled to in our country be it entry, finacial assistance etc...

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

biko

Around here a lot of petrol stations are now staffed by Pakistanis, so I suppose we are getting closer to our new underpaid, frustrated, religiously inclined, working class diversity goals.

seamus

shanered wrote: »

7.1% (Jan 2017)
Republic of Ireland, Unemployment rate (2017)
Sources include: Eurostat

This means that 92.9% are employed or in training does it not?

Not in the context we're talking about. 92.9% of those in the labour force are employed. People in education, retired or otherwise not in the labour force are not employed.

The "40%" figure for Africans relates to the total number employed versus the total number of adults.

For Irish people, this number is 62%, not 92%.

To compare like with like, the employment rate for Africans is 80.9% versus 92.9% for the population as a whole.

IamAGobdaw wrote: »

ERSI: The Monitoring Report on Integration 2016. It also shows us that there are proportionately more immigrants unemployed than natives. Kinda puts to bed the myth that they're here to pay our social welfare programs and that the natives are lazy dole whilst the newcomers are much more hardworking.

Thanks. Kinda puts to bed the myth that they're flooding here in their millions to drain our resources. The African population in Ireland dropped by 15% between 2014 and 2015 and the unemployment rate of those in Ireland dropped more than a third to 19.1% in the same year. That's really good going.

shanered wrote: »

Is immigration as a whole not a legislation issue?
I agree that people should/will claim whatever they're entitled to, but is this not part of the discussion, the legislation that immigrant (i.e. non-nationals) are entitled to in our country be it entry, finacial assistance etc...

Immigration as a whole is, but "immigration is bad because immigrants are claiming benefits" is directing blame at immigration legislation when it's welfare legislation that allows it.

Graham

Help!!!! wrote: »

Well they are also getting benefits paid by the government. Asylum seekers should also be processed more quickly

Let me get this straight, you're upset with those we don't allow to work for not working?

On your second point, I agree. Asylum applications should be processed much faster than they currently are.

Help!!!!

Graham wrote: »

Let me get this straight, you're upset with those we don't allow to work for not working?

On your second point, I agree. Asylum applications should be processed much faster than they currently are.

Dont allow to work because they shouldn't be here
The majority are not asylum seekers they are economic migrants. The quicker they are processed & returned the less money we need to pay them

Sofiztikated

Help!!!! wrote: »

Dont allow to work because they shouldn't be here
The majority are not asylum seekers they are economic migrants. The quicker they are processed & returned the less money we need to pay them

Is there anywhere we can return you to?

Help!!!!

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Is there anywhere we can return you to?

Yeah somewhere in the pacific would be nice

Dirty Dingus McGee

Bryson Famous Horsefly wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Let them in also.

topper75

suicide_circus wrote: »

Diversity is good.

Multiculturalism is good.

This is approved doctrine.

All who question approved doctrine will be sent for reprogramming.

That is why I am pessimistic for the future of Ireland and neighbouring nations.

The left wing are pushing this agenda and so are the large multinationals who the left style otherwise as the enemy.

Ordinary Joe and Josephine get walked on in the middle. Votes for Trump or Brexit aren't going to save them.

Our own govt, whichever flavour you choose, are simply there to do the EU's bidding. Heck, your tax euros are at work with the Irish navy bringing people into Europe unchecked.

What nobody tells you is why we need diversity or why we need all these people up here.

The population of the African continent is to double in the 2015-2050 period according to UN estimates.

Europe has no policy to address the issue other than let them drift in. We are not seeing a flood across the Med right now folks. We are seeing an initial trickle. Mark my words.

Help!!!!

topper75 wrote: »

That is why I am pessimistic for the future of Ireland and neighbouring nations.

The left wing are pushing this agenda and so are the large multinationals who the left style otherwise as the enemy.

Ordinary Joe and Josephine get walked on in the middle. Votes for Trump or Brexit aren't going to save them.

Our own govt, whichever flavour you choose, are simply there to do the EU's bidding. Heck, your tax euros are at work with the Irish navy bringing people into Europe unchecked.

What nobody tells you is why we need diversity or why we need all these people up here.

The population of the African continent is to double in the 2015-2050 period according to UN estimates.

Europe has no policy to address the issue other than let them drift in. We are not seeing a flood across the Med right now folks. We are seeing an initial trickle. Mark my words.

All they are doing is helping the the criminals make money in effect helping with people smuggling.