Tailgating and Undertaking on Motorways

GreeBo

Baralis1 wrote: »

You're probably right TherapyBoy. I'm just so annoyed sometimes at some of the absolute assholes on the road putting me and other drivers at risk. I see it on a daily basis.
Maybe I should try and move in as soon as someone tailgates and just report their reg number to the Gardai.

FFS
Just move in when you are not overtaking!!!
Forget about anyone behind you and what they are or are not doing.

mfceiling

GreeBo wrote: »

The person driving at 80km/h is not the one causing the problem there...

If you are expecting everyone on the road to be driving at the same speed you are then you need to rethink your approach to driving.

You are so wrong here buddy. You see no problem with someone sitting in the outside lane at 80kmh but the person causing the problem is the one who is legally overtaking traffic at 120kmh and suddenly comes up behind the moron crawling in the overtaking lane.

You don't expect everyone to be travelling at the same speed as you but on a motorway it's reasonable to expect the traffic to be moving at a decent pace.

I'm always super aware on a motorway of my speed (cruise control) because of the added braking distances etc of vehicles but I've met some fools tipping along at 70 - 80 kmh in the overtaking lane on an otherwise empty road. If I'm in the driving lane doing 120kmh and I come upon someone in the overtaking lane at 80kmh who is the problem?

GreeBo

mfceiling wrote: »

You are so wrong here buddy. You see no problem with someone sitting in the outside lane at 80kmh but the person causing the problem is the one who is legally overtaking traffic at 120kmh and suddenly comes up behind the moron crawling in the overtaking lane.

You don't expect everyone to be travelling at the same speed as you but on a motorway it's reasonable to expect the traffic to be moving at a decent pace.

I'm always super aware on a motorway of my speed (cruise control) because of the added braking distances etc of vehicles but I've met some fools tipping along at 70 - 80 kmh in the overtaking lane on an otherwise empty road. If I'm in the driving lane doing 120kmh and I come upon someone in the overtaking lane at 80kmh who is the problem?

No, thats not what I said.
A person can easily be overtaking at 80 in the outside lane, they are not causing a problem unless you are driving unaware.

I never once said they should be there if they are not overatking.
In fact if you read any of my other posts you can probably guess how I feel about lane hoggers.

Sean Kinvarra

Deleted User wrote: »

siobhan08 wrote: »

Nope the root cause of it is ignorance and inability to obey the rules of the road. Main one being the speed limit. If you are in the left hand lane or the overtaking lane the speed limit is still 120

siobhan08 wrote: »

I was going a good bit over the speed limit

The irony

"The root cause of it is ignorance and inability to obay the rules of the road. main one being the speed limit"....... "I was going a good bit over the speed limit" LOL Did you ever think of becoming a comedian?

Sean Kinvarra

Dravokivich wrote: »

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

A what? Where?



yes

50 km/h is the minimum maximum speed for a vehicle on motorways in Ireland.

80 km/h is not slow.

50km/h is the minimum maximum speed for a vehicle on motorways in Ireland".
I've always thought the maximum was 120kmh unless otherwise stated .

Alun

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

50km/h is the minimum maximum speed for a vehicle on motorways in Ireland".
I've always thought the maximum was 120kmh unless otherwise stated .

What he's (probably) trying to say is that to be allowed on a motorway in Ireland, you have to be driving a vehicle that is capable of driving at a minimum of 50km/h. Once on it you can, rather perversely, drive as slowly as you like.

the_pen_turner

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

50km/h is the minimum maximum speed for a vehicle on motorways in Ireland".
I've always thought the maximum was 120kmh unless otherwise stated .

where do that you have to be doing 50km .

there is a rule that your vehicle must be capable of doing over 50km but doesn't say you have to do it.

Dravokivich

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

50km/h is the minimum maximum speed for a vehicle on motorways in Ireland".
I've always thought the maximum was 120kmh unless otherwise stated .

Do you drive in Ireland ?

Rubberchikken

I drove cork to Dublin lately. Average 80 the whole way. Happy out in the left lane. No bother from anyone. Those that wanted to go faster just overtook ( which was most ill admit :rolleyes:

Isambard

Rubberchikken wrote: »

I drove cork to Dublin lately. Average 80 the whole way. Happy out in the left lane. No bother from anyone. Those that wanted to go faster just overtook ( which was most ill admit :rolleyes:

that's fine but a bit unfair on the truckers who are on a schedule and not legally allowed to overtake you

Alun

Rubberchikken wrote: »

I drove cork to Dublin lately. Average 80 the whole way. Happy out in the left lane. No bother from anyone. Those that wanted to go faster just overtook ( which was most ill admit :rolleyes:

Why in the name of all that is holy would any sane person want to do that? It's boring enough having to stick to 120 km/h. I think I'd fall asleep driving that slowly on a motorway for that distance.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

magicbastarder

Alun wrote: »

Why in the name of all that is holy would any sane person want to do that? It's boring enough having to stick to 120 km/h. I think I'd fall asleep driving that slowly on a motorway for that distance.

i usually stick to 90 or 95 on the motorway. maybe it comes from having spent a couple of years driving around ireland for work, back before the motorway network was built. i quickly learned back then that it was not how fast you went on the fast sections which determined how long your journey would take, but how slow you went on the slow sections.

anyway, if you're conscious of budget, 80km/h will burn much less fuel. it's also more relaxing and some people may feel more comfortable at that speed. in a metaphorical and literal sense - your mileage may vary.

ArnieSilvia

Tombo2001 wrote:

EDIT - And I'm not explicitly saying Bitcoin is a bubble. I am simply saying 0 if you are buying this thing, understand what the reasons are for buying it - why is it good value at this price. If you cant answer that, then why are you buying it.

magicbastarder wrote:

i usually stick to 90 or 95 on the motorway. maybe it comes from having spent a couple of years driving around ireland for work, back before the motorway network was built. i quickly learned back then that it was not how fast you went on the fast sections which determined how long your journey would take, but how slow you went on the slow sections.

magicbastarder wrote:

anyway, if you're conscious of budget, 80km/h will burn much less fuel. it's also more relaxing and some people may feel more comfortable at that speed. in a metaphorical and literal sense - your mileage may vary.

At 80kph you are a danger to others, the difference in speed is at least 40kph, this has nothing to do with safety

degsie

Rubberchikken wrote: »

I drove cork to Dublin lately. Average 80 the whole way. Happy out in the left lane. No bother from anyone. Those that wanted to go faster just overtook ( which was most ill admit :rolleyes:

You drive a Micra by any chance?

magicbastarder

to be fair, if you are a danger to others doing 80, the danger is their creation.
they should be able to cope with someone doing 0 on the motorway.

magicbastarder

ArnieSilvia wrote: »

the difference in speed is at least 40kph,

just noticed this.
emphasis mine, words are yours. they're the ones breaking the speed limit if they're doing more than 40km/h faster than 80km/h.

Sean Kinvarra

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Ayleen Damp Saltshaker wrote: »

wtf is a driving lane?

The lane you should be driving in, unless overtaking.

Its the lane you MUST drive in , unless overtaking. There's a difference, not many people understand.

Cookie_Monster

Dravokivich wrote: »

50 km/h is the minimum maximum speed for a vehicle on motorways in Ireland.

the vehicle only has to be capable of doing 50, there's no requirement to actually be doing 50.

Sean Kinvarra

shar01 wrote: »

In a couple of hours time, I'm going to be joining the M50 at Cherrywood to head to the airport.

Any time when I'm on the M50 and the traffic is relatively light, I get into the left lane after Sandyford, stick the cruise control on at 100km and, except for having to move into the middle lane where there is merging traffic, I will spend most of the journey in the left hand lane. I guarantee you I will undertake many cars pootling along in the middle lane.

What I'm doing is illegal but as there's no enforcement... big swinging mickey!

You are not doing anything wrong by sticking to the driving lane. The rules on undertaking are the same as in UK.

https://www.bikerandbike.co.uk/undertaking-is-not-illegal/

Sean Kinvarra

siobhan08 wrote: »

Tigger wrote: »

what van does 180?
you were doing 150? you were accelerating up to 150kmph which is what 95 miles an hour and you were under taken by two vehicles??

is that what you are saying cos i'm incredulous

Yes that's exactly what happen. I was doing that speed to get by the line of traffic as fast as possible to get the Ahole in the van off my arse as quickly as possible. 180 was a rough estimate going by my speed of 150 and how quickly he dusted me on the inside and the other vechicles ahead. He was so far into the distance that he was totally gone from my sight within a about 3 minutes.

I never usually go so fast but was very conscious of the moron so close to me that I wanted to clear the traffic as fast possible to enable me to get out of his way. Which he didn't even give me the opportunity to do so because he cut in as soon as there was any type of large gap into the left lane.

That fact that I was going that speed and was tailgated and undertaken is what I found so astonishing. Like what speed is fast enough for those idiots ??

Siobhan darling, if you're committing an offence of driving 30km over the speed limit then you should not complain about other dangerous drivers.

Irish Steve

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

You are not doing anything wrong by sticking to the driving lane. The rules on undertaking are the same as in UK.

https://www.bikerandbike.co.uk/undertaking-is-not-illegal/

The OPINION quoted from a motorcycling site is NOT the rules, it is an interpretation of the rules, and NOT legally binding. It may well also be the case that some judges are taking a realistic view of what actually happens on a regular basis, but the official "guidance" is still overtake on the right.

And yes, it's often the case that Lane 1 of the M50 is the fastest moving lane, unless there are a lot of HGV's about, which can make for problems, but that's very much down to the issue of people coming down the slip to join, and heading straight into Lane 2 or 3, regardless of the traffic volumes or speeds, and ignoring the fact that Lane 1 even exists.

Even worse are the same eejits that stick to Lane 3 until 100 Mtrs before the exit, and then bully their way across all the lanes to exit, regardless of the problems they cause for other people that have the misfortune to be in their way. The worst of the lot are the ones that having forced their way into Lane 1, they discover that the exit slip is full of the queue that they conveniently ignored for the last half mile, so they then stop in lane 1 until someone takes pity on them and lets them join the queue.

I would love to see the American concept of a hard barrier between Lane 1 & 2 for half a mile before and after each junction, and a hard barrier on the edges of the areas that are not driving lanes, they might put manners on some of the gob****es that refuse to drive in a reasonable and acceptable manner.

I have to admit, I am very happy that I rarely have to use the M50 at peak periods now, the stress on that road during peak periods is something I don't miss at all.

Sean Kinvarra

Irish Steve wrote: »

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

You are not doing anything wrong by sticking to the driving lane. The rules on undertaking are the same as in UK.

https://www.bikerandbike.co.uk/undertaking-is-not-illegal/

The OPINION quoted from a motorcycling site is NOT the rules, it is an interpretation of the rules, and NOT legally binding. It may well also be the case that some judges are taking a realistic view of what actually happens on a regular basis, but the official "guidance" is still overtake on the right.

And yes, it's often the case that Lane 1 of the M50 is the fastest moving lane, unless there are a lot of HGV's about, which can make for problems, but that's very much down to the issue of people coming down the slip to join, and heading straight into Lane 2 or 3, regardless of the traffic volumes or speeds, and ignoring the fact that Lane 1 even exists.

Even worse are the same eejits that stick to Lane 3 until 100 Mtrs before the exit, and then bully their way across all the lanes to exit, regardless of the problems they cause for other people that have the misfortune to be in their way. The worst of the lot are the ones that having forced their way into Lane 1, they discover that the exit slip is full of the queue that they conveniently ignored for the last half mile, so they then stop in lane 1 until someone takes pity on them and lets them join the queue.

I would love to see the American concept of a hard barrier between Lane 1 & 2 for half a mile before and after each junction, and a hard barrier on the edges of the areas that are not driving lanes, they might put manners on some of the gob****es that refuse to drive in a reasonable and acceptable manner.

I have to admit, I am very happy that I rarely have to use the M50 at peak periods now, the stress on that road during peak periods is something I don't miss at all.

Most of the rules in the Highway. Code are advisory wording ie you Do Not, Should Not, Only as you might see a sign Left turn only, they are all advisory. Where the words Must/ Must Not are used it makes this rule a legal requirement and correct interpretation. Rule 268 of the highway code in relation to passing on left or undertaking states that you "do not", which makes that rule only advisory and NOT law. So Tony Carter is correct in saying Undertaking is not illegal nor hasn't been since 1972.

Sean Kinvarra

Dravokivich wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

Mmmm. Think about it:

Somebody is dozing along in the middle lane at 80 in a 100 kph zone. You sit in at the same speed in Lane 1. So that's two lanes blocked doing 80, forcing everyone who wants to go (legally) a bit quicker into Lane 3.

You think that's making the road safer?

We are expected to over take when safe to do so, to the right. Taking matters into your own hands going by'em along the left is bringing risk into it. It's by far the laziest option to get around them and is by no means the safest.

How is making 4 lane changes plus an overtake safer than just legally passing on left? Have you ever driven in UK or US just to mention 2 of the many countries where it's legal? Just as well we don't have 5,6 or 7 plus lanes, would you stay in lane 1 to the same speed as a hogger who is in lane 6?.

GreeBo

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

How is making 4 lane changes plus an overtake safer than just legally passing on left? Have you ever driven in UK or US just to mention 2 of the many countries where it's legal? Just as well we don't have 5,6 or 7 plus lanes, would you stay in lane 1 to the same speed as a hogger who is in lane 6?.

So you must keep a running tally of the cars you overtake on each journey and then stop overtaking after a certain limit...right?
Since, yunno, overtaking is dangerous so you should limit the amount of times you do it.

Actually, we should ALL just drive in lane 3, WAY safer!

They also drive on the right in the U.S...should we do that too?

jjmacf

Let's be honest, Irish drivers obey the rules more in transgression than obeyance. How many time do you see cars parked on double yellow lines, especially outside Dublin where no traffic wardens? How many times do you see cars exceeding the speed limit? Never mind small demeanours like indicating appropriately! The clear lack is in enforcement. I've lived 38 years in Ireland, stopped a couple of times by Garda for tax/insurance. Lived in UK 9 years, stopped once for tax/insurance, once for breathlyser, and once for full vehicle check. We have to work on enforcement and penalties!

jjmacf

The other major transgression is jumping amber/red lights - widespread. Traffic Cams and penalties is the only way to prevent accidents.

Sean Kinvarra

GreeBo wrote: »

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

How is making 4 lane changes plus an overtake safer than just legally passing on left? Have you ever driven in UK or US just to mention 2 of the many countries where it's legal? Just as well we don't have 5,6 or 7 plus lanes, would you stay in lane 1 to the same speed as a hogger who is in lane 6?.

So you must keep a running tally of the cars you overtake on each journey and then stop overtaking after a certain limit...right?
Since, yunno, overtaking is dangerous so you should limit the amount of times you do it.

Actually, we should ALL just drive in lane 3, WAY safer!

They also drive on the right in the U.S...should we do that too?

If overtaking is dangerous then you should do the descent thing and hand in your licence to your local guards station. Its also up to yourself if you want to drive on the right. But take my advice and don't do it, there's enough people killed on Irish roads.

Sean Kinvarra

GreeBo wrote: »

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

How is making 4 lane changes plus an overtake safer than just legally passing on left? Have you ever driven in UK or US just to mention 2 of the many countries where it's legal? Just as well we don't have 5,6 or 7 plus lanes, would you stay in lane 1 to the same speed as a hogger who is in lane 6?.

So you must keep a running tally of the cars you overtake on each journey and then stop overtaking after a certain limit...right?
Since, yunno, overtaking is dangerous so you should limit the amount of times you do it.

Actually, we should ALL just drive in lane 3, WAY safer!

They also drive on the right in the U.S...should we do that too?

If overtaking is dangerous then you should do the descent thing and hand in your licence to your local guards station. Its also up to yourself if you want to drive on the right. But take my advice and don't do it, there's enough people killed on Irish roads.

GreeBo

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

If overtaking is dangerous then you should do the descent thing and hand in your licence to your local guards station. Its also up to yourself if you want to drive on the right. But take my advice and don't do it, there's enough people killed on Irish roads.

So... now you are arguing with yourself...?

Sean Kinvarra

GreeBo wrote: »

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

If overtaking is dangerous then you should do the descent thing and hand in your licence to your local guards station. Its also up to yourself if you want to drive on the right. But take my advice and don't do it, there's enough people killed on Irish roads.

So... now you are arguing with yourself...?

Hi Yourself, is that your sir name, and are you from the middle east?

Sean Kinvarra

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Diemos wrote: »

What you are describing there is not undertaking, although you are passing on the near side of a vehicle. As a result it is not illegal, though more caution should be excerised, because you know, people are idiots.

It is illegal. There is no legal definition of "undertaking", but you may only pass on the left in 3 situations, and slow numpty in the middle lane is not one of them.

There is no legal definition of "slow moving traffic" either. Neither is there one for "lane filtering" in the IS book. Overtaking on left also called undertaking is legal in R of Ireland and UK.

GreeBo

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

There is no legal definition of "slow moving traffic" either. Neither is there one for "lane filtering" in the IS book. Overtaking on left also called undertaking is legal in R of Ireland and UK.

Tell it to the cops when they hopefully catch you and pull you over.

Sean Kinvarra

GreeBo wrote: »

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

There is no legal definition of "slow moving traffic" either. Neither is there one for "lane filtering" in the IS book. Overtaking on left also called undertaking is legal in R of Ireland and UK.

Tell it to the cops when they hopefully catch you and pull you over.

The garda traffic corps along with UK police know that undertaking is not an offence. The guilty one is the lane hogger. Are you seriously saying the police will pull all those who in lanes 1,2 and 3 who pass the hogger in lane 4 who is committing a criminal offence?🀣🀣🀣🀣

Sean Kinvarra

GreeBo wrote: »

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

There is no legal definition of "slow moving traffic" either. Neither is there one for "lane filtering" in the IS book. Overtaking on left also called undertaking is legal in R of Ireland and UK.

Tell it to the cops when they hopefully catch you and pull you over.

And you seriously think the cops will pull me in for not committing any offence yet ignore the hogger who is committing a criminal offence? 🀣🀣

Hugh Jampton

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

And you seriously think the cops will pull me in for not committing any offence yet ignore the hogger who is committing a criminal offence? 🀣🀣

Maybe not, but we'd all love to see the fella pulled who tailgates and flashes in the overtaking lane at 140 km/h plus.

GreeBo

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

The garda traffic corps along with UK police know that undertaking is not an offence. The guilty one is the lane hogger. Are you seriously saying the police will pull all those who in lanes 1,2 and 3 who pass the hogger in lane 4 who is committing a criminal offence?��������

Yes, I've seen it done.
Irrespective of the number of posts or currencies you use.

Sean Kinvarra

Hugh Jampton wrote: »

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

And you seriously think the cops will pull me in for not committing any offence yet ignore the hogger who is committing a criminal offence? 🀣🀣

Maybe not, but we'd all love to see the fella pulled who tailgates and flashes in the overtaking lane at 140 km/h plus.

So would I. Tailgating causes mult ivehicle pileups, So does idiots who make multi lane changes to pass a hogger while the driving lane is empty. Greebo is a typical one of those. Tailgating along with lane changing are the main cause of motorway crashes, and people often wonder why we have empty driving lanes!

Capt'n Midnight

flaneur wrote: »

The two most dangerous issues I encounter here are (in order of risk).

1. Inability to merge properly.

Worst I've seen is Citywest beside the garage. There's a very tight turn so you've no speed, but there's a nice long acceleration lane that becomes a hard shoulder. Even though there's no visibility because of the bridge I've seen morons just pull straight out onto the Naas road.

At this stage I've people ignore acceleration lanes so often that I'd insist on a solid white line for at least the first 100m on them, if only to protect the idiot designers from a justifiable, given the standard of Irish driving, charge of manslaughter.


And yes these suicidal idiots who try to pull out in front of an artic in a yaris or Micra while doing 30Kph less than them are about the only justification for middle lane driving. And then only at poorly designed or marked junctions.

Sean Kinvarra

RayM wrote: »

Swanner wrote: »

From what you've written here OP, you were the problem. If other cars were able to undertake you, it means you were in the overtaking lane while not overtaking and given that this is a daily occurance which slows up the entire motorway network for everyone, many of us have little tolerance for drivers like you.

From what you've written, it looks like you didn't read the OP's posts properly. She was about to indicate to leave the overtaking lane, having just overtaken a few other cars, when the cars behind her, which were tailgating (which is illegal) decided to undertake (which is also illegal, and should only be done as a last resort). I see this sort of thing all the time.

Driving would be a far more pleasant experience if people were more tolerant and patient, and less aggressive. And even if someone is lane-hogging, there is never any excuse for tailgating.

She should have indicated as soon as she past the car to her left and not wait until the car behind her started to move in. That car would have noticed she wanted to move back in and would have stayed in his lane. You don't wait until you get to a left turn to start indicating. You should do it well in advance.

Sean Kinvarra

Del2005 wrote: »

siobhan08 wrote: »

Are you forgetting the whole Mirror Signal manoeuvre from learning to drive?

Like I have said a few times, I was checking my mirror when I saw them pull Inside. Being patient for 5 seconds is what was needed.

Regardless of what I was doing they shouldn't have been doing what they did. At one point they were probably as close as 2-3 feet. God only know what could have happen if I had to brake suddenly

You don't drive on a motorway when learning to drive. Motorway driving is a different skill and in it using your indicators to signal that you are aware of the vehicle behind by signaling left means that the following vehicle knows that you are awake and will pull over when the overtake is finished. By not signaling you just look like the thousands of other drivers who think that they are entitled to sit in the "fast lane " as they are going "fast", it's an overtaking lane.

The location of the express lane in the overtaking lane of the motorway is partially to blame for this by making people with tags think that they have to use the express lane even if they aren't confident enough to travel at the required speed. Move the express lane to the driving lane and then the problem will be partially solved.

And btw undertaking is NOT illegal. Weaving in and out of lanes to do so is.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

manonboard

dunleakelleher wrote: »

you can indicate your intention to pull in even before you clear the car you are overtaking. the driver behind will see a flashing orange/yellow light that will tell him that you intend to pull over.

Could a few people advise me on this statement above?

When i was doing my lessons about 8 years ago. I was advised not to signal my intention unless the conditions (space) were available. To do otherwise, would mean i intend to pull into a space that is not ok to pull into yet.
I thought the proper procedure was to check for the conditions first, then signal intent, then complete maneuver.

Thanks

Sean Kinvarra

manonboard wrote: »

dunleakelleher wrote: »

you can indicate your intention to pull in even before you clear the car you are overtaking. the driver behind will see a flashing orange/yellow light that will tell him that you intend to pull over.

Could a few people advise me on this statement above?

When i was doing my lessons about 8 years ago. I was advised not to signal my intention unless the conditions (space) were available. To do otherwise, would mean i intend to pull into a space that is not ok to pull into yet.
I thought the proper procedure was to check for the conditions first, then signal intent, then complete maneuver.

Thanks

Dunleakelleher is correct in when to use the indicator. But your instructor was wrong to say you shouldn't indicate until a space is available. You should give the traffic already in that lane an indication of your intent. Your instructor expects you to indicate and change lanes in one sequence. On the other hand if there is only one or two cars in that lane and nothing behind you then you should wait until last car has passed to indicate.

Irish Steve

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

And yes these suicidal idiots who try to pull out in front of an artic in a yaris or Micra while doing 30Kph less than them are about the only justification for middle lane driving. And then only at poorly designed or marked junctions.

Valid points, but in the defence of some slow moving vehicles joining, have you ever tried joining N7 outbound to M50 North, or N4 outbound to M50 North, in both cases, the descending turn is so tight that much above 30 Kph is plenty fast enough (as well as being the official speed limit), and trying to accelerate to 100 Kph in the available slip distance is impossible in something like a low power 4 x 4 pick up, they don't have the acceleration to do it in the distance available, and to make it worse, there's no alternative to avoid having to force the way into Lane 1 at whatever speed has been achieved in the distance available, as the fast moving second north bound slip is also coming in to play on the left.

Sean Kinvarra

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I haven't been following all that closely as it's probably in the 'round in circles' stage by now, but that is extremely wrong and just the ramblings of someone who wants to suit themselves on the roads.

Edit - unless you're talking about another country.[/quote]
Its the hogger is the one who wants to suit themselves. If undertaking is extremely wrong and a criminal offence then why is it legal in N.Ireland?

Cookie_Monster

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

Its the hogger is the one who wants to suit themselves. If undertaking is extremely wrong and a criminal offence then why is it legal in N.Ireland?

what does the legality of it in another country have to do with anything. Turning left on red in legal in the states, doesn't mean anything here.

You've yet to prove legality in the UK though, just some opinion piece is the only thing you've posted.

GreeBo

Sean Kinvarra wrote: »

So would I. Tailgating causes mult ivehicle pileups, So does idiots who make multi lane changes to pass a hogger while the driving lane is empty. Greebo is a typical one of those. Tailgating along with lane changing are the main cause of motorway crashes, and people often wonder why we have empty driving lanes!

Perhaps a refresher lesson is in order if you find overtaking so difficult?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Wishbone Ash

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

..Turning left on red in legal in the states...

Turning right (in the US)