Would you accept your child if they became religious?

smacl

hinault wrote: »

Atheism via the barrel of a gun didn't work earlier, smacl.

Maybe you can answer? Why would a parent attempt to deny a benefit to their child/children?

Are you a parent?

Parent of two. As a parent I would not deny any benefit to either of my children, nor would I knowingly expose them to be anything that would be detrimental to them. Religious indoctrination, whether Catholicism, Islam or Scientology, clearly falls into the latter category, hence both have been raised as atheists.

King Mob

hinault wrote: »

Nice try.

I don't know what any of those belief systems hold.

However the OP specifically mentions Christian/Catholic beliefs/practices, and with holding of accepting their children's adherence to those beliefs.

So? How does that invalidate any of my points or questions.

Other religions offer benefits, don't they?
Other religions offer their own indisputable proof, don't they?

So why would you deny your children those benefits?
Do you not believe their proof?

.......

This post has been deleted.

hinault

King Mob wrote:

Other religions offer benefits, don't they?
Other religions offer their own indisputable proof, don't they?

What benefits?
What indisputable proof?

You appear to know what these other religions are about. Provide details of benefits and proof.

looksee

Mod: Hinault, you have made various assertions without making the slightest attempt to show evidence for their validity, in fact you have refused to do so. If that is the limit of your argument please do not state it again or you will be carded for soapboxing. The conversation can continue if you are willing to contribute meaningfully to it.

hinault

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The benefit that you would deny to your child, if you are a parent.

You and I discussed this over 2 hours ago.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=104202627

Are you a parent?

Mod: taking the dicussion round in circles also counts as soapboxing

King Mob

hinault wrote: »

What benefits?
What indisputable proof?

You appear to know what these other religions are about. Provide details of benefits and proof.

Well... you first since you're the one who's claiming your religion has those things.

What benefit do you have for your flavour of religion?
What proof do you have?

hinault

King Mob wrote: »

Well... you first since you're the one who's claiming your religion has those things.

What benefit do you have for your flavour of religion?
What proof do you have?

You asked me discuss other religions in your previous message.

You said that there were benefits in these other religions. Provide details of these benefits in other religions.

nozzferrahhtoo

hinault wrote: »

Atheism via the barrel of a gun didn't work earlier, smacl.

Nope. It has never been tried. Social and political dogma to which religion was seen as a competitor has been delivery at the end of a gun sure. Atheism has not. If you need any further education on that I can avoid derailing this thread and link you to a conversation I had with The_Valeyard where I schooled him quite patiently on the subject.

hinault wrote: »

Maybe you can answer? Why would a parent attempt to deny a benefit to their child/children?

I already did answer this one though. You not liking, and then ignoring entirely, that answer does not make it not there. The answer is that until you can show it IS a "benefit" then said parent has no reason to think they are "denying" them anything.

So can you show that it is a benefit? I mean an overall benefit, not that it has A benefit. I mean when you (can you?) list all the benefits you think it has, and acknowledge all the detriments, can you show that belief in a particular god and/or religion affords a net benefit to people in general?

hinault wrote: »

You said that there were benefits in these other religions. Provide details of these benefits in other religions.

So you ignored people asking you this very question, and openly explained you refuse to answer it, but now you want to demand another user subsequently answers the same thing you refused to?

Bit rich, doncha think?

YOU came here to claim that religion or god belief is a benefit and that we are "denying" children that. Have you any substantiation AT ALL of this alleged benefit?

King Mob

hinault wrote: »

You asked me discuss other religions in your previous message.

You said that there were benefits in these other religions. Provide details of these benefits in other religions.

I bring them up to be illustrative of your hypocrisy.
I don't believe those religions have any benefits. However like you, they claim they do.
However when these are pointed to, you don't just accept the existence of those benefits yet you expect everyone to believe yours.

So why should we believe that your religion has any benefit when you refuse to explain it?
why do you not believe in the benefit of other religions? Are those claims all false?

looksee

Mod: Hinault has been banned for one day for persisting with soapboxing.

feargale

"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." - Thomas Jefferson.

I would like to ask the A&A people here who had religious parents ( the majority, I would think ) :
1. How did your parents react when they learned that you were non-religious? Did they accept or reject you?
2. How would you like them to have reacted?

looksee

My mother was a bit religious, my dad was not religious at all. They didn't comment one way or the other when I was religious, I am not sure that the subject ever came up after I faded away. Though by that time my dad was dead and my mother had aphasia as a result of a stroke. I am pretty sure it would not have been of any consequence to them anyway.

Doctor DooM

Mother is vaguely not-really-catholic, Father is an affirmed atheist.

Neither seem really pushed about my religion or lack thereof. Which is exactly how I like it.

smacl

Both parents atheist, never was any religion in the house. Problem came with a few other Catholic friends parents who on finding out I was an atheist banned their kids from playing with me, as though atheism might be infectious*. Also remember getting called a pagan in the 70s, which was a bit odd. I guess the word atheist didn't really come into common usage in this country until quite a bit later.

(* turned out it was )

feargale

Dammit. Is there no A/A here who had conventionally religious parents?

irishman86

freshpopcorn wrote: »

As with a good amount of Atheist/Agnostic parents sometimes they decide to opt their child out of Religion in school and say we let them decide when their older and they'll accept their choice.
I know a few people who has done this and now when their children are in their late teens/early twenties they've decided to become Religious. Going to mass/getting involved with Youth 2000/wanting to get baptised/etc.
This has not gone well with their parents and they'd have always said they were open to letting them choose.
Would you accept your child if they became religious?

What a arrogant question. Didnt you decide your path, why on earth do you think you should also decide theirs. (Not you, more those who think so)
Some of the posts here, where you think you are more intelligent because you have no faith is beyond hilarious
Fair play to the guys that let there kids and live without judgement, the rest of you Im sure are very very special

oldrnwisr

feargale wrote: »

I would like to ask the A&A people here who had religious parents ( the majority, I would think ) :
1. How did your parents react when they learned that you were non-religious? Did they accept or reject you?
2. How would you like them to have reacted?

My parents were both Catholic. My dad was fairly devout and traditional when it came to traditional. My mother is still functionally Catholic but not exactly religious. It's more for a sense of community than a religious experience.

When I finally called myself an atheist (although I identified as non-religious before that) my mother was fine, she said it was my decision. My dad's reaction was a bit more difficult and our relationship was strained for a while, at least when it came to Sunday, but eventually he came to terms with it.

How would I like them to have reacted? Well, I'd have preferred an honest discussion about the issue, dealing with the problems and contradictions in the truth claims of Christianity. However, as I've since learned holds true for a lot of religious, there are people who just don't want to have their religious beliefs examined in case they don't like the answer they come up with.

smacl

irishman86 wrote: »

Didnt you decide your path, why on earth do you think you should also decide theirs.

Probably different these days, but certainly when I grew up, for most kids choice didn't come into it. You went to church on a Sunday, you went to school and got battered by the brothers or nuns, and you kept your moth shut. These days it seems to be more go to church a few times a year, call yourself a Catholic if anyone asks, and get a decent payout at communions and confirmations.

branie2

If I was an atheist, and married with kids, I'd accept they were religious

irishman86

smacl wrote: »

Probably different these days, but certainly when I grew up, for most kids choice didn't come into it. You went to church on a Sunday, you went to school and got battered by the brothers or nuns, and you kept your moth shut. These days it seems to be more go to church a few times a year, call yourself a Catholic if anyone asks, and get a decent payout at communions and confirmations.

Ireland is no way similar to back in the day though. Religion like you said is not a main factor in 99% of peoples life. Your view of the church from say the 70s(A guess) is not the current view. I dont even go to church but if my girleen wanted to practice a religion its up to her, I wont think Im better than her or any other church goer

the_syco

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I know a few people who has done this and now when their children are in their late teens/early twenties they've decided to become Religious. Going to mass/getting involved with Youth 2000/wanting to get baptised/etc.

Is the person whose bones they want to jump said religion?

Samaris

I certainly wouldn't -not- accept them! They'd still be my son or daughter. If they find solace in religion, that's fine, it's their choice and I wouldn't be ramming my opinions on religion down their throats.

Pherekydes

feargale wrote: »

I would like to ask the A&A people here who had religious parents ( the majority, I would think ) :
1. How did your parents react when they learned that you were non-religious? Did they accept or reject you?
2. How would you like them to have reacted?

My parents were devoutly catholic. They are gone a long time (22 and 14 years), so they never learned of my atheism, or their grandchildren's.

Had they lived long enough I would have hoped that would have grown to see the church for what it is. That and the subsequent fakeness of all religions.

the_syco

Pherekydes wrote: »

Had they lived long enough I would have hoped that would have grown to see the church for what it is. That and the subsequent fakeness of all religions.

My granddad was a devote christain, who went out of his way to help the local church, help the people in the local church, etc. Seeing how they treated him (or should I say, completely ignored him when he was housebound) turned my parents and all of my aunts and uncles from that side of the family off the catholic church.

Hotblack Desiato

the_syco wrote: »

My granddad was a devote christain, who went out of his way to help the local church, help the people in the local church, etc. Seeing how they treated him (or should I say, completely ignored him when he was housebound) turned my parents and all of my aunts and uncles from that side of the family off the catholic church.

If he was asset-rich with no dependants they'd have been all over him like a rash.

nozzferrahhtoo

feargale wrote: »

Dammit. Is there no A/A here who had conventionally religious parents?

Hah none here either I am afraid. My childhood experience of religion came from my parents not being religious but sending us to sunday mass (without going themselves) purely out of social habit. And of course my primary school teacher, footballer Frankie Byrne, who's flapping attempts to read us passages of the Bible and fit religion into nature walks were so poor that I grew up considering it "story time" and got quite close to 12 years old before I suddenly realized "Hang on..... people are meant to BELIEVE this stuff????"

uck51js9zml2yt

Everyone is looking for proof.

Where is the proof God doesn't exist?

nozzferrahhtoo

Aubrielle Old Tarp wrote: »

Everyone is looking for proof.

I am not sure I have met "everyone" but I know for one I do not ask theists for "proof". I think that is too lofty a goal entirely to request of them.

No, when I am in such a discussion I sit down with them and say "Ok I think we are agreed we both exist in a universe and we both want to know the explanation for this state of affairs. Have you ANY arguments, evidence, data or reasoning you can offer me that lends any credence or substantiation to the idea that the explanation....... whatever it turns out to be........... involves the actions of a non-human intentional and intelligent agency?".

That is not "proof" but invariably the answer is no..... they got nuttin.

smacl

irishman86 wrote: »

Ireland is no way similar to back in the day though. Religion like you said is not a main factor in 99% of peoples life. Your view of the church from say the 70s(A guess) is not the current view. I dont even go to church but if my girleen wanted to practice a religion its up to her, I wont think Im better than her or any other church goer

70s and 80s, but pretty much agree. As per my previous post, my older girl did take up a religion for a bit, decided it wasn't for her and moved on. I'd no issue with it and have no issue with anyone practising whatever religion they want. Only time I take issue is when someone tries to push their religion on me or my family, which realistically only really happens these days within the school system. Individual Catholics and most other religious types don't push religion outside of their own immediate families if even then, and there are practically no nuns, brothers and very few priests knocking about these days. I would draw the line with the kids joining a nastier cult such as Scientology.