Landlord proposing 50% rent increase or he will renovate

Nordie Durdle

Myself and my partner are living in a one-bed apartment in Drumcondra, it's quite small and an old apartment but in good shape. We are living in it two years this month and yesterday the landlord proposed increasing the rent from €1000 to €1500, the alternative is that we can move out and he will renovate.

He didn't actually make the call himself, his inbetween guy he has to do his dirty work suggested that he will make life difficult for us if we don't accept a hefty increase and try to go by the law.

My partner is in her dream job but it doesnt pay very well and I work in IT but a two year contract just finished and I'm looking for work...so great timing

He gave us 24 hours to think about it. Any advice before I make the call? The guy is a solicitor and has about 200 properties so he's not going to be easy to negotiate with.

myshirt

Just think of all the 500 euros you have saved by avoiding an increase up to this point. 1,500 is there or thereabouts the going rate.

Can you afford it? Do you want to stay?

If so, take it.

GingerLily

You could accept it and then make a claim against him once you have proof he's illegally upped the rent? Disgraceful that he's acting like such a crook!

Gatling

He can increase by 4% not 50 he's chancing his luck with you

liger

Nordie Durdle wrote: »

Myself and my partner are living in a one-bed apartment in Drumcondra, it's quite small and an old apartment but in good shape. We are living in it two years this month and yesterday the landlord proposed increasing the rent from €1000 to €1500, the alternative is that we can move out and he will renovate.

He didn't actually make the call himself, his inbetween guy he has to do his dirty work suggested that he will make life difficult for us if we don't accept a hefty increase and try to go by the law.

My partner is in her dream job but it doesnt pay very well and I work in IT but a two year contract just finished and I'm looking for work...so great timing

He gave us 24 hours to think about it. Any advice before I make the call? The guy is a solicitor and has about 200 properties so he's not going to be easy to negotiate with.

I would refuse to speak to them about it over phone/in person. Insist all proposals for rent increase are in writing, letter or email. otherwise you will continue your tenancy at the previous agreed rate.

Kintarō Hattori

Can he actually put the rent up by 50%? I thought that was illegal and isn't he supposed to get 90 days notice?

maximoose

myshirt wrote: »

Just think of all the 500 euros you have saved by avoiding an increase up to this point. 1,500 is there or thereabouts the going rate.

Can you afford it? Do you want to stay?

If so, take it.

Seriously? This is terrible advice justifying dodgy landlords.

He can't up the rent 500 quid, and he's essentially trying to blackmail you into accepting it with the threat of renovation. I'd report to the RTB and start looking to move, not the kind of person you want to be dealing with.

Tell him you require written notice if he wants to vacate (over 2 years you should be entitled to 8 weeks notice).

amcalester

How much renovating can he do to a one bed?

Short of adding an extra bedroom to it, I can't see the the RTB finding that substantial renovations are being planned.

Has he said what renovations he has planned?

The_Conductor

Obviously what he is doing is unethical - which is why the landlord has insulated himself from the dirty dealings of the situation using an agent to impart this to you.

The landlord can legitimately terminate your Part IV tenancy- on the grounds that he wants to do major renovations- and then relet the property giving you first dibs, at the new rate.

The manner in which its being put to you though- is unethical.

Technically the guy is not in breach with the letter of the law, but he is pumelling the spirit of the law into a pulp, regurgitating it and spitting it out.

If the going rate for the area is now 1,500 (which seems remarkable for a 1 bed apartment)- then, unfortunately, and despite the obnoxiousness of the situation- you only legally have two options- pony up, or leave.

Check out what the going rate is though- the landlord can't simply pluck something from thin air and tell you thats your new rent- it has to be based on market rent. Actually- he can't do that either- because he can't increase the rent by more than 4%.

Honestly- if I were in your situation- I'd pay the increase- and immediately lodge a case with the RTB- requesting expedited assessment at tribunal.

Guys like this- are the types of people who give landlords a bad name- and *need* to be dealt with- for the sake of tenants and compliant landlords elsewhere.

ellobee

he has to give you 90 days notice in writing of any rent reviews

theteal

Any plans to buy soon? Do you need a reference?

During one of his shady phone calls I'd shadily enquire how he thinks he's going to physically remove you from the property if you don't pay his illegal hike? These court cases can drag on....

Either way, not a nice position to be in due to greed

Nordie Durdle

GingerLily wrote: »

You could accept it and then make a claim against him once you have proof he's illegally upped the rent? Disgraceful that he's acting like such a crook!

That is an option, however he will almost certainly find a way to kick us out and then probably try to keep the hefty (1500) deposit. I will research what our options are after the fact thanks.

liger wrote: »

I would refuse to speak to them about it over phone/in person. Insist all proposals for rent increase are in writing, letter or email. otherwise you will continue your tenancy at the previous agreed rate.

I will speak to him first, if I go straight to this tactic he will probably just serve us notice. If he comes back with a bad offer today then yeah I will go down this route. Thanks.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Can he actually put the rent up by 50%? I thought that was illegal and isn't he supposed to get 90 days notice?

Yeah I suggested this and the response was that he is within his rights to renovate, seemingly by law we would be given first refusal but I think all bridges will be burned by that point!

maximoose wrote: »

He can't up the rent 500 quid, and he's essentially trying to blackmail you into accepting it with the threat of renovation. I'd report to the RTB and start looking to move, not the kind of person you want to be dealing with.

Tell him you require written notice if he wants to vacate (over 2 years you should be entitled to 8 weeks notice).

Unfortunately this is looking most likely, it's just daunting given the difficulty finding anywhere at the moment on a budget - especially on a tight schedule.

amcalester wrote: »

How much renovating can he do to a one bed?

Short of adding an extra bedroom to it, I can't see the the RTB finding that substantial renovations are being planned.

Has he said what renovations he has planned?

No but the place is old and damp, he could easily strip the place bare and completely refit, it would certainly increase the monthly value, it still wouldn't be worth 1500 though.

ellobee

The_Conductor wrote: »

Obviously what he is doing is unethical - which is why the landlord has insulated himself from the dirty dealings of the situation using an agent to impart this to you.

The landlord can legitimately terminate your Part IV tenancy- on the grounds that he wants to do major renovations- and then relet the property giving you first dibs, at the new rate.

A ‘substantial refurbishment’ must be a significant change to the dwelling resulting in increased market value of the tenancy. Therefore this would involve significant alterations or improvements which add to the letting value of the property - usually involving major building works or works requiring planning permission. For example, simple repainting or replacement of white goods would not be sufficient.

do you know what his renovation plans are??

Achasanai

myshirt wrote: »

Just think of all the 500 euros you have saved by avoiding an increase up to this point. 1,500 is there or thereabouts the going rate.

Unless things have changed drastically since the new year, 1500 is certainly not the going rate for a one bed in Drumcondra.

I saw a few one-beds in Drumcondra for the 1250 mark (even one two-bed for 1400).

Does that 4% legal price rise include if a landlord renovates and then puts back on the market? If so, is calling his bluff an option?

Nordie Durdle

theteal wrote: »

Any plans to buy soon? Do you need a reference?

During one of his shady phone calls I'd shadily enquire how he thinks he's going to physically remove you from the property if you don't pay his illegal hike? These court cases can drag on....

Either way, not a nice position to be in due to greed

Usual story, wish to buy but are a couple of years away from having a deposit. :rolleyes:

The_Conductor wrote: »

Obviously what he is doing is unethical - which is why the landlord has insulated himself from the dirty dealings of the situation using an agent to impart this to you.

The landlord can legitimately terminate your Part IV tenancy- on the grounds that he wants to do major renovations- and then relet the property giving you first dibs, at the new rate.

The manner in which its being put to you though- is unethical.

Technically the guy is not in breach with the letter of the law, but he is pumelling the spirit of the law into a pulp, regurgitating it and spitting it out.

If the going rate for the area is now 1,500 (which seems remarkable for a 1 bed apartment)- then, unfortunately, and despite the obnoxiousness of the situation- you only legally have two options- pony up, or leave.

Check out what the going rate is though- the landlord can't simply pluck something from thin air and tell you thats your new rent- it has to be based on market rent. Actually- he can't do that either- because he can't increase the rent by more than 4%.

Honestly- if I were in your situation- I'd pay the increase- and immediately lodge a case with the RTB- requesting expedited assessment at tribunal.

Guys like this- are the types of people who give landlords a bad name- and *need* to be dealt with- for the sake of tenants and compliant landlords elsewhere.

Going rate is 1250 by my estimation. Thanks I think this is pretty much my line of thinking now, suck it up initially, go to RTB and start looking elsewhere while dealing with the inevitable trouble afterwards.

It's fairly depressing the power dynamic here, especially as we were ideal tenants, no complaints, noise, moaning or late rent for two years, seemingly that isn't a factor.

Nordie Durdle

ellobee wrote: »

do you know what his renovation plans are??

No but surely he could strip everything down to the bare walls, replace the rather decrepid looking kitchen and bathroom, perhaps knock a wall and refit everything. I would imagine that would be substantial enough.

Nordie Durdle

Achasanai wrote: »

Does that 4% legal price rise include if a landlord renovates and then puts back on the market? If so, is calling his bluff an option?

I spoke briefly to the nice guys at Threshold and they reckoned it can go back at the 'going rate', so probably 1300 at a push, personally I think he would choose 1300 over a 4% yearly increase.

We can only afford maybe 1200 tops, if he goes above that then we will probably do what was suggested above, RTB and look elsewhere.

Michael D Not Higgins

If you can't afford it then you're going to have to move eventually. However, if he wants to play the game you can drag it out. I don't normally advise this course of action as it just leads to hostility on both sides but if the landlord is going to flout the laws so brashly, you have a few options in your pocket.

At the moment you have no proof beyond your word. Ask for the rent increase in writing, then you have 90 days notice and you can dispute it with the RTB. Don't tell the landlord what's wrong with the notice. It likely has a few things wrong with it, e.g. not 90 days notice, not 4% increase, not including 3 examples to justify market rent, etc. It's likely the landlord will attempt the renovation route then, which will give you another 56 days notice and you can also dispute but you will end up in a flat with a hostile landlord.

Your best bet is to start looking for other accommodation now if you're planning to dispute his actions.

dr.fuzzenstein

Nordie Durdle wrote: »

I spoke briefly to the nice guys at Threshold and they reckoned it can go back at the 'going rate', so probably 1300 at a push, personally I think he would choose 1300 over a 4% yearly increase.

We can only afford maybe 1200 tops, if he goes above that then we will probably do what was suggested above, RTB and look elsewhere.

All legal points aside, you could call back and offer him 1200. Tell him he could take that and save himself a lot of hassle and everyone is happy. Sometimes the human approach works wonders rather than both parties immediately coming out all guns blazing. He's a solicitor, he understands settlements.
Mention ethics and you've lost him.

Hack12

(1) He must give you written notice in a lettter (email is not legally accepted as per RTB) outlining the proposed increase.
(2) He can only increase the rent 4% per annum since your last rent increase. There is a calculator on the RTB site to do this as its not a straight forward 4% pa.
(3) Have you a lease? Where you given all the relevant documents such as BER Cert etc? If not he broke the law and could be fined.
(4) Check to see if the tenancy ia registered with the RTB. If not more trouble for him.
(5) If he is proposing works to increase the rent and you have to move out depending on length of time living at the property he will have to give you adequate notice as once you are living in a property over six months it turns into what is known as a Part IV lease. See RTB site.

Best advise is phone RTB and they will set u
you straight

stateofflux

OP i would do absolutely nothing for a few weeks and avoid contact. Just let things play out to see what happens.

Idbatterim

the landlord isnt even doing his own dirty work. So while the landlord maybe a bit pissed off, so what...

The_Conductor

Idbatterim wrote: »

the landlord isnt even doing his own dirty work. So while the landlord maybe a bit pissed off, so what...

While I do get what you're saying- if he has a string of properties- he obviously has one or more agents to help with running them- this doesn't excuse the stunt he is pulling though.

gizmo81

Accept the increase because of coercion.

Then immediately take a case to the RTB.

If he then seeks to terminate on the grounds of renovation it will be seen as punitive and the RTB will take a dim view of it.

This is completely in line with your rights.

blacklilly

gizmo81 wrote: »

Accept the increase because of coercion.

Then immediately take a case to the RTB.

If he then seeks to terminate on the grounds of renovation it will be seen as punitive and the RTB will take a dim view of it.

This is completely in line with your rights.

Just be careful on this point. My understanding is that if you do not reply to the Landlord in writing disputing the increase and lodge a case with the PRTB prior to the increase it will be deemed that you have accepted the increase

My advice is to get his proposed increase in writing and lodge a case with the PRTB.

Browney7

Thinking out loud, if the OP accepts 1500 and gets a one year fixed term out of it can they then go to the RTB to dispute the rent rise being illegal due to the RPZ legislation and say they were unaware of this provision in law at the time and claim coercion etc. Still then get a year further where LL can't even invoke the renovation clause as he has given a fixed term?

gizmo81

I agree, however, it's going to be difficult to get the 'threat of homelessness' on paper.

If you accept the increase a case still can be taken because it is an illegal increase beyond the 4%. Go straight to adjudication for €15 and there you'll be able to voice about the threats.

blacklilly wrote: »

Just be careful on this point. My understanding is that if you do not reply to the Landlord in writing disputing the increase and lodge a case with the PRTB prior to the increase it will be deemed that you have accepted the increase

My advice is to get his proposed increase in writing and lodge a case with the PRTB.

The_Conductor

blacklilly wrote: »

Just be careful on this point. My understanding is that if you do not reply to the Landlord in writing disputing the increase and lodge a case with the PRTB prior to the increase it will be deemed that you have accepted the increase

My advice is to get his proposed increase in writing and lodge a case with the PRTB.

The landlord *has* to advise of the increase formally.
The OP is entitled to 90 days notice of the increase.
Once validly served with notice of the increase- the OP has 28 days to dispute it.

I strongly suspect the landlord will not serve a formal notice of increase- as regardless of the suggestion that they will renovate if the OP does not accept the increase- the increase, in itself, is illegal, without the renovation.

If the OP can get a formal notice of increase from the landlord- they are home and dry.

Browney7

The_Conductor wrote: »

The landlord *has* to advise of the increase formally.
The OP is entitled to 90 days notice of the increase.
Once validly served with notice of the increase- the OP has 28 days to dispute it.

I strongly suspect the landlord will not serve a formal notice of increase- as regardless of the suggestion that they will renovate if the OP does not accept the increase- the increase, in itself, is illegal, without the renovation.

If the OP can get a formal notice of increase from the landlord- they are home and dry.

This is true - he'll probably invoke renovation instead of rent review then as he knows he's in the wrong. Up to the OP if they wish to dispute at that point.

OP's word against the landlord's regarding the increase.

testaccount123

Nordie Durdle wrote: »

It's fairly depressing the power dynamic here, especially as we were ideal tenants, no complaints, noise, moaning or late rent for two years, seemingly that isn't a factor.

You are misunderstanding the 'power dynamic' here IMO.

Nordie Durdle

testaccount123 wrote: »

You are misunderstanding the 'power dynamic' here IMO.

How so?