Is AH homophobic and transphobic?

Mr.Frame

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I don't believe that those spouting homophobic or transphobic nonsense will change their posting style because of a line in a charter but I understand the points raised and I've raised this with the AH mods and will update here once I get some feedback from them.

Thats good to hear, thank you.

Zaph

gizmo81 wrote: »

I don't think it's fair that the LGBT community cannot discuss homophobia within our online community, Believe me if I wanted to have a go I would have gone hard!

Discussing homophobia is one thing. Posting in one forum having a go at another forum is not, and has never been acceptable on Boards, and that's basically what you were doing. I'm afraid that the mod was left with no choice but to close the thread due to the direction it had taken and was continuing to go.

gizmo81 wrote: »

If I was to hazard a guess I'd imagine the mods feel this makes them and their forum relevant, what other reason is there for not putting a ban on homophobic and transphobic abuse.

OK, I get that this is an issue that you feel strongly about, but abusing the mods isn't going to win over anybody to your point of view. AH is one of the toughest forums on the site to mod and the mods put in a bloody huge amount of work to keep it running as smoothly as it does. No abuse, no matter what it is, is acceptable on Boards. That there isn't a specific ban on homophobic or transphobic abuse in the AH charter is simply because nobody added it when it was written and nobody has thought to bring it up until you have just now. However on the back of your suggestion the AH mods have already started a discussion to clean up the charter and make it simpler and more relevant. In the meantime the standard Boards Terms of Use apply to all forums, and this includes the following:

You agree, through use of this service, NOT to use boards.ie to:

* treat others with disrespect
* defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the rights
(such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others
* post any abusive, harmful, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, indecent, profane, inappropriate, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable Material, except where the content is appropriate to the content of the forum and you have been granted specific permission to do so and subject to our guidelines on said content

Jobs OXO wrote: »

Sure why have a charter at all if that's your stance????

Why is all feedback (no Mayer how valid) always pushed back upon in favour of the status quo???

I think you're missing KERSPLAT!'s point there. If someone is going to post abuse, of any kind, having it in the charter isn't going to deter them. However having a specific article in the charter would make it more difficult for them to claim they didn't know it was against the rules if they are subsequently sanctioned for their post. And as regards the status quo, please see my point above regarding the charter review that is already underway in AH.

gizmo81

Zaph wrote: »

Discussing homophobia is one thing. Posting in one forum having a go at another forum is not, and has never been acceptable on Boards, and that's basically what you were doing. I'm afraid that the mod was left with no choice but to close the thread due to the direction it had taken and was continuing to go.



OK, I get that this is an issue that you feel strongly about, but abusing the mods isn't going to win over anybody to your point of view. AH is one of the toughest forums on the site to mod and the mods put in a bloody huge amount of work to keep it running as smoothly as it does. No abuse, no matter what it is, is acceptable on Boards. That there isn't a specific ban on homophobic or transphobic abuse in the AH charter is simply because nobody added it when it was written and nobody has thought to bring it up until you have just now. However on the back of your suggestion the AH mods have already started a discussion to clean up the charter and make it simpler and more relevant. In the meantime the standard Boards Terms of Use apply to all forums, and this includes the following:






I think you're missing KERSPLAT!'s point there. If someone is going to post abuse, of any kind, having it in the charter isn't going to deter them. However having a specific article in the charter would make it more difficult for them to claim they didn't know it was against the rules if they are subsequently sanctioned for their post. And as regards the status quo, please see my point above regarding the charter review that is already underway in AH.

I'm not sorry I posted that thread. It galvanised the community. We don't need to take homophobic or transphobic in real life and neither do we have to take online. We must be free to identify and defend ourselves from homo/transphobic abuse.

I didn't abuse the mods, I suggested a reason for their lack of action. I got numerous slaps across the wrists when I joined boards. and in the scheme of what is allowed on AH, Misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, I could go on. There is a reason that forum is like that and others aren't.

Having hate crime law isn't going to stop 100% of hate crime but it acts as a deterrent.

Finally, by excluding homophobia and transphobia boards.ie is part of the systemic bias LGBTQ+ people have to face. Boards.ie has created a hierarchy of discrimination and guess what LGBTQ+ people are invisible.

You can come for me all you want. You can infract or ban me. I don't care. I have done the right thing.

"Rights are only won by those who make their voices heard". Harvey Milk

"Hope will never be silent". Harvey Milk

Annasopra

Gizmo

The mods in the lgbt forum dont really agree with your expectation of our role to be lobbying. We are moderators. Thats it.

You can discuss the issue generically in the lgbt forum but if you want to just give about After Hours there then as Zaph said forget about it.

.......

This post has been deleted.

gizmo81

I'm really sick to the back teeth of being charged with all sorts in my pursuit of blocking discrimination on boards. I cannot fathom why this is such a problem for you. You are all being completely sensitive when any valid criticism is brought up.

Focus on the problem not me. You are LGBTQ+ mods and you are completely depoliticised.

Please tell me where i was 'giving out'?

I joined boards.ie in February and there must have been 20 upward threads regarding gender and sexuality but not in the LGBTQ Forum.

Why are all these straight people obsessing over gender and sexuality?

It's like they view it like the Zombies in the walking dead and us queers are coming to attack them in their beds.

Is this new or has this obsession been on boards a long time?

I'm honestly baffled by it. is this representative of wider society or just online?

Yeh I'm not here long so I will probably give up (edit: responding to those types of posts) after another few months.

Though I am known for my perseverance lol

I just find it all a bit mad tbh.

Like I'm not offended by it I think.

You accused me of bitching which I challenged you on via PM and you updated your post Hoey

Mod
Can we please not go down the route of this thread giving out about AH.

Thanks for your feedback JoeytheParrot

Apologies I didn't want to attack AH, more so 9 pages into the 20+ thread on gender and sexuality on AH I was a bit bamboozled.

Since I joined I've noticed this recurring theme and for me it came to a head when all the threads on the George Incident had to be shut down.

I find it funny how people get so worked up still about something that doesn't affect them. I've seen people comment on LGBTQ+ interest articles on the likes of the journal/independent but I see it as different here, as people are going out of their way to start these threads. I find that interesting.

Geographically? Mentally? Religiously?

Less than 1% of articles on any news site (other than specialist) a day will be LGBTQ+ orientated, I don't believe that constant.

I believe I responded with decorum and intelligence to some of the posts below from
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...7759716&page=4


Great. What brand of Tampons do you use?
God I miss the days when men where men and women where women....
Boys should not be playing with Barbie dolls. If you want to raise your kid to be some sissy then go ahead but I won't be giving out to my son for laughing at yours and his Barbie.
You're not 'allowing' them to do anything, you're deliberately screwing them up in other to further societal acceptance of your abnormality.
Why not just raise them normally?
Blame psychology. F***ed up excuse for a science.
That's the way the world works.If children made decisions for themselves none of them would go to school do their homework and we'd be left with generation after generation of lazy idiots.Although based on some of your posts maybe that's what happened in your house growing up.


I don't believe these opinions deserve any respect but I didn't make assumptions about their parents, their gender, their sexuality. I have engaged so I didn't treat them as beneath consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_E View Post
It's a popular social topic and issue, it has constant mainstream coverage. You don't have to talk about people discussing it in a pejorative manner. You don't know where they are coming from.

I love this this quote!

Yeh i'm realising that AH isn't a place to thread because it's just rehash the same topics.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodshape View Post
on the Internet especially, not knowing what you're talking about is no barrier to talking about it at length.

Just a query, but would it be worth while lobbying Mods to include a ban on homophobia/transphobia on Forum Charters? Are we allowed to do that?

May I respond to this post JoeytheParrot? Thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeytheparrot View Post
Mod

Folks the lgbt forum is not really a place to give out about other boards.ie forums.

The lgbt moderators only have responsibility for the lgbt forum

If you have an issue with another forum and feel there are issues then I would suggest the following
1 Report posts you feel do not meet that forums charter
2 If you feel action taken is inadequate then go through the feedback process; contact the mods, then c mods then feedback forum

May I ask are the this forums moderators actively lobbying for a ban on homophobia/transphobia site wide?

I don't want to over step on anyone's toes.

They are obsessed with us . . .

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2057761627

I've started a moderator issue in Helpdesk

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2057761640

Please show your support.

gizmo81

That thread that was blocked by the LGBTBQ+ mods is a thread where the few (I wonder why) LGBTQ+ users voiced there concerns about the disgusting homo/transphobic abuse allowed remain on the main page of Boards.ie

My intention was to galvanise the community and it worked. People spoke from the heart of their concerns. And the mods don't like it because it shows them in a bad light.

Well, you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette.

I am happy in the support I got from users.

Now, lets move on from your snipping. Swallow your pride. And add Homo/Transphobia to the charters. Thanks

Mr.Frame

Its been a few days now since the Mods of AH has said they would talk to other Mods on Boards.ie about changing the AH charter, to include no homophobic or transphobic comments .

Just wondering, has anything happened re the above ?
Thanks

KERSPLAT!

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Its been a few days now since the Mods of AH has said they would talk to other Mods on Boards.ie about changing the AH charter, to include no homophobic or transphobic comments .

Just wondering, has anything happened re the above ?
Thanks

That's not what happened. I, as the cmod of the category that contains AH, said I would discuss this with the AH mods. That's taking place at present.

Captain Obvious

If you are bringing in a provision against homophobic and transphobic stuff I suggest you include a definition of what constitutes each.

gizmo81

I don't think boards is overtly racist somehow people have learned not to voice their bigotry from the charter outline below, though they could do with some work on the sexism rules, if people need more of an explanation of what homo/transphobic abuse see below.

No Racism
Zero tolerance will be shown to posts containing racism or discrimination. This includes the travelling community. Please do not use this forum to incite hatred.

Sexism is not tolerated.
Sexism or hatred towards either gender will not be tolerated.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63135338#post63135338


Homo/transphobic abuse normally follows along three lines, Criminality, Contagion and Morality, blocking abuse along these three lines would make a big difference:

Criminality, equalting LGBTQ+ with criminal acts like pedophilia and beastiality.
Contagion, equating LGBTQ+ with disease, from comments like 'go to your poz party' to not allowing sex education in schools for fear of homosexuality 'spreading', Russia's Gay Propaganda law.
Morality, equating LGBTQ+ with being unnatural, against GOD.

Zaph

I think something that's worth pointing out is that the majority of non-LGBTQ+ people, including Boards mods, probably would not always understand the context or meaning behind some posts that to a member of the community are derogatory and unacceptable. For example, the post below:

gizmo81 wrote: »

'go to your poz party'

I have no idea what a poz party is or why that post is derogatory, however the fact that you've included it as an example clearly demonstrates that it is. But I don't think it's realistic for every mod to be fully aware of of every single slur that's directed toward any group or individual. Therefore they rely on Posts being reported, so when something like the post above is reported the it would be helpful if the person reporiing it could include a brief explanatory note as to what causes it to be offensive.

gizmo81

Zaph wrote: »

I think something that's worth pointing out is that the majority of non-LGBTQ+ people, including Boards mods, probably would not always understand the context or meaning behind some posts that to a member of the community are derogatory and unacceptable. For example, the post below:



I have no idea what a poz party is or why that post is derogatory, however the fact that you've included it as an example clearly demonstrates that it is. But I don't think it's realistic for every mod to be fully aware of of every single slur that's directed toward any group or individual. Therefore they rely on Posts being reported, so when something like the post above is reported the it would be helpful if you could include a brief explanatory note as to what causes it to be offensive.

You have no idea what 'poz' is in relation to contagion?

Also it's extensively documented on google, urban dictionary, independent.ie

Zaph

gizmo81 wrote: »

You have no idea what 'poz' is in relation to contagion?

Also it's extensively documented on google, urban dictionary, independent.ie

No, why would, or should I, and I doubt I'd be alone in that. I'm sure there are many other slurs aimed at other communities that would mean nothing to me either. And just because it's documented on Google, etc., still doesn't mean I should know what it means or why it's derogatory, which is why I stated that it would be helpful if an explanation was provided for some of the less obvious abusive terms when they're being reported.

gizmo81

You continue fooling yourself because you are not fooling me.

I'm not engaging in this childish behaviour from now on. I find it very disrespectful given the gravity of the situation.

I suggest you consider your actions on this thread.

having a go at another forum is not, and has never been acceptable

abusing the mods isn't going to win over anybody

having it in the charter isn't going to deter them

I have no idea

I don't think it's realistic for every mod to be fully aware of of every single slur

why would, or should I,

gizmo81

This is why we are here, not because Gizmo is a pr**k or Gizmo hurt my feelings . .

We are here because no LGBTQ+ person should have to see this especially younger members of the community who come to boards.ie for advice on coming out etc.

When will they add S for schizophrenic and other mental illnesses? (Hank Scorpio)

Wouldn't you be happier at one of your poz parties? (Funky Bass)

Great. What brand of Tampons do you use?
God I miss the days when men where men and women where women....
Boys should not be playing with Barbie dolls. If you want to raise your kid to be some sissy then go ahead but I won't be giving out to my son for laughing at yours and his Barbie.
You're not 'allowing' them to do anything, you're deliberately screwing them up in other to further societal acceptance of your abnormality.
Why not just raise them normally?

The '+' always seems a little sneaky to me : just put the 'P' rather than being coy and discriminating against Paedophiles.

Nagnata: What if someone is a nonce?

Traveller Row: They get a P for 'pedosexual'.

Zaph

gizmo81 wrote: »

You continue fooling yourself because you are not fooling me.

I'm not engaging in this childish behaviour from now on. I find it very disrespectful given the gravity of the situation.

I suggest you consider your actions on this thread.

Now hang on a minute there, you're not engaging in this childish behaviour because you find it disrespectful? I ask a genuine question about a term I've never heard before and I'm somehow fooling myself and have to consider my actions on this thread? Did you ever consider the possibility that you're condescending attitude is disrespectful to others from up on that high horse of yours? You are the living embodiment of a snowflake who takes offence at every little thing, and quite frankly I'm fed up with your nonsense on this thread. Personally I couldn't give a crap about a person's gender or sexual orientation, and I will defend anyone on this site who is being subjected to unwarranted abuse of any kind should I come across it, but that doesn't necessarily translate to me being an active member of their communities and automatically understanding all the issues they face. So when I asked the question above it was to better understand what the issue is so that I can address it if I see the term being used again on the site. I certainly didn't expect to be subjected to a torrent of crap from someone who is so intent on taking offence at everything that they assume that every comment is a personal dig at them.

So here's where we are on all this - the AH mods are currently reviewing their charter to simplify it and to ensure that it's more obviously inclusive. It'll be posted when it's done, but it's not going to happen overnight because there's a lot to consider, more than just homophobia and transphobia, and they want to get it right first time. And in the meantime I'm doing what should have been done days ago and closing this thread because the levels of nonsense in it are increasing exponentially and it's not going to get any better.