Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

GreeBo

plodder wrote: »

If I am driving at 100km/h in lane 2 or 3 of the M50, passing slower traffic to my left, then I make no apology for preventing drivers behind me who want to break the speed limit, from passing me. They can slow down and wait until there is a decent break that allows me to comfortably move back into the lane to my left. As said before, the sooner there is automatic speed enforcement on the M50, that will soften the cough of these drivers.

Thanks for explaining why it is you drive incorrectly.
You are selfish and only care for yourself.
You are like the guy who pulls into the yellow box and then wonders what all the fuss is behind you.
I hope you get done by the cops repeatedly until you learn to drive properly.

If you can't comfortably pull back into the driving lane, maybe driving isn't for you....

I hope everyone of your journeys is held up by someone driving by your rules at 60kp/h.

Maybe then you will get it. I'm not hopeful though.

/ignored.

plodder

First Up wrote: »

I hear some radio ads from the RSA telling people to keep left on the M50 and only use the outer lanes for overtaking. I wonder will they start putting the message on the overhead gantrys?

In my opinion, the RSA ads at the moment lead to this attitude of "I have the right to go faster than you"

The advice they give applies to low traffic roads where it is easy to keep left, overtake and move back to the left. It does not reflect the reality of congested motorways like the M50, where sometimes it makes more sense to just keep going in whatever lane you are in, with a minimum of lane changing.

Raycyst

Simple maths to the rescue.

Travelling at 108 kilometers per hour is the same as 30 meters pe second.

The RSA suggest your stay 4 seconds behind other cars on wet weather. That is huge so we'll use half their suggested distance. 2 seconds or 60 meters at 108 kmh.

If you overtake a car at 108 kmh and the next car is 100m away, in wet weather, then, if you pull back into the left lane the gap between cars would be 50 meters or less. The RSA suggest 120 meters and half that is obviously 60 meters. You could hardly pull in and leave only 50 meters.

It'd be rude to pull back in and that's when the distance between cars is 100 meters, or longer than a football pitch.

The Bishop Basher

plodder wrote: »

In my opinion, the RSA ads at the moment lead to this attitude of "I have the right to go faster than you"

And your attitude in turn leads to the attitude of "well i'm driving fast enough so you can all just sit behind me in the "fast lane" until i decide to cross 3 lanes at the last minute and head for the off ramp".

plodder wrote: »

The advice they give applies to low traffic roads where it is easy to keep left, overtake and move back to the left. It does not reflect the reality of congested motorways like the M50,

The vast vast majority of the time the M50 is not congested at all. Ironically however, it almost always feels congested because of poor driving from people like you. Many posters have said they often sit in the driving lane as it moves freely. If the road was genuinely congested this wouldn't be possible

According to RAC research, you and your fellow lane hoggers reduce the capacity of the road by up to a third, That's incredibly significant and a leading cause of the congestion you mention.

No-one disagrees that there are times when it's impossible to apply good lane discipline due to very heavy traffic, such as a wet Monday morning in the middle of Winter, but these times are the exception not the rule.

plodder wrote: »

it makes more sense to just keep going in whatever lane you are in, with a minimum of lane changing.

No it doesn't because outside of those exceptional times, driving like this means you are creating the congestion.

Seriously, go and drive the M50 at 4am when most people are tucked up in their beds. I would guesstimate that at least 50% of the cars you meet (mostly taxis) will be sitting in the middle lane forcing the rest of us to either undertake or cross 2 lanes to pass.

Now translate that to 8am when it's busy. You still have the same percentage of cars hogging the middle lane only now there's lots more of them and due to increased volumes they've started hogging the outside lane too. It's no longer possible to cross 2 lanes to overtake so many of us end up undertaking in the driving lane, as described above, as the only other option is to suffer the inconvenience, frustration and "congestion" directly caused by you and and so many like you who either can't or won't drive correctly.

The fact that has to be explained to so many posters shows the extent of the problem. Delighted to see the RSA start to try and educate people but it's clear that won't be enough. Some people it seems will need a few hefty fines before they finally get the message. Here's hoping.

plodder

Swanner wrote: »

And your attitude in turn leads to the attitude of "well i'm driving fast enough so you can all just sit behind me in the "fast lane" until i decide to cross 3 lanes at the last minute and head for the off ramp".



The vast vast majority of the time the M50 is not congested at all. Ironically however, it almost always feels congested because of poor driving from people like you. Many posters have said they often sit in the driving lane as it moves freely. If the road was genuinely congested this wouldn't be possible

According to RAC research, you and your fellow lane hoggers reduce the capacity of the road by up to a third, That's incredibly significant and a leading cause of the congestion you mention.

No-one disagrees that there are times when it's impossible to apply good lane discipline due to very heavy traffic, such as a wet Monday morning in the middle of Winter, but these times are the exception not the rule.



No it doesn't because outside of those exceptional times, driving like this means you are creating the congestion.

Seriously, go and drive the M50 at 4am when most people are tucked up in their beds. I would guesstimate that at least 50% of the cars you meet (mostly taxis) will be sitting in the middle lane forcing the rest of us to either undertake or cross 2 lanes to pass.

Now translate that to 8am when it's busy. You still have the same percentage of cars hogging the middle lane only now there's lots more of them and due to increased volumes they've started hogging the outside lane too. It's no longer possible to cross 2 lanes to overtake so many of us end up undertaking in the driving lane, as described above, as the only other option is to suffer the inconvenience, frustration and "congestion" directly caused by you and and so many like you who either can't or won't drive correctly.

The fact that has to be explained to so many posters shows the extent of the problem. Delighted to see the RSA start to try and educate people but it's clear that won't be enough. Some people it seems will need a few hefty fines before they finally get the message. Here's hoping.

Not interested in getting into a personalised slagging match with you two. So, I'll just say this. The M50 isn't only congested on wet Mondays in Winter. It is busy/congested Monday to Friday all year round for a number of hours each day. The biggest problem that occurs is accidents and sudden braking manouvers that have knock on effects and cause accidents later, because some drivers feel entitled to break the speed limit, and/or drive significantly faster than the majority of other traffic. when the road is busy, by either tailgating aggressively, or undertaking at speed, after being "forced" to do so by drivers not moving out of their way quick enough (and indeed middle lane hoggers who should be in a lane to the left). Hopefully, the RSA will recognise that it's this aggressive anti-social behavior that causes accidents on the M50, rather than the relatively benign problem of middle lane hogging.

First Up

plodder wrote: »

Not interested in getting into a personalised slagging match with you two. So, I'll just say this. The M50 isn't only congested on wet Mondays in Winter. It is busy/congested Monday to Friday all year round for a number of hours each day. The biggest problem that occurs is accidents and sudden braking manouvers that have knock on effects and cause accidents later, because some drivers feel entitled to break the speed limit, and/or drive significantly faster than the majority of other traffic. when the road is busy, by either tailgating aggressively, or undertaking at speed, after being "forced" to do so by drivers not moving out of their way quick enough (and indeed middle lane hoggers who should be in a lane to the left). Hopefully, the RSA will recognise that it's this aggressive anti-social behavior that causes accidents on the M50, rather than the relatively benign problem of middle lane hogging.

In what way is taking the middle lane of a motorway out of use "relatively benign"?

The Bishop Basher

plodder wrote: »

Hopefully, the RSA will recognise that it's this aggressive anti-social behavior that causes accidents on the M50, rather than the relatively benign problem of middle lane hogging.

You clearly don't understand the effect middle lane hogging has on EVERYONE travelling behind you. There's absolutey nothing benign about habitually poor driving behaviour that reduces the capacity of the busiest road in the country by a third. In financial terms alone that is colossal. Never mind the frustration, erratic driving, tail gating, impatience, accidents and all the other problems that you rightly mention but which are often directly related to lane hogging.

I'm not suggesting for a second that these other issues don't exist independently and cause problems as well but you are vastly underestimating the effect of lane hogging.

But then lane hoggers never see the problem as the impact of their incompetent, selfish and arrogant driving is always behind them which is why rigorous enforcement with hefty fines is going to be crucial in solving the issue.

It's a very easy win for the state. If the cops ever decide to enforce this they'll have a field day. It's at such epidemic proportions that the sums raised could be put towards all sorts of good causes like improving cycle infrastructure or improved driver training. And that's before you factor the gains of increased capacity on the motorways.

It really is a no brainer when you think about it.

plodder

First Up wrote: »

In what way is taking the middle lane of a motorway out of use "relatively benign"?

Who said anything about taking it "out of use"? Seriously, it's this hyperbolic reacting to things that people haven't said, is what is driving this round in circles

and yes middle lane hogging is a relatively benign problem compared to speed merchants driving too fast, braking suddenly, causing the concertina effect with high risk of collisions, that we see nearly every day on the M50. I wouldn't expect the blinkered, get ahead at all costs types here to appreciate that though.

The Bishop Basher

plodder wrote: »

and yes middle lane hogging is a relatively benign problem compared to speed merchants driving too fast, braking suddenly, causing the concertina effect with high risk of collisions, that we see nearly every day on the M50. I wouldn't expect the blinkered, get ahead at all costs types here to appreciate that though.

if you don't get how lane hogging creates an even bigger concertina affect you clearly don't understand how a motorway works. From reading this thread it's a little scary just how many people don't.

Enforcement can't come soon enough. At least then, even if you still don't grasp the concept, you'll be forced to drive correctly and stop Inconveniencing hundreds of other drivers but until then let's just agree to disagree and we'll do our best to drive around you.

First Up

plodder wrote:

Who said anything about taking it "out of use"? Seriously, it's this hyperbolic reacting to things that people haven't said, is what is driving this round in circles

You didn't say it because you don't understand how a 3 lane motorway is supposed to work.

BillyBobBS

seachto7 wrote: »

Do what I do. Just touch the brake enough so the light comes on. Usually slows them down or just be pig ignorant and take your foot off the accelerator and gradually slow down and laugh at them as they pass you in a rage.
Better to be John Smith late than the late John Smith.

This is what i do personally. Some are more easily wound up than others :pac:

Charles Babbage

Yawns wrote: »

I'd like to see cameras installed along all motorways that tracks the cars as they are in the overtaking lanes with massive gaps in the diving lane. Automatic fines starting at €80 and increasing with each offence.

This is the way forward. Cars can now drive themselves, so the techniques for camera to be programmed to identify people acting the maggot. Tag the video, have a human review those sections tagged and send the fine and points in the post. And in response to whataboutery comments, these cameras should also be used to detect those cutting in the ramp from the overtaking lane and other loutery.

The Bishop Basher

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Tag the video, have a human review those sections tagged and send the fine and points in the post.

Couldnt agree more..

And given the general standard of driving on Irish roads the system would pay for itself in a week..

plodder

Yawns wrote: »

I'd like to see cameras installed along all motorways that tracks the cars as they are in the overtaking lanes with massive gaps in the diving lane. Automatic fines starting at €80 and increasing with each offence.

Exactly, massive gaps. Amazing what we are all agreed on. It seems I touched a raw nerve though, by calling people out on their aggressive tailgating and general angry attitude.

The suggestion won't happen though. Average speed limit cameras will solve the problem a different way.

plodder

Some of you people sound like the type of driver who joins the M50, goes straight to the inside lane because their intention is to overtake everyone, or at least to go as fast as possible. Then they wonder why the inside lane is full and the traffic is actually moving faster in the other lanes. What are all these people doing here? Get them out of my way. That's what this obsession with overtaking on busy motorways leads to. The Americans realised this decades ago, which is why they made it legal to undertake, and the safest way to get everyone moving from A to B in busy conditions is to have them all tootling along around the same speed, with the absolute minimum of lane changing.

Note. Even in the US there is still a general obligation for slower traffic to keep to the outside lane(s).

The Bishop Basher

Have you driven on the M50 ?

The inside lane is almost always the quietest lane because you and your buddies are all hogging the over taking lanes.

And this isn't the US although given the lane hoggers penchant for driving on the right you could be forgiven for thinking it is..

Thankfully though we don't look to the US when it come to driving standards.. 8 lanes of slow moving traffic ? No thanks..

Our European neighbours however get it right. Drive on an autobahn and you'll see how a motorway actually works. It's incredibly efficient because lane hoggers are not tolerated in any way shape or form.

First Up

plodder wrote:

Some of you people sound like the type of driver who joins the M50, goes straight to the inside lane because their intention is to overtake everyone, or at least to go as fast as possible. Then they wonder why the inside lane is full and the traffic is actually moving faster in the other lanes.

I think you have your lane terminology confused. The inside lane is the left lane (aka Lane 1), which is where you are supposed to be unless you have reason to be somewhere else.

BillyBobBS

plodder wrote: »

Some of you people sound like the type of driver who joins the M50, goes straight to the inside lane because their intention is to overtake everyone, or at least to go as fast as possible. Then they wonder why the inside lane is full and the traffic is actually moving faster in the other lanes. What are all these people doing here? Get them out of my way. That's what this obsession with overtaking on busy motorways leads to. The Americans realised this decades ago, which is why they made it legal to undertake, and the safest way to get everyone moving from A to B in busy conditions is to have them all tootling along around the same speed, with the absolute minimum of lane changing.

Note. Even in the US there is still a general obligation for slower traffic to keep to the outside lane(s).

I find Irish drivers on the whole to be some of the best in the world. Yes you get the odd clown in the fast lane thinking he's/she's Lewis Hamilton but overall the standard is excellent. Strict enforcement would sort out the clowns who think driving at 130klms an hour two car length behind another driver is acceptable. Massive fines and points will slow them right down.

If you want to see bad driving go to Russia, Italy or the middle east.

andersat2

I see the point why majority hogging middle line: M50 has so many exits (almost every 5 km), and traffic merging with M50 from left pushing people to middle line. Most of irish drivers afraid/not confident of changing lines (as 99% of all irish roads a single lines), so for them easiest way just to stay in middle line.
As for me: using M50 everyday and I'm absolutely not tolerating when at 6am or 11pm people driving in third or middle line while road is empty. I just cant stand that.

plodder

BillyBobBS wrote: »

I find Irish drivers on the whole to be some of the best in the world. Yes you get the odd clown in the fast lane thinking he's/she's Lewis Hamilton but overall the standard is excellent. Strict enforcement would sort out the clowns who think driving at 130klms an hour two car length behind another driver is acceptable. Massive fines and points will slow them right down.

If you want to see bad driving go to Russia, Italy or the middle east.

I agree generally speaking. Irish drivers are on whole fairly chilled and courteous compared to any other country I've driven in. London, Paris and worst of all, New York city drivers much more aggressive. I've lived in Germany and spent over a year there driving an Irish right hand drive car. German roads are definitely the best engineered anywhere and that more than driver behavior makes it easy there. I find it's the "Irish drivers are crap" brigade to be typically the least experienced but most dogmatic, thinking they know it all.

On inside vs outside lane. Apparently, in UK parlance it's inside for the left most/slowest lane. Never knew that. In the US, the inside lane is the one ... eh ... on the inside, ie the closest to the centre of the road, like the inside lane of a track. Oh well, best to say lane 1, 2 and 3 then.

One thing the RSA might consider towards improving the middle lane hogger problem is to get away from this idea that you need to change lane in order to allow entering traffic to merge. The main responsibility should be (and is) on the vehicle entering, but when conditions are very busy, it has to be safer to adjust your speed rather than change lane, to assist someone merging. If people didn't feel like they have to move from lane 1 to 2 at every junction, then they would be more likely to stay in lane 1 the whole time (same point made in post #270).

Alun

plodder wrote: »

I find it's the "Irish drivers are crap" brigade to be typically the least experienced but most dogmatic, thinking they know it all.

I drove in the UK, Germany and the Netherlands for a combined 25 years, before moving here, and, yes, Irish drivers are crap.

plodder

Alun wrote: »

I drove in the UK, Germany and the Netherlands for a combined 25 years, before moving here, and, yes, Irish drivers are crap.

in your opinion. Just like it's my opinion the other way. But, you should consider also the state of the roads before coming to your conclusion.

There is a level of consistency in road engineering in general (elsewhere) which makes driving so much easier in other places. Don't know if you would agree with that?

For example, I haven't come across another country that relies on painted arrows on the road to tell you what lane you need to be in; usually placed at a point where it's too late to change your mind. Most countries use signs placed well in advance. Little idiocies like that only make driving harder in unfamiliar places.

The Bishop Basher

Alun wrote: »

I drove in the UK, Germany and the Netherlands for a combined 25 years, before moving here, and, yes, Irish drivers are crap.

Agreed.

On occasion I collect and drop off colleagues to and from the airport and they're regularly amused at our inability to use lanes.

Invariably they also think we're crap..

The Bishop Basher

Had an unusual drive home from the airport last night..

All the way from the airport to just beyond the toll bridge, everyone, and I mean everyone, was using the appropriate lane. People were overtaking and moving back in left at the first opportunity. It was heaven.. I started to wonder if the recent RSA tweets were having an impact.. It was a clear demonstration of how the road could work and it was a pleasure to drive on.

Of course it all went to **** after the toll bridge with the usual arseholes hogging lanes 2 and 3 and holding up everyone behind them for miles and one particular gob****e in a 520d, weaving, tailgating and generally being a dick.

Got to the M11 / N11 interchange and a lad was merging by the Church where merging traffic doesn't get much time to build up speed. The traffic was moving well and I had plenty of space to move across so I did and as I passed him he waved in acknowledgement. As I pulled back into the driving lane ahead of him he flashed. I flicked on the hazards and he gave a second flash to acknowledge. Have to admit, it was a real feel good moment. Doesn't usually happen that way but if only all interactions were like that driving would be a real pleasure.

Anyway, i know i'm always quick to give out on these threads so thought i'd share a positive experience..

Maybe though, just maybe, we are making progress. Slowly converting one lane hogger at a time, bit by bit, one by one.. slowly but surely, Just maybe :-)

GreeBo

Swanner wrote: »

The traffic was moving well and I had plenty of space to move across so I did and as I passed him he waved in acknowledgement. As I pulled back into the driving lane ahead of him he flashed. I flicked on the hazards and he gave a second flash to acknowledge. Have to admit, it was a real feel good moment. Doesn't usually happen that way but if only all interactions were like that driving would be a real pleasure.

To be honest I think thats overkill...and dangerous.

The wave was sufficient, harzards and two sets of flashing is just distracting, for the driver and for any other drivers who are wondering why someone is flashing and why someone else is signalling a hazard ahead...

Still, nice to see that the motorway was moving nicely.

TheChizler

GreeBo wrote: »

To be honest I think thats overkill...and dangerous.

The wave was sufficient, harzards and two sets of flashing is just distracting, for the driver and for any other drivers who are wondering why someone is flashing and why someone else is signalling a hazard ahead...

As a victim of a head on collision because someone misinterpreted another driver's flash as a sign for all clear I second this!

The Bishop Basher

TheChizler wrote: »

As a victim of a head on collision because someone misinterpreted another driver's flash as a sign for all clear I second this!

I'm sorry to hear that and I hope you're doing ok..

But even allowing for a large dose of incompetence and / or stupidity, there was zero chance of a head on collision or any other kind of collision..

GreeBo wrote: »

To be honest I think thats overkill... and dangerous.

The second flash was overkill but it wasn't dangerous. Flash and hazards are used as a courtesy all over the country and on the continent in overtaking situations. It's a slow section of road and the traffic was well spaced.. there was nothing to misinterpret.

But I agree, flashing can be potentially dangerous where it could be perceived by another driver as permission to encroach in some way. That just wasn't the case here though.

TheChizler

Swanner wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear that and I hope you're doing ok..

But even allowing for a large dose of incompetence and / or stupidity, there was zero chance of a head on collision or any other kind of collision..

Cheers no injuries, victim is probably a strong word!

While it probably couldn't be misinterpreted in this case my own experience has made me think very differently about giving other people potentially unclear signals.

Sean Kinvarra

mfceiling wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I tend to potter along at about 130 on the motorway.

So what I usually do is just stay in the overtaking lane.

You do know you still have to move in to the left after completing your overtaking?

Overtaking is simply passing another vehicle on left or right. Its got nothing to do with moving back in or out of lanes.

Irish Steve

Oh dear, so little understanding of the courtesy signalling system that's almost universal amongst drivers of larger vehicles, especially those that are towing trailers. Used all the time as an indication from the driver of a vehicle that has just been passed, and it means "you are clear in front of me, and it's safe to move back into the lane to your left. I was very happy to receive lots of those sorts of signals on the Motorways between London and Holyhead last week when I had a car on a trailer on the back of my vehicle, even though it has very good wing mirrors that mean it's possible to see what's going on behind, it's a very helpful confirmation, especially in heavy traffic, and even more so at night, when judging when you are clear of the vehicle behind is more difficult. I was also happy to use the same system to help vehicles (like coaches) that had just passed me in the same way, it helps improve the traffic flow when you can move out of the way of faster traffic.

Doesn't remove the requirement to make absolutely sure that there's not another vehicle to the left of you before moving, but the only time that might happen is if you are passing a joining slip, or the vehicle you've just passed is not in the left most lane, but that's not a common issue, though the M50 is a problem here, as too often, people use the leftmost exit lane as a passing lane and then jump back out into the main carriageway, which can then result in a conflict and related problems.

patrickbrophy18

Okay, while I am frequently subjected to this by fellow drivers, let's get the terminology correct. It is......

OVERTAKING!

magentis

Irish Steve wrote: »

Oh dear, so little understanding of the courtesy signalling system that's almost universal amongst drivers of larger vehicles, especially those that are towing trailers. Used all the time as an indication from the driver of a vehicle that has just been passed, and it means "you are clear in front of me, and it's safe to move back into the lane to your left. I was very happy to receive lots of those sorts of signals on the Motorways between London and Holyhead last week when I had a car on a trailer on the back of my vehicle, even though it has very good wing mirrors that mean it's possible to see what's going on behind, it's a very helpful confirmation, especially in heavy traffic, and even more so at night, when judging when you are clear of the vehicle behind is more difficult. I was also happy to use the same system to help vehicles (like coaches) that had just passed me in the same way, it helps improve the traffic flow when you can move out of the way of faster traffic.

Doesn't remove the requirement to make absolutely sure that there's not another vehicle to the left of you before moving, but the only time that might happen is if you are passing a joining slip, or the vehicle you've just passed is not in the left most lane, but that's not a common issue, though the M50 is a problem here, as too often, people use the leftmost exit lane as a passing lane and then jump back out into the main carriageway, which can then result in a conflict and related problems.

Sorry,but towing a car on a trailer is not a large vehicle!

Irish Steve

magentis wrote: »

Sorry,but towing a car on a trailer is not a large vehicle!

The point I was making ( and was clearly lost on you) was about the courtesy system used by people like truck drivers, and coach drivers, or (like me towing a car on a trailer) other vehicles that for good reasons can't travel at the maximum speed limit (or above).

Using a light flash to let the overtaking driver know they are clear is a well established and widely recognised way to help other drivers on the road.

A long time ago, not here in Ireland, we had a car recovery vehicle that when also towing a trailer measured out at 52Ft overall, and if I was driving that on a wet day on the motorways, I was very happy to get a "clear" flash, due to the length of that combination.

And off topic, but that's the norm these days, the largest thing I've towed was 232 Ft long, and 195 Ft wide, and to avoid hassles, some of the positioning had to be accurate to less than 12".

the_pen_turner

Irish Steve wrote: »

The point I was making ( and was clearly lost on you) was about the courtesy system used by people like truck drivers, and coach drivers, or (like me towing a car on a trailer) other vehicles that for good reasons can't travel at the maximum speed limit (or above).

Using a light flash to let the overtaking driver know they are clear is a well established and widely recognised way to help other drivers on the road.

A long time ago, not here in Ireland, we had a car recovery vehicle that when also towing a trailer measured out at 52Ft overall, and if I was driving that on a wet day on the motorways, I was very happy to get a "clear" flash, due to the length of that combination.

And off topic, but that's the norm these days, the largest thing I've towed was 232 Ft long, and 195 Ft wide, and to avoid hassles, some of the positioning had to be accurate to less than 12".

what were moving , a small village. you cant leave it there.

mfceiling

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

Overtaking is simply passing another vehicle on left or right. Its got nothing to do with moving back in or out of lanes.

Eh yeah it has. There are 2 lanes on a motorway. The left hand lane is the driving lane. If you encounter a vehicle in front of you moving slower than you then you overtake it by moving into the right lane (the overtaking lane). After passing the vehicle you should move back to the left lane.

It's really that simple.

TheChizler

mfceiling wrote: »

Eh yeah it has. There are 2 lanes on a motorway. The left hand lane is the driving lane. If you encounter a vehicle in front of you moving slower than you then you overtake it by moving into the right lane (the overtaking lane). After passing the vehicle you should move back to the left lane.

It's really that simple.

So if you move straight into the right lane getting on the M8 in Cork and stay on until exiting the M50 having passed 200 cars on the way you wouldn't have overtaken a single one of them?

L1011

Pissing around what is and isn't overtaking doesn't ever get over the simple requirement to keep left.

Its an annoyance on two lane roads, but the idiocy on three lane roads is the worst. Have seen many cars enter the M50, M1, N4 or N7 at sub-80k (when the mainline is running at 100k) and immediately wobble to the middle lane. In some The Purge style society I'd have their licence removed and cars crushed for entering below running speed let alone the middle lane stuff.

I'm rather glad I can get the train to work these days...

Isambard

the term "overtake" means to pass.
To use the term "undertake" is not correct as in this instance under is not the opposite of over.
To overtake on the right is the correct procedure, to overtake on the left, in most cases, is not legal.
Which lane you were in and whether you moved lane has no bearing on that.

mfceiling

TheChizler wrote: »

So if you move straight into the right lane getting on the M8 in Cork and stay on until exiting the M50 having passed 200 cars on the way you wouldn't have overtaken a single one of them?

What? Of course you would have overtaken them. It's the pricks who stay in the outside lane when there is no traffic in the left lane who need shot.
So simple...not overtaking - stay left.

magicbastarder

Isambard wrote: »

the term "overtake" means to pass.
To use the term "undertake" is not correct as in this instance under is not the opposite of over.

why do people get hung up on this? what people mean by 'undertake' is pretty well understood, and to the best of my knowledge, is not a phrase which has a different, more legitimate meaning.

Isambard

magicbastarder wrote: »

why do people get hung up on this? what people mean by 'undertake' is pretty well understood, and to the best of my knowledge, is not a phrase which has a different, more legitimate meaning.

I bow to your superior knowledge. A cyclist would I imagine know more about undertaking than most :-)

TheChizler

mfceiling wrote: »

What? Of course you would have overtaken them. It's the pricks who stay in the outside lane when there is no traffic in the left lane who need shot.
So simple...not overtaking - stay left.

Yes. There were people earlier in the thread arguing that you legally could pass on the left as it technically wasn't an overtake because they weren't changing lanes to do it, I thought you had joined their ranks!

mfceiling

TheChizler wrote: »

Yes. There were people earlier in the thread arguing that you legally could pass on the left as it technically wasn't an overtake because they weren't changing lanes to do it, I thought you had joined their ranks!

Jaysus no!!

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

eagle eye

Thankfully I rarely need to travel to Dublin anymore. I just hate driving up there nowadays. It's similar to a lot of large cities, you just have lots of lunatics and stressed out people.

Irish Steve

the_pen_turner wrote: »

what were moving , a small village. you cant leave it there.

Boeing 747's, albeit at low speeds due to the weight, the tow tractors are powerful, but not designed for speed!

degsie

Lane changing is when accidents are most likely to happen. This is why I prefer to stay Lane 1, instead of doing the Lane 1 - Lane 2 - Lane 3 - Lane 2 - Lane 1 switcharoo.

Praetorian

I passed my car test about 15 years ago and the driving test was not fit for purpose back then. It's 2017 and I passed my bike test this year and it's still not fit for purpose now. There should be mandatory training on motorways and for night driving like there is in Germany. At least the former should be in the test. My missus is German and I drive in Europe all the time. They just follow the rules better over there in general. I get quite embarrassed when we have family / friends over from Germany with how bad Irish drivers are.

I would love to drive properly on a motorway, but even drivers who know what they should be doing like myself lane hog. Through absolute frustration I will undertake also if it seems safe to do so.

It can be a very frustrating country to drive in

First Up

degsie wrote: »

Lane changing is when accidents are most likely to happen. This is why I prefer to stay Lane 1, instead of doing the Lane 1 - Lane 2 - Lane 3 - Lane 2 - Lane 1 switcharoo.

Its a dilemma isn't it?

If a clown is dozing along in the middle lane, the safest thing is often to pass him on the inside but strictly speaking you are supposed to make four lane changes, all because an idiot doesn't know how to use a motorway properly.

AlekSmart

First Up wrote: »

Its a dilemma isn't it?

If a clown is dozing along in the middle lane, the safest thing is often to pass him on the inside but strictly speaking you are supposed to make four lane changes, all because an idiot doesn't know how to use a motorway properly.

Probably the most sensible post in this thread.

Approach,assess and take the safest possible option,for the conditions prevailing.