St. Kevin's Hospital is on fire

boardsuser1

According to Gerry Myers of Cork city fire brigade, one gable wall either collapsed or partially collapsed last night, i'm not too upto date on building design etc, but this is worse than the good shepherd fire in 2012 i've been told. That building is being redeveloped though.

pwurple

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Thanks for the schooling! I hadnt realised calling a building spooky would equate it to a living thing, There was I thinking the building drove around collecting the mentally unwell of cork and transporting them there, and keeping then there.

It was of such cultural heritage it was left fall apart and rot. That was Irelands indifference to its built heritage. More indifference was (from what I've read up on it overnight) the fact it was a moniment to suffering, misery, neglect, torture and degradation of human beings abandoned by society.
Maybe your cultural outrage might be more appropriately directed towards people, seeing as you're the expert on living things!

Every single piece of built heritage in this country is subject to indifference, or worse, blocking of development. Vernon Mount house put through numerous planning submissions which were all rejected, until the owner gave up. Look at George Boole's house. The thing f-ing collapsed, and they only refurbed when there was international coverage with Boole 200.

It's our history, our heritage, erasing it does nothing except appease those who want to stick their heads in the sand and pretend it never happened. Repeating exactly what was done at the time.

Hide it, cover it up, pretend it didn't happen.

Sound familiar?

It's a revolting attitude.

whisky_galore

At the risk of invoking Godwin's, by that logic, maybe they should have bulldozed the likes of Dachau, Auschwitz, redeveloped the Killing Fields etc. because they offended so much?

Or keep it local, pull down the Cork Gaol or the buildings on Spike Island because bad stuff happened there too?

Yeah sure keep the happy clappy bits of Irish culture as we still can't face up to the parts of our history that make us squirm.

HSE should have flogged it during the boom. Muppets.

zilog_jones

whisky_galore wrote: »

At the risk of invoking Godwin's, by that logic, maybe they should have bulldozed the likes of Dachau, Auschwitz, redeveloped the Killing Fields etc. because they offended so much?

Or keep it local, pull down the Cork Gaol or the buildings on Spike Island because bad stuff happened there too?

Yeah sure keep the happy clappy bits of Irish culture as we still can't face up to the parts of our history that make us squirm.

You can't save them all.

What's now called Atkins Hall is going to be kept at least - that's a significant building for many reasons (moreso than St. Kevin's) - unfortunately even that is half derelict with significant fire damage, despite some of it (the west end) being redeveloped and occupied. I'm not sure there's really a precedent to keep St. Kevin's, and all the other related buildings in that area - it's a crazy amount of valuable land that's going to waste.

I lived in Atkins Hall for about a year around 2010 - security was pretty poor, with frequent suspicious traffic to/from St. Kevin's. Security consisted of some sporadic/broken temporary fencing, and a man in a car who was asleep half the time. There were many points of entry to the grounds around the place. Was not a nice place to live in (the apartments were built to a very poor standard as well).

I think they would have been better off cleaning up the place and leaving the grounds open to the public and somewhat maintained. The half-assed attempts at blocking it off probably just made it more attractive to anti-social behaviour. Too late now, anyway!

whisky_galore

zilog_jones wrote: »

You can't save them all.

What you mean is we can hardly save anything.

The situ in Atkins Hall is just symptomatic of the many half arsed ways things get done in this country.
Most everything is slapped-together, bargain bucket standard 'shur it'll do'.

the_syco

In fairness, St Columba’s Lunatic Asylum (Sligo) closed in 1992, and was only developed as the Clarion Hotel in 2005 by an American business. And that was nice before they started work on it.

the_syco

Augeo wrote: »

HSE should have flogged it during the boom. Muppets.

After it had just been shut? Can't see anyone wanting the place at the time.

the_syco

the_syco wrote: »

After it had just been shut? Can't see anyone wanting the place at the time.

Well if no one wanted it during a building boom ...................

Hopefully the scum are caught. Was a fine building to look up at. Modern apartments could have been built there while retaining the look of the building but now it will have to be flattened.

Apparently there is some squatting there by homeless people also so lucky no one was killed.

boardsuser1

Iker Easy Indigo wrote: »

Hopefully the scum are caught. Was a fine building to look up at. Modern apartments could have been built there while retaining the look of the building but now it will have to be flattened.

Apparently there is some squatting there by homeless people also so lucky no one was killed.

Have engineers confirmed demolition?

Junkyard Tom

pwurple wrote: »

These are Cork's pyramids, our empire state building.

Sorry, but I had a bit of a chuckle to myself at the comparisons. Our passage graves would be Ireland's equivalent to the Pyramids and our Castles would be far more iconic than the Empire state.

I've mixed feelings about the building. On the one hand it has historic significance but on the other I could imagine a lot of tortured souls being released to the heavens as it went up in flames.

BlinkingLights

The building does have a horrible history, as do many others, but architecturally speaking it was and still is an important piece of Cork's 19th century heritage.

At the very least, whoever is redeveloping this should have to keep it looking like it does from the front.

There's a big issue with some of these institutional buildings as there is no commercial interest in refurbishing them and making them into something useful and the sheer scale of this one would make that even more difficult.

The costs involved in a full refurbishment are likely to be astronomical. So I would imagine the best case scenario now is probably keeping the facade.

That being said, I think the long, earlier stone building, the old Eglinton Asylum actually is probably far more architecturally significant and is a really stunning piece.

The philosophy behind those early institutions was quite progressive. They believed (correctly) that if you created a restful, pleasant environment that you would encourage people with mental illnesses to recuperate. That's why the very old building is located in a pleasant place, with an amazing view, nice landscaping and very good architecture.

In the later part of the 19th century there was a swing towards extremely negative ideas about the mentally ill and the early days of psychiatry took some very brutal, unscientific and physical approaches to dealing with mental illness. Couple that with abusive laws that were often designed to get people out of the way and the genuine problems causing a huge amount of mental illness - grinding poverty issues, families being split up and emigration under very bad circumstances and the all with the famine in the background and you can see why Ireland had a vast mental health issue in that period.

That's when you started to see those vast institutions warehousing people.

I think if you could work with the old Eglantine Asylum's original positive history and appreciate it for what the architects intended, not what the 19th century owners used it for, we might be able to at least see it for what it should have been. It was designed and built to be a place of healing, even if its later history was rather different.

It's also an extremely important example of Cork and Irish design, architecture and craftsmanship.

boardsuser1

Thomas Gould's summing up of this is disturbing me.

Tony Fitzgerald is just someone who loves the camera.

http://www.tv3.ie/news_sub_page.php?video_id=128529&locID=1.2.883

BlinkingLights

Given that the building is currently owned by a state agency, I would have my doubts that anyone was concerned about getting around preservation orders. Act of vandalism / someone lighting a fire inside and unintentionally causing it seems most likely.

I would worry though that they will still not find a developer as the scale of the building is so large and the interior (at least from what I've seen online) seems to be very unsuited to any modern use.

The only thing I could think it could perhaps be redeveloped into is a hotel.

shamrock55

That building has a shocking past that you wouldn't see in a horror movie,it should have been knocked 50yrs ago

Spanish Eyes

I'm not from Cork. Is it the red bricked building in this map?

What a fab location. Is the grey building redeveloped now?

Such a waste of a building and a site. Why was it left for so long.

Thanks for the info Corkies!

https://www.google.ie/maps/@51.8933339,-8.5109198,3a,75y,7.19h,97.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK0i6fhPjorjnjUBHoj9fGA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

refusetolose

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I'm not from Cork. Is it the red bricked building in this map?

yes thats it, the grey one is apartments now

Spanish Eyes

refusetolose wrote: »

yes thats it, the grey one is apartments now

Thanks,

It is in a wonderful location isn't it. I am baffled as to why it was left to rot for so long. Or why it wasn't sold on or levelled and redeveloped.

The grey building looks like a hospital or institution too, what was it do you know? Lovely building too, so big!, And looks great from the opposite side of the river. Good to see it has been preserved, it looks fab.

boardsuser1

refusetolose wrote: »

yes thats it, the grey one is apartments now

And even that isn't fully renovated due to arson in 2010.

Roger Hassenforder

pwurple wrote: »

Every single piece of built heritage in this country is subject to indifference, or worse, blocking of development. Vernon Mount house put through numerous planning submissions which were all rejected, until the owner gave up. Look at George Boole's house. The thing f-ing collapsed, and they only refurbed when there was international coverage with Boole 200.

It's our history, our heritage, erasing it does nothing except appease those who want to stick their heads in the sand and pretend it never happened. Repeating exactly what was done at the time.

Hide it, cover it up, pretend it didn't happen.

Sound familiar?

It's a revolting attitude.

not sure which Mount Vernon you're referring to but the one in Douglas has had one application for a hotel which was refused, in 1998, before the Council stepped in to try and preserve it, after their approaches to the owner to assist in its preservation were rebuffed. Was later burned down...
link (interesting little story of the romantic intentions of one owner included!)

we've losing far more important (cultural and environmental) heritage than a few dilapidated and (in the case of Boole) not spectacularly architecturally significant buildings. E2.5 million to renovate before handing it over to UCC One of the richest institutions in the country? for a visitors centre? Be interesting to see how many they get for that buck, just to pander to a few UCC academics...

Its not a case of " Hide it, cover it up, pretend it didn't happen. ".
If its not being developed as either an amenity or another commercial/residential development, nationalise the thing, and open it up to the public if there is sufficient public interest. Have a look at Doneraile park: .http://www.heritageireland.ie/en/south-west/donerailewildlifepark/
short money, but getting there.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Terrible to see something get attacked by arson (if the case), but a derelict building (with a less than impressive history) burnt down; nobody died.
Some going way over the top on this.
If these type of buildings aren't a concern for someone, then that's up to them. Trying to belittle a lack of interest in someone's else's passion; pathetic.

boardsuser1

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Terrible to see something get attacked by arson (if the case), but a derelict building (with a less than impressive history) burnt down; nobody died.
Some going way over the top on this.
If these type of buildings aren't a concern for someone, then that's up to them. Trying to belittle a lack of interest in someone's else's passion; pathetic.

That building is well known across Ireland, and in some cases beyond.

I for one have been a keen follower of it and its history for the last 25 years since i first discovered it existed (i was a very young boy then).

refusetolose

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Thanks,

It is in a wonderful location isn't it. I am baffled as to why it was left to rot for so long. Or why it wasn't sold on or levelled and redeveloped.

The grey building looks like a hospital or institution too, what was it do you know? Lovely building too, so big!, And looks great from the opposite side of the river. Good to see it has been preserved, it looks fab.

the grey building was St Anne’s Mental Asylum and is said to be the longest building in Ireland

the red building st kevins

plenty of stuff online about these places

boardsuser1

refusetolose wrote: »

the grey building was St Anne’s Mental Asylum and is said to be the longest building in Ireland

the red building st kevins

plenty of stuff online about these places

The grey building was Our Lady's Hospital, now known as Atkins Hall.

The building that was on fire last night is indeed St Kevin's

St Anne's is now known as Carraig Mor today and is situated further up the campus surrounded by the pitch and putt course.

I had a relative in both St Anne's and St Kevin's

Plus i lived directly across from St Anne's for 3 years and we were witnessing patients coming over to our place of residence regularly messing around with the order for the milkman.

I now live 400 yards from these buildings today.
https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Prospect+Lodge,+Shanakiel+Rd,+Sunday's+Well,+Cork/@51.9001218,-8.5065721,3a,75y,52.44h,72.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVNTTqF2OWp-ca0rcYuF2tA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x48449036aa1f38d9:0x9c61d956c2e999cf!8m2!3d51.9001576!4d-8.5061976

kub

refusetolose wrote:

the grey building was St Anne’s Mental Asylum and is said to be the longest building in Ireland

You are kind of correct, the longest building in Ireland was St Anne's joined up with St Kevin's by a corridor.
Therefore the 2 buildings and corridor combined made it the longest building in the country.

boardsuser1

kub wrote: »

You are kind of correct, the longest building in Ireland was St Anne's joined up with St Kevin's by a corridor.
Therefore the 2 buildings and corridor combined made it the longest building in the country.

That tunnel is in some state, the amount of people who get the names of the buildings wrong is very common i've noticed.

boardsuser1

The tunnel as of yesterday evening

Spanish Eyes

It is awfully sad to think that such huge (long) buildings would have been required for those with special needs back in the day.

Such history. Sad and all as it was.

So many asylums and in such lovely buildings (today), but I guess they were not so good back then.

But it is part of our collective history, and there are many such buildings all around the country too. All of which have the obligatory chapel attached.

Avatar MIA

Would love to see some pics of the hospital back when it was functioning including the corridor. 2002 isn't that long ago.