Very poor article in The Sun paper by Rob Gill

liamog

Autochange wrote: »

My posts seem to have touched a nerve with you.
I used work in the motor trade some years ago and had heard of the widely held opinion of Ev shoppers and drivers. Dont blame me basically. Its widespread.

Early adopters are always thought to be strange, by definition they are doing something different to normal. The first people to buy touchscreen phones were making a weird choice and living with the compromises, then Apple came along and made it normal.

Autochange

Autochange wrote: »

Its actually 40 percent of new cars were Evs nor Norway last year .Norway has massive oil reserves and the revenues are used to fund such infrastructure. We live in Ireland remember a place that dosnt even have adequate healthcare, housing, public transport infrastructure etc etc

Well we'll have even less money if we have to pay the millions in fines from breaching emissions limits.

Autochange wrote: »

It will be a long long time before anything similar happens here. Our ridiculous road tax costs are helping keep the country going for one thing
Enjoy your low tax costs and maintenance savings. You will likely have them for a long time to come.

The future for diesels in Ireland is far more uncertain than it is for electrics.

The Government can do anything , I'd be more cautious buying a new diesel today than EV.

Orebro

Autochange wrote: »

I used work in the motor trade some years ago and had heard of the widely held opinion of Ev shoppers and drivers. Dont blame me basically. Its widespread.

I speak with a high level of confidence when I say EV drivers couldn't care less what the motor trade think of them.

Autochange

Orebro wrote: »

I speak with a high level of confidence when I say EV drivers couldn't care less what the motor trade think of them.

And i speak with a high level of confidence when i say i dont care about the opinions of the motor trade or the opinions of EV drivers also.

Orebro

Autochange wrote: »

And i speak with a high level of confidence when i say i dont care about the opinions of the motor trade or the opinions of EV drivers also.

Which begs the question what you're doing on this particular forum.

Autochange

Orebro wrote: »

Which begs the question what you're doing on this particular forum.

To read the article and come up with my own opinion.

Orebro

Autochange wrote: »

To read the article and come up with my own opinion.

Good man.

jackofalltrades

Deleted User wrote: »

The Leaf and the Ioniq can all be got for similar cost to other hatch diesels such as the Golf, I30, Megane, Cee'd etc etc. The E-Golf is more expensive but probably not much more than a higher powered TDI such as the 180 Hp.

Picking the cheapest version of both EV and diesels.

Nissan Leaf €24390.
Hyundai Ioniq €28495

VW Golf € 25,895
Hyundai I30 €21,995
Renault Megane €19490
Kia Cee'd €22600

The diesels still come in cheaper.

goz83

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Its a bit hypocritical to say that EV's are not perfect, then criticise a journalist who points out their limitations.

The product is not good enough at the moment and that includes the ioniq - uptake will only increase as the product improves (as it will)

It's plenty good enough for me at the moment. Less of the broad statements please. I drove 70klm round trip today. It's now plugged in....set on timer...and will be fully charged tomorrow.

The same is true for the second Leaf. Well, almost....the wife just pulled into the driveway with chipper

Later :cool:

Orebro

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Picking the cheapest version of both EV and diesels.

Nissan Leaf €24390.
Hyundai Ioniq €28495

VW Golf € 25,895
Hyundai I30 €21,995
Renault Megane €19490
Kia Cee'd €22600

The diesels still come in cheaper.

Leaf starts at €21490 according to Nissan.ie

isnottheword

Autochange wrote: »

My posts seem to have touched a nerve with you.

Meh...yes and no. You basically called all EV drivers weirdos...but am I bovvered? I guess I should be but not so much.

Autochange wrote: »

I used work in the motor trade some years ago and had heard of the widely held opinion of Ev shoppers and drivers. Dont blame me basically. Its widespread.

What? That early adopters of electric are likely to be progressive geeks? That there is more take-up re. EV in Silicon Valley than there is in Redneck Central in the 'States for example? I'm quite happy to belong to that group. As regards 'don't blame me', if I was of a mind to apportion blame, then yes you have perpetuated what you suggest is the widespread belief 'in the motor trade'. Either that is or that isn't your point of view - else why on earth even bring it up?

Autochange wrote: »

I am aware of the business model Tesla are promoting by having no franchised dealerships but Hyundai, Ford etc are not Tesla.

Indeed they're not albeit the context in which this was raised is relevant i.e. there's damn all maintenance to be carried out on an EV (comparatively speaking if a diesel or petrol is the benchmark).

Autochange wrote: »

Its actually 40 percent of new cars were Evs nor Norway last year

Thank you - I thought so - but wasn't going to spend the time searching for it.

Autochange wrote: »

Norway has massive oil reserves and the revenues are used to fund such infrastructure. We live in Ireland remember a place that dosnt even have adequate healthcare, housing, public transport infrastructure etc etc
It will be a long long time before anything similar happens here. Our ridiculous road tax costs are helping keep the country going for one thing
Enjoy your low tax costs and maintenance savings. You will likely have them for a long time to come.

It doesn't need to be the case. However, from a personal point of view, delighted if you're right. If people can't run the numbers (together with seeing the environmental up-side), more fool them.

Shefwedfan

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

eGolf - List price € 44,890
2.0 TDI GTD DSG 5 dr € 42,295

Still sure about that?

Just a small point....

The eGolf comes as standard with all the extra's. I think you will find the Golf price you include will not have them, loads of optional

The Golf I bought, for the same money I could have bought a TDi version, would have been circa same money. Would of probably had more mileage and would not even touch the spec that is on the eGolf.

liamog

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Picking the cheapest version of both EV and diesels.

Nissan Leaf €24390.
Hyundai Ioniq €28495

VW Golf € 25,895
Hyundai I30 €21,995
Renault Megane €19490
Kia Cee'd €22600

The diesels still come in cheaper.

The comparative model of the I30 to the Ioniq in terms of features is the Diesel Deluxe Plus at €25,995.

You'd save the €2,500 in the first two years of motoring.

Jobs OXO

liamog wrote: »

The comparative model of the I30 to the Ioniq in terms of features is the Diesel Deluxe Plus at €25,995.

You'd save the €2,500 in the first two years of motoring.

So the article was factually correct then?

liamog

Jobs OXO wrote: »

So the article was factually correct then?

In that the up-front cost for a comparable car is higher, yes, though if we're using that as a metric then Hybrids are straight out of the window.

You'd have to be a very short sighted person to buy a new car based on an up front cost saving of less than 10% which is recovered in the first 18/24 months of ownership.

goz83

liamog wrote: »

You'd have to be a very short sighted person to buy a new car based on an up front cost saving of less than 10% which is recovered in the first 18/24 months of ownership.

We live in a society where people often buy their car based on the annual motor tax bill

ELM327

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Picking the cheapest version of both EV and diesels.

Nissan Leaf €24390.
Hyundai Ioniq €28495

VW Golf € 25,895
Hyundai I30 €21,995
Renault Megane €19490
Kia Cee'd €22600

The diesels still come in cheaper.

Que?
No they do not, as the leaf EV is actually cheaper than all the diesels you've listed. As said below:

Orebro wrote: »

Leaf starts at €21490 according to Nissan.ie

tedpan

Photo links are not working again..

Is this the article?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/3965242/car-giant-volvo-says-all-its-cars-will-be-electric-from-2019-but-charging-them-is-time-consuming-costly-and-you-cant-even-go-very-far/

What a twat anyway..

Shefwedfan

I would take the Paddy Power/Ryanair mantra on this. Any publicity is good publicity. Go back 12 months and you will be hard pressed to find a single article in a newspaper with any reference to electric cars

12 months on and most days there is some sort of article. Never mind the idiot journalists that write the stories. Most of them are taking a back hander and afraid of there lives they would piss off some manufacturer and not get invited to the next freebie. The fact is there is an article and advertisement

Most people reading the papers don't actually read the full article(20-50 age range). What you will find is they breeze over them and the idea will lodge in there head, once they see the same topic multiple times it will actually register with them and they will go and find out themselves. This is normally via web and forums like this. Newspaper only really have a swing in the 50+ age range anymore

So the fact electric cars are in papers will mean more people will look at them as option.

I held a party at weekend, 20 + adults. I have made a point to never bring up my car unless someone asks me about it. The discussion came onto electric cars. 1 person was already looking to buy, 6 other said they would be buying electric probably on next car. Rest due to work(long mileage) would not and then 1-3 other wanted to buy hybrid.

Now that is not a bad uptake if you ask me and that is real life. The people that where sticking to diesel surprised me as most of them said the day of diesel is dead and once the electric could do the mileage they would swap as well.

So for the negative people out there, you can kick and scream all you want but the world is a changing.....nothing you can do about it

For the positive posters out there, I wouldn't waste your time arguing with people who don't want to know the benefits, wait for the people who will arrive on this forum asking questions and give them the information, that is how you change minds and grow the community.

Some people will never change and let them at it, just read a few threads on the main motor forum with the unbelievable economical diesels everyone on there is driving. Even the manufacturer of the car says the km/100 is not possible. It's all bullsh*t but if they want to waste there money then let them off. It's no skin off my nose.......

Oh yeah and to the papers that might read this forum, thank you for all your bullsh*t articles. You are helping to advertise even if you don't mean it

liamog

Mahatma Ghandi wrote:

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Seems like we're crossing into stage 3.

oppenheimer1

goz83 wrote: »

It's plenty good enough for me at the moment. Less of the broad statements please. I drove 70klm round trip today. It's now plugged in....set on timer...and will be fully charged tomorrow.

The same is true for the second Leaf. Well, almost....the wife just pulled into the driveway with chipper

Later :cool:

That's fine. And what's on the market suits plenty of people. That said people do clearly know what is on offer at the moment with electric and hybrid when many are willing to consider one as their next purchase. It does mean that they have said no to the current generation.

Change will come when the product improves and/or the price comes down.

What we need is a 15 K EV that can get 300 Kms. That's a decade away. One reason Zoe won't sell in Ireland is because people just think of it as an ultra expensive Clio, 15K Petrol Clio V 28 K 40 Kwh Zoe ? doesn't stand a chance in Ireland, the majority of Clios sold are the 1.2 Petrol.

What the new clio buyers should be looking at are 2nd hand Leafs, far better car, especially the 30 Kwh when more of them become available 2nd hand.

ELM327

I think we are at least 5 years away from EVs being a viable option in the public mindset.
There's always a few early adopters who can see the wood from the trees but the rest are going to buy diesels until (a) the EV is equal in terms of range even though they dont ever use it or (b) the arabs run out of oil.

I think the cheap diesel motor tax is a serious problem, if they had left it alone electrics would probably sell much better.

The Greens bought into this Global Warming and Co2 is the devil that we now have far more much higher polluting cars on the road today , ignoring the real emissions from cars.

Ireland has very little forest, and trees absolutely love Co2 if that's their worry, it's not, they just wanted to do what all the gobsh1tes in Europe were doing and didn't want to be different or to be seen as not being green.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

I think we are at least 5 years away from EVs being a viable option in the public mindset.
There's always a few early adopters who can see the wood from the trees but the rest are going to buy diesels until (a) the EV is equal in terms of range even though they dont ever use it or (b) the arabs run out of oil.

Anecdotally it's getting there. Many people we talk to around Dublin say they'd consider one for the next car purchase.

I think the 5 year scale is pretty accurate though, we need the 200km+ plus cars to trickle into the second hand marker which will take around 3 years.

Shefwedfan

liamog wrote: »

Anecdotally it's getting there. Many people we talk to around Dublin say they'd consider one for the next car purchase.

I think the 5 year scale is pretty accurate though, we need the 200km+ plus cars to trickle into the second hand marker which will take around 3 years.

I do find it funny about this 200km+ requirement. Especially in Dublin.

At conversation at weekend one of the people had bought a brand new hybrid. Toyota CHR, 35k or something it cost :eek:

I asked why they wouldn't have looked at Electric, wouldn't have long enough battery etc etc was answer.....

i asked simple question, how many times in last 12 months on a single day did they need to go over 100km. In the last 12 month it was 2 trips. Two trips in 12 months. So for the other 350+ days of the year the brand new 30k+ car would travel less than 100km each day.

That is one person, how many other city drivers if they actual think about it have the same requirements.

I live in what I call the commuter belt outside Dublin, so my daily driving would be longer than normal Dublin city & suburbs driver, Friday is a perfect example of what I drive on busy day:
To work & back home
Back out to pick up kids from summer camp, went on to pick up other kid from creche
Went down road to mates to pick up some stuff
Went to shops to do large weekly shop
I got home that night with 20km left. I did no top up during day.

How many million are in Dublin with Petrol/Diesel cars and do for 340+ days a year less than 100km per day? If you do a poll I would say in the total population with cars you would be in the high 90's.

The issue is not the 200km+, the issue is that if you go to buy electric majority of people point you in direction of Leaf....I will keep my opinion of the Leaf to another discussion :P

if you go petrol/diesel you have loads of choice. The market doesn't need distance, it needs choice.

oppenheimer1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I do find it funny about this 200km+ requirement. Especially in Dublin.

At conversation at weekend one of the people had bought a brand new hybrid. Toyota CHR, 35k or something it cost :eek:

I asked why they wouldn't have looked at Electric, wouldn't have long enough battery etc etc was answer.....

i asked simple question, how many times in last 12 months on a single day did they need to go over 100km. In the last 12 month it was 2 trips. Two trips in 12 months. So for the other 350+ days of the year the brand new 30k+ car would travel less than 100km each day.

That is one person, how many other city drivers if they actual think about it have the same requirements.

I live in what I call the commuter belt outside Dublin, so my daily driving would be longer than normal Dublin city & suburbs driver, Friday is a perfect example of what I drive on busy day:
To work & back home
Back out to pick up kids from summer camp, went on to pick up other kid from creche
Went down road to mates to pick up some stuff
Went to shops to do large weekly shop
I got home that night with 20km left. I did no top up during day.

How many million are in Dublin with Petrol/Diesel cars and do for 340+ days a year less than 100km per day? If you do a poll I would say in the total population with cars you would be in the high 90's.

The issue is not the 200km+, the issue is that if you go to buy electric majority of people point you in direction of Leaf....I will keep my opinion of the Leaf to another discussion :P

if you go petrol/diesel you have loads of choice. The market doesn't need distance, it needs choice.

The thing is, what do you do when you urgently need to up and go on a long journey? What do you do on the 15 or so days of the year you need to go outside of range? A car is about more than the hum-drum regular commuting needs of people, its a tool that gives people the freedom to go whenever they want, where-ever they want. Even if a user never travels outside the home range with their car, the fact that such a short range exists is both a psychological and real limitation to the freedom a car provides.

We often hear in this forum about how the government needs to improve incentives - like dropping motor tax or allowing EV use in bus lanes. This is of course in addition to the huge incentives these cars and owners already enjoy like grants, tax rebates and excise free fuel. These advantages are the primary reason these cars are used by the owners here, not high minded notions of environmentalism, the smoother drive or any other spurious reason often given.

We never hear of the real changes that are required - the product itself needs to improve. In fact it needs to improve so much that people will choose the EV without tax incentives, rebates or excise breaks.

Orebro

Right now I rent a car if I my EV doesn't meet a requirement for whatever reason. Happens about twice a year. E.g. I rented a seven seater mpv a few weeks ago when we were going on holidays. Believe me it works out far far cheaper than owning one! I can also rent the vehicle that meets my requirements - so way more flexible in that case.

I agree wholeheartedly with Shefwedfan - absolutely crazy to purchase an expensive vehicle to fill the gap of a couple of days in the year when the current crop of EVs don't suit.

oppenheimer1

Orebro wrote: »

Right now I rent a car if I my EV doesn't meet a requirement for whatever reason. Happens about twice a year. E.g. I rented a seven seater mpv a few weeks ago when we were going on holidays. Believe me it works out far far cheaper than owning one! I can also rent the vehicle that meets my requirements - so way more flexible in that case.

I agree wholeheartedly with Shefwedfan - absolutely crazy to purchase an expensive vehicle to fill the gap of a couple of days in the year when the current crop of EVs don't suit.

Imagine you had to attend an emergency on the other side of the country at a moments notice. An EV owner, to make that journey, has to use the public charger network which can be both unreliable and congested at times, hire or borrow a car or take public transport.

I know you will scoff at this scenario but for some people it will play out at least once for them, particularly if they are originally from the country and have elderly parents. For most it won't - but its the psychological barrier that needs to be overcome, and I don't think it will until the EV can go coast to coast on a single charge.

liamog

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How many million are in Dublin with Petrol/Diesel cars and do for 340+ days a year less than 100km per day? If you do a poll I would say in the total population with cars you would be in the high 90's.

The issue is not the 200km+, the issue is that if you go to buy electric majority of people point you in direction of Leaf....I will keep my opinion of the Leaf to another discussion :P

if you go petrol/diesel you have loads of choice. The market doesn't need distance, it needs choice.

As a 31 year old living in Dublin, most of my driving peer group are living in rented accommodation with on-street, or apartment parking so do not have an option for home charging.

The 200/300km range is the difference between travelling to a charger every 3/4 days vs plugging in every day.

I've harked on many times that this is an area that needs a solution. The petrol/diesel car you refer to do less than 100km a day, but they also "charge" once a week.

I know a fair number of people who'd put €20 of petrol in whenever they go to the petrol station. A supermini like the i20 would give you around 230km for €20. At these numbers, a Zoe40 or Ioniq would almost be a like for like replacement.

oppenheimer1

liamog wrote: »

As a 31 year old living in Dublin, most of my driving peer group are living in rented accommodation with on-street, or apartment parking so do not have an option for home charging.

The 200/300km range is the difference between travelling to a charger every 3/4 days vs plugging in every day.

I've harked on many times that this is an area that needs a solution. The petrol/diesel car you refer to do less than 100km a day, but they also "charge" once a week.

I know a fair number of people who'd put €20 of petrol in whenever they go to the petrol station. A supermini like the i20 would give you around 230km for €20. At these numbers, a Zoe40 or Ioniq would almost be a like for like replacement.

Do they hang around for 30+mins (on a good day) at the petrol station when they put their €20 fuel in?

liamog

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Do they hang around for 30+mins (on a good day) at the petrol station when they put their €20 fuel in?

As a single person you'd need to be paid €136,000 before tax for 30 minutes of your time to be worth more than you're saving on fuel.

oppenheimer1

liamog wrote: »

As a single person you'd need to be paid €136,000 before tax for 30 minutes of your time to be worth more than you're saving on fuel.

Doesn't answer my question though does it? Does it take 30mins to put €20 petrol in a car?

liamog

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Doesn't answer my question though does it? Does it take 30mins to put €20 petrol in a car?

You should probably go do some research, you could probably take a stop watch to a petrol station and find the answer for yourself.

Orebro

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The thing is, what do you do when you urgently need to up and go on a long journey? What do you do on the 15 or so days of the year you need to go outside of range? A car is about more than the hum-drum regular commuting needs of people, its a tool that gives people the freedom to go whenever they want, where-ever they want. Even if a user never travels outside the home range with their car, the fact that such a short range exists is both a psychological and real limitation to the freedom a car provides.

We often hear in this forum about how the government needs to improve incentives - like dropping motor tax or allowing EV use in bus lanes. This is of course in addition to the huge incentives these cars and owners already enjoy like grants, tax rebates and excise free fuel. These advantages are the primary reason these cars are used by the owners here, not high minded notions of environmentalism, the smoother drive or any other spurious reason often given.

We never hear of the real changes that are required - the product itself needs to improve. In fact it needs to improve so much that people will choose the EV without tax incentives, rebates or excise breaks.

Depends on how far away they live I guess. Also consider in that case you only need to get there and not have to worry about the return journey range right away. Lots of other options too - like have a Go-car account so you have an ICE to hand 24/7/365 for emergencies, call a taxi even if it were necessary.

goz83

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The thing is, what do you do when you urgently need to up and go on a long journey? What do you do on the 15 or so days of the year you need to go outside of range? A car is about more than the hum-drum regular commuting needs of people, its a tool that gives people the freedom to go whenever they want, where-ever they want. Even if a user never travels outside the home range with their car, the fact that such a short range exists is both a psychological and real limitation to the freedom a car provides.

We often hear in this forum about how the government needs to improve incentives - like dropping motor tax or allowing EV use in bus lanes. This is of course in addition to the huge incentives these cars and owners already enjoy like grants, tax rebates and excise free fuel. These advantages are the primary reason these cars are used by the owners here, not high minded notions of environmentalism, the smoother drive or any other spurious reason often given.

We never hear of the real changes that are required - the product itself needs to improve. In fact it needs to improve so much that people will choose the EV without tax incentives, rebates or excise breaks.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Imagine you had to attend an emergency on the other side of the country at a moments notice. An EV owner, to make that journey, has to use the public charger network which can be both unreliable and congested at times, hire or borrow a car or take public transport.

I know you will scoff at this scenario but for some people it will play out at least once for them, particularly if they are originally from the country and have elderly parents. For most it won't - but its the psychological barrier that needs to be overcome, and I don't think it will until the EV can go coast to coast on a single charge.

A couple months ago, my Mother was visiting my sister. She (my mother) lives abroad. My sister lives about 10klm from me and the same from the airport. She called me the morning she was to drive our mother to the airport, asking if I could drive her instead. Luckily, I was available and made the journey to pick up my mother and take her to the airport where she barely caught her flight.

Turns out my sister was flat broke and didn't have enough petrol to get to the airport. She did have electricity I might add.

These "what if" scenarios can happen to anyone. We find a solution if we use our heads.

goz83

Orebro wrote: »

Depends on how far away they live I guess. Also consider in that case you only need to get there and not have to worry about the return journey range right away. Lots of other options too - like have a Go-car account so you have an ICE to hand 24/7/365 for emergencies, call a taxi even if it were necessary.

Exactly. I have 2 petrol stations inside of 1.5klm from my house. Between the drive to, filling up, paying and driving home, it will take 15 minutes and €20. That's half the time it takes if I plug into an FCP for 30 minutes.....but then I usually plug in at home. Takes 30 seconds and costs under €1.

Shefwedfan

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The thing is, what do you do when you urgently need to up and go on a long journey? What do you do on the 15 or so days of the year you need to go outside of range? A car is about more than the hum-drum regular commuting needs of people, its a tool that gives people the freedom to go whenever they want, where-ever they want. Even if a user never travels outside the home range with their car, the fact that such a short range exists is both a psychological and real limitation to the freedom a car provides.

What a pile of rubbish. No matter what type of car you have of course you can come up with some make believe story to mean you can't get to destination.

A car is a tool/machine. No more no less. If you think a car gives you freedom then you have bigger issues than electric over diesel/petrol

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

We often hear in this forum about how the government needs to improve incentives - like dropping motor tax or allowing EV use in bus lanes. This is of course in addition to the huge incentives these cars and owners already enjoy like grants, tax rebates and excise free fuel. These advantages are the primary reason these cars are used by the owners here, not high minded notions of environmentalism, the smoother drive or any other spurious reason often given.

We never hear of the real changes that are required - the product itself needs to improve. In fact it needs to improve so much that people will choose the EV without tax incentives, rebates or excise breaks.

If you read the forum majority of people said the bus lanes wouldn't work.

So what are the changes? please explain?

You say price but I already pointed out my eGolf was same price as diesel version except it actually has a better spec. You didn't answer that one.

Jobs OXO

goz83 wrote: »

A couple months ago, my Mother was visiting my sister. She (my mother) lives abroad. My sister lives about 10klm from me and the same from the airport. She called me the morning she was to drive our mother to the airport, asking if I could drive her instead. Luckily, I was available and made the journey to pick up my mother and take her to the airport where she barely caught her flight.

Turns out my sister was flat broke and didn't have enough petrol to get to the airport. She did have electricity I might add.

These "what if" scenarios can happen to anyone. We find a solution if we use our heads.

Ah seriously ! Using your broke deadbeat sister as an example takes the biscuit. Whoever is so disorganised not to have petrol or a credit card for petrol shouldn't be allowed to drive any vehicle. Likely someone like that would electrocute themselves with an EV anyway....

FFS keep it civil !

Sabre Man

goz83 wrote: »

Exactly. I have 2 petrol stations inside of 1.5klm from my house. Between the drive to, filling up, paying and driving home, it will take 15 minutes and €20. That's half the time it takes if I plug into an FCP for 30 minutes.....but then I usually plug in at home. Takes 30 seconds and costs under €1.

And if the petrol station is busy you may have to wait 5 minutes or more before a pump is free.

Orebro

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Ah seriously ! Using your broke deadbeat sister as an example takes the biscuit. Whoever is so disorganised not to have petrol or a credit card for petrol shouldn't be allowed to drive any vehicle. Likely someone like that would electrocute themselves with an EV anyway....

Says the lad who posts about getting his plums waxed in another forum - lol!

oppenheimer1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you read the forum majority of people said the bus lanes wouldn't work.

So what are the changes? please explain?

You say price but I already pointed out my eGolf was same price as diesel version except it actually has a better spec. You didn't answer that one.

I'm sorry but posters here are always banging on about wanting free motor tax, free parking too - as I'd they didn't get enough freebies at everyone else's expense. All under the guise of promoting EV use while ignoring the elephant in the room - that the product is not yet good enough for mass adoption.

EVs will take off in a big way when range issues and charging speed issues are sorted. The only reason that there are 2k EVs on the road is all down to tax. Tax the EV like an ICE ( running costs would still be 30%less than diesel) and no one would want one.

Calahonda52

liamog wrote: »

As a single person you'd need to be paid €136,000 before tax for 30 minutes of your time to be worth more than you're saving on fuel.

That is plain wrong unless the OP is forgoing the implied income stream.
Following your logic, a hooker charging 200 an hour would be forgoing about 1.8 million, allowing for travelling time and getting the car plugged in and unplugged

Sabre Man

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I'm sorry but posters here are always banging on about wanting free motor tax, free parking too - as I'd they didn't get enough freebies at everyone else's expense. All under the guise of promoting EV use while ignoring the elephant in the room - that the product is not yet good enough for mass adoption.

EVs will take off in a big way when range issues and charging speed issues are sorted. The only reason that there are 2k EVs on the road is all down to tax. Tax the EV like an ICE ( running costs would still be 30%less than diesel) and no one would want one.

I agree that part of the only reason that there are 2k EVs on the road is down to tax. The only reason there are so many diesels on the road is the ridiculously low road tax. Road tax should include a NOx component to encourage switching to EVs and petrol hybrids.

liamog

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I'm sorry but posters here are always banging on about wanting free motor tax, free parking too - as I'd they didn't get enough freebies at everyone else's expense. All under the guise of promoting EV use while ignoring the elephant in the room - that the product is not yet good enough for mass adoption.

EVs will take off in a big way when range issues and charging speed issues are sorted. The only reason that there are 2k EVs on the road is all down to tax. Tax the EV like an ICE ( running costs would still be 30%less than diesel) and no one would want one.

At this point your going round in circles to avoid the fact that for the average Irish motorist a Zoe40 or Ioniq is suitable for them and has advantages over an ICE compact / supermini.

oppenheimer1

liamog wrote: »

At this point your going round in circles to avoid the fact that for the average Irish motorist a Zoe40 or Ioniq is suitable for them and has advantages over an ICE compact / supermini.

The average Irish motorist doesn't buy new. I haven't seen the Zoe40 but the Ioniq EV the epitome of an econobox where everything out of eyeline had been value engineered to the nth degree. I'm not sure what they were trying to achieve with the "grill" on the front either and it seems Irish drivers only bought in white (I've yet to encounter one that's a different colour)

There's a lot of Irish people who buy Dacias , so they're not too bothered about looks.

liamog

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The average Irish motorist doesn't buy new. I haven't seen the Zoe40 but the Ioniq EV the epitome of an econobox where everything out of eyeline had been value engineered to the nth degree. I'm not sure what they were trying to achieve with the "grill" on the front either and it seems Irish drivers only bought in white (I've yet to encounter one that's a different colour)

More circles, you've gone from comparing econ diesels to specced up models that are EVs, to claiming that current EVs aren't suitable because 2017 models aren't available second hand.

bertie4evr

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The average Irish motorist doesn't buy new. I haven't seen the Zoe40 but the Ioniq EV the epitome of an econobox where everything out of eyeline had been value engineered to the nth degree. I'm not sure what they were trying to achieve with the "grill" on the front either and it seems Irish drivers only bought in white (I've yet to encounter one that's a different colour)

Agree 100% on the styling - why do all the available electrics look horrendous? The Leaf is far and away the ugliest, the Zoe is fine, but I'm sure the name and cute look would turn a lot of people off. Don't even mention that new Prius .

There's a lot of Irish people who buy Dacias , so they're not too bothered about looks.

Yeah, buy a Duster for €16,000 or a Leaf for €21,000 (But not that Leaf, it charges slower and has a smaller battery).