Renting out furnished house

St1mpMeister

I'm considering taking up a job abroad. I own a property and rather than leaving it empty I'd like to rent it out, but concerned about the liberties those who rent it expect to have.

Basically I would like to leave all my "stuff" in the house like the TV, kitchen appliances etc, as I'm limited on storage space, but I wouldn't like the renter to do any alterations or swap out the TV etc.

So am I looking at purely AirBnB renters? Or would "Short Term Let" be governed by the same sort of restrictions??

I have someone here that can look after the AirBnB side of things if that's the best way to go.


I've rented properties in the past and I know that you are normally given the full run of the house.

Nekarsulm

A lot of work in Air b&B for someone. I'd leave it empty myself, cause you'll came back in a year or two and end up skipping everything and buying new. Also you'll be decorating totally and buying new carpets etc (If fitted).
Will potentially cost you money to have someone in it.

You could even come back in two years and find your tenant won't leave, making you homeless for however long it takes to get them out legally!

paudgenator

Nekarsulm wrote: »

A lot of work in Air b&B for someone. I'd leave it empty myself, cause you'll came back in a year or two and end up skipping everything and buying new. Also you'll be decorating totally and buying new carpets etc (If fitted).
Will potentially cost you money to have someone in it.

You could even come back in two years and find your tenant won't leave, making you homeless for however long it takes to get them out legally!

?

Really? Omg..so how long can a tenant stay and you can still get them out..6 months, 1 year?

68 lost souls

There are specialised letting agents for this situation. They can also arrange packing the contents down, storing and then unpacking on your return

St1mpMeister

Nekarsulm wrote: »

A lot of work in Air b&B for someone. I'd leave it empty myself, cause you'll came back in a year or two and end up skipping everything and buying new. Also you'll be decorating totally and buying new carpets etc (If fitted).
Will potentially cost you money to have someone in it.

Not bothered about carpets, I can lock the door to the "office" room and store any valuables in there, leaving the bedroom and other rooms open.

You see I think the AirBnB approach might work as the tenants would be short-term so less chance of leaving a mess over long-term no?

What is the "work" involved in making it an AirBnB? I could hire a maid to clean up on a regular basis.

Nekarsulm wrote: »

You could even come back in two years and find your tenant won't leave, making you homeless for however long it takes to get them out legally!

Hmm I thought the AirBnB way would negate anything like that happening??!

i.e. the rent is short-term and they have ratings to worry about etc

St1mpMeister

68 lost souls wrote: »

There are specialised letting agents for this situation. They can also arrange packing the contents down, storing and then unpacking on your return

Letting out a house, can I lock down certain rooms like the front room/attic/garden shed and use those for storage?

Also I don't want the interior walls painted or any interior changes like new nails in the wall etc, so again I don't think you can make those restrictions on a normal rental property.

Plus I'd like to be able to move back in within a month's notice if things didn't work out abroad... so I'd need that flexibility.

Graham

Contrary to popular opinion, the majority of tenants won't trash the place or refuse to leave at the end of a tenancy. That said it would probably be a little optimistic to think you're going to get the house back in exactly the condition it was let in.

OP, you have to understand that if you're letting out your property, it will become someones home for the duration. What you view as taking liberties, others may view as living in the house they're paying rent for. If you're thinking someone is going to pay for the privilege of house-sitting then the chances of you returning disappointed are significantly increased.

Personally I'd avoid the short-term/holiday lets for 2 main reasons. 1) It increases the amount of work you (or someone being paid by you) has to do. 2) It increases the odds of you being landed with an undesirable guest for no other reason than the volume of guests/residents is increased by many multiples.

Graham

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Letting out a house, can I lock down certain rooms like the front room/attic/garden shed and use those for storage?

Also I don't want the interior walls painted or any interior changes like new nails in the wall etc, so again I don't think you can make those restrictions on a normal rental property.

Plus I'd like to be able to move back in within a month's notice if things didn't work out abroad... so I'd need that flexibility.

1) yes. But loft access may be required if anything happens to the water tank etc. Expect a tenant to negotiate on the rent to take into account the loss of any rooms.

2) You absolutely can restrict tenants from redecorating.

3) Could be your stumbling block. After 6 months your tenant acquires Part 4 rights so is entitled to minimum notice periods.

St1mpMeister

Graham wrote: »

1) yes. But loft access may be required if anything happens to the water tank etc. Expect a tenant to negotiate on the rent to take into account the loss of any rooms.

2) You absolutely can restrict tenants from redecorating.

3) Could be your stumbling block. After 6 months your tenant acquires Part 4 rights so is entitled to minimum notice periods.

1) There's nothing in the attic apart from storage space, the water tank is outside in the boiler house in the garden.

2) Grand.

3) Not too much of any issue, I can work around that. What sort of notice periods are we talking about?


The more I think about it, I might be OK with a standard long-term renter as I can probably just put all the personal possessions in the front bedroom/attic and lock those rooms down. I always assumed that a renter would expect to have access to every room.

I know this lessens the rental value as you are renting a 1 bed rather than a 2 bed, but it would be cheaper than renting out a storage garage and having to move everything.

Samuel T. Cogley

Graham wrote: »

2) You absolutely can restrict tenants from redecorating.

Funny you should say this, came across this the other day:

Chapter 2

Provisions regarding tenant's obligations

...

16 -
(l) not alter or improve the dwelling without the written consent of the landlord which consent the landlord—
(i) in case the alteration or improvement consists only of repairing, painting and decorating, or any of those things, may not unreasonably withhold,

18.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), no provision of any lease, tenancy agreement, contract or other agreement (whether entered into before, on or after the commencement of this Part) may operate to vary, modify or restrict in any way section 12 or 16 .

(2) Subsection (1) does not prevent more favourable terms for the tenant than those that apply by virtue of section 12 being provided for in the lease or tenancy agreement concerned.

(3) Obligations additional to those specified in section 16 may be imposed on the tenant by the lease or tenancy agreement concerned but only if those obligations are consistent with this Act.

Graham

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Funny you should say this, came across this the other day:

Chapter 2

Provisions regarding tenant's obligations

...

16 -
(l) not alter or improve the dwelling without the written consent of the landlord which consent the landlord—
(i) in case the alteration or improvement consists only of repairing, painting and decorating, or any of those things, may not unreasonably withhold,

18.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), no provision of any lease, tenancy agreement, contract or other agreement (whether entered into before, on or after the commencement of this Part) may operate to vary, modify or restrict in any way section 12 or 16 .

(2) Subsection (1) does not prevent more favourable terms for the tenant than those that apply by virtue of section 12 being provided for in the lease or tenancy agreement concerned.

(3) Obligations additional to those specified in section 16 may be imposed on the tenant by the lease or tenancy agreement concerned but only if those obligations are consistent with this Act.

Interesting.

Not redecorate without the permission of the ....... has been a pretty standard feature of any lease I've ever seen/signed. Likewise, I've never known a private tenant go redecorating without getting the ok from the landlord first.

If OP is only going to be away for a year or two and the property is in fairly good order now, I guess it's unlikely a tenant would even ask. If it's not in great order now, redecorating may do the OP a favour

I suspect most tenants signing a lease telling them they cannot redecorate without the permission of the landlord will not know the landlord can't unreasonably refuse.

NinetyTwoTeam

You can't actually leave your belongings in a locked room and rent it out to someone else for several reasons.

The tenant is paying to rent the whole house, to store their belongings, not to keep yours.

Even if the room is locked, you are essentially expecting the tenant to mind your items, which is typically only expected when a tenant has use of them as part of the house.

Whatever agent you use will be unable to do an inventory for the incoming tenant bc the tenant and agent or LL have to be present to witness and agree on what things belonging to the house are there.

If the tenant wants to get renters insurance, would your items be included? How would that work?

Any tenant paying to rent a place will expect the full house to be available. Not to pay for the privelege of storing their landlords stuff. And for all the tenant knows there could be kilos of drugs semtex, a dead hooker, etc in the locked room.

Graham

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

You can't actually leave your belongings in a locked room and rent it out to someone else for several reasons.

The tenant is paying to rent the whole house, to store their belongings, not to keep yours.

Even if the room is locked, you are essentially expecting the tenant to mind your items, which is typically only expected when a tenant has use of them as part of the house.

Whatever agent you use will be unable to do an inventory for the incoming tenant bc the tenant and agent or LL have to be present to witness and agree on what things belonging to the house are there.

If the tenant wants to get renters insurance, would your items be included? How would that work?

Any tenant paying to rent a place will expect the full house to be available. Not to pay for the privelege of storing their landlords stuff. And for all the tenant knows there could be kilos of drugs semtex, a dead hooker, etc in the locked room.

I don't see an issue with it, particularly if the rent is adjusted accordingly and the advert doesn't specify more than the number of rooms available to the tenant.

St1mpMeister

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Funny you should say this, came across this the other day:

Chapter 2

Provisions regarding tenant's obligations

...
<SNIP>

TLDR, just to summarise this in plain speak, does this say the tenant has a right to decorate WITHOUT letting the landlord know?

Graham wrote: »

If OP is only going to be away for a year or two and the property is in fairly good order now, I guess it's unlikely a tenant would even ask. If it's not in great order now, redecorating may do the OP a favour

Yeah the house is in immaculate condition and I spent ages (and money) decorating it so don't want the colour scheme changed.

Also all heating/plumbing is in perfect condition (had bathroom refitted this year in fact)

Graham wrote: »

I don't see an issue with it, particularly if the rent is adjusted accordingly and the advert doesn't specify more than the number of rooms available to the tenant.

Yeah I would have thought so. Can you not just treat it as a "rent a room" rather than "rent a house"?

I'd obviously be willing to charge something like 70% of the going rental rate in the area, considering they are getting 70% of the house.

The_Conductor

Honestly- even if it costs extra- the OP should store any items they wish to keep- elsewhere. You can take out an annual contract with a storage unit.

You could offer a tenant a 2 year lease with the express stipulation that it is a 2 year lease, not extendable- but you will also have to serve proper notice to end the tenancy to the tenant in due course.

There are tax implications- and management implications- you are expected to appoint an Irish management agent to manage the tenancy (if you do not- the tenant is legally expected to deduct 20% witholding tax from the rent and forward it to Revenue).

Its messy- and to be brutally honest- in your situation- I'd be more inclined to have a good friends drop in every couple of weeks, do some dusting, sort the post- that sort of thing- than let the property- if its entirely foreseeable that you're going to want it back in 2 years time.

It may be a small cohort of tenants who give landlords who are trying to let short term- the willies- but if a tenant decided to act up- and not leave (for any reason at all- including the fact that they may be unable to find alternate accommodation locally)- while these type cases are now prioritised by the RTB- its far from uncommon for the tenant to take 1 year + (or even longer) to finally vacate a property.

Good luck with locking a room and keeping your stuff in it- honestly- it doesn't work that way.

If you're willing to clear the place out, store your stuff offsite, and give a tenant free reign of the property- and then hand over to an agent who will, in exchange for a 10-15% cut of the rent- manage the tenancy on your behalf- and then make the necessary tax arrangements, insurance arrangements, notify the mortgage holder etc etc- fine- off you go.

It is not as simple as stowing your stuff in the office, locking the door- handing the key to someone to mind your place for 2 years- and expecting to immediately walk back in the door when you return 2 years hence.

The_Conductor

Whatever about getting 70% of the going rent for an area- you *need* to get an agent to manage the tenancy- it doesn't matter that the place is impeccable- thats expected, rather than an exception.

In addition- this charge 70% of the going rate- is nonsense and will only cause you trouble. If you get a tenant (or multiple tenants in) charging them 70% of the going rate- they 100% definitely are not going to be able to find commensurate accommodation when you come back- 2 years down the road- and may, despite their best efforts, end up either deliberately or entirely inadvertently, overholding.

Charge the going rate.
The agent you have manage the tenancy gets a 10-15% cut of the rental income.
Enumerate the costs involved (RTB tenancy registration costs etc)
75% of mortgage interest is an allowable cost
Management charges are an allowable cost

etc etc'

Don't even think about airbnb- the amount of overhead involved in managing it is mindboggling. I.e. you'd need decent trustworthy cleaners in after every single letting- and you'd have a significant volume of different people- none of whom would treat your property as your property- its an overnight bed for them- nothing more.

You really need to think this through properly.

PhoenixParker

First thing I'd do is get a storage unit and move everything personal and that I care about into it. I would absolutely not go for the locking off a room option.

If you're going the normal renting route I would include removing small items - crockery, utensils, small appliances, saucepans etc. with that. Anything you provide your liable for maintenance on and most tenants will have their own stuff they'd prefer anyway. If you're going airbnb I'd leave the minimum or close to it.

Personally I'd go the airbnb route and use a managed service to organise it. Let them do everything for a big chunk of the fees. It removes the risk of an overholding tenant and takes the hassle out of it for you.

dennyk

The_Conductor wrote: »

You could offer a tenant a 2 year lease with the express stipulation that it is a 2 year lease, not extendable- but you will also have to serve proper notice to end the tenancy to the tenant in due course.

That would only work if the OP was definitely moving back in after two years. A lease cannot override Part 4 tenancy rights, so even at the end of a two year lease the tenancy can only be ended by the landlord for a reason allowable under Part 4. If the OP was not actually moving back into the house at that time, he could not end the tenancy (and when he does decide to move back in, he'd have to provide the required notice at that time).

The_Conductor

PhoenixParker wrote: »

Personally I'd go the airbnb route and use a managed service to organise it. Let them do everything for a big chunk of the fees. It removes the risk of an overholding tenant and takes the hassle out of it for you.

What PhoenixParker is suggesting- is probably the way to go- it removes a lot of the uncertainty, your rental income, even after the managed service take their chunk, will still be better than renting- and you have no worries about taking the property back at any time.

St1mpMeister

Cool, yeah I think it wouldn't be fair on a full-time tenant to expect them to be "excluded" from certain areas of the house (which was my original assumption having been a renter myself previously).

Can I try out AirBnB for a short period or do you need to commit to a min 12 months or anything?

Also recommend any companies that manage AirBnB rentals?

Samuel T. Cogley

In regards to redecoration - permission must be sought however the LL cannot refuse a reasonable request. That said I'm sure a stipulation of a professional P&D and some discussion on colour would be more than reasonable and put most tenants off doing it - not that many will want to do it anyway.

Also just to note it's 80% mortgage interest relief now.

The_Conductor

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Also recommend any companies that manage AirBnB rentals?

We're not allowed to recommend any specific companies here- however, just put in 'airbnb management dublin' in Google- and scroll down past the obvious advertisements at the top of the page. The first 4 or 5- read through the recommendations and google people's experiences with them- and see whether any of them meet your requirements. Keep away from gumtree or other personal advertisements- they're too risky. Also- keep in mind- airbnb are not the only reputable company who manage overnight or short term lettings- booking.com is another obvious one that comes to mind- I'm sure there are others too.

St1mpMeister

cool thanks all

Claw Hammer

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

You can't actually leave your belongings in a locked room and rent it out to someone else for several reasons.

The tenant is paying to rent the whole house, to store their belongings, not to keep yours.

Even if the room is locked, you are essentially expecting the tenant to mind your items, which is typically only expected when a tenant has use of them as part of the house.

Whatever agent you use will be unable to do an inventory for the incoming tenant bc the tenant and agent or LL have to be present to witness and agree on what things belonging to the house are there.

If the tenant wants to get renters insurance, would your items be included? How would that work?

Any tenant paying to rent a place will expect the full house to be available. Not to pay for the privelege of storing their landlords stuff. And for all the tenant knows there could be kilos of drugs semtex, a dead hooker, etc in the locked room.

That is not correct. The tenant can be leased X no of rooms at a particular address with the condition that the landlord has right of access to any locked rooms. Unless the letting market in the area is very week most tenants are only going to be concerned about having enough space for themselves. They are not minding anything. What is in the locked room stays there. Insurance can't include anything a person doesn't own. Each person has to insure their own goods.
It is quite simple, a tenant wants a 3 bedroom house. They can get a 4 bedroom house with one locked room at a similar price.

Elfay

Speaking as someone who has been a property manager (in the US-for apt. complexes) I just want to throw this out there: I and HUNDREDS of other people are trying to find somewhere to live in/around Dublin right now.

People need to start thinking outside the box to solve problems. Yes, I know there are good rules in place to protect people and I'm all for that. But If you have a space, and it's going to sit empty, I for one would much rather meet you, go over the issues and brainstorm a solution. You want your stuff kept there? Fine? You want to come back on 30 days notice? Fine. In the meantime, I get to live somewhere safe and happy with my stuff. There's always a way. Be creative.

People are just trying to live their life here. That is getting impossible. I've been in Europe 20 years and Dublin for 8 years and the idea that I'm simply 'not rich enough' to live here is obscene.

*I have no idea where your house is, I was just using Dublin, and myself, as an example.

Graham

One of the problems is the residential tenancies act overrides many of those outside-the-box ideas.

We have laws around residential tenancies that neither party can officially opt out of.

The_Conductor

Graham wrote: »

One of the problems is the residential tenancies act overrides many of those outside-the-box ideas.

We have laws around residential tenancies that neither party can officially opt out of.

Legally a landlord cannot contract out any rights or obligations he or she has towards a tenant. I.e. you cannot overrule the Residential Tenancies Act- you can offer conditions better than those in the Act to a tenant- but you cannot detract from them in any manner.

Freddiestar

Would it be possible to rent under the rent-a-room scheme? Therefore no tax, PRTB, contract etc.
Under those rules I believe it has to be the LLs primary place of residence and must live there ''for the greater part of the year'', whatever that means.
Just a thought!!

paudgenator

St1mpMeister wrote: »

Cool, yeah I think it wouldn't be fair on a full-time tenant to expect them to be "excluded" from certain areas of the house (which was my original assumption having been a renter myself previously).

Can I try out AirBnB for a short period or do you need to commit to a min 12 months or anything?

Also recommend any companies that manage AirBnB rentals?

We're looking at hostready.co to manage Airbnb/short term rentals.

St1mpMeister

The_Conductor wrote: »

Legally a landlord cannot contract out any rights or obligations he or she has towards a tenant. I.e. you cannot overrule the Residential Tenancies Act- you can offer conditions better than those in the Act to a tenant- but you cannot detract from them in any manner.

Just for the record.

Is advertising this place as a 1 bed house (i.e. you get access to all of downstairs and all of upstairs except for 1 other bedroom) breaking any legal rules for tenants?

Also what's the "rent a room" thing, is that not basically the same idea and you can assume the other "tenant" just keeps his bedroom door shut all the time?

Elfay

OK, The nitty gritty is likely all absolutely true.
And to be honest, Ireland has some of the worst tenants rights law in the western world - but that not withstanding.

A property owner could:
Hire a 'caretaker' with zero salary. Arrange for the property to be held by a ''House sitter' again, not for a salary, but so that is has occupants and the bills get paid.
Get a cat - Then get a 'cat sitter'....

If there's land (a back garden) permission to set a Tiny House or Garden Studio there. If there's Elderly or disabled Family members that the owner would like to help - a live in carer or exchange.

The list could go on.....