Next Gen Freesat?

akasudonim

@Pablo - really appreciate the detail. Johnboy too, thanks. think I'm going to need to do some more research, esp around tvheadend (didn't know what bouquests were 10 mins ago). Time is my enemy though. I have very little.
So do appreciate if you don't mind helping with dumb questions over time!

PabloAndRoy

kaisersose77 wrote: »

Expensive but the hdhomerun box would be a dvb-t equivalent. I'm using it along with the digibit r1. Running ubuntu with tvheadend as a virtual server on windows 10 and so only option was network tuners. For saorview anyways we are not going to need anymore than the two tuners the hdhomerun has.

In terms of nextgen freesat, as much as i hated plex in the past i'm a big fan of fancy tv guides (posters etc) which plex is now offering. Have tvheadend (with saorview and freesat) connected to plex and have all free to air channels (apart from itv 1 as you have to pick a tvguide source in plex, sky ireland etc and havent found one that covers all channels, closest i've found is missing itv 1). Plex adds all recordings to library so they show up with posters etc so looks well. In terms of live tv only a few devices support it at the moment (think android tv and ios).

tvheadend can export its EPG via XMLTV, so maybe you could use that as a source ?

PabloAndRoy

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Kore phone app, or use Kodi's web interface from any device on your network with a browser. I was considering getting an IR receiver set up, but didn't bother in the end.

IMHO a physical remote is a lot better than Kore. Kore is very handy for "send text to Kodi" though

For RPis here is a cracking guide as to how to get lirc running.
http://www.solihull-web-design.com/blog/how-setup-lirc-gpio-ir-remote-control-openelec-xbmckodi-raspberry-pi-1-and-2

I constantly reference that when i need to set up a new remote control. The great thing about lirc is that you can add as many remotes as you like to the lircd.conf file. Recently I found some pretty good one4all remote controls in Tesco for a fiver. I bought 4, set up the lircd.conf and copied that across all my devices .. all remotes work on all machines. I then mapped the individual power buttons to the TV power and the AV button to the TV source. I then told lirc that all of those power IR codes mean Stop. Very handy.

There is an addon for Kodi called KeymapEditor which allows you to map remote control keys to Kodi functions. I have Red->TV CHannels, Blue->FullScreen video and a few more.

My future plan is to use Ansible and cron to keep all of these scripts, skin settings and addon settings, synced across all my client devices. Change something on one and it changes on all the client devices.

I should get out more

kaisersose77

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yeah unfortunately I have an immediate requirement for a third tuner so am looking to build a box with four USB DVB-T dongles to cover my needs.

Does tvheadend see the tuners in the hdhomerun?
They are listed in tvheadend along with the Digibit tuners?

Yes tvheadend automatically detects hdhomerun as if it was a satip device. Why four dvb-t tuners? Do you get Freeview channels?

kaisersose77

PabloAndRoy wrote: »

tvheadend can export its EPG via XMLTV, so maybe you could use that as a source ?

Yes the xmltv can be fed into plex but would loose the metadata/posters i think.

Johnboy1951

kaisersose77 wrote: »

Yes tvheadend automatically detects hdhomerun as if it was a satip device. Why four dvb-t tuners? Do you get Freeview channels?

I have an Edision HDMI>DVB-T device for which I need the third tuner.

As they are so cheap (USB Dongles) I hope to have a fourth available for any future need.

I don't know how well those tuners will work in the long term, but it costs little to find out.

tsue921i8wljb3

Looks like there are plans at least for such a service. Manufacturers to be on board by Autumn hopefully.

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2017/08/31/freesat-rfp-to-include-hbbtv-and-uhd/

The Cush

Kaylani Gorgeous Orate wrote: »

Looks like there are plans at least for such a service. Manufacturers to be on board by Autumn hopefully.

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2017/08/31/freesat-rfp-to-include-hbbtv-and-uhd/

I wonder if the new specification includes SkyQ wideband LNB and dSCR compatibility?

tsue921i8wljb3

The Cush wrote: »

I wonder if the new specification includes SkyQ wideband LNB and dSCR compatibility?

It would make sense to include it to capture customers that would leave Sky's platform.

The Cush

Some extra information from http://www.digitaltveurope.net/737772/freesat-plans-ultra-hd-next-generation-stb-upgrade/

The free-to-air UK satellite operator said it is seeking proposals for its next generation consumer product and aims to announce manufacturing partners in the autumn, with a view to bringing the set-top box to market “as soon as possible”.

The platform provider said that the new devices should be ultra high definition-ready for encrypted broadcast and IP; should offer “fast channel change”; and support HBBTV 2.0.1 applications.

Other key features should include: in-home multiscreen streaming to allow users to watch TV across multiple set-top-boxes in the home; and additional tuners to help customers plan their recordings and avoid programme clashes.

A number of features have been defined which interested manufacturers will have to meet:

•An ultra-high-definition ready device for encrypted broadcast and IP to meet the consumer demand for UHD
•In-home multiscreen streaming allowing users to watch TV across multiple set-top-boxes in the home
•Additional tuners to help customers plan their recordings and avoid programme clashes
•Fast channel change for better usability
•Supports HBBTV 2.0.1 applications

Johnboy1951

Maybe they will catch up with what people (who can set up their own system) have been doing for years.

Probably by the time they try they will be far behind existing technology yet again ......

The Cush

Possible next generation Freesat box from Vestel - http://vestel.co.uk/en/consumer-electronics/set-top-box/hd-dvb-s2/

HD DVB-S2

Our DVB-S/S2 product portfolio includes an wide range of entry level, high performance and hybrid STBs featuring the most secure embedded CAS and DRM technologies and connectivity capabilites.

General Features

Full HD HEVC (H.265) and / or MPEG4 (H.264) Decoding
Fullband Capture & Multi-tuner support
Built-in hard-drive options
Small Form Factor
Embedded CAS
HTML5 based applications
CI+
Enhanced Media Player with wide range of codec support
SW Update via OAD (Over Air Download - DVB-SSU compliant) or USB
HDMI 1.4 with HDCP 1.2, up to 1080p60 resolution support
ErP Regulation compliant eco-design; Standby < 0.5W
10/100 Fast Ethernet Support
802.11b/g/n or ac Wi-Fi support.
HBB TV
VoD & Catch-up TV applications.
Smart TV portal ready

The Cush

This was posted over in the Saorview Connect thread earlier, Matthew Huntington, Chief Technology Officer at Freesat on the RFP issued recently for its next generation Freesat box. Manufacturing partners are expected to be announced this autumn.

https://www.ibc.org/delivery/building-a-next-generation-set-top-box/2384.article

What we need in our next set-top box
4 October 2017

From faster channel change to in-home streaming, Freesat’s next set-top box will be equipped with the latest technology to address the most pressing consumer demands, says Matthew Huntington.

Freesat is all abuzz right now – we’ve just issued the RFP for a new set-top box for our next generation of consumer product.

We think this will give manufacturers a big opportunity to develop a new range of innovative set-top boxes at scale, for use by Freesat’s growing base of subscription-free satellite TV viewers across the UK.

We’ve based the RFP firmly on what consumers have been telling us they want, together with detailed analysis of trends in the market, and then further surveys and studies of consumers. We’re really excited that the process is now underway for creating our next generation box – which will allow us to further develop our offer of brilliant subscription free-content as well as the latest players and pay-as-you-go services.

The product requirements have been based on an open technical spec set by the Free TV Alliance, which is helping to create common standards for free-to-view satellite TV services and technologies across Europe. Using this spec underlines, of course, Freesat’s ongoing commitment to continue expanding beyond the UK, through our collaboration with the Free TV Alliance, and partnerships with international TV companies through our Metaphor business.

A key requirement for our new box is that it be UHD-ready and enabled for encrypted broadcast and IP. Consumer interest in UHD is strong, as can be seen from growing sales of UHD televisions. We think that while HD services have been broadcast free-to-air in the UK, free-to-view UHD services will require some form of content protection – so we’re asking both RFP respondents and content security providers for input into what’s needed.

We’re also asking RFP respondents to enable our next box for in-home multiscreen streaming, so consumers can watch TV across multiple set-top boxes in the home as easily as possible. We think that enabling service distribution within the home over IP and Wi-Fi will be an improvement over needing connectivity from each TV to the satellite dish.

Additional tuners is another requirement for our new box. We want to support in-home streaming while still delivering the PVR experience which consumers enjoy today, but this will require extra tuners so more TV channels can be processed by the STB at once.

Also, there is growing consumer demand to record more than two shows at once, and we want to cater for this. Looking at the market, the number of tuners provided by operators in the UK has been growing as PVR functionality has become more widely used.

We also want our new box to allow faster channel change, as we think consumers would welcome this improvement to usability. Speed of channel change on digital TV is a recognised challenge, but one advantage of increasing the number of tuners for recordings is that they can also be used for other purposes, such as improving channel change speed.

A further requirement for our new box is that we want it to support HbbTV 2.0.1 applications – as across Europe and in the UK the key standard for on-demand and catch-up application is HbbTV. Using HbbTV will support greater interoperability of applications across devices, particularly for more complex areas of integration such as digital rights management, while opening up new service opportunities such as addressable advertising.

Taken together these requirements are very much about creating a new set-top box that very much has the customer in mind, as we continue to bring UK audiences the best subscription-free TV service and a fantastic alternative to pay TV. We’re expecting to announce manufacturing partners in the autumn, with a view to bringing our next generation set top box to market as soon as possible.

Johnboy1951

Looking good ....... I wonder how many tuners it will include.
They mention multi-use and at least two channel recording.

So a minimum of 4 tuners but hopefully 8, would seem to be the sweet spot.
If the tuners are Unicable II compatible that would be even better, meaning one cable from LNB.

With the tuners as SAT>IP and made available on the LAN, even better.

.... now if it had a couple of DVB-T2 tuners that could be added ...... we would have what the 'connect' should have been

The Cush

I'm guessing it'll be compatible with Sky's wbLNB and dSCR technology to allow easy interchanging if required. Don't know about SAT>IP.

There was a Freesat presentation on "Wideband, the single cable and channel stacking" at the CAI's Evolving Connectivity earlier this year. Unfortunately the presentation is locked behind the members paywall.

Tigerandahalf

Any further info on this.
I presume we will see a new box later in 2018.

The Cush

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Any further info on this.
I presume we will see a new box later in 2018.

Haven't seen any more recent info, awaiting an announcement from them about manufacturing partners. Possibly waiting on the recent publication of the DTG's D-Book 10 before final proposals were submitted by the manufacturers.

The Cush

Announced at IBC2018 in Amsterdam today, almost 12 months since Freesat issued their request for proposals (RPF) for the next generation Freesat receiver, they have partnered with ARRIS to launch the new 4K UHD/HDR box in 2019.

Four versions of the box will be available: 500GB, 1TB and 2TB hard drive options for DVR, plus one option without a hard drive

https://www.freesat.co.uk/news/freesat-selects-arris-partner-launch-generation-3-set-top-box/
http://www.arris.com/arriseverywhere/2018/09/freesat-selects-arris-as-partner-to-launch-generation-3-set-top-box/

Tigerandahalf

I find the need for encryption for 4k to be interesting. I wonder will we see subscription/ pay per view services like BT sports, eir sports, eleven sports, maybe even sky sports on the platform.

With sky going down the streaming route I wonder where is the point where they offer their services solely through streaming. Afterall they have no obligation to carry their content on a satellite platform.
E.g. I see BT box office are pay per view on BT, Sky and Virgin in the UK for the Canelo Golovkin fight. No reason for someone on freesat not to have access to it.
The same with eir/premier sports, it would be so handy to have it on a freesat box.

I wonder also will the box offer streaming of the channel from the epg?

Hotblack Desiato

Noooooo

Once Freesat starts accepting encryption, it ain't Freesat any more.

Before you know it it'll be a pale shadow of its former self and shag all will be left FTA

Tigerandahalf

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Noooooo

Once Freesat starts accepting encryption, it ain't Freesat any more.

Before you know it it'll be a pale shadow of its former self and shag all will be left FTA

I think it will only add to freesat and entice people to it as less need for other boxes/devices. It would also add competition to sky for companies like eleven sports who might want to put their content on satellite.

Harry Palmr

Freesat will be free that is it's whole model. It cannot be a pay platform under its setup. Add-ons are just that.

Tigerandahalf

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Freesat will be free that is it's whole model. It cannot be a pay platform under its setup. Add-ons are just that.

It is already a mix of free and subscription apps. I don't see why they can't add pay channels. You don't have to pay for them but it would be great to have the option.

Harry Palmr

They won;t add pay channels, material you IP is an add-on by it's very nature. I can't get any of that stuff with my G1 Manhattan box for example as far as I know (not that interested), but I can get the free stuff

icdg

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Noooooo

Once Freesat starts accepting encryption, it ain't Freesat any more.

Before you know it it'll be a pale shadow of its former self and shag all will be left FTA

The whole reason it exists in the first place is that the U.K. terrestrial channels were sick of paying Sky for access to their conditional access system. Now unless they’re going to develop their own prioprietary one (which means paying twice if they want the same content on Sky) then they’re going cap in hand back to Sky?

Capt'n Midnight

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Freesat will be free that is it's whole model. It cannot be a pay platform under its setup. Add-ons are just that.

I could see it going FTV for new services rather than FTA, in the sense that you'd only watch 4K using a genuine Freesat box. SD and existing HD could stay FTA for backwards compatibility.

It could lead to future savings on rights costs, and also allow Freesat to sell third party content or "top-up" TV that isn't broadcast. If the boxes phone home then you get accurate viewership figures that you don't get with FTA.


In Italy Tivusat is FTV. Like Saorview Connect the tech is being done by the same people who do Freesat.

Anyone with an Italian PPS can buy a FTV card and get the channels on the Hotbird footprint. Buts thanks to a loophole you can only purchase a Tivusat card with dedicated hardware like a receiver or CAM.

In Ireland Saorsat gets around the footprint problem by using a tiny one and blocking a certain programs.

Sam Russell

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I could see it going FTV for new services rather than FTA, in the sense that you'd only watch 4K using a genuine Freesat box. SD and existing HD could stay FTA for backwards compatibility.

It could lead to future savings on rights costs, and also allow Freesat to sell third party content or "top-up" TV that isn't broadcast. If the boxes phone home then you get accurate viewership figures that you don't get with FTA.


In Italy Tivusat is FTV. Like Saorview Connect the tech is being done by the same people who do Freesat.

Anyone with an Italian PPS can buy a FTV card and get the channels on the Hotbird footprint. Buts thanks to a loophole you can only purchase a Tivusat card with dedicated hardware like a receiver or CAM.

In Ireland Saorsat gets around the footprint problem by using a tiny one and blocking a certain programs.

I think this is what is behind the Saorview Connect box. RTE would like accurate figures on viewers, and the Soarview ID is to get that.

Tigerandahalf

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think this is what is behind the Saorview Connect box. RTE would like accurate figures on viewers, and the Soarview ID is to get that.

It is all about targeted ads now. To use the UKTV Player you have to create an id, DOB and gender included. They are trying to get ad revenue back from the likes of facebook etc. I don't mind it tbh as I see ads for stuff I am interested in, rather than silly celebrity crap.

The Cush

I thought this had died a death as we haven't heard anything about this next generation Freesat box from Arris since it was announced at IBC2018 last year. Added to that Arris was acquired by CommScope in April this year, the acquisition was announced two months after the Freesat announcement at IBC2018.

Then last Friday this was announced - DOTSCREEN Selected to Develop Freesat's TV User Interface on New Generation Arris Set-top Box

PARIS, Sept. 13, 2019 /PRNewswire/ -- DOTSCREEN, the multi-screen video applications & UI specialist, today announced its selection by Freesat as the developer of the operator's User Interface for its next HbbTV compliant set-top box.

Headquartered in Paris, DOTSCREEN is one of the most experienced developer of HbbTV applications. The company has already been working for Freenet TV in Germany and Fransat in France, two other main European satellite operators using the HbbTV technology. Other HbbTV customers of DOTSCREEN include TF1 and France Télévisions in France, SVT in Sweden, ERT in Greece as well as France 24 in Europe.

Chandan Rajah, Director of Technology at Freesat said, "Our collaboration with DOTSCREEN has turned into a burgeoning partnership and they have been instrumental in the success of our Generation 3 product offering. We are thankful to them for pulling out all the stops and displaying an uncompromising sense of professionalism and dedication to deliver on time, under immense pressure. As Freesat grows and scales, we see DOTSCREEN as a key partner to our success."

About DOTSCREEN:
DOTSCREEN designs and develops multi-screen applications & UI (available on smart TV, TV set-top boxes, game consoles, smartphones, tablets, smartwatches, connected refrigerators, etc.) for major media, telecommunication and electronics companies (Disney, HBO, ESPN, Fox, Turner, CBS, Orange, Vodafone, Telefonica, Freenet, TF1, Beinsports, Mediaset...). The company also licenses its own, off-the-shelf UI & applications (TV Everywhere, VOD/SVOD, EPG, weather, radio, etc.).
https://dotscreen.com

About FREESAT:
Freesat is the UK's subscription-free satellite television platform, offering brilliant free recordable TV, together with the latest streaming services, including catch-up and pay-as-you-go. First and foremost, we're about giving our viewers content, choice and amazing value. But we're also innovative, ambitious and agile, whether that's adding new services on our platform, finding new ways to help the channels that work with us, or exporting our technology to broadcasters in new territories. We invest our profits back into the business, helping to maintain a great user experience for all our customers.
Established in 2007 by the BBC and ITV, Freesat reaches 2 million homes each week and is available via TV and set-top box. Our customers have access to a wide range of channels providing entertainment, news, and children's programming and on-demand and catch-up favourites such as BBC iPlayer, ITV Hub, YouTube and Netflix.
www.freesat.co.uk

SOURCE DOTSCREEN

Also this post over on DS

Originally posted by lovinthetelly

An update/sneak preview from IBC 2019:



The new G3 boxes appear to be all-black versions of Arris's KreaTV offering - a square cube with a red/blue light at the front, and a logo at the top.

Specs include HEVC, HDR-10, HLG, 10bit 2160p60, 2.4/5GHz WiFi, USB (so possibility of USB recording on the zapper box), wideband satellite tuners (so compatibility with SkyQ LNBs), no analogue outputs, Bluetooth remote compatibility, etc.

Remote appears to be an upgraded version of Freesat's standardised remote used for Bush G2 and Metaphor boxes.

No word on release dates but decent progress appears to have been made.

The Cush

From the same poster over on DS - https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/comment/95305984#Comment_95305984



Interview here with Alistair Thom, Managing Director, Freesat - https://www.commscope.com/Blog/Freesat-and-CommScope-collaborate-on-the-next-generation-set-top/
The video shows the new STB from CommScope (Arris) @1:11min.

This poster got the following info from Freesat

1. They are looking to release the new third generation boxes by the end of February, and are hoping to confirm a release date for these new boxes in the next few weeks.

2. Also that as Humax are not producing any new boxes and they are scarce, they suggested the Manhattan SX box for approx. £50 to obtain the Freesat service sooner.

Harry Palmr

The problem with buying a new box is all the stuff still unwatched on the old one!

The high horse brigade

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The problem with buying a new box is all the stuff still unwatched on the old one!

Can't you just leave it plugged in and use another source input

Harry Palmr

True, anyway I'll wait a while before diving in let early adopters work out the kinks and creases.

Sam Russell

Harry Palmr wrote: »

True, anyway I'll wait a while before diving in let early adopters work out the kinks and creases.

Plus, is geo-blocking not making new features unavailable in this jurisdiction?

The Cush

- Coming Soon -



Zapper, 500Gb, 1Tb
No pricing yet.

The Cush

From the Freesat newsletter today

byte

The Cush wrote: »

- Coming Soon -



Zapper, 500Gb, 1Tb
No pricing yet.

The site must've had the images/spec? up by mistake, because they're dead links now!

Atlantic Dawn

Will there will need to be a new dish/lnb to support the new boxes?

Capt'n Midnight

From 8th January 2018 , hopefully it'll continue to be FTA

Freesat has chosen Intertrust Technologies to provide content security for 4K UHD TV content.

said that the next-generation box would include UHD support for encrypted broadcast and IP deliver, fast channel change and HbbTV 2.0.1 support, as well as support for in-home multiscreen streaming

Intertrust’s ExpressPlay DRM now protects the over-the-top (OTT) TV content for one-quarter of the world’s population

The Cush

byte wrote: »

The site must've had the images/spec? up by mistake, because they're dead links now!

No images or specs, just a placeholder for the upcoming boxes with a blurb about each. In the tidy up they've also removed links to the discontinued Humax PVRs

The Cush

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Will there will need to be a new dish/lnb to support the new boxes?

I guess it depends on which tech they go with for the multi-tuners, wideband or SCR? Also will the new boxes include legacy connections for a standard LNB?

The Cush

From recent posts over on AV forums

Deano 123
Thursday Jan 30th at 5:06 PM

Just been on to freesat and the man assured me advertising and prices will be out in the next few weeks and there looking at putting the next gen box on sale in Feb 2020 . And its completely compatible with your old sky Q set up.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/new-generation-freesat-stb-arris.2256339/post-27737536

HeadBanger
Monday Feb 3rd at 2:05 PM

I just went on the FreeSat website and did a live chat with a very helpful guy called Craig and asked a number of questions.

He confirmed:
1. The boxes will be released by the end of Feb.
2. HDD sizes will be 500Gb, 1Tb or 2Tb.
3. Prices will be ~£80 for the on demand box and between £149-£249 for the PVRs (depending on the HDD size you want).
4. The boxes will work with both standard or wideband LNBs.
5. If connected to a wideband LNB you will be able to record up to 4 channels (or 3 whilst watching another).

https://www.avforums.com/threads/new-generation-freesat-stb-arris.2256339/post-27747908

mackersdublin

https://www.freesat.co.uk/4k-tv-box/

Harry Palmr

So then no HDD/SDD, have they abandoned drives or is it just a case of waiting?

NIMAN

So what's going to be in 4k?

Harry Palmr

Streaming material

mackersdublin

Harry Palmr wrote: »

So then no HDD/SDD, have they abandoned drives or is it just a case of waiting?

There's 2 LNB Inputs, so it must be able to record. Why else would it have them. It must be a mistake regarding no HDD built in

There's also a Record button on the remote. It's available from today on Amazon

The Cush

Harry Palmr wrote: »

So then no HDD/SDD, have they abandoned drives or is it just a case of waiting?

According to the earlier info there will be a 500Gb, 1Tb and 2Tb boxes. In a warehouse in China maybe.

NIMAN

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Streaming material

Ah great!
And me with ropey broadband.

What sort of speed do you need to stream 4k?

The Cush

mackersdublin wrote: »

There's 2 LNB Inputs, so it must be able to record. Why else would it have them. It must be a mistake regarding no HDD built in

Zapper box with 2 wideband/legacy connections probably. RF1 IN likely to be the +13/18V legacy connection.