Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

siobhan08

So been working in Dublin for the first time the last week, so I have been up and down the motorways. I've really noticed how fond drivers are of tailgating other drivers and undercutting them if they don't move in fast enough.

Happened to me twice and seen it happen to a few other drivers.

The two drivers who did it do me both tried to get in front of me when coming up to the express lane at the toll by moving over early and going over the white lines at the very start of the lane while I waiting until the arrow that directs you to move over.

After the toll I stayed in the overtaking lane as I was overtaking a few other cars and both were so far up my back that If I braked suddenly It would have caused a serious crash. I was going a good bit over the speed limit and it still wasn't good enough for them.

When I was finished overtaking and intended to move over they didn't give me a chance and just flew up on my inside. Only saw them when I looked in my wing mirror to check the distance from the car I had just overtaken before starting to move over.

One was a van and other was car, the van in particular was going so fast I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't too far off 180km when they went by me. They would have killed themselves or somebody else going the speeds they were if they crashed.

Is this a common occurance around commuting time?

Was shocked at the risks drivers took simply becase they were impatient.

Hilly Bill

Its the reason that there is a crash on the M50 nearly every day.

siobhan08

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Its the reason that there is a crash on the M50 nearly every day.

Madness.

The last week has been eye opening when comes to driver behaviour on irish roads.

Lived in England for a while.Don't think it was as bad over there.

sdanseo

While I don't condone either - the root cause is idiots lane hogging.

siobhan08

sdanseo wrote: »

While I don't condone either - the root cause is idiots lane hogging.

Nope the root cause of it is ignorance and inability to obey the rules of the road. Main one being the speed limit. If you are in the left hand lane or the overtaking lane the speed limit is still 120

endacl

siobhan08 wrote: »

Nope the root cause of it is ignorance and inability to obey the rules of the road

That'd include the lane hogging.

The third lane should never have been introduced to Irish roads. We don't know what to do with it...

Tigger

If you are undertaken then why are you in the overtaking lane
How are you being undertaken if you are overtaking a vehicle
It's hard to visualise

_Brian

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Tailgating and undertaking are stupid, but so is staying out in the overtaking lane because you are above the speed limit, if there's faster traffic behind you - move the feck over !

siobhan08

siobhan08 wrote: »

Nope the root cause of it is ignorance and inability to obey the rules of the road. Main one being the speed limit. If you are in the left hand lane or the overtaking lane the speed limit is still 120

siobhan08 wrote: »

I was going a good bit over the speed limit

The irony

AfterDusk

Tigger wrote:

If you are undertaken then why are you in the overtaking lane How are you being undertaken if you are overtaking a vehicle It's hard to visualise

You need to leave adequate space once you've passed the vehicle to your left before changing lanes. You can't just cut across straight away. It's entirely possible that in this case the arrogant prat behind the OP wasn't patient enough to wait and allow her leave the space before returning to the left lane.

siobhan08

Tigger wrote: »

If you are undertaken then why are you in the overtaking lane
How are you being undertaken if you are overtaking a vehicle
It's hard to visualise

I moved to the overtaking lane to go through the express lane of the toll. Then stayed in the overtaking lane as I was overtaking a line of cars while the other vehicles were up my ass. When I cleared the last of the cars I stayed in the overtaking to ensure there was adequate distance to move in front of the car I overtook, just as I was about to move to the left lane, they went on my inside and went past

topcatcbr

Tigger wrote: »

If you are undertaken then why are you in the overtaking lane
How are you being undertaken if you are overtaking a vehicle
It's hard to visualise

Exactly this. Move into the left lane and let people pass.

seachto7

Do what I do. Just touch the brake enough so the light comes on. Usually slows them down or just be pig ignorant and take your foot off the accelerator and gradually slow down and laugh at them as they pass you in a rage.
Better to be John Smith late than the late John Smith.

dev100

AfterDusk wrote:

You need to leave adequate space once you've passed the vehicle to your left before changing lanes. You can't just cut across straight away. It's entirely possible that in this case the arrogant prat behind the OP wasn't patient enough to wait and allow her leave the space before returning to the left lane.

If the other drivers had room to undertake then the OP had room to pull over to the left. Some drivers sit in overtaking lane and are oblivious to a line of cars stuck behind them and in some cases the traffic on the left lane moves faster because of it.

We seem to have an aversion to driving on the left and get territorial over hogging the overtaking lane.

firemansam4

She quite clearly stated that she was about to move back into the left lane after overtaking a car, but the car tailgating her moved into the left lane before she had a chance too.
When you overtake a car you are not supposed to cut straight back in, you have to give a bit of space to the car you have just overtaken, I guess some drivers dont have the patience for that.

siobhan08

dev100 wrote: »

If the other drivers had room to undertake then the OP had room to pull over to the left. Some drivers sit in overtaking lane and are oblivious to a line of cars stuck behind them and in some cases the traffic on the left lane moves faster because of it.

We seem to have an aversion to driving on the left and get territorial over hogging the overtaking lane.

If the other drivers had waited 5 seconds. I would have started to move over. Saw them going to the left lane to undertake when I was giving my left wing mirror a final check before commencing the land change

seachto7 wrote: »

Do what I do. Just touch the brake enough so the light comes on. Usually slows them down or just be pig ignorant and take your foot off the accelerator and gradually slow down and laugh at them as they pass you in a rage.
Better to be John Smith late than the late John Smith.

I tried that once or twice. Didn't slow them down just got closer so I just speed up to get by the traffice to get them off my back. Like I came across a speed I would totally been done so god knows the speed they were doing. It wasn't like I was going slow and unaware of what was behind me.

It was a van and a mercedes.... both think they own the roads

dev100

seachto7 wrote:

Do what I do. Just touch the brake enough so the light comes on. Usually slows them down or just be pig ignorant and take your foot off the accelerator and gradually slow down and laugh at them as they pass you in a rage. Better to be John Smith late than the late John Smith.

Do that to an unmarked squad car and see who laughs 😉

Can you not just pull over and let them go on ?

com1

seachto7 wrote: »

Do what I do. Just touch the brake enough so the light comes on. Usually slows them down or just be pig ignorant and take your foot off the accelerator and gradually slow down and laugh at them as they pass you in a rage.
Better to be John Smith late than the late John Smith.

Hey seachto, do you drive a cn reg vw by any chance?

My advice would be in future, don't speed, don't brake check, no need to make the situation any more dangerous than it needs to be

Maintain the speed limit or below, when you are passing the final car on your left, indicate that you wish to change into the lane on your left as you are actually passing the last car, don't wait until after (if you have a tailgater). This will let the car behind you know that you intend to change lanes as soon as it is safe to do so.

Isambard

siobhan08 wrote: »

I moved to the overtaking lane to go through the express lane of the toll. Then stayed in the overtaking lane as I was overtaking a line of cars while the other vehicles were up my ass. When I cleared the last of the cars I stayed in the overtaking to ensure there was adequate distance to move in front of the car I overtook, just as I was about to move to the left lane, they went on my inside and went past

i'm sure you can see the point being made, if they had room to pull to the left and undertake you, then you probably had room to pull over yourself. Maybe had you used you left indicator to show you were about to pull in, they wouldn't have done as they did. It's hard to know the real situation without being there though.

siobhan08

Isambard wrote: »

i'm sure you can see the point being made, if they had room to pull to the left and undertake you, then you probably had room to pull over yourself. Maybe had you used you left indicator to show you were about to pull in, they wouldn't have done as they did. It's hard to know the real situation without being there though.

Are you forgetting the whole Mirror Signal manoeuvre from learning to drive?

Like I have said a few times, I was checking my mirror when I saw them pull Inside. Being patient for 5 seconds is what was needed.

Regardless of what I was doing they shouldn't have been doing what they did. At one point they were probably as close as 2-3 feet. God only know what could have happen if I had to brake suddenly

dudeeile

If they had time to enter the left lane and accelerate to nearly 180km then you probably had sufficient time to also pull over, a simple indicator might have sufficed. I'm not condoning the driving of the other vehicles but you might need to assess your own driving behaviour while you're at it.

Driving is dangerous enough without a feeling of entitlement taking over our roads.

RayM

siobhan08 wrote: »

If the other drivers had waited 5 seconds. I would have started to move over. Saw them going to the left lane to undertake when I was giving my left wing mirror a final check before commencing the land change

I see so much of this on the N11 and M50 every day. I usually indicate a little bit early, to let them know that I'll be out of their way as soon as I'm finished overtaking. Even that doesn't necessarily stop them from flying up the inside though, especially if they're driving an Audi.

Jamie2k9

Irish people cannot drive on motorways, if they could the M50 and M7 would be much nicer roads to travel. It comes down to poor driving test requirements.

People driving slow in the middle and third lane make me so :mad:

Jamie2k9

siobhan08 wrote: »

Madness.

The last week has been eye opening when comes to driver behaviour on irish roads.

Lived in England for a while.Don't think it was as bad over there.

Drivers are not but the speed camera system is a total joke.

Hilly Bill

sdanseo wrote: »

While I don't condone either - the root cause is idiots lane hogging.

Nope, its idiots not paying attention and doing stupid moves. Lane hogging is just a nuisance but you can avoid it with a bit of patience .

Hilly Bill

_Brian wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Tailgating and undertaking are stupid, but so is staying out in the overtaking lane because you are above the speed limit, if there's faster traffic behind you - move the feck over !

If a car comes up behind me and im passing a few cars, the car behind can wait until ive passed and clear for me to pull back in. Too many race up behind the car in front and try and force that car to pull over or quicken up. If they start getting to close and flash the lights then i'll be taking my time overtaking.

Hilly Bill

siobhan08 wrote: »

I moved to the overtaking lane to go through the express lane of the toll. Then stayed in the overtaking lane as I was overtaking a line of cars while the other vehicles were up my ass. When I cleared the last of the cars I stayed in the overtaking to ensure there was adequate distance to move in front of the car I overtook, just as I was about to move to the left lane, they went on my inside and went past

Those are the inpatient idiots who cause accidents.

I tend to potter along at about 130 on the motorway.

As a result, I tend to overtake the vast majority of cars i come across. So what I usually do is just stay in the overtaking lane. 9 times out of 10 the lane is empty behind me. When I see a car in the lane behind me, I keep an eye on him. If he is actually progressing towards me, I move in out of the way in good time and allow him to go by unobstructed. It's very rare that anyone would be stuck behind me in normal driving conditions.

If I am overtaking a line of cars, and someone comes up behind me, and tries to get into the boot of my car, I'll give them a flash or two of the hazard lights. Generally most people will back off a bit. if they don't, I hit the rear fog lights and tap the brake pedal momentarily for the lights to all come on. I never actually slow down though, or brake check them. In fairness, they could be in a rush for any legitimate reason. Could be a real life or death emergency, you never know. But regardless, tailgating me wont speed you up.


I have noticed something though, relating to busy motorway times..

During Dublin commuting time (which, thank god, I don't have to experience too often!), there is often a line of cars on both lanes of the M1 to Dublin (i'd be coming from Drogheda direction, heading south to Dublin). What tends to happen is someone is driving along at the limit, which is reasonable enough. They then happen upon a HGV which is restricted to 100km/h. They pop into the overtaking lane, and they see yet another HGV will be in front of them almost immediately if they swing back into the left lane. After they have overtaken the two HGVs, yet again, there's a car with a trailer, or a campervan or OAP pottering along at 100 or less. So the person decides to stay in the overtaking lane. Who could blame them? They're at the limit, and they're overtaking. No complaints here.


So the lads that drive BMWs, and Audis, who, for some reason or another, always seem to be in a panic to get places, come flying up behind you in the overtaking lane at 160km/h, and then get stuck behind you. They sit there, irate, wanting you to move into the driving lane, but naturally, you won't, because you're in a dense row of traffic, and although you're driving possibly below the limit at this stage, there's no point moving over to let the car behind you by, because you'll be stuck behind a truck, and you will have difficulty getting back into the overtaking lane again, as the car behind you has just taken your place.


So Mr BMW decides the best thing to do, is wait until he overtakes a truck, pulls into the left lane, and floors it until he's bumper to bumper with the next truck, and tries to merge in to the overtaking lane again. Having passed about 5-6 cars on his journey. Naturally, everyone seen him do this, so no one willingly lets him in, meaning he forces in, and a row of brake lights come on as everyone has to drop about 20km off their speed.

BMW driver will repeat this over and over. When you leave the motorway and arrive in dublin 15 minutes later, you'll see him sitting at the first set of traffic lights. He will have invented pressure and stress for himself, and will have gotten very little further on as a result.

I see this repeatedly (not always with BMWs, although they do seem to live up to their bad reputation by and large, unfortunately), and I never understand it. Often times, I will get fed up of the fast-slow-fast-slow nonsense, and I'll just set the cruise control at 100 and pull in between 2 HGVs. Less messing, less stress. Just potter along and let everyone else brake check, undertake, tailgate and flash each other in anger

Del2005

siobhan08 wrote: »

Are you forgetting the whole Mirror Signal manoeuvre from learning to drive?

Like I have said a few times, I was checking my mirror when I saw them pull Inside. Being patient for 5 seconds is what was needed.

Regardless of what I was doing they shouldn't have been doing what they did. At one point they were probably as close as 2-3 feet. God only know what could have happen if I had to brake suddenly

You don't drive on a motorway when learning to drive. Motorway driving is a different skill and in it using your indicators to signal that you are aware of the vehicle behind by signaling left means that the following vehicle knows that you are awake and will pull over when the overtake is finished. By not signaling you just look like the thousands of other drivers who think that they are entitled to sit in the "fast lane " as they are going "fast", it's an overtaking lane.

The location of the express lane in the overtaking lane of the motorway is partially to blame for this by making people with tags think that they have to use the express lane even if they aren't confident enough to travel at the required speed. Move the express lane to the driving lane and then the problem will be partially solved.

The Bishop Basher

From what you've written here OP, you were the problem. If other cars were able to undertake you, it means you were in the overtaking lane while not overtaking and given that this is a daily occurance which slows up the entire motorway network for everyone, many of us have little tolerance for drivers like you.

Jamming on your brakes is not only dangerous but will just enflame the situation and I'm surprised to see so many people advocate this as thankfully it's not something I see all that often.

But if people like yourself could learn to use a 2/3 lane motorway correctly, driving on them would be a much more pleasant and safer experience for everyone.

RayM

Swanner wrote: »

From what you've written here OP, you were the problem. If other cars were able to undertake you, it means you were in the overtaking lane while not overtaking and given that this is a daily occurance which slows up the entire motorway network for everyone, many of us have little tolerance for drivers like you.

From what you've written, it looks like you didn't read the OP's posts properly. She was about to indicate to leave the overtaking lane, having just overtaken a few other cars, when the cars behind her, which were tailgating (which is illegal) decided to undertake (which is also illegal, and should only be done as a last resort). I see this sort of thing all the time.

Driving would be a far more pleasant experience if people were more tolerant and patient, and less aggressive. And even if someone is lane-hogging, there is never any excuse for tailgating.

The Bishop Basher

If I can undertake you, and you're not indicating to move left, then you're in the wrong lane.

No amount of shoulda coulda woulda will change that.

Del2005

RayM wrote: »

From what you've written, it looks like you didn't read the OP's posts properly. She was about to indicate to leave the overtaking lane, having just overtaken a few other cars, when the cars behind her, which were tailgating (which is illegal) decided to undertake (which is also illegal, and should only be done as a last resort). I see this sort of thing all the time.

Driving would be a far more pleasant experience if people were more tolerant and patient, and less aggressive. And even if someone is lane-hogging, there is never any excuse for tailgating.

She was about to pull in and was checking her mirrors to see if she had passed. I don't know about the rest of you put when I'm overtaking a vehicle I keep track of it and know when I can pull back in. If a car can pull in behind and then undertake you you've gone too far in the overtaking lane.

beauf

No matter what speed you do there is always someone going faster, wanting to overtake and someone undertaking. Speed limits are a joke. Almost zero enforcement.
As result there is constant weaving in and out of lanes. No one stays in lane. If you do you are lane hogging regardless of what lane you are in.
If you stay left you are blocking those merging, if you stay right you're never going fast enough. No one should ever be in the middle lane apparently.

The OP asked was this normal in Dublin. Definitely. You notice as you get closer to Dublin the driving gets a lot worse. The M50 seems to have multiple accidents all day and especially at peak.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/van-driver-caught-speeding-in-port-tunnel-three-times-in-90-minutes-1.3139108

That someone gets caught 3 times within 90min it tells you it has become normal to speed. Which means its become normal to be impatient.

mfceiling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I tend to potter along at about 130 on the motorway.

So what I usually do is just stay in the overtaking lane.

You do know you still have to move in to the left after completing your overtaking?

shar01

In a couple of hours time, I'm going to be joining the M50 at Cherrywood to head to the airport.

Any time when I'm on the M50 and the traffic is relatively light, I get into the left lane after Sandyford, stick the cruise control on at 100km and, except for having to move into the middle lane where there is merging traffic, I will spend most of the journey in the left hand lane. I guarantee you I will undertake many cars pootling along in the middle lane.

What I'm doing is illegal but as there's no enforcement... big swinging mickey!

lawred2

RayM wrote: »

From what you've written, it looks like you didn't read the OP's posts properly. She was about to indicate to leave the overtaking lane, having just overtaken a few other cars, when the cars behind her, which were tailgating (which is illegal) decided to undertake (which is also illegal, and should only be done as a last resort). I see this sort of thing all the time.

Driving would be a far more pleasant experience if people were more tolerant and patient, and less aggressive. And even if someone is lane-hogging, there is never any excuse for tailgating.

Yeah but those behind are not mind readers. She took too long to change lanes.

Tell me how

There's one thing that everyone has in common here, they all think their style of driving is the best/safest.

And also, often, they think all others should drive in this way.

Everyone shares the road, I always wonder why some let other drivers bother them so much. I've a friend who cannot drive 20k on motorway without bringing get back a story about "the world's worst driver".

For those who say Irish people can't drive, do you include yourself in that? I bet not.

beauf

Tell me how wrote: »

...I always wonder why some let other drivers bother them so much.....

Kinda hard to ignore people trying to kill you on a daily basis.

Tell me how

beauf wrote:

Kinda hard to ignore people trying to kill you on a daily basis.

You do realise they're likely thinking the same about you?

The Bishop Basher

beauf wrote: »

No matter what speed you do there is always someone going faster, wanting to overtake and someone undertaking. Speed limits are a joke. Almost zero enforcement.
As result there is constant weaving in and out of lanes. No one stays in lane. If you do you are lane hogging regardless of what lane you are in.
If you stay left you are blocking those merging, if you stay right you're never going fast enough. No one should ever be in the middle lane apparently.

Go drive in the UK and see how well a motorway works when people keep left. All of the problems you mention above are because Irish people seem utterly incapable of grasping that one very simple rule.

beauf wrote: »

You notice as you get closer to Dublin the driving gets a lot worse.

It does for 2 reasons..

Firstly it seems the closer you get to Dublin the more people like to hog the middle and overtaking lanes..

Secondly as the traffic volumes increase near the city, the first problem has a far greater impact with all the knock on effects of people weaving in and out of lanes etc.

I'm honestly completely flabbergasted that people just don't get this. Keep left unless overtaking. It couldn't be simpler.

beauf

Tell me how wrote: »

You do realise they're likely thinking the same about you?

I doubt it. Most likely I don't get noticed as I stay out of other peoples way.

If you happen to be behind people who you see do a dangerous maneuver, they'll usually keep making other dangerous maneuvers as its a habit, rarely is it once off just to circumstance. Its why the police follow cars driving erratically or badly. They will always repeat it.

Everyone knows someone who have a reputation as a bad driver. Often within the family. That's through their habits. Likewise everyone knows people they consider a safe driver.

So no not everyone is a bad driver.

The Bishop Basher

Tell me how wrote: »

There's one thing that everyone has in common here, they all think their style of driving is the best/safest.

And also, often, they think all others should drive in this way.

When discussing lane discipline on a motorway it has nothing to do with personal style of driving There is a correct way to use lanes on a motorway and yes everyone should drive in this way.

If you're not doing it this way, you're doing it wrong and should educate yourself.

lawred2

Swanner wrote: »

Go drive in the UK and see how well a motorway works when people keep left. All of the problems you mention above are because Irish people seem utterly incapable of grasping that one very simple rule.



It does for 2 reasons..

Firstly it seems the closer you get to Dublin the more people like to hog the middle and overtaking lanes..

Secondly as the traffic volumes increase near the city, the first problem has a far greater impact with all the knock on effects of people weaving in and out of lanes etc.

I'm honestly completely flabbergasted that people just don't get this. Keep left unless overtaking. It couldn't be simpler.

The M50 could not function without all three lanes being utilised. It's oversubscribed. Expecting everyone to stay left is to ignore reality.

bmwguy

Whatever about most Irish people not being able to drive on motorways I think some of the responses here have highlighted a more pressing problem, most of you can't read!

The OP did nothing wrong except for possibly exceeding motorway limit. You all want her to do a violent lane merge the instant she was finished overtaking. Cop on to yourselves.

Fact - she was in overtaking lane when she was overtaking. No problem there. Doing slightly above motorway limit which is ok in my

Fact - she said she was getting ready to merge back left but was undercut by someone's impatience immediately.

beauf

Swanner wrote: »

Go drive in the UK and see how well a motorway works when people keep left. All of the problems you mention above are because Irish people seem utterly incapable of grasping that one very simple rule.

People are obsessed with lane hogging in these forum. There's a lot of other issues like in appropriate speeding, and aggressive driving, and dangerous driving. The left lane has its own problems.

Swanner wrote: »

It does for 2 reasons..

Firstly it seems the closer you get to Dublin the more people like to hog the middle and overtaking lanes..

Secondly as the traffic volumes increase near the city, the first problem has a far greater impact with all the knock on effects of people weaving in and out of lanes etc.

I'm honestly completely flabbergasted that people just don't get this. Keep left unless overtaking. It couldn't be simpler.

Its not just lane hogging. There is increased aggression and intimidation in Dublin. Even in the left lane.

I expect no one mentions the problems of the left lane, because they never drive in it.

The Bishop Basher

lawred2 wrote: »

The M50 could not function without all three lanes being utilised. It's oversubscribed. Expecting everyone to stay left is to ignore reality.

Well if we managed to get it right when the road is half empty you might have a point but even on my early morning airport runs at 5am I regularly come across some idiot cruising at 90kph in the middle or overtaking lane.

That aside though, the M50 is not that over subscribed. I rarely find myself in bumper to bumper standstill traffic apart from one or two of the usual spots. If everyone adopted correct lane discipline traffic would move much more efficiently. The road is designed to work that way.

dunleakelleher

siobhan08 wrote: »

If the other drivers had waited 5 seconds. I would have started to move over. Saw them going to the left lane to undertake when I was giving my left wing mirror a final check before commencing the land change

you can indicate your intention to pull in even before you clear the car you are overtaking. the driver behind will see a flashing orange/yellow light that will tell him that you intend to pull over.

lawred2

bmwguy wrote: »

Whatever about most Irish people not being able to drive on motorways I think some of the responses here have highlighted a more pressing problem, most of you can't read!

The OP did nothing wrong except for possibly exceeding motorway limit. You all want her to do a violent lane merge the instant she was finished overtaking. Cop on to yourselves.

Fact - she was in overtaking lane when she was overtaking. No problem there. Doing slightly above motorway limit which is ok in my

Fact - she said she was getting ready to merge back left but was undercut by someone's impatience immediately.

Violent?

She should have indicated her intention sooner. Sure she did nothing wrong but it's best to signal your intentions earlier rather than later. Cut any impatience off early.

The Bishop Basher

bmwguy wrote: »

Fact - she said she was getting ready to merge back left but was undercut by someone's impatience immediately.

Fact - She wasn't even indicating..

How long does it take to "get ready" to merge back into the left lane ?