Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

Dravokivich

kbannon wrote: »

Where are you getting this from?

You are not going to indicate left for 3 kilometers.

Seth Brundle

Dravokivich wrote: »

You are not going to indicate left for 3 kilometers.

You used rhe word "meant" suggesting that its mandatory.
Describe how it is mandatory rather than suggest what I may or may not do please.

Or was your use of "meant" a suggestion meaning that it is not compulsory?

First Up

liamog wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

If a Garda saw that happening (i.e. car in 1st lane just carrying on and passing a car in the 3rd lane), I am convinced that the Garda would stop the car in the 3rd lane.

I've seen the car 3rd lane pulled over, I've never heard of someone being pulled for travelling in lane 1 and passing a car in lane 3.

But we have a contributor to this discussion who will lecture you that the ROR requires you to either match speeds with the car in Lane 3 or pull into Lane 3 behind him and hope for the best.

liamog

First Up wrote: »

But we have a contributor to this discussion who will lecture you that the ROR requires you to either match speeds with the car in Lane 3 or pull into Lane 3 behind him and hope for the best.

The contributor seems to be advocating for tailgating in the outside lane

K.Flyer

liamog wrote: »

The contributor seems to be advocating for tailgating in the outside lane

Which is not an uncommon sight nowadays with the amount of slow driving idiots in lane 3 holding up traffic.

GreeBo

It's quite hilarious the lengths you lads will go to justify ignoring the rules of the road.

If you are going to disregard them at least have the balls to own it and admit that you do it.

The ROTR and laws are quite clear. You pass on the right other than when in slow-moving traffic or traffic turning right.
Anything else is made up nonsense.

It's not lecturing to explain the reality to you. You can make up all the scenarios you want, what you are advocating will still be wrong.

Sure it's annoying when some moron is hogging lanes, don't add to the list of morons.

And the Garda will most definitely pull people for passing on the left, I've seen it myself on an otherwise empty M50.

fastdriver

it that type of hill billy attitude that causes all the problems on the roads !

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

But we have a contributor to this discussion who will lecture you that the ROR requires you to either match speeds with the car in Lane 3 or pull into Lane 3 behind him and hope for the best.

liamog wrote: »

The contributor seems to be advocating for tailgating in the outside lane

Be a dear and show us where I advocate tailgating?

Y'all need to go read a dictionary.

fastdriver

it that type of hill billy attitude that causes all the problems on the roads !
Greebo im sorry my reply was meant for HillBilly

Andrew Beef

GreeBo wrote: »

It's quite hilarious the lengths you lads will go to justify ignoring the rules of the road.

If you are going to disregard them at least have the balls to own it and admit that you do it.

The ROTR and laws are quite clear. You pass on the right other than when in slow-moving traffic or traffic turning right.
Anything else is made up nonsense.

It's not lecturing to explain the reality to you. You can make up all the scenarios you want, what you are advocating will still be wrong.

Sure it's annoying when some moron is hogging lanes, don't add to the list of morons.

And the Garda will most definitely pull people for passing on the left, I've seen it myself on an otherwise empty M50.

Probably in circumstances where an undertaking manoeuvre has taken place.

I do not believe that the Gardai would stop someone who just keeps going in the inside lane whilst some clown is sitting in the outer lane.

GreeBo

Andrew Beef wrote: »

Probably in circumstances where an undertaking manoeuvre has taken place.

I do not believe that the Gardai would stop someone who just keeps going in the inside lane whilst some clown is sitting in the outer lane.

Passing on the left is passing on the left.
It matters as much if you had jam or marmalade on your toast that morning as it does to what lane you were in yesterday or just prior to passing the car.

I've seen it, I'm not the only one, believe it

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

I've seen it, I'm not the only one, believe it

From your vantage point in Lane 2?

liamog

GreeBo wrote: »

Be a dear and show us where I advocate tailgating?

Y'all need to go read a dictionary.

I'm driving in lane 1 at 100km/h, there is a person in lane 3 driving at 80km/h.
You'd have me pull out to lane 3 and go directly behind the person in lane 3 until they got the hint and either moved over or sped up.

This is tailgating.

Sean Kinvarra

Andrew Beef wrote: »

GreeBo wrote: »

It's quite hilarious the lengths you lads will go to justify ignoring the rules of the road.

If you are going to disregard them at least have the balls to own it and admit that you do it.

The ROTR and laws are quite clear. You pass on the right other than when in slow-moving traffic or traffic turning right.
Anything else is made up nonsense.

It's not lecturing to explain the reality to you. You can make up all the scenarios you want, what you are advocating will still be wrong.

Sure it's annoying when some moron is hogging lanes, don't add to the list of morons.

And the Garda will most definitely pull people for passing on the left, I've seen it myself on an otherwise empty M50.

Probably in circumstances where an undertaking manoeuvre has taken place.

I do not believe that the Gardai would stop someone who just keeps going in the inside lane whilst some clown is sitting in the outer lane.

Mr Expert tells us we ignore the rules of the road, yet if you ask him to give the speed and legal definition of "slow moving traffic" he cannot. I want to tell Mr Expert the Rules of the Road state that "normal speed" is maximum speed, so if I pass a hogger to my right then that driver is not driving at normal speed for that lane so he/dhe is driving too slow, or slow moving for that lane and I have every right to pass.

First Up

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

Andrew Beef wrote: »

GreeBo wrote: »

It's quite hilarious the lengths you lads will go to justify ignoring the rules of the road.

If you are going to disregard them at least have the balls to own it and admit that you do it.

The ROTR and laws are quite clear. You pass on the right other than when in slow-moving traffic or traffic turning right.
Anything else is made up nonsense.

It's not lecturing to explain the reality to you. You can make up all the scenarios you want, what you are advocating will still be wrong.

Sure it's annoying when some moron is hogging lanes, don't add to the list of morons.

And the Garda will most definitely pull people for passing on the left, I've seen it myself on an otherwise empty M50.

Probably in circumstances where an undertaking manoeuvre has taken place.

I do not believe that the Gardai would stop someone who just keeps going in the inside lane whilst some clown is sitting in the outer lane.

Mr Expert tells us we ignore the rules of the road, yet if you ask him to give the speed and legal definition of "slow moving traffic" he cannot.

I think it is clear that some of us have thought about this (and with a more enlightened understanding of the realities of motorway driving) a good deal more than has Mr E.

GreeBo

liamog wrote: »

I'm driving in lane 1 at 100km/h, there is a person in lane 3 driving at 80km/h.
You'd have me pull out to lane 3 and go directly behind the person in lane 3 until they got the hint and either moved over or sped up.

This is tailgating.

Rewriting the dictionary along with ROTR I see!

to drive too closely behind (another vehicle)

"Directly behind" as opposed to what, obliquely behind?
I'm still waiting for you to show where advocate tailgating btw, take your time, I have all year.

TheChizler

liamog wrote: »

I'm driving in lane 1 at 100km/h, there is a person in lane 3 driving at 80km/h.
You'd have me pull out to lane 3 and go directly behind the person in lane 3 until they got the hint and either moved over or sped up.

This is tailgating.

Tailgating is driving too close to the vehicle in front of you (or a party in a car park!). Nothing to do with different lanes.

the_pen_turner

GreeBo wrote: »

Rewriting the dictionary along with ROTR I see!



"Directly behind" as opposed to what, obliquely behind?
I'm still waiting for you to show where advocate tailgating btw, take your time, I have all year.

hold on now you only have 6 hours left .

the_pen_turner

I believe that undertaking is the safer option than sitting behind a slow moving car . if they are doing 115 then its not that dangerous but if they are doing 80 then you are in a real dangerous place. some idiot speeding or on the their phone could run into the back of you or go for a slingshot undertake on several cars and lose control

its much safer to stay where you are and slip past while the idiot in the left lane is asleep.

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

I think it is clear that some of us have thought about this (and with a more enlightened understanding of the realities of motorway driving) a good deal more than has Mr E.

Ah so it's the realities of your enlightened driving skills that you believe allow you to ignore the rules.

I'd say that would work well in court alright.

If only the Garda and the rest of us had your skillz and abiliteez behind the wheel, just think how much safer the roads would be!

What speed limit would you prefer, just while we are at it?

GreeBo

the_pen_turner wrote: »

hold on now you only have 6 hours left .

Whoosh!;)

liamog

GreeBo wrote: »

Passing on the left is passing on the left.
It matters as much if you had jam or marmalade on your toast that morning as it does to what lane you were in yesterday or just prior to passing the car.

I've seen it, I'm not the only one, believe it

I've seen it too, but not when somebody was traveling along in the driving lane at near the same speed as the second driving lane and they were passing due to the natural flow of traffic. Weaving to pass on the left or doing so at high relative speed is the dangerous action that will cause you to be pulled over.

Come to think of it using the literal interpretation of the rules is brilliant.

I could drive along in lane 3 then slow down, the Gardai could make an absolute fortune giving tickets to every single driver in lane 1 and 2 who didn't slow down to avoid the "dangerous" passing on the left maneuver.

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

Ah so it's the realities of your enlightened driving skills that you believe allow you to ignore the rules.

I'd say that would work well in court alright.

If only the Garda and the rest of us had your skillz and abiliteez behind the wheel, just think how much safer the roads would be!

What speed limit would you prefer, just while we are at it?

My enlightened skills inform my decisions when faced with dangerous situations caused by others. That's what good drivers are supposed to do - not make the situation worse.

What have speed limits got to do with it?

GreeBo

liamog wrote: »

I've seen it too, but not when somebody was traveling along in the driving lane at near the same speed as the second driving lane and they were passing due to the natural flow of traffic. Weaving to pass on the left or doing so at high relative speed is the dangerous action that will cause you to be pulled over.

Sorry, but that's not how logic works.
Despite what you've seen, I and others have seen what we've seen.


The natural flow of traffic is everyone in lane 1 unless passing.

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

My enlightened skills inform my decisions when faced with dangerous situations caused by others. That's what good drivers are supposed to do - not make the situation worse.

What have speed limits got to do with it?

Good drivers obey the rules and laws.
Bad drivers don't, they lane hog, tailgate and pass on the wrong side.

Well you believe you can ignore some rules, why not speed limits?

K.Flyer

There are rules of the road and there is common sense.
These same drivers who slow down in lane 1 to match the slower car in lane 2 or 3, or worse, cross two lanes to travel behind the slower car in the hope of them moving over, would probably be the same idiots who sit behind a broken down truck or bus for ages rather than cross over the solid white line to get passed them because the RotR say you shouldn't cross a solid white line, so they just sit there and hold everyone up.

GreeBo

K.Flyer wrote: »

There are rules...and there is common sense.

So said anyone who has ever broken the rules.
Anarchy we call that.

the_pen_turner

GreeBo wrote: »

So said anyone who has ever broken the rules.
Anarchy we call that.

have you ever broken the rules everybody does slightly everyday

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

My enlightened skills inform my decisions when faced with dangerous situations caused by others. That's what good drivers are supposed to do - not make the situation worse.

What have speed limits got to do with it?

Good drivers obey the rules and laws.
Bad drivers don't, they lane hog, tailgate and pass on the wrong side.

Well you believe you can ignore some rules, why not speed limits?

It would be a comfort to other road users if you are as good at missing them as you are at missing the point.

Seth Brundle

GreeBo wrote: »

And the Garda will most definitely pull people for passing on the left, I've seen it myself on an otherwise empty M50.

Right. I call bull now.
If (and it's a big if) what you're saying did happen (and I don't believe you*) then you have no idea why a car was pulled over by the gardai unless you were driving it.

* I don't believe you because I do not for a second believe that on an otherwise empty M50 (ie there was you, the person pulled over, the gardai and a gimp in the wrong lane) the gardai pulled a car for driving along in lane 1 and not moving all the way to lane 3 to pass the gimp. The gardai aren't that stuck for reasons to pull motorists over so your story is unbelievable!

GreeBo

kbannon wrote: »

Right. I call bull now.
If (and it's a big if) what you're saying did happen (and I don't believe you*) then you have no idea why a car was pulled over by the gardai unless you were driving it.

* I don't believe you because I do not for a second believe that on an otherwise empty M50 (ie there was you, the person pulled over, the gardai and a gimp in the wrong lane) the gardai pulled a car for driving along in lane 1 and not moving all the way to lane 3 to pass the gimp. The gardai aren't that stuck for reasons to pull motorists over so your story is unbelievable!

Believe what you want, I and others have seen it.

Keep passing on the left and you'll get a first hand view eventually.

It's not a matter of being stuck for things to do, as a member of the Traffic Corp, if you see someone driving incorrectly, you do something.

Andrew Beef

GreeBo wrote: »

Believe what you want, I and others have seen it.

Keep passing on the left and you'll get a first hand view eventually.

It's not a matter of being stuck for things to do, as a member of the Traffic Corp, if you see someone driving incorrectly, you do something.

If you’re travelling at 100kph in Lane 1 and you encounter someone in Lane 3 who’s travelling at 80kph, the correct course of action is to keep driving and remain in your lane.

If the Gardai saw that and were mindful to pull someone over, it’d be the driver in Lane 3 every time.

the_pen_turner

Andrew Beef wrote: »

If you’re travelling at 100kph in Lane 1 and you encounter someone in Lane 3 who’s travelling at 80kph, the correct course of action is to keep driving and remain in your lane.

If the Gardai saw that and were mindful to pull someone over, it’d be the driver in Lane 3 every time.

you would certainly hope that they would pull over the idiot that is driving dangerously and causing a delay and actually breaking the law
the driver that undertakes is entering a grey area legally but doing the right thing

GreeBo

Andrew Beef wrote: »

If you’re travelling at 100kph in Lane 1 and you encounter someone in Lane 3 who’s travelling at 80kph, the correct course of action is to keep driving and remain in your lane.

.

Continuously repeating it doesn't make it legal.

Seth Brundle

GreeBo wrote: »

Believe what you want, I and others have seen it.

You're still trotting out this line that you know why the gardai may have pulled someone over? So you know for a fact that it as for passjng on the left and wasn't for not wearing a seatbelt or no motor tax or not because you saw the gardai stick on the blues?
Stop waffling please, it's childish!

mojesius

I pretty much had the left lane of the m50 to myself this evening northbound until near the n7 exit. Noone else actually seemed arsed to use it. Drove steadily at 95kmh and passed many cars dawdling at 85kmh in the middle lane, who were causing a huge mass of faster moving cars in the right lane. No way was I getting involved in that nonsense when I was maintaining a steady speed and the road ahead was clear.

GreeBo

kbannon wrote: »

You're still trotting out this line that you know why the gardai may have pulled someone over? So you know for a fact that it as for passjng on the left and wasn't for not wearing a seatbelt or no motor tax or not because you saw the gardai stick on the blues?
Stop waffling please, it's childish!

Yeah, all I have to back me up are the ROTR and the statute book.
Nothing really when compared against the weight of evidence you guys have...remind me what that is again?
Oh yeah, a bunch of lads on a forum...case closed!

First Up

mojesius wrote: »

I pretty much had the left lane of the m50 to myself this evening northbound until near the n7 exit. Noone else actually seemed arsed to use it. Drove steadily at 95kmh and passed many cars dawdling at 85kmh in the middle lane, who were causing a huge mass of faster moving cars in the right lane. No way was I getting involved in that nonsense when I was maintaining a steady speed and the road ahead was clear.

Dead right. Sensible, smart and responsible driving.

Ash.J.Williams

Gardaí hate doogooders controlling the speed of the overtaking lanes and consider it dangerous driving. They even have ad campaigns about it. That includes people doing a steady 120km. If your doing 120km in the outer lane and people are undertaking you you are dangerous driving and need to cop on to yourself.

Sean Kinvarra

First Up wrote: »

mojesius wrote: »

I pretty much had the left lane of the m50 to myself this evening northbound until near the n7 exit. Noone else actually seemed arsed to use it. Drove steadily at 95kmh and passed many cars dawdling at 85kmh in the middle lane, who were causing a huge mass of faster moving cars in the right lane. No way was I getting involved in that nonsense when I was maintaining a steady speed and the road ahead was clear.

Dead right. Sensible, smart and responsible driving.

Proper order. If according to Mr Expert its so dangerous why isn't it illegal in UK where they have a safer record than us?

First Up

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

mojesius wrote: »

I pretty much had the left lane of the m50 to myself this evening northbound until near the n7 exit. Noone else actually seemed arsed to use it. Drove steadily at 95kmh and passed many cars dawdling at 85kmh in the middle lane, who were causing a huge mass of faster moving cars in the right lane. No way was I getting involved in that nonsense when I was maintaining a steady speed and the road ahead was clear.

Dead right. Sensible, smart and responsible driving.

Proper order. If according to Mr Expert its so dangerous why isn't it illegal in UK where they have a safer record than us?

And in the UK there is much better understanding of how motorways are supposed to work, as well as far more enforcement of lane usage. The nonsense we see on the M50 and especially the M7 would not be tolerated on any UK motorway, either by the police or other drivers.

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

And in the UK there is much better understanding of how motorways are supposed to work, as well as far more enforcement of lane usage. The nonsense we see on the M50 and especially the M7 would not be tolerated on any UK motorway, either by the police or other drivers.

You mean where they explicitly tell you not to pass on the left and that failure to obey these rules may be used to establish liability?
Is that the country you are referring to?

Weird how they specifically state, and I quote

Rule 268 wrote:

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake

Sounds likes yet another ringing endorsement of your approach to driving lads.

All the back slapping and circle thanking in the world isn't gong to change the fact that you are wrong.

pablo128

GreeBo wrote: »

You mean where they explicitly tell you not to pass on the left and that failure to obey these rules may be used to establish liability?
Is that the country you are referring to?

Weird how they specifically state, and I quote


Sounds likes yet another ringing endorsement of your approach to driving lads.

All the back slapping and circle thanking in the world isn't gong to change the fact that you are wrong.

You don't have to undertake in the UK as there is very little lanehogging. I've done 4 hour journeys over in England and Wales and you wouldn't get stressed at all. Over here I spend half the journey cursing other idiots.

GreeBo

pablo128 wrote: »

You don't have to undertake in the UK as there is very little lanehogging.

The country that coined the term Middle Lane Moron?

pablo128

GreeBo wrote: »

The country that coined the term Middle Lane Moron?

I'm speaking from experience.

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

And in the UK there is much better understanding of how motorways are supposed to work, as well as far more enforcement of lane usage. The nonsense we see on the M50 and especially the M7 would not be tolerated on any UK motorway, either by the police or other drivers.

You mean where they explicitly tell you not to pass on the left and that failure to obey these rules may be used to establish liability?
Is that the country you are referring to?

Weird how they specifically state, and I quote

Rule 268 wrote:

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake

Sounds likes yet another ringing endorsement of your approach to driving lads.

All the back slapping and circle thanking in the world isn't gong to change the fact that you are wrong.

You should read that UK rule a bit more carefully - or get someone to explain it to you.

GreeBo

Sean Kinvarra

First Up wrote: »

GreeBo wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

And in the UK there is much better understanding of how motorways are supposed to work, as well as far more enforcement of lane usage. The nonsense we see on the M50 and especially the M7 would not be tolerated on any UK motorway, either by the police or other drivers.

You mean where they explicitly tell you not to pass on the left and that failure to obey these rules may be used to establish liability?
Is that the country you are referring to?

Weird how they specifically state, and I quote

Rule 268 wrote:

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake

Sounds likes yet another ringing endorsement of your approach to driving lads.

All the back slapping and circle thanking in the world isn't gong to change the fact that you are wrong.

You should read that UK rule a bit more carefully - or get someone to explain it to you.

Mr Expert has really put his foot in the trap. If only he had read the Introduction and Wording of the Highway Code he would have known about Rule 268 (Do Not) and what it meant.

http://driversmocktest.com/uk-highway-code-wording-explained/

Irish Steve

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

Mr Expert has really put his foot in the trap. If only he had read the Introduction and Wording of the Highway Code he would have known about Rule 268 (Do Not) and what it meant.

http://driversmocktest.com/uk-highway-code-wording-explained/

Perhaps you should try reading it. I see nothing here to justify your stance, and even if I did, this is UK rules, NOT Irish Rules.

Other rules of The Highway Code are safe driving routines. You should always follow them for your and others safety. Failure to comply with these rules does not automatically mean that you will be prosecuted. You should however be aware that the Highway Code may be used in evidence in any court proceedings. It may be used in civil law under the Traffic Acts to establish liability.
Even if the words do/do not and should/should not act as advisory rules, it does not mean you can ignore them. They call upon your judgement. There might be situations when you are forced to do something else. Be aware that NOT following the advisory rules put you in greater risk of an accident.

I'm not going to bother bolding or underling the bits that make it clear that there is still a potential offence here, as you seem determined to keep insisting on trying to derail this thread with stuff from another country.

The rules here in this country are clear, yes, they could be even more specific, but the latest version makes it clear, but you are insisting on trying to get people to ignore them.

Don't bother replying, I've just updated my ignore list, as it's clear that you have an inappropriate agenda, and are part of the problem rather than the solution

Sean Kinvarra

I've previously posted this but for some unknown reason Mr Expert has a fear of reading it.
https://www.bikerandbike.co.uk/undertaking-is-not-illegal/