Landlord's minimum upkeep?

737max

on the other hand there are quality of life issues associated with remaining.

Nomis21

I have been in my rented accommodation for 6 years. In that time the Landlord has always kept within Rent Allowance limits and has always taken care of any major repairs.

In return I have replaced all appliances and furnishings at my cost when they needed replacing.

Sure you can go down the road of expecting the Landlord to replace items and perhaps have the right legally to do that, but he has the right to increase your rent or even ask you to leave at the end of the lease. A good relationship with a landlord is often worth more than a new couch.

spoke2cun

spoke2cun wrote: »

He seems to be passing the buck between himself and his partner.

What does this mean? Are you renting a place from a couple which has split up or something?

spoke2cun wrote: »

When all is said and done, it's his own property he'd be upkeeping!

spoke2cun wrote: »

I'm just amazed that a landlord couldn't care less about his property

Some landlords couldn't care less about their property as long as they can get it rented out. I was in a similar place and moved out, the landlord told me later that his new tenants were doing all the jobs he wasn't arsed doing.

spoke2cun wrote: »

I have no issues about buying stuff

Then do this, you're better off with your own stuff if you can afford it. But then you'll have to get the landlord to get rid of, for example, the existing three-piece suite, that was a problem for my old landlord too.

gizmo81

I'm dealing with a "let and forget" landlord and worse still a fairly established agent who hasn't a clue about the Landlords and Tenants Rights and Obligations.

spoke2cun

Lux23 wrote: »

People should be banned for saying this in the forum and in this rental climate. One cannot just simply move these days and you shouldn't be attacking a tenant for expecting a landlord to fulfil their obligations.

Thanks Lux23. The reason I'm asking for advice is because I'm not sure of what I have to provide myself and what the landlord should provide.

spoke2cun

wordofwarning wrote: »

You don't know what BERs are about, but you want one? You want the landlord spend money on a piece of paper that is useless as you don't want to research it? There is no minimum standard for energy efficiency in houses. I suggest you research all of this before



Why? You honestly don't come across as a tenant that I would want to keep...

'I don't know what a BER is, but I want one'. Why would a landlord want to maintain a house to keep a tenant like you?

As previously mentioned, I think you and the landlord have different objections. You want him to spend money on pieces of paper you know nothing about to see if they follow minimum standard that don't exist. Try find another landlord, you will give into your demands but most won't

I was just looking for advice. Obviously you can't give that, so why interfere with our thread?

spoke2cun

If I was a landlord myself I'd be interested in maintaining my property which would keep my tenants happy. Happy tenants are, after all, happy customers.

marathonic

I let a property to a tenant at a rate that's currently about 15% below market rent. If my tenant came to me with the following list, I'd do the minimum that I'm legally required to do and increase the rent to the maximum possible at first opportunity. However, currently I'm happy with the 15% reduction in rent for a hassle-free tenant.
 
The grass cut;
The chimney cleaned;
The septic tank cleared;
The sofa replaced;
A tile replaced;
A leaking door repaired;
Wall cracks repaired;
Garden wall caps repaired;
A BER cert;
A carbon monoxide monitor installed;
A fire blanket;
A fire extinguisher;

Perhaps remove the items that a landlord isn't legally obliged to do, let them deal with the remainder and leave it a while to see whether they use that as an opportunity to increase rent. Then prioritise the other items, for which a landlord is not legally obliged to take action, and try for the most important to you.

A landlord can only increase rent once every 24 months (rules differ within pressure zones) so use that fact to decide how to proceed, e.g. if the landlord has just increased rent, feel free to push for all of the above, safe in the knowledge that he can't increase rent again.

Just be aware that a list like that shown above will instantly move you out of the "good tenant for whom I'm willing to accept a below-market rent" category.

marathonic

spoke2cun wrote: »

If I was a landlord myself I'd be interested in maintaining my property which would keep my tenants happy. Happy tenants are, after all, happy customers.

Any sensible landlord will want to maintain their property where failure to do so will result in a requirement for more expensive repairs down the line. The same can be said for an owner occupier. However, some items on your list aren't works that an owner occupier would bother for their own house.

Taking the 'cracked walls' example, if these were in the outside and allowing rainwater into wall cavities, a landlord would be well advised to repair immediately. However, if they were minor settling cracks that you see in a lot of internal walls and weren't deteriorating further, a landlord will only likely want to repair these to keep the so-called 'good tenant'.

For the example of 'grass cutting', failure to do this for a long time is likely to result in some higher cost works being required in the future. It's unusual for a tenant to be unwilling to take care of this unless a landlord has already agreed to do so. With that in mind, as a landlord, a tenants refusal to handle this would have me take care of it myself until my first opportunity to legally replace them with a new tenant.

Luckily, I have a pretty good tenant who only really hassles me for the usual stuff you'd expect - examples being servicing a boiler, replacing a broken washing machine, repairing a leaking pipe and repainting every few years.

spoke2cun

marathonic wrote: »

I let a property to a tenant at a rate that's currently about 15% below market rent. If my tenant came to me with the following list, I'd do the minimum that I'm legally required to do and increase the rent to the maximum possible at first opportunity. However, currently I'm happy with the 15% reduction in rent for a hassle-free tenant.
 
The grass cut;
The chimney cleaned;
The septic tank cleared;
The sofa replaced;
A tile replaced;
A leaking door repaired;
Wall cracks repaired;
Garden wall caps repaired;
A BER cert;
A carbon monoxide monitor installed;
A fire blanket;
A fire extinguisher;

Perhaps remove the items that a landlord isn't legally obliged to do, let them deal with the remainder and leave it a while to see whether they use that as an opportunity to increase rent. Then prioritise the other items, for which a landlord is not legally obliged to take action, and try for the most important to you.

A landlord can only increase rent once every 24 months (rules differ within pressure zones) so use that fact to decide how to proceed, e.g. if the landlord has just increased rent, feel free to push for all of the above, safe in the knowledge that he can't increase rent again.

Just be aware that a list like that shown above will instantly move you out of the "good tenant for whom I'm willing to accept a below-market rent" category.

Yet another unhelpful reply.

marathonic

spoke2cun wrote: »

marathonic wrote: »

I let a property to a tenant at a rate that's currently about 15% below market rent. If my tenant came to me with the following list, I'd do the minimum that I'm legally required to do and increase the rent to the maximum possible at first opportunity. However, currently I'm happy with the 15% reduction in rent for a hassle-free tenant.
 
The grass cut;
The chimney cleaned;
The septic tank cleared;
The sofa replaced;
A tile replaced;
A leaking door repaired;
Wall cracks repaired;
Garden wall caps repaired;
A BER cert;
A carbon monoxide monitor installed;
A fire blanket;
A fire extinguisher;

Perhaps remove the items that a landlord isn't legally obliged to do, let them deal with the remainder and leave it a while to see whether they use that as an opportunity to increase rent. Then prioritise the other items, for which a landlord is not legally obliged to take action, and try for the most important to you.

A landlord can only increase rent once every 24 months (rules differ within pressure zones) so use that fact to decide how to proceed, e.g. if the landlord has just increased rent, feel free to push for all of the above, safe in the knowledge that he can't increase rent again.

Just be aware that a list like that shown above will instantly move you out of the "good tenant for whom I'm willing to accept a below-market rent" category.

Yet another unhelpful reply.

What exactly are you looking for? 

It looks like you class a helpful reply as something along the lines of "yeah, hit the landlord for everything you can and do it today" - with everything else being 'an unhelpful reply'.

I think my reply was very helpful in advising you to whittle down the list to the legally required items and ask for those before waiting a while to see if they increase rent. If they don't increase rent, all is good. If they do increase rent, they can't do so again for 24 months. Either way, you can then try for those items most important to you of the rest of the list.

If that's not what you consider a helpful reply, then by all means wait for a few more people to advise you that landlords are the root of all evil and should be hit for everything you can get. Continue to ignore or disagree with everyone else.

spoke2cun

marathonic wrote: »

What exactly are you looking for? 

It looks like you class a helpful reply as something along the lines of "yeah, hit the landlord for everything you can and do it today" - with everything else being 'an unhelpful reply'.

I think my reply was very helpful in advising you to whittle down the list to the legally required items and ask for those before waiting a while to see if they increase rent. If they don't increase rent, all is good. If they do increase rent, they can't do so again for 24 months. Either way, you can then try for those items most important to you of the rest of the list.

If that's not what you consider a helpful reply, then by all means wait for a few more people to advise you that landlords are the root of all evil and should be hit for everything you can get. Continue to ignore or disagree with everyone else.

So a landlord doesn't really have to maintain their property if they chose not to?
If we don't contact our landlord over the years of our tenancy and the place is in a state of disrepair when we are to leave, who foots the bill then? I'm led to believe that a tenant is to leave a place as they find it. Like I asked in the OP, what is the minimum required of a landlord. If I was one, I'd like my tenants to keep me informed regarding the upkeep of my property. Surely the amount that we pay in rent covers a small amount of upkeep on his part. Do I care if the house falls to the ground when we leave cos he isn't bothered to upkeep or maintain? No I don't cos he was informed about it all in good time.

gizmo81

Minimum standards are broader than most landlords believe. For example;

All rental accommodation must be maintained in a proper state of structural repair. This means that the dwelling must be essentially sound, internally and externally, with roof, roofing tiles and slates, windows, floors, ceilings, walls, stairs, doors, skirting boards, fascia, tiles on any floor, ceiling and wall, gutters, down pipes, fittings, furnishings, gardens and common areas maintained in good condition and repair and not defective due to dampness or otherwise.

(2) For the purposes of Regulation 4(1) ‘a proper state of structural repair’ means sound, internally and externally, with roof, roofing tiles and slates, windows, floors, ceilings, walls, stairs, doors, skirting boards, fascia, tiles on any floor, ceiling and wall, gutters, down pipes, fittings, furnishings, gardens and common areas maintained in good condition and repair and not defective due to dampness or otherwise.

S.I. No. 17/2017 - Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2017.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/si/17/made/en/print

So broken tiles, skirting boards, falling off wallpaper, etc are no in a good state of repair.

(2) Any requirement of these Regulations with respect to repair shall be construed as requiring a standard of repair that is reasonable in all the circumstances and, in determining the appropriate standard of repair, regard shall be had to the age, character and prospective life of the house.

(ii) repair or maintain in good repair, working order or in a clean condition anything which a tenant is entitled to remove from a house.

(5) All appliances under Regulation 6(1) shall be maintained in a safe condition and in good working order and good repair.

(3) All facilities under Regulation 7(2) shall be maintained in a safe condition and in good working order and good repair.

Also there is a clause in the legislation either housing or RTA about keeping a property in the condition as the tenant found it. So if a bed and a locker is in a bedroom, they have to be maintained and cannot be removed without replacement. Will find a link later

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/si/17/made/en/print

http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad%2C33422%2Cen.pdf

(ii) the interior of the dwelling all such repairs and replacement of fittings as are, from time to time, necessary so that that interior and those fittings are maintained in, at least, the condition in which they were at the commencement of the tenancy and in compliance with any such standards for the time being prescribed,

From the RTA 2004 Obligations of landlord http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec12

spoke2cun

gizmo81 wrote: »

Minimum standards are broader than most landlords believe. For example;

All rental accommodation must be maintained in a proper state of structural repair. This means that the dwelling must be essentially sound, internally and externally, with roof, roofing tiles and slates, windows, floors, ceilings, walls, stairs, doors, skirting boards, fascia, tiles on any floor, ceiling and wall, gutters, down pipes, fittings, furnishings, gardens and common areas maintained in good condition and repair and not defective due to dampness or otherwise.

So broken tiles, skirting boards, falling off wallpaper, etc are no in a good state of repair.

(2) Any requirement of these Regulations with respect to repair shall be construed as requiring a standard of repair that is reasonable in all the circumstances and, in determining the appropriate standard of repair, regard shall be had to the age, character and prospective life of the house.

(ii) repair or maintain in good repair, working order or in a clean condition anything which a tenant is entitled to remove from a house.

(5) All appliances under Regulation 6(1) shall be maintained in a safe condition and in good working order and good repair.

(3) All facilities under Regulation 7(2) shall be maintained in a safe condition and in good working order and good repair.

Also there is a clause in the legislation either housing or RTA about keeping a property in the condition as the tenant found it. So if a bed and a locker is in a bedroom, they have to be maintained and cannot be removed without replacement. Will find a link later

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/si/17/made/en/print

http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad%2C33422%2Cen.pdf

Thanks Gizmo. Good information there.

gizmo81

spoke2cun wrote: »

Thanks Gizmo. Good information there.

Added some info there regarding furnishings and fittings etc

marathonic

spoke2cun wrote: »

If we don't contact our landlord over the years of our tenancy and the place is in a state of disrepair when we are to leave, who foots the bill then?  I'm led to believe that a tenant is to leave a place as they find it. 

Only damage beyond reasonable wear and tear is the tenants responsibility - and, even then, landlords only have a small deposit from which they can withhold costs (sure, they could chase the tenant up if they wreck the place but most don't because, in general, it's not worth it).

spoke2cun

Here's some pics. And still no reply. Am I getting my moneys worth?

spoke2cun

More pics.

spoke2cun

The suites:

gizmo81

Did you refer a dispute to the RTB?

Topgear on Dave

That loose ridge cap is the main big problem I can see, that could lead to problems with the roof maybe?

The others we could debate.

The couch is poor but lots of rentals are like that.

PuppyMcPupFace

May I ask a question please ?

I've been renting for ten years now and i have asked for many things to be done:

- a new gate to the outside as it has been broken many years;
- new lino or tiles in the kitchen as it has rotted away (there is no external ventilation in any of the rooms btw);
- also due to the lack of ventilation; the ceiling in the bathroom has peeled.

I have done every repair, all the garden repairs and maintenance - everything.

Every insoection the managing agent comes for ten minutes, criticises ther cleaning (last time he went to the kitchen, told me the tiles behind the stove were dirty and there was a cobweb in the corner) and didn't take any notes about the repairs.

He just said "I'm going to tell the owners it's not clean".

They have me terrified as an inspection is due. Does anyone know where i stand ? I pay for a cleaner now.

brightspark

spoke2cun wrote: »

If I was a landlord myself I'd be interested in maintaining my property which would keep my tenants happy. Happy tenants are, after all, happy customers.

This is only true to the extent that the business remains profitable.

There is no advantage in having a "happy customer" if that customer is a net loss.

Also "unhappy customers" tend to shop elsewhere, are you willing to move if the landlord doesn't do everything you ask?

Regarding the grass, in all the properties lived in with a lawn, the landlord provided a lawnmower and I cut the grass.

Was the sofa in that condition when you started renting? Has it worn that much in just a couple of years?

As others have said, the BER at this stage is just a piece of paper, useful if you are choosing a property, but no obligation to improve it.

How "attached" to the property are you? As others have said you could force the landlord into making improvements, but some may involve you moving out!

Also it's likely that rent will have to be increased to pay for the improvements, if not immediately, then as soon as he can. Are you prepared to pay more?

spoke2cun

I have my own lawnmower and always cut the grass. Which I don't mind at all to be honest but if it was supposed to be done by the landlord, why would anyone do it?
Sofa was fine when we moved in. The suite in the living room is still like new which is why I'm wondering about the quality of the one in the sitting room.
The repairs wouldn't involve us moving out and we're quite happy where we are.
Why would he increase the rent to cover repairs as he's supposed to maintain the property to a certain standard based on the rent he's already getting?
I'm just amazed at his complete insistence on ignoring us. It's not like we're 'annoying' him about something to repair every week/month since we moved in. These repairs are a must in order to stop the property from getting into a worse condition which is going to happen unless he gets in touch and sorts it out.

In fairness some of the stuff you are complaining about is not even the house its the garden wall, I'd imagine very few LLs would be overly concerned about that .

spoke2cun

Saylor Delicious Wallaby wrote: »

In fairness some of the stuff you are complaining about is not even the house its the garden wall, I'd imagine very few LLs would be overly concerned about that .

I paint the garden fence every summer, which is at least 200 meters long. I don't mind doing it. But I'm not a brickie or a plasterer but I know when a wall needs repairing before it's painted. So if the landlord isn't bothered about his boundary wall falling down, why should I be. What would happen if he was to call round and see some of it collapsed? My fault? I've reported it to him cos I believe it's part of his duty to maintain it. If he does, I've no problem painting it.

spoke2cun

spoke2cun wrote: »

I paint the garden fence every summer, which is at least 200 meters long. I don't mind doing it. But I'm not a brickie or a plasterer but I know when a wall needs repairing before it's painted. So if the landlord isn't bothered about his boundary wall falling down, why should I be. What would happen if he was to call round and see some of it collapsed? My fault? I've reported it to him cos I believe it's part of his duty to maintain it. If he does, I've no problem painting it.

I never said you should fix it. I just said its not going to be something of major concern to any LL, many will just leave it in bad repair as its not impacting on the house.

In my previous rental the front wall was knocked by a car reversing into it, that happened over a year ago and I passed recently and it still hasn't even been touched, wall is still just a pile of rubble left where it fell. The LL was very good to fix issue in the house itself, he would have a plumber or electrician over with a few days but the back garden being over grown and the front wall being knocked don't bother him as its not impacting on the livability of the house and thus the people living there are fairly happy.

Point being, yes your LL should be better at fixing issue with the house but I'm not surprised he has little interest in the front wall. Even the couch while its not in great condition visually it looks structurally sound and not falling apart or collapsing. You could get throws to cover it if the look is the off putting thing.

brightspark

spoke2cun wrote: »

I have my own lawnmower and always cut the grass. Which I don't mind at all to be honest but if it was supposed to be done by the landlord, why would anyone do it?

To be honest I'm surprised he didn't provide a lawnmower.
Ultimately someone has to pay for it to be done, rent would have to be more expensive if the landlord has to pay someone to do it. Also would you really want the landlord entering the property up to twice a week?

spoke2cun wrote: »

Sofa was fine when we moved in. The suite in the living room is still like new which is why I'm wondering about the quality of the one in the sitting room.

That looks like an awful lot of wear&tear for only a couple of years!

spoke2cun wrote: »

The repairs wouldn't involve us moving out and we're quite happy where we are.
Why would he increase the rent to cover repairs as he's supposed to maintain the property to a certain standard based on the rent he's already getting?

Perhaps he failed to correctly estimate how much the maintenance of the property would cost? He might now realise he isn't charging enough rent currently to cover those costs and increase the rent to suit (within the limits of rent regulations of course)

spoke2cun wrote: »

I'm just amazed at his complete insistence on ignoring us. It's not like we're 'annoying' him about something to repair every week/month since we moved in. These repairs are a must in order to stop the property from getting into a worse condition which is going to happen unless he gets in touch and sorts it out.

Just make sure you have documented proof of everything.

spoke2cun

brightspark wrote: »

To be honest I'm surprised he didn't provide a lawnmower.
Ultimately someone has to pay for it to be done, rent would have to be more expensive if the landlord has to pay someone to do it. Also would you really want the landlord entering the property up to twice a week?




That looks like an awful lot of wear&tear for only a couple of years!




Perhaps he failed to correctly estimate how much the maintenance of the property would cost? He might now realise he isn't charging enough rent currently to cover those costs and increase the rent to suit (within the limits of rent regulations of course)




Just make sure you have documented proof of everything.

Thanks Brightspark. Really appreciate your advice and input. Good to get sound advice and opinions.

But getting back to the boundary wall etc. Should a LL not keep his property in decent shape out of respect for his neighbours at least? I'm sure run down looking properties have a negative effect on other well kept houses in the area.

The_Conductor

spoke2cun wrote: »

Thanks Brightspark. Really appreciate your advice and input. Good to get sound advice and opinions.

But getting back to the boundary wall etc. Should a LL not keep his property in decent shape out of respect for his neighbours at least? I'm sure run down looking properties have a negative effect on other well kept houses in the area.

In an ideal world.
From looking at your photos- there are two issues which I, if I were your landlord, would sort immediately- namely the roof (including any undercladding for the side tile) and the capping stone on the wall. Everything else- would be nice- but in no manner whatsoever necessary.

With respect of the couch- honestly- I think it should be consigned to a local bonfire at the first possible opportunity. You have both a sitting room and a living room- haven't seen that arrangement in years- however, the fact remains, if you had a couch in that room at the outset of the tenancy- you are entitled to a replacement couch as the current one is worn beyond redemption. It doesn't mean you're entitled to a new couch- just a serviceable couch.

The property does look dilapidated and sorry for itself- however, a lot of the works you've listed and documented in your photos- while ideal- aren't necessarily works that have to be done (I'd argue the roof and the wall- should be though).

Vis-à-vis the upkeep of the property- the landlord is legally obliged to maintain the property- he/she can however, offload maintenance of the property on you- via your leasehold obligations. Aka- he/she can make it a leasehold condition that you cut the grass and maintain the property- however, if you don't- they, not you, are liable (and any breach of the lease- in this respect is a civil matter between you and they). Its a fairly recent development- and its nice that its been clarified that the landlord is legally responsible- however, being legally responsible- and it getting done- as you have discovered, are two entirely different kettle of fish.