Season 7 Speculation thread - "Book readers"

CMOTDibbler

leggo wrote: »

That's not why Cersei kept her alive, she was clear she wanted her to watch Tyene die. We'll likely never see or hear from her again. And what Cersei would do, if she wins, is give Dorne to one of her allies.

Don't be a spoilsport.

She's going to be kept alive isn't she?

Sleepy

I can't recall which but Tywin or Tyrion actually comment on Cersei's actions in the book: they ascribe a "certain low cunning" to her while basically saying she's too stupid to see the big picture.

CMOTDibbler

Sleepy wrote: »

I can't recall which but Tywin or Tyrion actually comment on Cersei's actions in the book: they ascribe a "certain low cunning" to her while basically saying she's too stupid to see the big picture.

Yeah, it was Tyrion. In his thoughts.

His sister was not without a certain low cunning, but her pride blinded her.

leggo

One thing I wanna give them credit for is misdirecting us with the trailer and what we expected. If you combine where we were at the end of the last season with what we saw, we'd (or at least I would) have thought Yara and Theon were attacking Euron and that the battle of Casterly Rock was the giant siege Dany and Tyrion thought it'd be. I was so sure on what I thought was going to happen but now I can't be anymore. Now Cersei looks on the ascendency and Dany looks extremely vulnerable. That didn't seem possible a few weeks ago.

It makes me question what else I think I know: like the clips of Jon fighting the Army of the Dead with The Hound etc. How the hell can they twist and subvert that? And so on...

Riddle101

Is is possible that there is a spy within Deanery's inner circle? I mean Cersei and Jaime have been able to get the better of Deanerys at every turn. How do they know where to attack? Or what Deanerys plans are? Usually that type of masterful planning occurs when there is an informant giving information to the enemy.

CMOTDibbler

Riddle101 wrote: »

Is is possible that there is a spy within Deanery's inner circle? I mean Cersei and Jaime have been able to get the better of Deanerys at every turn. How do they know where to attack? Or what Deanerys plans are? Usually that type of masterful planning occurs when there is an informant giving information to the enemy.

In some ways, it probably demonstrates the difference between a 'foreign invader' and an indigenous ruler. The invader has no reliable sources of information and lines of communication that the indigenous rulers do. The system of raven communication depends on an interchange of ravens from different locations, so a Maester would be able to send messages anywhere he has ravens homed to.

Dany has none of that. Her best method of gaining intelligence would be through using her dragons, but that requires her to be absent and in danger unless she flies high enough. Perhaps that will be her next move.

leggo

I'm wary of Varys and the discussion Dany had with him at the start of the season may become more relevant, but I don't see him just being a spy for Cersei either. That'd mean she signed off on him saving Tyrion and so on. It'd only make sense if they were going with a retcon version of the Aegon story, but I think that ship has sailed, so I don't know. I definitely see another betrayal in the works though, Cersei seems one step ahead constantly...

Kunkka

The only person with scope to betray Dany is Varys though I reckon? Everyone else worships the ground she walks on. Tyrion seems to be siding with Jon a lot but Jon and Dany obviously end up on the same side so that isn't a possibility. I do agree in principle that we're due a few shocks yet but from where?

podgemonster

The entrance of the Iron Bank adds another element to proceedings. All the momentum has been with Cersei so far but all the attacks have been executed by her two capable generals (Jaime & Euron). Cersei thinks she's smarter than she is and I am certain it will be her error that will turn the tables, not Dany.


Jaime now has to get the Tyrell gold from The Reach to KL. The movement will be slow. They could also use Euron to ship it. All convoys land or sea are open to a Dragon attack and Euron could defect to Dany now that she needs a new ally and he will have more leverage.


I predict the gold to be lost or stolen and Cersei's fatal mistake will be having the Mountain off Tyco thus setting in place a motion where a faceless man will come for Cersei, wearing a familiar face.

wp_rathead

Lads, we're effectively in the last season as only 10 episodes of Game of Thrones left (4+6)

Loafing Oaf

wp_rathead wrote: »

Lads, we're effectively in the last season as only 10 episodes of Game of Thrones left (4+6)

Well there's always might be the sequels/prequels...

duploelabs

Did the night King match south before? Are they instigated by the waking of magic from Dany's eggs hatching?

golfball37

duploelabs wrote: »

Did the night King match south before? Are they instigated by the waking of magic from Dany's eggs hatching?

I assume the wall prevented that?

CMOTDibbler

duploelabs wrote: »

Did the night King match south before? Are they instigated by the waking of magic from Dany's eggs hatching?

Thousands of years before Aegon's conquest they marched south. That was when the discovery of dragonglass as a weapon against them was made and the wall was built. The Night's watch was formed then too.

The period was called the long night. It was a winter that lasted for years and there was darkness for a generation. So they say.

Liamalone

duploelabs wrote: »

Did the night King match south before? Are they instigated by the waking of magic from Dany's eggs hatching?

The Night King needs to learn how to march first, or read a map or something. Taking way too long to get to the wall when everyone else is teleporting here and there.

duploelabs

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Thousands of years before Aegon's conquest they marched south. That was when the discovery of dragonglass as a weapon against them was made and the wall was built. The Night's watch was formed then too.

The period was called the long night. It was a winter that lasted for years and there was darkness for a generation. So they say.

It is known

CMOTDibbler

Liamalone wrote: »

The Night King needs to learn how to march first, or read a map or something. Taking way too long to get to the wall when everyone else is teleporting here and there.

Every time somebody says this, i have this picture in my head of thousands of zombies walking into the wall, bouncing off and walking into it again.

duploelabs

duploelabs wrote: »

It is known

It is known

ThunbergsAreGo

The more I watch the less I see why people support Danarys, it's like Prince Harry coming over here with a load a barbarians and a death ray and asking to be king

I think there might be a mad queen in there somewhere!

Riddle101

naughtb4 wrote: »

The more I watch the less I see why people support Danarys, it's like Prince Harry coming over here with a load a barbarians and a death ray and asking to be king

I think there might be a mad queen in there somewhere!

I've never been a big fan of the Deanerys characters, but i've always found that people are harder on her than others. Stannis was the same in that he wanted people to bend the knee to him because he believed it was his by right. The way I see it, the one who has the power to take it, is the true king. Aegon Targaryen took the throne 300 years before, and then King Robert took it during the rebellion. Now House Lannister has it and it will have to be taken by force once again. In other words, all these people who believe they have a claim to the Iron Throne are just fooling themselves. The power lies in those who have the ability to take it for themselves.

ThunbergsAreGo

Riddle101 wrote: »

I've never been a big fan of the Deanerys characters, but i've always found that people are harder on her than others. Stannis was the same in that he wanted people to bend the knee to him because he believed it was his by right. The way I see it, the one who has the power to take it, is the true king. Aegon Targaryen took the throne 300 years before, and then King Robert took it during the rebellion. Now House Lannister has it and it will have to be taken by force once again. In other words, all these people who believe they have a claim to the Iron Throne are just fooling themselves. The power lies in those who have the ability to take it for themselves.

But didn't Stannis and Robert conquer using Westerosi?

CMOTDibbler

naughtb4 wrote: »

But didn't Stannis and Robert conquer using Westerosi?

Stannis conquered the square root of feck all.

Savage Tyrant

As the books stand, Stannis Baratheon is the only legitimate claimant to the Iron Throne, but Riddle is correct, the true power actually resides with whomever can seize it and hold it.

Liam O

Isn't there a fairly prominent theory in the books that Tarly is going to go for Aegon and the final small council meeting he is purposely playing off the threat of him? Could be a similar story now after the last episode.

I'm starting to think, well have thought for a while, that the Prince that was promised in the show is going to be Jon and Dany's kid. More general theory than this season maybe though...

ThunbergsAreGo

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Every time somebody says this, i have this picture in my head of thousands of zombies walking into the wall, bouncing off and walking into it again.

What do the white walkers do when not marching?

Its a question that needs answering

Falthyron

Don't know if this has been said before, but I reckon a 'Song of Ice and Fire' being the coming together of Jon and Dany is misinterpreted. I reckon a 'Song of Ice and Fire' will actually be the name of the book Samwell Tarly will write and it will be about Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. Everything that has happened leading up to this Winter has been brought about by their secret love and the consequences of their actions.

Its a Romeo and Juliet story, whereas Jon and Dany, as a couple, is more contrived due to their circumstances (they need each other for their personal causes). I think this season will end with Sam learning about Jon's parents, the Night King's apparent and imminent victory (perhaps by passing under/over/through the wall), and his decision to chronicle the tale that led to this moment in preparation for whatever comes next - as Archmaester Ebrose stated: many have thought the world would end, and yet here we are. I know Martin is a massive Tolkien fan and I wonder if he is going to emulate his hero by ending it with a sort of postmodernist twist, similar to Bilbo writing The Hobbit and Frodo writing The Lord of the Rings.

leggo

Yep that's also how I think it'll end. They may have played their hand with the "something more poetic maybe?" line earlier in the season.

beans

Does anyone else think that Jon might resolve the constant requests for bending of the knee to actually get down and ask to marry Dany? I hope they don't go down that route 'cos it's a fairly silly play on words.

Loafing Oaf

beans wrote: »

Does anyone else think that Jon might resolve the constant requests for bending of the knee to actually get down and ask to marry Dany? I hope they don't go down that route 'cos it's a fairly silly play on words.

After the breakup of his second marriage, Paul McCartney was asked by a journalist if he'd be going down on one knee again. He replied, "I'd rather you called her 'Heather.'"

Fian

beans wrote: »

Does anyone else think that Jon might resolve the constant requests for bending of the knee to actually get down and ask to marry Dany? I hope they don't go down that route 'cos it's a fairly silly play on words.

That exact thought occurred to me too, for a moment I thought she was going to suggest that option to him in the cave or after she discovered her unsullied had been stranded.

duploelabs

Falthyron wrote: »

Don't know if this has been said before, but I reckon a 'Song of Ice and Fire' being the coming together of Jon and Dany is misinterpreted. I reckon a 'Song of Ice and Fire' will actually be the name of the book Samwell Tarly will write and it will be about Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen. Everything that has happened leading up to this Winter has been brought about by their secret love and the consequences of their actions.

Its a Romeo and Juliet story, whereas Jon and Dany, as a couple, is more contrived due to their circumstances (they need each other for their personal causes). I think this season will end with Sam learning about Jon's parents, the Night King's apparent and imminent victory (perhaps by passing under/over/through the wall), and his decision to chronicle the tale that led to this moment in preparation for whatever comes next - as Archmaester Ebrose stated: many have thought the world would end, and yet here we are. I know Martin is a massive Tolkien fan and I wonder if he is going to emulate his hero by ending it with a sort of postmodernist twist, similar to Bilbo writing The Hobbit and Frodo writing The Lord of the Rings.

Well I don't think so, Ice and fire is mentioned in the prophesies, as well as Mel saying she 'brought Ice and Fire together'

Sleepy

Something that's been crossing my mind lately: what happens with the Dothraki when Danaerys wins the Iron throne? They're hardly compatible with the general feudal system of rule in Westeros?

Falthyron

Sleepy wrote: »

Something that's been crossing my mind lately: what happens with the Dothraki when Danaerys wins the Iron throne? They're hardly compatible with the general feudal system of rule in Westeros?

Dothraki and Wildlings inter-marrying. What a combination that would make :pac:

BoJack Horseman

Sleepy wrote: »

Something that's been crossing my mind lately: what happens with the Dothraki when Danaerys wins the Iron throne? They're hardly compatible with the general feudal system of rule in Westeros?

Whoa there!

We have to accommodate our new guests.
Be more multicultural!

#DothrakiWelcome

bnt

Considering how much has gone wrong for Daenerys so far, an article in Esquire raises another sinister possibility that has gotten me thinking: could she "turn to the dark side" and become the new villain of the story? In her dragons, she has the Westerosi equivalent of "weapons of mass destruction", and has shown some alarming dictatorial tendencies - such as hanging on to all those titles. Recent episodes have made a point of showing how Jon is the opposite, having just one title ("King in the North") which was forced on him and which he doesn't use himself.

If Daenerys gets pushed too close to the edge of defeat, she could go off the rails, the gloves could come off, and all the advice she received about not targeting civilians could go out the window. :eek:

Mickeroo

Bit late in the game for something like that now. More likely Cersei gets killed this season leaving the Night King to step in as the big bad guy next season.

Riddle101

Mickeroo wrote: »

Bit late in the game for something like that now. More likely Cersei gets killed this season leaving the Night King to step in as the big bad guy next season.

I just hope the Night's King won't be a disappointment. I've waited 7/8 seasons to see these guys in action, and to see what a threat they truly are. I'd be very disappointed if the Night's King doesn't live up to the hype.

PhlegmyMoses

Littlefinger, where are we seeing his arc going? Lots of brooding shots but he seems to be floundering trying to make moves with people who are almost allergic to what he is trying to do, Jon, Bran, even Sansa. He is almost a mirror image of Ned in Kings Landing, playing draughts when everyone else is playing chess. He is obviously being kept on screen for a reason, but I'm struggling to see what that reason is at the moment.

PhlegmyMoses

Sleepy wrote: »

Something that's been crossing my mind lately: what happens with the Dothraki when Danaerys wins the Iron throne? They're hardly compatible with the general feudal system of rule in Westeros?

Was thinking similar. They are absolutely getting wiped out somehow, imo.

Liam O

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Littlefinger, where are we seeing his arc going? Lots of brooding shots but he seems to be floundering trying to make moves with people who are almost allergic to what he is trying to do, Jon, Bran, even Sansa. He is almost a mirror image of Ned in Kings Landing, playing draughts when everyone else is playing chess. He is obviously being kept on screen for a reason, but I'm struggling to see what that reason is at the moment.

He's gaining a lot of information and what's going on isn't exactly bad for what he is trying to achieve. He will try play the Starks against each other. The worry for him will be that Arya could start tracking him and uncover what he is upto with whatever information he gains from Luwin's notes or be confided in depending what face she wears at the time. Arya would have to kill to get to that position though more than likely and that would probably cause trouble for Arya and fracture the relationships between the siblings. They are desperately trying to keep the northern lords on side and her acting like a wild wolf will have her as a liability.

golfball37

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Was thinking similar. They are absolutely getting wiped out somehow, imo.

They'd make fearsome wights!

I thought in the books it was being set up that Dany was never going to come home, just end up freeing slaves

Kunkka

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Was thinking similar. They are absolutely getting wiped out somehow, imo.

I agree, maybe Dany sends them to fight the Night King later on or Cersei will have another wild fire trick up her sleeve?

blanch152

beans wrote: »

Does anyone else think that Jon might resolve the constant requests for bending of the knee to actually get down and ask to marry Dany? I hope they don't go down that route 'cos it's a fairly silly play on words.

Bran is now the legitimate King of the North, as Robb's heir. Jon could bend the knee to Dany and the North could still be free. Dany may not be aware of this.

RobbingBandit

Cersei hopefully doesn't die this season but with the near miss or possible demise of Jamie could his death cause her to commit suicide there by still meaning she dies because of her "little brother"

Savage Tyrant

blanch152 wrote: »

Bran is now the legitimate King of the North, as Robb's heir. Jon could bend the knee to Dany and the North could still be free. Dany may not be aware of this.

Jon didn't inherit the title of King in the North from Robb. He was declared King by the Northern Lords (and a Lady) separately.
Bran has a legitimate claim to the Lordship of Winterfell, but not the Kingship. Not that I think he has any sights on either.

Savage Tyrant

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Cersei hopefully doesn't die this season but with the near miss or possible demise of Jamie could his death cause her to commit suicide there by still meaning she dies because of her "little brother"

I think Jamie literally puts a sword through her (after being freed from Daenerys' captivity by Tyrion) ... and possibly doing so, forges the Lightbringer sword from Widow's Wail (that's a stretch as that would mean he is Azor Ahai. It would work, but my hunch is that is still Jon Snow)

NewCorkLad

I can see Cersei dying this season. Jaime will be captured now and after a few heart to hearts with Tyrion will decided that its futile to keep fighting against Danys army and dragons. They will send him into KL to try convince Cersei to surrender and go into exile with him, however she will decide to stay and fight, KL can burn with her for all she cares at which point Jaime will again pick up a sword to save the people of KL.

Tenger

Glebee wrote: »

Has the latest episode moved ahead of the books yet in any way. I think Igot to read A Storm of Swords but just interested are the plots out of book yet?

Pretty much left the books behind halfway through last season.
Next book should cover what we are seeing currently. GRRM stated that next book has a couple of large battles.

RobbingBandit

Cersei was seen standing on the map of Westeros on the neck with Jamie on the fingers again a prelude to him putting the gold hand to use and choking the bitch but this being the tv show these guys like to screw with the audience I can see a curveball coming somehow. If Dany does somehow get Jamie and doesn't kill him it's a major book and tv plot hole, this is the man that stuck a sword in her father, yes he did it for a good reason protecting his own father but no way could she have him and not kill him it would be preposterous.