Dublin City Marathon 29 Oct 2017 - *** NOTE: no number transfer!

Hitman3000

S.L.F. wrote:

The figures you concocted in your head about Dublin are not real. Therefore it's rubbish in my books

Care to provide your own? Of course they would nedd to be accurate.

S.L.F.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Why not play the ball instead of the man?

Says he after the 'man' calls me bitch..

Do us a favour bud

S.L.F.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Care to provide your own? Of course they would nedd to be accurate.

There is no emoji for scratching head

El Caballo

S.L.F. wrote: »

I was just waiting since my post yesterday for someone to compare us to another country. The same posters responding with the same story every year.

Youre just making up rubbish figures now to prove your point.

I could just as easily say how about charging 50 quid and allowing transfers till August.

Are you involved with a club comitee or the organization of any road races? If you are, you would understand pricing of events and the effect on pricing. It's easy to criticise organisations from the sideline but balancing the books is a different story, less partipants means an increased price to cover expenses. What other posters are saying is with this in mind as many are involved in race and club organisation. A price cut like you have suggested doom the race. The DCM struggled to survive a couple of years ago after the title sponsor dropped out which should show that entry fees alone were barely sufficient to keep the race going.

The organisers are not forcing anyone to do the DCM, it's your choice in which you are fully aware of the terms of a DNS. The DCM is actually excellent value compared to other marathons across Ireland, Around the same price point while being 1000x more of a logistical nightmare while still remaining an athletics incentivised event.

Hitman3000

S.L.F. wrote:

Says he after the 'man' calls me bitch..

He didn't though as I'm sure you know. To bitch and moan is a common phrase.
Btw I'm not your 'bud' or anyone else's in here.

Hitman3000

S.L.F. wrote:

There is no emoji for scratching head

So you call someone out on their figures but unwilling to refute them? Seems legit.

robinph

S.L.F. wrote: »

The figures you concocted in your head about Dublin are not real. Therefore it's rubbish in my books

What numbers are not real?

20,000 people paid between €70 and €90 to enter. 16,000 ran on the day.
The course is only licensed for a particular number of competitors, someone did say what it was previously I think, but it's going to be around about the 16,000 mark.

It's fairly simple maths to figure out what the entry fee would have to change to if they were only allowed to sell 16,000 entries (because a higher percentage will run) but still get the same income.

Testosterscone

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Berlin charges in excess of a 100 euro with no t-shirt in the fee.

117e to be precise (108e excluding taxes + 6 for Chip rental)

RayCun

S.L.F. wrote: »

The figures you concocted in your head about Dublin are not real. Therefore it's rubbish in my books

Which figures? 20,000 entrants this year? Average of 80 euro entry fee? 160,000 in entry fees? 16,000 actual runners? 160,000 divided by 16,000 equalling 100?

S.L.F.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

He didn't though as I'm sure you know. To bitch and moan is a common phrase.
Btw I'm not your 'bud' or anyone else's in here.

A bitch is a moan is it not.

Sorry for calling you bud...i didn't realise you're the hitman

Djoucer

robinph wrote: »

Testosterscone wrote: »

...

Then add in the fee they give to clubs per steward as well as the cost of putting up the elite fields (flights food accomodation)

Not a whole lot left in the pockets

I think they may have been flying/ ferrying in medical staff and equipment in as well. On walking into the start area I noticed one of the ambulances said "Festival Medical Services" on it, but I wasn't quick enough to notice if it was the same charity that grew out of providing the medical staff for Glastonbury or not and thought nothing more of it. On my flight back that evening though there were about 6 people in Dublin Marathon hoodies with Medic printed on the back so they had obviously been shipped over to provide staffing, and some more of them were probably on the ferry back with the ambulance.

I was in the med tent for DCM and Glastonbury. Same set up at weekend and someone confirmed same crowd as Glastonbury. Really impressive. Arguably better than some facilities in Ireland. They check you in and out on computer, top class stuff.

At Glastonbury, the meds had to fix bad treatment I received at an Irish hospital.

Really is impressive.

Testosterscone

S.L.F. wrote: »

A bitch is a moan is it not.

Sorry for calling you bud...i didn't realise you're the hitman

Let me add clarity for you

ger664

I was offered insurance on my entry for Seville this year against a DNS due injury/medical. Marathon entry was €45 insurance was €7 from what I recall as I didn't take up the offer.

Insurances companies normally get this sort of thing right so to cover deferrals/refunds it would need ~15% increase in price

robinph

Djoucer wrote: »

I was in the med tent for DCM and Glastonbury. Same set up at weekend. Really impressive. Arguably better than some facilities in Ireland. They check you in and out on computer, top class stuff.

At Glastonbury, the meds had to fix bad treatment I received at an Irish hospital.

Really is impressive.

I have made use of them at Glastonbury a few time myself, for myself and for the baby, and was very impressed with them every time. Certainly feel very safe knowing they are around. Glad to hear it is the same crew.

S.L.F.

Testosterscone wrote: »

Let me add clarity for you

Maybe if more people did moan to the authorities over these kind of things we might actually get somewhere instead of taking everything lying down.

Testosterscone

Zebra3 wrote: »

Why would they pay for the elite field?

This is a the norm in the sport. Most Elite runners will get flights and accommodation(usually bunked up a few to a room before you think its a glitz and glamour lifestyle), some of the really big races will also get appearance fee's given that most of these runners don't have a regular wage the chance of the prize money will hopefully cover some of there living expenses for the previous few months training but at worst they don't want to be out of pocket even more than full time training has left them with nothing to show for it.

Hitman3000

S.L.F. wrote:

A bitch is a moan is it not.

No to 'bitch and moan' is a very common expression. Again I'm sure you know this. Not discussing it further with you.

Hitman3000

S.L.F. wrote:

Maybe if more people did moan to the authorities over these kind of things we might actually get somewhere instead of taking everything lying down.

Or just don't enter, instead of" ........ and moaning".

Testosterscone

S.L.F. wrote: »

Maybe if more people did moan to the authorities over these kind of things we might actually get somewhere instead of taking everything lying down.

The reason why this grinds my gears is the fact that people complain after the fact where are these concerns when reading the terms and conditions when signing up?

These complaints just lead to good races falling by the wayside (look at Ballycotton) and leave it open to more companies coming in offering all the frills while chopping away at the core elements of a good race (accurately measured and aimed around providing a well organised race as opposed to a novelty day out) until the money dries up and they will be gone

If you want to keep the cost low do an Marathon Club Ireland event, well organised but you are not paying for road closures/gardai, insurance, stocked water stations, finishers t-shirt etc but if you want all those elements then it will be reflected in the price

S.L.F.

Testosterscone wrote: »

The reason why this grinds my gears is the fact that people complain after the fact where are these concerns when reading the terms and conditions when signing up?

These complaints just lead to good races falling by the wayside (look at Ballycotton) and leave it open to more companies coming in offering all the frills while chopping away at the core elements of a good race (accurately measured and aimed around providing a well organised race as opposed to a novelty day out) until the money dries up and they will be gone

If you want to keep the cost low do an Marathon Club Ireland event, well organised but you are not paying for road closures/gardai, insurance, stocked water stations, finishers t-shirt etc but if you want all those elements then it will be reflected in the price

This is new scenario that's why. I dont believe they knew 20% of thef field would drop out and hopefully in the next year or so when they establish this race on the Sunday they will look at the plans again and sort out some kind of fair play. People want to run the biggest country marathon. Why shouldn't they have input into it when it's their purse that keeps it going.

Testosterscone

S.L.F. wrote: »

This is new scenario that's why. I dont believe they knew 20% of thef field would drop out and hopefully in the next year or so when they establish this race on the Sunday they will look at the plans again and sort out some kind of fair play. People want to run the biggest country marathon. Why shouldn't they have input into it when it's their purse that keeps it going.

Race organisation account for approx 10-15% non starters that cushion is accounted for when sorting out budget logistics, the easy thing would be to budget for the full quota but this would mean that overall entry prices would increase and that would be even more an unpopular option because people want the most for as little money as possible so they aim to find best balance.

The marathon became one of the biggest in Europe because of the organisation. If you wish to have input then offer to help with what is effectively a volunteer organisation. I would not expect to have an input on the organisation of the race just because I paid just like I wouldn't be demanding to amend the playlist at a Bruce Springsteen concert just because I bought a ticket or telling Mourinho who to play because I was sitting in the stands with my Jersey.

ultrapercy

Testosterscone wrote: »

Race organisation account for approx 10-15% non starters that cushion is accounted for when sorting out budget logistics, the easy thing would be to budget for the full quota but this would mean that overall entry prices would increase and that would be even more an unpopular option because people want the most for as little money as possible so they aim to find best balance.

The marathon became one of the biggest in Europe because of the organisation. If you wish to have input then offer to help with what is effectively a volunteer organisation. I would not expect to have an input on the organisation of the race just because I paid just like I wouldn't be demanding to amend the playlist at a Bruce Springsteen concert just because I bought a ticket or telling Mourinho who to play because I was sitting in the stands with my Jersey.

I agree I have full faith in the organisers to keep improving the event. The race has improved every year since I first ran it to a point where it is now the 5th most popular in Europe. Im sure everything they can improve the will in time. One thing is certain though every race with pre entry will have some level of dns and not everyone can be renumerated. Its the same situation pre booking anythinng flights hotels tickets for concerts etc.

robinph

Not completely reliable and is dependant on the race numbers being sequential without any gaps, but approximately here is the percentages of finishers compared to entrants for the last few years:

2017 - Highest race number 21299, last finisher 15822 = 74% finished
2016 - Highest race number 22000, last finisher 16660 = 76% finished
2015 - Highest race number 16924, last finisher 12848 = 76% finished
2014 - Highest race number 15800, last finisher 12233= 77% finished
2013 - Highest race number 17884, last finisher 12284 = 69% finished
2012 - Highest race number 17948, last finisher 12076 = 67% finished

That suggests that there was something different with issuing of race numbers going on in 2012 and 2013, but other than that the percentage of finishers is pretty consistent over the years regardless of if the race sold out in advance or if it was on a Monday or Sunday. As stated multiple times before these ratios are well known by race organisers and it is what they work to in figuring out costs and everything that is required.

Note: 2012 is the earliest year that I could pull the data from TDL for.

Murph_D

RayCun wrote: »

If 20,000 people did actually run there'd be a real crush

Exactly. I suppose my post is a little ambiguous - I meant the organisers were probably anticipating around 18k starters, not that they should have accepted 22k entries to get 20k starters!

S.L.F.

robinph wrote: »

Not completely reliable and is dependant on the race numbers being sequential without any gaps, but approximately here is the percentages of finishers compared to entrants for the last few years:

2017 - Highest race number 21299, last finisher 15822 = 74% finished
2016 - Highest race number 22000, last finisher 16660 = 76% finished
2015 - Highest race number 16924, last finisher 12848 = 76% finished
2014 - Highest race number 15800, last finisher 12233= 77% finished
2013 - Highest race number 17884, last finisher 12284 = 69% finished
2012 - Highest race number 17948, last finisher 12076 = 67% finished

That suggests that there was something different with issuing of race numbers going on in 2012 and 2013, but other than that the percentage of finishers is pretty consistent over the years regardless of if the race sold out in advance or if it was on a Monday or Sunday. As stated multiple times before these ratios are well known by race organisers and it is what they work to in figuring out costs and everything that is required.

Note: 2012 is the earliest year that I could pull the data from TDL for.

Well I can't argue with the figures if they're just based on who actually didn't start.

It actually emphasises even more the reasons why they should allow transfer or postpone

RayCun

S.L.F. wrote: »

It actually emphasises even more the reasons why they should allow transfer or postpone

Unlike every other major marathon, and without any increase in price :rolleyes:

robinph

S.L.F. wrote: »

Well I can't argue with the figures if they're just based on who actually didn't start.

That is just the highest issued number, and does not mean there were that many entries as there are gaps within the number sequence. I also didn't go to the bother of figuring out who crossed the start line, as there are people who start early, miss timing mats, cheat, just cross the finish line to claim a medal tshirt etc. The number I grabbed was just the number of chips that crossed the finish line.

S.L.F. wrote: »

It actually emphasises even more the reasons why they should allow transfer or postpone

It emphasises nothing of the sort.

All that you can take from those numbers is that there is a consistent difference between the number of numbers issued and the number of people who cross the finish line and that it doesn't vary by a huge amount from one year to the next. I did also have a quick glance at some other races of other distances and different participation numbers from the TDL site. The percentage always came out at around the 70%-80% range regardless of if there were 1500 entrants or 20,000 entrants and if it was a road 10km or trail marathon.

S.L.F.

RayCun wrote: »

Unlike every other major marathon, and without any increase in price :rolleyes:

Eh London?

Testosterscone

S.L.F. wrote: »

Eh London?

There is no deferral/transfer in London your entry fee is forfeit its only your spot for the next year that is saved (due to ballot system around entry)

kiloecho15

While there is not any official transfer of race numbers there is off course many numbers exchanged unofficially and sometimes money is paid for these. I have known many participants running under other peoples numbers. So if people followed the rules correctly then the numbers of DNS would be higher. When I entered I knew the price and the rules and so I knew that if I DNS I would loose my entry fee. I paid 70 euro for my entry and I thought it was good value for what I received. Brilliant race, support and well organised. If your not happy with the rules or price go and run elsewhere. There are many other marathons around the country that are cheap and cheerful.eg. east of Ireland and marathon club of Ireland.