LGBTQIA+

uck51js9zml2yt

Why cant they just be referred to as people like the rest of us?
What's the agenda in the use of all the letters of the alphabet?

Wibbs

TheDriver wrote: »

If it includes nearly everything bar 100% heterosexual, then according to Kinsey, vast vast majority of us are included in this.

Kinsey while a pioneer, was also more than a bit lax with his methodology. His notion that sexuality was a continuum and fluid is more than a little bogus. It was a radical conclusion at the time and certainly helped create more acceptance for non heterosexuals, but more recent research and approaches have questioned this and found it wanting. Rather than the sliding scale Kinsey favoured(which is illogical on even the most scant of enquiry). In basic terms the majority of humans are heterosexual, while a minority are homosexual(with more complexity going on the latter group). There is some overlap, but it's nothing like the sliding scale and fluidity that Kinsey and those who quote him claim.

Wibbs

Rylee Quaint Row wrote: »

Why cant they just be referred to as people like the rest of us?

Because again in basic terms, they haven't been treated like "normal people" for most of human history. It makes perfect sense that a) such a group would suffer more from mental illnesses than the background population and b) that once they reached some threshold of acceptance that they would band together and self identify as a particular group within society.

Cantona's Collars

Rylee Quaint Row wrote: »

Why cant they just be referred to as people like the rest of us?
What's the agenda in the use of all the letters of the alphabet?

"We want to be classed as equal to straight people, yet we put these stupid labels on ourselves to stand out."

That mentality just annoys me,it's probably a few very vocal and noisy activists who come up with all these names.I'm not a big fan of Al Porter who is loud and proud to the point of tiresome about his sexuality but even he's tired of all this alphabet soup labelling now.
What next,another letter added on for gay/bi/not sure Travellers,Asians,Blacks,Dubs,Culchies?
I don't care,if your name is John or Jane doe and you are a different sexuality than straight then I'll just call you John or Jane,keep your labels for somebody who cares.

Captain Obvious

Does the + mean everyone else? Does that not marganilise people who fall within it? It's like saying they aren't really worth a letter and will just be grouped in together.

Cantona's Collars

Wibbs wrote: »

Because again in basic terms, they haven't been treated like "normal people" for most of human history. It makes perfect sense that a) such a group would suffer more from mental illnesses than the background population and b) that once they reached some threshold of acceptance that they would band together and self identify as a particular group within society.

And now that they are ( in normal,civilised societies) they want to be treated differently, even on Channel 4's weekend of Gay programming, one contributed was moaning that it's boring these days as people just consider gay people as just people,the character is gone from his lifestyle and "there's no sense of danger". Welcome to normal,everyday humdrum life my good Sir, would you like a letter to go after your name to make you feel special? Get up the yard.

Grayson

Wibbs wrote: »

Depends on the combat involved. When it comes down to it in infantry type combat, basically you want a very fit man in his twenties, sexuality or skin colour unimportant.

Say that to the Israelis and watch the women kick your ass

Cantona's Collars

Grayson wrote: »

Say that to the Israelis and watch the women kick your ass

In fairness, they have some fine wimmins in their army.
Maybe that's what the IA+ stands for.

Wibbs

zerks wrote: »

And now that they are ( in normal,civilised societies) they want to be treated differently, even on Channel 4's weekend of Gay programming, one contributed was moaning that it's boring these days as people just consider gay people as just people,the character is gone from his lifestyle and "there's no sense of danger". Welcome to normal,everyday humdrum life my good Sir, would you like a letter to go after your name to make you feel special? Get up the yard.

Consider the source; the media and media types. They're a source that's almost guaranteed to be whinging/controversial because it keeps them in the public eye. You see that with heterosexual notice boxes in the media too and we wouldn't judge heterosexuals by those muppets would we?

Grayson wrote: »

Say that to the Israelis and watch the women kick your ass

Yeah, and no. There are many examples of women in combat being bloody useful. EG Soviet snipers in WW2, but often they were as much a PR stunt too. The plain fact is when the poo hits the fan in infantry combat the demographic of young fit men will in the vast majority of cases annihilate the opposition of any other demographic.

Grayson

zerks wrote: »

"We want to be classed as equal to straight people, yet we put these stupid labels on ourselves to stand out."

That mentality just annoys me,it's probably a few very vocal and noisy activists who come up with all these names.I'm not a big fan of Al Porter who is loud and proud to the point of tiresome about his sexuality but even he's tired of all this alphabet soup labelling now.
What next,another letter added on for gay/bi/not sure Travellers,Asians,Blacks,Dubs,Culchies?
I don't care,if your name is John or Jane doe and you are a different sexuality than straight then I'll just call you John or Jane,keep your labels for somebody who cares.

It's because of GLBT movements that you feel that way. Just over 20 years ago people could still be arrested because they had gay sex in Ireland. It's very recent that they can get married. There was massive discrimination against them. There's still discrimination against them in some quarters (although it's pretty rare).

In the new place I'm working a hungarian guy said that he'd never been to a pride march. He said that if he went to one his family and friends would ask questions and there's always a chance some far right nutjob would beat him up. He's straight and married btw.

In Ireland we're lucky that we don't have those attitudes any more. It may be that the true sign that a movement has made an impact is when people don't care.

Still the marches and stuff are important to remember what it was like and celebrate what it is now.

diomed

Is everyone else a CDEFHJKMNOPRSUVWXYZ ?

uck51js9zml2yt

diomed wrote: »

Is everyone else a CDEFHJKMNOPRSUVWXYZ ?

you forgot "-"

But seriously. They wanted equality, they got it and now they want to be seen as different. I'm sorry but they alphabet soupers need to grow up and get on with life like the rest of us.
Its the way you show your the same, by living life like the rest of society

Annasopra

diomed wrote: »

Is everyone else a CDEFHJKMNOPRSUVWXYZ ?

HWHMBSCBGOBSSAEEDN

Annasopra

Rylee Quaint Row wrote: »

you forgot "-"

But seriously. They wanted equality, they got it and now they want to be seen as different. I'm sorry but they alphabet soupers need to grow up and get on with life like the rest of us.
Its the way you show your the same, by living life like the rest of society

Equality isnt about being the same. I am a gay man. I am different. That does not mean I am not equal.

Cantona's Collars

Grayson wrote: »

It's because of GLBT movements that you feel that way. Just over 20 years ago people could still be arrested because they had gay sex in Ireland. It's very recent that they can get married. There was massive discrimination against them. There's still discrimination against them in some quarters (although it's pretty rare).

In the new place I'm working a hungarian guy said that he'd never been to a pride march. He said that if he went to one his family and friends would ask questions and there's always a chance some far right nutjob would beat him up. He's straight and married btw.

In Ireland we're lucky that we don't have those attitudes any more. It may be that the true sign that a movement has made an impact is when people don't care.

Still the marches and stuff are important to remember what it was like and celebrate what it is now.

Thankfully we are more tolerant than Eastern Europe/Russia. People here don't care for labels so much.
It seems like everything has to have a label and representative group, not just lgbt. I think for some it's just a means of fulfilling their sense of self importance and get themselves in the public eye.

gizmo81

George Weinberg on homophobia

“I coined the word homophobia to mean it was a phobia about homosexuals,” Dr. Weinberg told Gregory M. Herek, a professor of psychology at the University of California, Davis, in 1998. “It was a fear of homosexuals which seemed to be associated with a fear of contagion, a fear of reducing the things one fought for — home and family. It was a religious fear, and it had led to great brutality, as fear always does.”

Heterosexism:

Heterosexism is a system of attitudes, bias, and discrimination in favor of opposite-sex sexuality and relationships. It can include the presumption that other people are heterosexual or that opposite-sex attractions and relationships are the only norm and therefore superior.

Heteronormativity: (Warner, Rubin, Rich)

Heteronormativity is the belief that people fall into distinct and complementary genders (male and female) with natural roles in life. It assumes that heterosexuality is the only sexual orientation or only norm, and that sexual and marital relations are most (or only) fitting between people of opposite sexes. A "heteronormative" view therefore involves alignment of biological sex, sexuality, gender identity and gender roles. Heteronormativity is often linked to heterosexism and homophobia.

Lisa Duggan Homonormativity:

"A politics that does not contest dominant heteronormative assumptions and institutions, but upholds and sustains them, while promising the possibility of a demobilized gay constituency and a privatized, depoliticized gay culture anchored in domesticity and consumption" )

uck51js9zml2yt

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Equality isnt about being the same. I am a gay man. I am different. That does not mean I am not equal.

so what! Your a human being like the rest of us. You wanted the same rights as the rest of society. You wanted marriage, adoption etc. You got it now get on with life like the rest of society and stop telling us how different you are.

Annasopra

Rylee Quaint Row wrote: »

so what! Your a human being like the rest of us. You wanted the same rights as the rest of society. You wanted marriage, adoption etc. You got it now get on with life like the rest of society and stop telling us how different you are.

As I just said. Equality is not sameness.

Cantona's Collars

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Equality isnt about being the same. I am a gay man. I am different. That does not mean I am not equal.

Do you piss standing up,go to work, pay taxes,buy groceries,watch TV,walk,run,cycle,drive, take the bus?
You aren't different, you are still a man,attracted to other men but still a man.You are as equal as I am to other men no more,no less.We all die in the end which is a great equaliser.

bodice ripper

Rylee Quaint Row wrote:

But seriously. They wanted equality, they got it and now they want to be seen as different. I'm sorry but they alphabet soupers need to grow up and get on with life like the rest of us. Its the way you show your the same, by living life like the rest of society

You are doing it too.

pragmatic1

I don't think that T belongs with the rest. LGBA are all sexual preferences. Transexuality and intersex is a different thing.

Sonics2k

zerks wrote: »

Do you piss standing up,go to work, pay taxes,buy groceries,watch TV,walk,run,cycle,drive, take the bus?
You aren't different, you are still a man,attracted to other men but still a man.You are as equal as I am to other men no more,no less.We all die in the end which is a great equaliser.

I'm going to essentially copy+paste a post from the LGBT forum I posted recently about the Pride Parade, which I think translates pretty well here too

Son of a lesbian couple and all that jazz.

I remember when I was about 17 or so (15 years ago), I was chatting about the Pride Parade coming up with my mother and why I thought it was a waste of time to have it now.

See, my thinking at the time was that straight or gay makes no difference, and Pride was just a pointless tradition that we still do because we'd done it for so long. I despise traditions like that, so that was my thinking. In my world, in my mind and existence, I didn't see a difference between being gay or straight. It had no baring on what I thought of you.

My mother made a point, that at the time I didn't really get, but many years later I think I do.

The Pride Parade is not, and has never about flaunting your sexuality (though I admit, some do love their leather chaps in a parade), it was never about anything other than showing yourself for who you are.

It was never about sex or sexuality. It's always been about who we love. At it's core, the Pride Parade is about showing that you are not afraid to say you love someone, despite what the 'norm' of society says.

Ireland is a great country for the LGBT community, and there is no real denying that. However, we still live in a society were a teacher can be dismissed based on who they love.

Where 'fag' is still used as a disparaging and horrible word against a man who simply loves another man, and not an annoying douchebag on a Harley Davidson.

Pride Parades have always been about nothing more than being proud of who you love, and remembering the history and pain inflicted on the LGBT community.

Essentially this is what comes down to being part of the LGBT community for many, but not all people.

Equal, but not entirely treated the same. The same, but different.

It's like a sub-culture really.

Falcon L

I'm a member of the NOMFB community. The more people that join my community, the less we'll need acronyms to show how special we are. My community couldn't give a flying arsebiscuit what the sexuality, religion, politics, mode of transport, colour, nationality, etcetera, other people have. I'll get along with most people, some I will never take to. Just don't ram your beliefs down my throat and we'll get along just fine.

So, join the None Of My Fucking Business community today. You know it's right.

ger vallely

glenfieldman wrote: »

Its a relevant discussion,
But if i called a gay guy a queer id be called a homophobic, but queer is part of their acronym, is that not a bit of a double standard ?

It's not an acronym though. I'm just awake and not that terribly clever at all to be able to tell you the correct word for it but it's not an acronym. An acronym is a pronounceable word made up from the first letters of the words involved. LGBTQIA+ is not pronounceable. Back to sleep now for me.

pauliebdub

Most people refer to it as LGBT, only hardliners or people with a separate agenda add other words. Much better than using the word queer which I hate and regard as a term of abuse.

Grayson

zerks wrote: »

Thankfully we are more tolerant than Eastern Europe/Russia. People here don't care for labels so much.
It seems like everything has to have a label and representative group, not just lgbt. I think for some it's just a means of fulfilling their sense of self importance and get themselves in the public eye.

Except the marriage referendum was just a couple of years ago. It's not ancient history. It's very recent. And homophobia still exists in Ireland. Like I said it's pretty rare but it exists. Trans phobia is more common.

The thing is you might be fed up hearing from them but there is still a point to these groups.

gizmo81

Falcon L wrote: »

I'm a member of the NOMFB community. The more people that join my community, the less we'll need acronyms to show how special we are. My community couldn't give a flying arsebiscuit what the sexuality, religion, politics, mode of transport, colour, nationality, etcetera, other people have. I'll get along with most people, some I will never take to. Just don't ram your beliefs down my throat and we'll get along just fine.

So, join the None Of My Fucking Business community today. You know it's right.

It's not gay people starting thread after thread on After Hours obsessing over LGBTQ+

Gay people on boards.ie get on with our lives till we are attacked for just existing, but to defend ourselves we are ramming our beliefs?

Falcon L

gizmo81 wrote: »

It's not gay people starting thread after thread on After Hours obsessing over LGBTQ+

Gay people on boards.ie get on with our lives till we are attacked for just existing, but to defend ourselves we are ramming our beliefs?

You won't have to ram your beliefs down my throat, because I won't be attacking you. If you still choose to ram your beliefs down my throat, well, you'll be one of the ones I won't take to. Simple, no?

Sonics2k

Falcon L wrote: »

I'm a member of the NOMFB community. The more people that join my community, the less we'll need acronyms to show how special we are. My community couldn't give a flying arsebiscuit what the sexuality, religion, politics, mode of transport, colour, nationality, etcetera, other people have. I'll get along with most people, some I will never take to. Just don't ram your beliefs down my throat and we'll get along just fine.

So, join the None Of My Fucking Business community today. You know it's right.

I mean, as mentioned above, these threads are rarely if ever started by a member of the LGBT community.

The cruel irony of your post is bolded, look back on this thread and look at the comments people have made about people in the LGBT community and the people who love them.

We live in a country where one specific religion had free-run of the law for decades, and for decades members of the LGBT said "don't ram your beliefs down my throat and we'll get along just fine.".

MRnotlob606

Sonics2k wrote: »

I mean really, does it actually matter or impact your life in any way?

No? I didn't think so.

Yes it affects us in every way. There is no consensus what is acceptable and what is not. Its becoming a very slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? will the LGTBQI+ start accepting furries? transabled? zoophiles ? all in the name of tolerance. I just don't think you should be allowed identify what you want just because what you are doing doesn't harm people. There are moral and ethical implications for society.

MRnotlob606

gizmo81 wrote: »

It's not gay people starting thread after thread on After Hours obsessing over LGBTQ+

Gay people on boards.ie get on with our lives till we are attacked for just existing, but to defend ourselves we are ramming our beliefs?

Hypberbole much? I don't see gay people being attacked just for existing.

gizmo81

Falcon L wrote: »

You won't have to ram your beliefs down my throat, because I won't be attacking you. If you still choose to ram your beliefs down my throat, well, you'll be one of the ones I won't take to. Simple, no?

I note the thanks your post has gotten but what exactly is 'ram your beliefs down my throat' . .

Is it a gay couple appearing in a tv advert?
Is it commemorating and celebrating Pride?
Is it holding a memorial for The Pink Triangle, The AIDS Epidemic?
Is it a gay character on a soap?
Is it a transgender person walking down the street?
Is it choosing how to identify, be it as gay, queer?
Is it that Queer Theory is a field of study in Universities?
Is it that I dare to breath?

What are my beliefs? What are these universal beliefs of the LGBTQ+ Community?

MRnotlob606

We need to protect the transabled, zoophile etc. They deserve equal rights

gizmo81

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

Yes it affects us in every way. There is no consensus what is acceptable and what is not. Its becoming a very slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? will the LGTBQI+ start accepting furries? transabled? zoophiles ? all in the name of tolerance. I just don't think you should be allowed identify what you want just because what you are doing doesn't harm people. There are moral and ethical implications for society.

What are the moral and ethical implications in LGBTQ+ people identifying as such?

SterlingArcher

gizmo81 wrote: »

It's not gay people starting thread after thread on After Hours obsessing over LGBTQ+

Gay people on boards.ie get on with our lives till we are attacked for just existing, but to defend ourselves we are ramming our beliefs?

List all the threads after threads in after hours that you dramatically speak of. Where it's we gays are getting attacked.

Attacked? So gay people are now getting attacked on boards.ie for just existing?? Funny I thought the discussion was this need for additional letters on the LGBT.

Are you implying that nobody who isn't gay is allowed discuss LGBTandthensomemore or any related discussions outside your approved forum? Don't answer that. I'm not really interested what a gay person has to say outside of "their" space dedicated forum. That irony there is probably going to be lost on you.

Annasopra

SterlingArcher wrote: »

I'm not really interested what a gay person has to say outside of "their" space dedicated forum.

Well then why are you on this thread responding at all?

MRnotlob606

gizmo81 wrote: »

What are the moral and ethical implications in LGBTQ+ people identifying as such?

You didn't get my argument. I was saying if the list continues get larger then where do you draw the line? What is acceptable and what is not? these are the moral and ethical considerations.

goz83

The "+" stands for aliens.

Annasopra

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

You didn't get my argument. I was saying if the list continues get larger then where do you draw the line? What is acceptable and what is not? these are the moral and ethical considerations.

The argument where you tried to paint us as mentally ill bestiality supporters. Haha were we supposed to take that seriously?

Ken.

Mod-SterlingArcher do not post in this thread again.

MRnotlob606

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The argument where you tried to paint us as mentally ill bestiality supporters. Haha were we supposed to take that seriously?

I did not say that. It went over your head. I stated if the list continues the transabled and zoophiles will eventually be included, in the name of diversity and inclusion. May seem outrageous now, but beastiality is legal in Canada. There are already animal brothels in Denmark!. If you cannot tell me where the line is drawn then you'll see the problem. People are afraid to draw a line with the fear of being prescribed a bigot.

SterlingArcher

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Well then why are you on this thread responding at all?

Jesus christ joey I even mentioned the irony. Dear god face palm yourself. Seriously do it now.

gizmo81

SterlingArcher wrote: »

List all the threads after threads in after hours that you dramatically speak of. Where it's we gays are getting attacked.

Obsessed isn't the word.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057743600&page=11

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103649143

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103623588

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103540022

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103518226

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103371480

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=101798636

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100896523

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100838596

Just in the last few months.

Annasopra

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I did not say that. It went over your head. I stated if the list continues the transabled and zoophiles will eventually be included, in the name of diversity and inclusion. May say outrageous now, but Beastiality is legal in Canada. There are already animal brothels in Denmark!.

And?

gizmo81

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I did not say that. It went over your head. I stated if the list continues the transabled and zoophiles will eventually be included, in the name of diversity and inclusion. May say outrageous now, but Beastiality is legal in Canada. There are already animal brothels in Denmark!. If you cannot tell me where the line is drawn then you'll see the problem.

You are trying to conflate an illegal act (Zoophilia) with LGBTQ+ which says more about you than anyone else.

LEIN

Conspectus wrote: »

Mod-SterlingArcher do not post in this thread again.

SterlingArcher wrote: »

Jesus christ joey I even mentioned the irony. Dear god face palm yourself. Seriously do it now.

Please take note of previous Mod request.

Thank you.

MRnotlob606

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

And?

and do you have a constructive riposte rather than a sarcastic "and"?

Falcon L

Sonics2k wrote: »

I mean, as mentioned above, these threads are rarely if ever started by a member of the LGBT community.

The cruel irony of your post is bolded, look back on this thread and look at the comments people have made about people in the LGBT community and the people who love them.

We live in a country where one specific religion had free-run of the law for decades, and for decades members of the LGBT said "don't ram your beliefs down my throat and we'll get along just fine.".

Did you miss the part where I included religion?

bingocat

I'm gay and in my personal case the whole LGBTetc group annoys me. I'm gay it doesnt mean I want to be part of some group or classification. I'm still the same. Pride marches etc dont represent me.

But thats just my opinion.

Falcon L

gizmo81 wrote: »

I note the thanks your post has gotten but what exactly is 'ram your beliefs down my throat' . .

Is it a gay couple appearing in a tv advert?
Is it commemorating and celebrating Pride?
Is it holding a memorial for The Pink Triangle, The AIDS Epidemic?
Is it a gay character on a soap?
Is it a transgender person walking down the street?
Is it choosing how to identify, be it as gay, queer?
Is it that Queer Theory is a field of study in Universities?
Is it that I dare to breath?

What are my beliefs? What are these universal beliefs of the LGBTQ+ Community?

Well, as I see all of the above as fitting into the NOMFB belief, I'd say that it's not my concern. I'll simplify for you. If you're hissing and spitting in my face about your beliefs (whatever they may be) you're ramming them down my throat. If you're going about your life, just as I am, then NOMFB. Understand now? If you're outraged that I'm not outraged, then you've got problems that I'm not qualified to address.