Lions v New Zealand 3rd Test Match Thread

Jump_In_Jack

Basil3 wrote: »

I think that the Barrett knock back for the Laumape try should have been a Lion's penalty as well. He wasn't going to catch the ball, and I know he wasn't competing with anyone, but there were Lion's players around and stuff.

Very good, I see how you made no sense there but you're still enjoying yourself.
Fair play.

clsmooth

Thought Johnny was great today one missed line kick aside. Made some threatening half breaks, his passing was good and tackled well. For all the hype regarding Farrell who is a very good player in his own right, Sexton still offers more. Reminds me of O'Driscoll in the way that he's obviously feeling the knocks but gets up, dusts himself down and shows the courage to keep taking it to the line. Some player.

deadybai

ThisRegard wrote:

Well it's not a loss is it. Can you imagine the whinging if it was loss?

They didn't go there not too lose though . They went to win.

If I was on the lions team today I would be very disappointed

PhlegmyMoses

Basil3 wrote: »

The Dagg incident was just bizarre. Williams could have just run around him.

Yeah, I think both were trying to game each other. If Williams is a yard or two further back Dagg gets pinged, if Williams moves a yard or two the left he forces Dagg to either turn and lose ground from a standing start or he gets Dagg's to move in his way and reaps the rewards from that too. Was weird from Williams as you say.

twinytwo

Hastentoadd wrote: »

Unbelievable decision by Poite. Offside is offside. When the ABs look back at this I think they will feel robbed by an absolutely shocking decision by the ref

Thankfully poite was the ref and not you.... as you a clear lack of understanding of the rules of rugby union.

ironingbored

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Still waiting on this outrage from the kiwis, haven't seen it

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11887904

twinytwo

irishman86 wrote: »

Theyve been made look human a few times recently, maybe the tide is changing. It was always going to be tough for a country the size of NZ to maintain a permanent dominance

NZ live and breath rugby - apart from wales it is not the first sport in any of the NH countries.

They should be able to remain on top.

Former Former

deadybai wrote: »

They didn't go there not too lose though . They went to win.

If I was on the lions team today I would be very disappointed

Jaysus.

They were huge favourites to lose 3-0. They needed serious luck to get a draw today.

This is a phenomenal result. Sure they'd have liked to win but they'll be delighted with a draw.

shootermacg

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Trying but not actually doing and instead doing something else, that's why it should have been a penalty.

Yeah AND he has a history of taking a man out on the restart too.

twinytwo

ironingbored wrote: »

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11887904

I laugh at this part:

In short, none of the four refereed to the rules of the game. They don't understand offside or advantage

They only dont understand when it goes against the AB's as per usual.

Asus X540L

Basil3 wrote: »

I think that the Barrett knock back for the Laumape try should have been a Lion's penalty as well. He wasn't going to catch the ball, and I know he wasn't competing with anyone, but there were Lion's players around and stuff.

Wat?

You just said it was a knock back then you claim it should have been a Lions penalty

Asus X540L

To be fair Liam Williams couldn't catch a cold at full back.
Absolutely shocking under the high ball in all 3 tests.

Just goes to to show how unclinical the allblacks were (uncharacteristically) that they didn't comfortably win this series 3-0.

I'm going to ask Gatland for tonight's lotto numbers cause he's easily the luckiest manager in the history of world rugby.

How many grand slams have an ordinary outfit like Wales won under him? Ireland under Joe Schimdt are better in all areas and haven't won a single GS.

I do think the TMO has become too intrusive.

At the end of the match, the ref went to the TMO to check the incident in the air. Incident was fine, stick with the decision. Instead, he changed his decision on something that he wasn't using the TMO for.

Same applies to the Laumape try. He went back through multiple phases to try to find a knock on that just wasn't there.

I hope it doesn't get to the point where you get a scenario like:

Ref: "Is there any reason why I can't award the try?"
TMO: "There was a potential neck roll 7 phases ago and 50m up the pitch"

First Up

twinytwo wrote:

NZ live and breath rugby - apart from wales it is not the first sport in any of the NH countries.

They should be able to remain on top.

From a population smaller than Ireland's its a fair achievement.

Asus X540L

Asus X540L wrote: »

Wat?

You just said it was a knock back then you claim it should have been a Lions penalty

I was attempting to say something as ridiculous as he was. I'm obviously a bit too subtle.

Asus X540L

First Up wrote: »

From a population smaller than Ireland's its a fair achievement.

Not really. imagine Ireland with no-0ne playing the GAH or soccer and a bunch of Polynesian supermen on tap.

MJohnston

irishman86 wrote: »

Im not Irish

This is the most interesting thing about the whole Lions tour for me.

Former Former

Asus X540L wrote: »

How many grand slams have an ordinary outfit like Wales won under him? Ireland under Joe Schimdt are better in all areas and haven't won a single GS.

Eh, if Wales are so ordinary but have been successful, wouldn't that indicate that they have a coach who can get the most out of his squad?

Christ lads, it's time to give Warren his due.

Buer

Asus X540L wrote:

Just goes to to show how unclinical the allblacks were (uncharacteristically) that they didn't comfortably win this series 3-0.

I've maintained all along this NZ side aren't in the same bracket as the great NZ teams of the past 12 years. Their success is purely relative to the standard of rugby elsewhere.

At no other point in the past 25 years have Australia and SA been so weak. NZ are the beneficiaries of poor opposition.

pickarooney

Basil3 wrote: »

His arm isn't just in his natural running position, he follows the ball and tries to catch it. It's an unfortunate mistake which should have been penalised, just like the one that the Lion's got at the end of the last test.

I'm going to have to say that ball actually went backwards off Williams and a scrum was a arsh call.

Asus X540L

Williams did a Ronaldo there. Complete dive after he completely missed the ball.

Plus that's not accidental as Jack MCGrath clearly caught it, realised it was a deliberate offside play then dropped it lol.
Conversely in the world cup the ball hit the Scot in the back and was clearly accidental.

I'm not too bothered as it's about time the ABs had decisions go against them.

Asus X540L

Asus X540L wrote: »

Williams did a Ronaldo there. Complete dive after he got nowhere near the ball.

After watching that multiple times, I do wonder whether he could have been yellow carded for dangerous play. Not only did he not try to actually land on his feet, he also looked like he wanted to knock himself out by not using his arms to break his fall. Weird stuff.

pickarooney

Buer wrote: »

Sky have registered a boards account, it appears.

Well we know who made the Loins flag now.

I though I was reading a review of the Sopranos finale.

irishman86

twinytwo wrote: »

NZ live and breath rugby - apart from wales it is not the first sport in any of the NH countries.

They should be able to remain on top.

Just look at Wales for example, they live and breathe rugby, but they arent as good as they were ever two years ago.
I dont see NZ not being number one, just that the gap is narrowing

irishman86

Asus X540L wrote: »

Wat?

You just said it was a knock back then you claim it should have been a Lions penalty

It was a joke brah

irishman86

MJohnston wrote: »

This is the most interesting thing about the whole Lions tour for me.

Its what Im called in my native France, and really over the super try :eek:

Buer

Former Former wrote: »

Christ lads, it's time to give Warren his due.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsNHeSoABYQ

CMOTDibbler

Asus X540L wrote: »

Williams did a Ronaldo there. Complete dive after he completely missed the ball.

Plus that's not accidental as Jack MCGrath clearly caught it, realised it was a deliberate offside play then dropped it lol.
Conversely in the world cup the ball hit the Scot in the back and was clearly accidental.

I'm not too bothered as it's about time the ABs had decisions go against them.

Glad you're not the ref so. Definite call for specsavers there. It was Ken Owens, not Jack McGrath.

irishman86

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Glad you're not the ref so. Definite call for specsavers there. It was Ken Owens, not Jack McGrath.

All those front rows look alike :pac:

Asus X540L

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Glad you're not the ref so. Definite call for specsavers there. It was Ken Owens, not Jack McGrath.

Bulb off each other though.

Buer

The big 16 on his back facing the camera probably more of a hint!

CatFromHue

It was definitely a dive from Williams, I think he dived earlier in the game too when he ran into Dagg.

Just when you think he's beginning to be all right.......

Buer

Regarding the final penalty/scrum, whatever about the rule book or interpretation, nobody can keep a straight face and say it wasn't a ridiculously fortunate outcome. Those calls are almost always for a penalty.

What makes it ridiculous/bizarre was that Poite actually said he was giving the penalty. He then reviewed it and said to the TMO that it was a knock on, played by an offside player and a penalty, asking Ayoub if he agreed who replied in the affirmative. Somehow, in the next 15 seconds, Poite changed his mind without consultation and that penalty became a scrum.

For me, Owens clearly reaches out his left arm to gather. He played the ball. He was offside.

But that slow motion replay could easily have ended up with a penalty against Read. We see those often given too. He didn't get a touch on the ball and jumped straight into a man in the air, which is likely to have caused the knock on.

It's a shame it's being boiled down to that one decision because the fact is that NZ butchered multiple chances and the game should have been buried before then. Fantastic defence and physicality from the Lions but Savea's knock on was an absolute shocker and in no way was caused by defensive pressure. Whatever about the other errors, that one was all down to poor NZ finishing.

Well done to Gatland though. The history books will have him as the only Lions head coach in history to be undefeated in multiple tours. He has done what nobody thought could be done and stuff the begrudgers and whiners. If they can't respect that, it says more about them.

CatFromHue

Have there been any similar incidents where the player who was offside dropped it straight away and didn't interfere in play?

The only ones I can think of are where the offside player keeps the ball or directly stops an opposition player from catching it.

SlickRic

thomond2006 wrote: »

Accidental offside was the correct call. Calling Owens' action deliberate/cynical would have been incredibly harsh.

As someone else said though, unbelievable quick thinking by Owens in the situation. If he'd caught the ball, as must've been his instinct, the penalty would've no doubt been given.

rudiger2.0

Buer wrote: »

Regarding the final penalty/scrum, whatever about the rule book or interpretation, nobody can keep a straight face and say it wasn't a ridiculously fortunate outcome. Those calls are almost always for a penalty.

What makes it ridiculous/bizarre was that Poite actually said he was giving the penalty. He then reviewed it and said to the TMO that it was a knock on, played by an offside player and a penalty, asking Ayoub if he agreed who replied in the affirmative. Somehow, in the next 15 seconds, Poite changed his mind without consultation and that penalty became a scrum.

Just watching back some highlights there with NZ commentary. After this when Poite's walking back to give the penalty, you can hear him say "Oui Jerome" and then he changed his mind. So I reckon Garces made the call or put it in his mind. Hansen alluded to it too.

Former Former

The last incident is like this. You could legitimately say it was:

- NZ penalty
- Lions penalty
- NZ scrum
- Play On!

Whichever call is "right" and the accompanying level of outrage is entirely a matter of perspective.

Hastentoadd

Buer wrote: »

Well done to Gatland though. The history books will have him as the only Lions head coach in history to be undefeated in multiple tours. He has done what nobody thought could be done and stuff the begrudgers and whiners. If they can't respect that, it says more about them.

Have to agree with this. For a manager to pull a bunch of players together and make them a team that can compete with the best in the world is a fantastic achievement. Gatland will always have his critics but when credit is due credit is due. I will say that Gatland's Lions are not a terribly exciting team to watch but they do the fundamentals well. They are good at closing down a team, even a team like the ABs, and making it a dogfight. And getting back to my original point, you are trying to combine a number of teams into one. As such what choice do you have other than closing down a team like the ABs. To play expansive rugby would have been a disaster with players who don't usually play on the same team. It is a huge achievement by Gatland and kudos to him.

bluedex

twinytwo wrote: »

ironingbored wrote: »

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11887904

I laugh at this part:

In short, none of the four refereed to the rules of the game. They don't understand offside or advantage

They only dont understand when it goes against the AB's as per usual.

The irony of kiwis moaning about officials!
😂
Anyone else does similar and they call them whingers.

nuac

sid waddell wrote: »

A truly epic finale to a series that will live forever in history.

Nearly two hours after the match ended and I'm still shaking.

Every bit of hype that surrounded this series was justified and then some.

The two greatest teams in world rugby threw everything, more than everything, at each other and still couldn't be separated.

We saw the very pinnacle of the game of rugby football today.

This, as the great Jim Telfer once said, was the British Loins' Everest. Today they are Sherpa Tenzing Norgay. They have arrived at the summit hand in hand with the New Zealanders. And half the DHL Cup can be couriered back home to sit alongside the Tom Richards Cup won in 2013.

My how this team and squad has grown. Credit to Gatty for creating a wonderful spirit in the camp. There were no Englishmen, Irishmen, Welshmen or Scotchmen out there today. There were only Loins and they were our Loins. I cheered as much for the brilliant Jonathan Davies, the indomitable Anthony Watson, the force of nature that is Maro Itoje and the hapless turned clutch Owen Farrell as I did for Jonny Sexton, Conor Murray or Sean O'Brien.

The land of the long white cloud will remember these Loins forever.

The great sporting spectacles always carry the possibility of a draw. The Charity Shield (it'll always be the Charity Shield) the Ashes, the Ryder Cup, fixed world title boxing fights, and, of course, a British Loins test series.

This series has been the sporting equivalent of The Italian Job.

A true classic where our British boys went abroad to bring home the prize against the odds. An exhilarating plot which built up to an incredible climax which was cut just as we were on the verge of finding out who would prevail.

It feels incredibly frustrating right now after three titanic tests, but I guess this is how it is meant to be.

And in time, as with the 1968 classic, we'll come to appreciate the unconventional beauty of the ending.

We'll never know what would have happened had it gone on, and that's the genius of it.

This series is about the result, of course it is, but its also about the legacy left behind. The legacy of courage, skill, flair and refusal to give in, ever. And that legacy will be a very rich one.

This team has well and truly put the pride in "pride of Loins".

We are privileged to have witnessed this tour and these test matches.

Saturday mornings just aren't going to be the same any more after the last five weeks.

There were some Irish boys there also.

And Lions, rather than Loins

but after that result, ayther will do

AdamD

The penalty Rhys Webb got for throwing a pass downwards at a player who had rolled away was an even more ludicrous decision than the the Ken Owens one which im fairly surprised anyone is trying to defend. Lions rode their luck big time.

Buer

AdamD wrote:

The penalty Rhys Webb got for throwing a pass downwards at a player who had rolled away was an even more ludicrous decision than the the Ken Owens one which im fairly surprised anyone is trying to defend. Lions rode their luck big time.

Webb bought that but the NZ player is foolish for being in the position to allow it to happen. He should have crawled away as far as possible instead of wriggling around when he wasn't trapped.

CMOTDibbler

AdamD wrote: »

The penalty Rhys Webb got for throwing a pass downwards at a player who had rolled away was an even more ludicrous decision than the the Ken Owens one which im fairly surprised anyone is trying to defend. Lions rode their luck big time.

A look at the law may help:

11.6 Accidental offside
(a) When an offside player cannot avoid being touched by the ball or by a team-mate carrying it, the player is accidentally offside. If the player’s team gains no advantage from this, play continues. If the player’s team gains an advantage, a scrum is formed with the opposing team throwing in the ball.12
(b) When a player hands the ball to a team-mate in front of the first player, the receiver is offside. Unless the receiver is considered to be intentionally offside (in which case a penalty kick is awarded), the receiver is accidentally offside and a scrum is formed with the opposing team throwing in the ball.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

Webb bought that but the NZ player is foolish for being in the position to allow it to happen. He should have crawled away as far as possible instead of wriggling around when he wasn't trapped.

Absolutely correct, assuming that being pinned by the head under Lawes' leg isn't trapped. The only time he wasn't wriggling was when he got free, and he lay to allow Webb to pass over him.

CatFromHue

AdamD wrote: »

The penalty Rhys Webb got for throwing a pass downwards at a player who had rolled away was an even more ludicrous decision than the the Ken Owens one which im fairly surprised anyone is trying to defend. Lions rode their luck big time.

Webb milked it all right, but equally Smith was nearly passing the ball to himself when putting it in at scrum time and then collecting it at the back.

Ardillaun

Sephiral wrote: »

Sky Commentators must be under instructions to not criticise English players.

Singling out itoje and vinipola too for praise.

Itoje deserves praise. NH rugby needs more players like that. ABs actually bounce off him sometimes.

AdamD

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

A look at the law may help:

11.6 Accidental offside
(a) When an offside player cannot avoid being touched by the ball or by a team-mate carrying it, the player is accidentally offside. If the player’s team gains no advantage from this, play continues. If the player’s team gains an advantage, a scrum is formed with the opposing team throwing in the ball.12
(b) When a player hands the ball to a team-mate in front of the first player, the receiver is offside. Unless the receiver is considered to be intentionally offside (in which case a penalty kick is awarded), the receiver is accidentally offside and a scrum is formed with the opposing team throwing in the ball.

Cannot avoid being touched? He caught the ball clear as day. Some mental gymnastics going on in here. Look, have you ever in your life seen that given as accidental? Just because it helped the team you support doesn't mean we have to justify it as correct. It would have been a horrible way to lose/win a game but it was still an incorrect decision.

irishbucsfan

AdamD wrote: »

Cannot avoid being touched? He caught the ball clear as day. Some mental gymnastics going on in here. Look, have you ever in your life seen that given as accidental? Just because it helped the team you support doesn't mean we have to justify it as correct. It would have been a horrible way to lose/win a game but it was still an incorrect decision.

Yes

Buer

Basil3 wrote: »

Absolutely correct, assuming that being pinned by the head under Lawes' leg isn't trapped. The only time he wasn't wriggling was when he got free, and he lay to allow Webb to pass over him.

Exactly! :pac: In fairness, yes, he had his head trapped but in that instance I do reckon knew well where he was falling and didn't make much of an effort straight away to move. He then realised he was in trouble when he did try and Webb completely milked it.

If you wanted something to really take issue with, to me it looks like Webb actually bangs the ball off his own knee deliberately and it doesn't touch Crockett.

Buer

bucsfan wrote: »

Yes

Yes but quite rarely and I've never, ever seen it reversed like it was today particularly after agreeing with the TMO it's a penalty. It was a bizarre situation.