Landlord proposing 50% rent increase or he will renovate

testaccount123

Nordie Durdle wrote: »

How so?

You have legal possession of the property and significant protection under Irish law.

'Work to rule' on the process. Dont initiate any contact, insist on everything in writing. Ignore imaginary '24 hour deadlines' this chancer has dreamed up. Tell him you are busy this week and will get to his request later in the month. Only engage with actions explicitly allowed under the RTA.

Worst case scenario is he illegally evicts you several months from now, in which case you will be in line for a payday down the road.

Relax, youve plenty of time here.

wordofwarning

OP look at it this way. He is a solictor with 200 properties. If he goes to the RTB over this, a solictor with 200 properties giving tenants and illegal rent increase of 50% is likely going to end up in the papers. It will only create issues with his other 200 properties. If he is a nice partner in a Big Five firm, it will not go down well with the firm.

I would do nothing. Tell the agent you want it in writing if they come back to you. File a complaint with the RTB with the notice if you get of the rent increase.

If you are evicted for the said renovations. Try and find out if renovations were in fact carried out. If they weren't, you can file a dispute with the RTB for an illegal eviction. If you are evicted for renovations, tell them you will be wanting first offer of the property when the renovations are carried out (you can demand this).

If you checked this landlords name on the RTB site for disputes?

TimeToShine

Play your cards right here and there is a tidy pay day in store for you.

Listen to the advice here and don't be bullied by silly imaginary deadlines - you have all the time in the world and then some. Document everything he does and email it to yourself so it's timestamped.

Mrs OBumble

maximoose wrote: »

Seriously? This is terrible advice justifying dodgy landlords.

He can't up the rent 500 quid, and he's essentially trying to blackmail you into accepting it with the threat of renovation. I'd report to the RTB and start looking to move, not the kind of person you want to be dealing with.

I'd do it the other way around.

Accept it for now. Get yourself a job. Then find somewhere else to live, and take him to the RTB after that. Tell them that he bullied you into paying an illegal amount, and with the shortage of properties you felt you had no choice.

Nordie Durdle

Thanks for all the good advice everyone. Someone asked above - yes the property is registered with the RTB so it looks like he is chancing his arm or has spotted an investment opportunity in renovating.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Accept it for now. Get yourself a job. Then find somewhere else to live, and take him to the RTB after that.

This looks the most likely course of action for us. We've been steadily getting more angry about this for 24 hours. I don't think staying as hostile tenants is any better than trying to force our way into staying under a hostile landlord.

Move to the sticks and try to save a deposit. Fun times.

testaccount123

Move if you want, nobody wants to be uncomfortable in their own home. But dont be bullied out, leave when it suits you under your own terms.

Too many tenants let these scumbags walk all over them.

runawaybishop

Why would you accept the increase? In fact, what increase? You didn't get an increase, someone mentioned something over the phone but you received no paperwork. Ask for it written down.

testaccount123

runawaybishop wrote: »

Why would you accept the increase? In fact, what increase? You didn't get an increase, someone mentioned something over the phone but you received no paperwork. Ask for it written down.

You are right that there is no increase, but theres no need to be helping the landlord or his agent out by asking for the increase in writing. OP better off ignoring any illegal notices.

The_Conductor

Just keep in mind- if the OP's landlord has 200 properties (who is to say he/she hasn't)- they'd not be a landlord for long- if they were constantly tied up with RTB tribunals......... This could be an agent bollixing up as quickly as it could be the landlord (who is a solicitor- and doubtless knows the law)- acting the maggot.

There are a lot of assumptions being made here.

OP- deal with the agent in writing- be it e-mail, text message- or whatever form of communication you can get out of them- but not verbal. Anything said verbally is hearsay. You need to keep track of what is happening- in an irrefutable manner- so you have decent records to show the RTB- if, and it is an 'if', it gets to that stage.

From the limited detail the OP has given- its not implausible that the landlord may be doing up the unit- in preparation for charging the proposed 1,500 pm.

The OP needs clarity in writing- is the tenancy being ended because the landlord wishes to do up the property- if so, they need the requisite notice to end the tenancy- which as they have been there over 2 years, but less than 4 years- is 8 weeks (56 days) unless they come to a mutually agreeable alternate with the landlord.

The rent increase- while I have no reason to believe the agent wasn't serious- is moot here- nothing verbal means anything- and until such time as there has been a formal valid notice of rent review delivered to the OP (which I'd be flabergasted if there was to be)- its moot.

In a situation like this- the landlord does not want the tenant to remain in the property- even at the higher rent- they want vacant possession of the property to do up the property and to relet at the higher rate. The OP- will have first dibs on it- when it is done up.

The agent- isn't concerned with this- he/she is concerned with money. Typically agents get a 10% cut of the gross rental income- for managing the tenancy. This agent wants his 30-40 quid extra, come what may- and may have said what they said- with this in mind.

OP- you need formal notice from the landlord- that they are ending the tenancy- and the right notice should be specified (56 days).

The more I think about this- if the landlord has 200 properties- they're not going to be familiar with the intricacies of each tenancy- and they're probably renovating properties on a schedule (I know I would- if I were the landlord). Its just as likely that the agent is doing a solo run on this- however, in the absence of anything formal in writing- nothing is happening.

One way or the other- the OP is out of the property- he gets 8 weeks notice anyhow- he may be able to drag it out a bit longer- but if the landlord is a solicitor and thoroughly familiar with the legislation- which you would have to assume they are- there is no reason to believe that the OP will be given any just cause to lodge an RTB case.

OP- wait until you get formal notice in writing from the landlord. Forget about the 'increase in rent to 1500 a month'- thats just bluster on the part of the agent- he/she *is* using bully boy tactics- however, the landlord is not going to go along with this- they'd be nuts to do so.

gizmo81

I believe there will be no formal notice of a rent increase. If the tenant doesn't accept it by just paying it then I believe that a formal notice of termination will be furnished for renovation.

I would open a dispute today stating the coercion into taking a illegal rent increase. Then when the formal notice for termination comes, the RTB will have to judge to take your word of the threat or believe you are in fact Mystic Meg.

NinetyTwoTeam

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'd do it the other way around.

Accept it for now. Get yourself a job. Then find somewhere else to live, and take him to the RTB after that. Tell them that he bullied you into paying an illegal amount, and with the shortage of properties you felt you had no choice.

Why would you advise the tenant allow the landlord to break the law and cause financial hardship on him? If someone advised a tenant to stop paying rent they would be threatened with a ban. If the OP was in work, would your advice be 'tell your boss you want a raise'?

The PRTB process takes a while. I would open the dispute straight away. This cowboy knows he can't do anything without written notice so he is going to avoid that, and when he gets wind of the dispute he's likely to be even more careful about what he does, if he tries the renovation route he will have to show proof it was done, etc. and that he is seeking market rate. If he thinks he's dealing with someone who doesn't know their rights and won't fight back, he'll be less worried about fulfilling those legal requirements. Filing now sends a message that the tenant is serious about being treated fairly and insists on their LL doing things legally.

There's no point trying the soft approach based on the LLs actions. It's a massive, illegal increase that was conveyed in a manner which was underhanded and is not legally valid. Also, you don't need a crystal ball to predict that there could also be trouble getting the deposit back off this guy, so open a dispute now because if it goes to tribunal you can show a timeline of his actions, first the illegal increase, then the 'renovation' loophole, and then if it happens, the deposit retention. Getting him on the RTB radar now might avoid him trying the latter two.

The_Conductor

gizmo81 wrote: »

I believe there will be no formal notice of a rent increase. If the tenant doesn't accept it by just paying it then I believe that a formal notice of termination will be furnished for renovation.

I would open a dispute today stating the coercion into taking a illegal rent increase. Then when the formal notice for termination comes, the RTB will have to judge to take your word of the treat or believe you are in fact Mystic Meg.

Yes- there has to be a formal notice of rent increase- however, its not going to happen- the landlord is a solicitor with 200 properties- and when he sees the proposed rent increase (from the agent)- he'll nuke it- as quite simply, its illegal- and the landlord has better things to do, than waste time at an RTB tribunal. In addition- he probably has a small team on retainers to do renovations- and its simply gotten to the OP's apartment on their list.

The agent is being an arse- however, there most certainly is not going to be a formal notification of increase in rent- for the simple reason, its an illegal increase, and the OP's landlord really doesn't need the hassle of an indefensible RTB case- they are not going to go there.

Ms Doubtfire1

gizmo81 wrote: »

I believe there will be no formal notice of a rent increase. If the tenant doesn't accept it by just paying it then I believe that a formal notice of termination will be furnished for renovation.

I would open a dispute today stating the coercion into taking a illegal rent increase. Then when the formal notice for termination comes, the RTB will have to judge to take your word of the treat or believe you are in fact Mystic Meg.

A formal notice of termination due to renovation will have to be accompanied by various other documents. Dispute it every step on the way - you have plenty of times.Right now,I'd lodge a claim with the PRT - for illegal rent increase.that way you have a reference that makes it possible to link the illegal rent increase to a renovation termination - which might help your case in front of the RTB. Do NOT give in.

jimmycrackcorm

wordofwarning wrote:

If you are evicted for the said renovations. Try and find out if renovations were in fact carried out. If they weren't, you can file a dispute with the RTB for an illegal eviction. If you are evicted for renovations, tell them you will be wanting first offer of the property when the renovations are carried out (you can demand this).

As the landlord is obliged to offer the renovated property to the op first, it is an ideal opportunity to check if they were substantial.

Op can only afford 1200 so they should be looking to move to somewhere at that most. The landlord is changing his arm so pay him at his game, there might be a nice rtb payout.

The_Conductor

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

A formal notice of termination due to renovation will have to be accompanied by various other documents. Dispute it every step on the way - you have plenty of times.Right now,I'd lodge a claim with the PRT - for illegal rent increase.that way you have a reference that makes it possible to link the illegal rent increase to a renovation termination - which might help your case in front of the RTB. Do NOT give in.

The OP does not have an illegal rent increase- until such time as they get a formal notification of rent increase from their landlord.
This is not going to happen.

The landlord wants to renovate their property- and they probably have a team on retainer to do renovations. They do not need to supply details of the team who are going to be doing the work to the tenant- contrary to what some tenants seem to imagine. They do need to do significant renovations- and if challenged, they have to be able to defend the renovations.

As the landlord is a professional landlord with 200 properties under their belt- one has to assume they know what they are doing- and are not some fly by night operation.

The very best the OP is going to get out of this- is an extension on leaving the property- and a first refusal on the property once the renovations have been conducted.

You can go in all guns blazing all you like- but without a formal notice of anything- whatsoever- the OP getting onto the RTB, paying their 15 quid and saying they've an illegal rent review- is hearsay- they haven't had a rent review, period, it hasn't happened.

The OP is entitled to 8 weeks notice of the termination of the tenancy on the grounds that their landlord wishes to renovate the property. They may be able to amicably negotiate a longer spell (within reason)- that is it though.

Its a waste of the OP's time (and their 15 quid) to lodge a case at this point in time- as quite simply put, they don't have a case. Until such time as the OP has been notified of what is happening in writing- nothing is happening.

gizmo81

The_Conductor wrote: »

Yes- there has to be a formal notice of rent increase- however, its not going to happen- the landlord is a solicitor with 200 properties- and when he sees the proposed rent increase (from the agent)- he'll nuke it- as quite simply, its illegal- and the landlord has better things to do, than waste time at an RTB tribunal. In addition- he probably has a small team on retainers to do renovations- and its simply gotten to the OP's apartment on their list.

The agent is being an arse- however, there most certainly is not going to be a formal notification of increase in rent- for the simple reason, its an illegal increase, and the OP's landlord really doesn't need the hassle of an indefensible RTB case- they are not going to go there.

I don't get from the OP that the guy who visited is anything other than a lackey. I don't see him as an established agent registered with the PSR. Perhaps the OP could clarify this?

Having just been at the RTB, this man is the landlords representative and whether the landlord knew he was acting in this manner will be irrelevant to the board as he is the landlords representative.

The_Conductor

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

As the landlord is obliged to offer the renovated property to the op first, it is an ideal opportunity to check if they were substantial.

Op can only afford 1200 so they should be looking to move to somewhere at that most. The landlord is changing his arm so pay him at his game, there might be a nice rtb payout.

Its not necessarily an opportunity to check anything at all.
There is no definition of 'substantial renovation'.
It does not necessarily need planning permission- or need to be structural in nature.

Yes- the OP gets first dibs on the renovated property- however suggesting they have a payday from the RTB- really is putting the cart before the horse- there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that this would be the outcome.

Also- there is nothing whatsoever to stop the landlord having his own team do up the property- he/she is under no obligation whatsoever to have external contractors in to do up the property- or to show receipts to the tenant to prove this. Bring it to the RTB after the fact- if you wish- however, given the lack of a definition- and the fact that the landlord has quite a collection of properties which he/she is doubtless renovating on a schedule- I'd honestly be surprised if they were not in a position to justify this.

I agree- the agent is an ass- who shouldn't have said what he said- however, there is nothing to say this has any meaning in fact- and in the absence of anything in writing- is hearsay.

Wait until you get something in writing- and be rational.

The_Conductor

gizmo81 wrote: »

I don't get from the OP that the guy who visited is anything other than a lackey. I don't see him as an established agent registered with the PSR. Perhaps the OP could clarify this?

Having just been at the RTB, this man is the landlords representative and whether the landlord knew he was acting in this manner will be irrelevant to the board as he is the landlords representative.

He hasn't done anything though- until such time as there is a paper trail to prove otherwise.

There has been no notice of renovations- and there has been no formal rent review.

You're putting the cart before the horse.

gizmo81

The_Conductor wrote: »

The OP does not have an illegal rent increase- until such time as they get a formal notification of rent increase from their landlord.
This is not going to happen.

The landlord wants to renovate their property- and they probably have a team on retainer to do renovations. They do not need to supply details of the team who are going to be doing the work to the tenant- contrary to what some tenants seem to imagine. They do need to do significant renovations- and if challenged, they have to be able to defend the renovations.

As the landlord is a professional landlord with 200 properties under their belt- one has to assume they know what they are doing- and are not some fly by night operation.

The very best the OP is going to get out of this- is an extension on leaving the property- and a first refusal on the property once the renovations have been conducted.

You can go in all guns blazing all you like- but without a formal notice of anything- whatsoever- the OP getting onto the RTB, paying their 15 quid and saying they've an illegal rent review- is hearsay- they haven't had a rent review, period, it hasn't happened.

The OP is entitled to 8 weeks notice of the termination of the tenancy on the grounds that their landlord wishes to renovate the property. They may be able to amicably negotiate a longer spell (within reason)- that is it though.

Its a waste of the OP's time (and their 15 quid) to lodge a case at this point in time- as quite simply put, they don't have a case. Until such time as the OP has been notified of what is happening in writing- nothing is happening.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this. The landlords representative visited the OP and threatened them with an illegal eviction unless they paid an illegal 50% rent increase.

Yes it a case of who's word is more reliable. But thats what courts deal with and the RTB from experience is no different. My last RTB case they specifically stated that i was more credible than the third party.

I'd open a dispute, if the notice of termination for renovation comes before the landlord is notified by the RTB then all good. If it doesn't and he seeks to proceed with the notice after the dispute it could be considered punitive.

Why would the OP open a case if there wasn't a threat? What has he to gain from opening an a dispute, this is what the RTB will consider.

The_Conductor

Perhaps the OP can clarify- but my reading of it was they got a phone call- from the middleman- advising the landlord wishes to renovate and increase the rent to 1,500 pm. I don't believe the OP was visited by the middleman- to be brutally honest- I'd have witnesses present and the cops on speed dial- if they had someone turn up like a thug- which is the way I'm reading what you're suggesting.

Several large landlords with property in the Drumcondra area have been approached by DCU and other institutions, who are trying to source high quality units for staff and visitors. The landlord who apparently has 200'ish properties- isn't going to be stupid enough to hang themselves out to dry.

I don't doubt that there was discourse between the OP and the landlord's agent- however, I seriously doubt there is anything of substance there that could be acted on- and in the context of the recent call for property in the area- it wouldn't be very hard for the OP's landlord to show he had reason to renovate/dollyup the property.

I know the OP is peeved- the landlord wants to do up the property- and get market rate for it- however, this is not unusual. The OP will need to get formal notice of this- with the requisite notice (8 weeks).

Lodge a case with the RTB to your hearts content- all you're doing though is delaying the inevitable.

MSVforever

Sorry to hear OP.
Unfortunately this seems to be quite common in the current rental market in Co. Dublin and commuter towns.

Its a catch 22 situation for people who are barely over the threshold for rent allowance. They cant afford the market rent or buy their own house but and are not qualifying for social housing.

Anyway if I were you I would seek legal advice. Dont let the LL's lap dog intimidate you. Get everything in writing. In the meantime try to find another apartment.
Not all LL's are like this. Our landlord is great. She hasnt increased the rent since we moved in 8 years ago. We re blessed.

Good luck to you and your partner!

Nordie Durdle

The outcome was better than expected, I bypassed the middle man and contacted the landlord directly by text giving examples of other apartments in the area that are 1000 euro and offered a rise to €1100 as a market value price.

He didn't respond but the middleman then came back then with €1125 as an offer and I have accepted that, it would be an illegal rise if I challenged it but I have no doubt he would proceed with renovations if we went down the RTB route.

It has left a sour taste in the mouth, clearly customer service isn't a strong point of his.
We'd have agreed to a reasonable rise without the drama given the state of the housing market at present.

Grateful for the help here, glad I didn't do anything too rash.

The_Conductor

Nordie- I'm glad its worked out for you.
Best of good luck with your job hunting- in the current climate, I don't imagine an IT contractor will remain unclaimed in the jobs market for any length of time.
Best of good luck to you and your girlfriend.

As the OP has resolved their issue- closing thread.

The_Conductor

OP- just to clarify- legally the most the landlord can increase the rent by is 45 Euro.

The RPZ calculator is here- plug the tenancy commencement date in it, when you started paying the 1000, and make an assumption of a valid rental review (i.e. 90 days notice) and you will see the maximum increase is in fact 45 Euro to 1045 Euro per month.

I.e. the 1125 you have agreed to pay is legally 80 Euro a month more than the landlord is entitled to.

The market rate for the area- is wholly irrelevant, its in a rent protected zone- therefore it is bound by the RPZ rules.

Your proposed increase, which you have negotiated- is in breach of RPZ legislation.