Bizarre sloping floor - Upper level

antonymous

My GF is dead set on a property. Upon inspection, I noticed the upper floor had some bizarre sloping issues. Kind of hard to explain but I'll do my best.

Its most noticeable in the box room, so, up the stairs, and to the front of the house.

The floor slants upwards towards the front of the house at a significant angle, easily 20-30 degrees. Literally feels like you're walking up a disabled ramp when going into the room.

Some of the other upper level floors are somewhat sloped too, but by far the box room is most noticeable.

I was thinking subsidence, but the house was built in the early 90's, not too old. I was also thinking bowed or warped joists, but the slope is way too uniform. If the joists were bowed then it would be undulating, not uniform.

Anyway, I've been in many houses in many years and never seen anything quite like it.

Thoughts?

The_Conductor

antonymous wrote: »

Thoughts?

What you're saying sounds bizarre- and regardless of whether the seller has an explanation for it, or not, you *need* to get a proper structural survey done which at least provides an educated reason for the phenomenon you're describing.

Also- just because a property was built in the 90s (or indeed at any given time)- is not an insurance against subsidence.

A good structural survey will probably cost you a couple of hundred quid- but it'll be money well spent in the long run.

antonymous

The_Conductor wrote: »

What you're saying sounds bizarre- and regardless of whether the seller has an explanation for it, or not, you *need* to get a proper structural survey done which at least provides an educated reason for the phenomenon you're describing.

Also- just because a property was built in the 90s (or indeed at any given time)- is not an insurance against subsidence.

A good structural survey will probably cost you a couple of hundred quid- but it'll be money well spent in the long run.

Structural survey is planned upon sale agreed. We already have a quote for it and I'm urging her to get it done before even making an offer. I've just been wracking my brain for the last week or so trying to figure out what may be causing this prior to that all kicking off.

cruizer101

I'd definitely be asking the seller about it. By the way I very much doubt it is anywhere near 30 degrees, human are very bad at judging the angle of surfaces they are on. At 30 degrees if the room was say 8 foot long it would have risen 4 foot, thats nearly half the height of the room. Even at 15 degrees it would be around 2 foot enough that a tall person would bang there head at one end of the room.

Best thing to do is ask though, they must have some sort of explanation.

The_Conductor

antonymous wrote: »

Structural survey is planned upon sale agreed. We already have a quote for it and I'm urging her to get it done before even making an offer. I've just been wracking my brain for the last week or so trying to figure out what may be causing this prior to that all kicking off.

Get the structural survey done *now*- not after you go sale agreed.
I'm sorry- you're going to buy something with an obvious anomoly- which you've no idea of the nature of- and you're only planning on surveying it *after* you go sale agreed?

Honestly- I'd suggest you get someone who can deal with the entire transaction unemotionally- to take over on your behalf- you seem to be vested in this property- despite not having a clue what the problem is...........

The_Conductor

cruizer101 wrote: »

I'd definitely be asking the seller about it. By the way I very much doubt it is anywhere near 30 degrees, human are very bad at judging the angle of surfaces they are on. At 30 degrees if the room was say 8 foot long it would have risen 4 foot, thats nearly half the height of the room. Even at 15 degrees it would be around 2 foot enough that a tall person would bang there head at one end of the room.

Best thing to do is ask though, they must have some sort of explanation.

Agree- 30 degrees is a not insignificant hill.........

Lots of folk have laser calipers/relascopes in their tool kits- which will give you a reasonable idea of the actual degree of slope (make sure you know how to use it rather than simply borrowing one).

Caliden

The_Conductor wrote: »

Get the structural survey done *now*- not after you go sale agreed.
I'm sorry- you're going to buy something with an obvious anomoly- which you've no idea of the nature of- and you're only planning on surveying it *after* you go sale agreed?

Honestly- I'd suggest you get someone who can deal with the entire transaction unemotionally- to take over on your behalf- you seem to be vested in this property- despite not having a clue what the problem is...........

Why spend a couple of hundred euro on a property that you may not even have the winning bid on?

Seems like a waste of money to pay for a survey before going sale agreed. That way if there is an issue you can either renegotiate the price or walk away.

antonymous

Caliden wrote: »

Why spend a couple of hundred euro on a property that you may not even have the winning bid on?

Seems like a waste of money to pay for a survey before going sale agreed. That way if there is an issue you can either renegotiate the price or walk away.

Exactly...

antonymous

The_Conductor wrote: »

Get the structural survey done *now*- not after you go sale agreed.
I'm sorry- you're going to buy something with an obvious anomoly- which you've no idea of the nature of- and you're only planning on surveying it *after* you go sale agreed?

Honestly- I'd suggest you get someone who can deal with the entire transaction unemotionally- to take over on your behalf- you seem to be vested in this property- despite not having a clue what the problem is...........

Are you kidding me? You should read your own post. Completely ridiculous behaviour, and a mod to boot.

Asked a simple question. No need for your passive aggressive BS frankly

Mod Note
If you have an issue with a post use the report post feature.

o1s1n

Sounds like it almost makes the box room unusable. Why would you want to buy a house with such a strange anomaly?

If you ever need to sell it in the future, this may put a lot of prospective buyers off.

Alun

You can get a number of apps for your smartphone that will give a good idea of the actual slope angle. Won't be anywhere near 30 degrees though I'd be willing to bet.

antonymous

o1s1n wrote: »

Sounds like it almost makes the box room unusable. Why would you want to buy a house with such a strange anomaly?

If you ever need to sell it in the future, this may put a lot of prospective buyers off.

Exactly, that's why I'm trying to encourage her to think long and hard about making an offer. She was on the verge of making one before I inspected it with her and drew her attention to it.

Melodeon

The_Conductor wrote: »

Agree- 30 degrees is a not insignificant hill.........

Lots of folk have laser calipers/relascopes in their tool kits- which will give you a reasonable idea of the actual degree of slope (make sure you know how to use it rather than simply borrowing one).

There are plenty of free smart phone 'spirit level' apps that would be plenty good enough for getting a ballpark measurement on this slope.

Rew

Is there a bathroom at the bottom end of the slope, possibly some flooding from it that damaged the floors perviously.

DamoKen

The_Conductor wrote: »

Get the structural survey done *now*- not after you go sale agreed.
I'm sorry- you're going to buy something with an obvious anomoly- which you've no idea of the nature of- and you're only planning on surveying it *after* you go sale agreed?

Honestly- I'd suggest you get someone who can deal with the entire transaction unemotionally- to take over on your behalf- you seem to be vested in this property- despite not having a clue what the problem is...........

We did a survey on a property, cost just under 1K. We did it after we went sale agreed but our offer was dependent on the survey. Why would you spend a lot of money on an inspection before you know if you're even in with a chance of getting the house?

If you go sale agreed and the survey shows it's a dud you're under no obligation to buy, in fact in all likelihood a bank would refuse a mortgage anyway based on a bad survey.

cruizer101

Whatever about a survey just ask the seller or estate agent whats the story with the big slope in the room and depending on their answer look furtehr into it. To be honest I'm baffled as to how this issue wouldn't be raised during a viewing

The_Conductor

I was suggesting getting it done now- as the OP's girlfriend seems so vested in the property- it doesn't normally cost a grand to get a survey done (300-400 +vat isn't unusual)- but if they are going to spend time effort and money in chasing *this* property- as seems to be the case- it would make a lot more sense to pursue it with their eyes wide open.

Key to my advice- was the OP's assertion that his girlfriend is emotionally vested in the property- which in my experience means they are liable to make irrational decisions while chasing it.

In the current market, depending entirely on where the property is located- the seller could just as easily tell them to take a hike if they go sale agreed and they try to bargain down the offered price, on the basis of a survey. We've all seen it happen.

The solution from the UK- where there used to be a requirement for sellers to get an independent survey done- and supply the survey to all prospective purchasers- would remedy a situation such as this- however, in my own personal experience- getting the survey done as early as possible- if one of the couple are emotionally charged about a particular property- can be an eye opener and very helpful.

Perhaps I could have phrased my above post a little more delicately- however, that is what I had intended.

Personally- I've walked away from properties suffering from subsidence, an undeclared sewage tank, pyrite and other issues- that I'd have spent time and effort on otherwise (and in one case- this was after my partner made an offer on a lovely looking property in an excellent location- that would have been a complete albatros, had we proceeded with the purchase.

The OP has said his GF is 'deadset' on the property- i.e. they are not going to see that which is staring them in the face. This is what the OP has to counter. A structural survey doesn't normally cost a grand- but even if it did- if it proved to the OP's girlfriend that the property she was 'deadset' on was a runner or not- it would be money well spent.

The whole key to buying a property- is not to get emotionally attached to the property, to try and look at it as objectively as possible. The OP's GF has lost any objectivity.

DamoKen

The_Conductor wrote: »

I was suggesting getting it done now- as the OP's girlfriend seems so vested in the property- it doesn't normally cost a grand to get a survey done (300-400 +vat isn't unusual)- but if they are going to spend time effort and money in chasing *this* property- as seems to be the case- it would make a lot more sense to pursue it with their eyes wide open.

Key to my advice- was the OP's assertion that his girlfriend is emotionally vested in the property- which in my experience means they are liable to make irrational decisions while chasing it.

In the current market, depending entirely on where the property is located- the seller could just as easily tell them to take a hike if they go sale agreed and they try to bargain down the offered price, on the basis of a survey. We've all seen it happen.

The solution from the UK- where there used to be a requirement for sellers to get an independent survey done- and supply the survey to all prospective purchasers- would remedy a situation such as this- however, in my own personal experience- getting the survey done as early as possible- if one of the couple are emotionally charged about a particular property- can be an eye opener and very helpful.

Perhaps I could have phrased my above post a little more delicately- however, that is what I had intended.

Personally- I've walked away from properties suffering from subsidence, an undeclared sewage tank, pyrite and other issues- that I'd have spent time and effort on otherwise (and in one case- this was after my partner made an offer on a lovely looking property in an excellent location- that would have been a complete albatros, had we proceeded with the purchase.

The OP has said his GF is 'deadset' on the property- i.e. they are not going to see that which is staring them in the face. This is what the OP has to counter. A structural survey doesn't normally cost a grand- but even if it did- if it proved to the OP's girlfriend that the property she was 'deadset' on was a runner or not- it would be money well spent.

The whole key to buying a property- is not to get emotionally attached to the property, to try and look at it as objectively as possible. The OP's GF has lost any objectivity.

Agree with most of this and to be fair property we got surveyed had a lot of outbuildings which increased costs.

Still not sure though if I'd be happy fronting 300-400 for each place I'd be interested in before making an offer. Only did that once before and that was due to the property going to auction so normal route didn't apply.

As far as deadset on a house despite an obvious and unexplained problem that would ring alarm bells. In this case maybe if a bubble needs bursting a survey done before going any further is the wisest course of action. Before that though might be an idea as already suggested to just ask why it's like that.

relax carry on

Oddly similar issue here OP. But we bought the house. There was a slope in one part of the main bedroom upstairs. House is a semi detached 30 years old and passed out engineers survey. We were actually bidding against the county council who wouldn't have bid without having their own engineers survey it.
Had a builder take up the new laminate floor and it turned out the original chipboard or whatever it was had warped over the years and the owners just put the new laminate flooring over it. Didnt cost too much to fix but I've noticed it elsewhere upstairs so will have to get him back again.

tabby aspreme

Op is there a similar slope on the corresponding downstairs ceilings.
If someone is looking at a house bring a ball and put it on the floors to see how level the floors are 😜 , the EA will love you

The_Conductor

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Op is there a similar slope on the corresponding downstairs ceilings.
If someone is looking at a house bring a ball and put it on the floors to see how level the floors are �� , the EA will love you

Spirit level and a folding ladder for the ceiling- your idea of a ball for the floors.
If you know someone with a laser relascope- even better.

antonymous

relax carry on wrote: »

Oddly similar issue here OP. But we bought the house. There was a slope in one part of the main bedroom upstairs. House is a semi detached 30 years old and passed out engineers survey. We were actually bidding against the county council who wouldn't have bid without having their own engineers survey it.
Had a builder take up the new laminate floor and it turned out the original chipboard or whatever it was had warped over the years and the owners just put the new laminate flooring over it. Didnt cost too much to fix but I've noticed it elsewhere upstairs so will have to get him back again.

Interesting. Was it a uniform slope though or undulating?

antonymous

DamoKen wrote: »

Agree with most of this and to be fair property we got surveyed had a lot of outbuildings which increased costs.

Still not sure though if I'd be happy fronting 300-400 for each place I'd be interested in before making an offer. Only did that once before and that was due to the property going to auction so normal route didn't apply.

As far as deadset on a house despite an obvious and unexplained problem that would ring alarm bells. In this case maybe if a bubble needs bursting a survey done before going any further is the wisest course of action. Before that though might be an idea as already suggested to just ask why it's like that.

We're quoted 500 for the survey

Alkers

antonymous wrote:

We're quoted 500 for the survey

Is this a surveyors inspection or a structural engineers? All a surveyor will tell you is to get a structural engineer to have a look so that's what I'd be doing from the get go. I would wait till sale agreed though, the engineer may even need to do some opening up to have a look, this will never be agreed to unless you're sale agreed.

Could this be a symptom of pyrite?

Samuel T. Cogley

Deleted User wrote: »

Could this be a symptom of pyrite?

Doubtful without associated cracking and doors not closing etc. I expect it's going to be some odd arrangement with something being added, or damaged repaired. I remember a similar situation in a house I was looking at in D8. It was €100K less than the house down the street, although the second property was overpriced but immaculately presented.

Survey, no survey, sale agreed or not, keep looking - many sales fall through at least once. Personally I would be getting the survey done now, purely on the basis of time if there is an issue like this. The bidding process could take weeks and then the survey is done and there is a massive issue. That timescale could be a 2% increase in price in Dublin.

the_syco

Caliden wrote: »

Why spend a couple of hundred euro on a property that you may not even have the winning bid on?

Until the contracts are signed by both parties, you don't have the house. By which time it's too late to negotiate.

Heck, if it's as bad as the OP says, they may give the OP the contracts to sign ASAP.

bmwguy

OP a 45 degree slope would mean that the floor at the higher end of the room would be the same height as the ceiling if the room was 8 foot from front to back so it's definitely not anything like 30 degrees.

30 degrees would mean floor to ceiling was less than 4 foot at highest point.

A couple of degrees is what you are dealing with, which would still be very noticeable but it's very bizarre anyway what you describe and doesn't sound right.

What would you estimate is the difference in ceiling height from front of room and back of room.

Samuel T. Cogley

I love the fact that everyone is Pythagoras all of a sudden :pac:

wordofwarning

DamoKen wrote: »

Agree with most of this and to be fair property we got surveyed had a lot of outbuildings which increased costs.

Still not sure though if I'd be happy fronting 300-400 for each place I'd be interested in before making an offer. Only did that once before and that was due to the property going to auction so normal route didn't apply.

As far as deadset on a house despite an obvious and unexplained problem that would ring alarm bells. In this case maybe if a bubble needs bursting a survey done before going any further is the wisest course of action. Before that though might be an idea as already suggested to just ask why it's like that.

I agree with what you are saying. But this house has potentially a serious issue. There is no point with OP wasting time until it goes sale agreed to get a surveyor in to say the needs X amount spent to make it normal, when OP has not factored this into their bid

You don't need a survey during bidding for a majority of homes. But this house seems like it needs it

listermint

I personally wouldn't have gone back for a second viewing