New poster from seeking information on buying a property in Dublin

The_Conductor

Henbabani- I've moved your posts and responses into their own thread.

Regards-

The_Conductor

Have you researched the other side of the equation yet - what your likely after tax income might be?

Henbabani

mloc123 wrote: »

Henbabani wrote: »

No,

no, but we have to start in Dublin because there we can find work easily, that's because there's a lot of offer for Hebrew speakers.

Why not rent for a few months? I assume you have not moved over yet? Rent, get a feel for areas etc.. as you can see it is hard to figure out what an area is like to buy unless you actually walk around it.

yeah, the rent is bit problem when you come from foreign country because we don't have any references and the sale prices going up so as soon as we buy it'll be great.

Henbabani

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you researched the other side of the equation yet - what your likely after tax income might be?

i guess probably at least 25-30K for each one of us (we're couple without kids).

The_Conductor

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you researched the other side of the equation yet - what your likely after tax income might be?

Its a reasonable enough assumption that the max you should be spending on accommodation should be less than 40% of your net after tax income.

The marginal tax rate on income over 34k is >50% (you hit the higher rate at a ridiculously low level in Ireland).

An idea of what sector you're working in- and what your expected job might be in Ireland- would be very helpful for posters (and might also give people an idea of what part of Dublin you'd be best looking at).

The_Conductor

Henbabani wrote: »

i guess probably at least 25-30K for each one of us (we're couple without kids).

Here is a link to the Deloitte Irish tax calculator- it'll give you an idea of your after tax income.

http://services.deloitte.ie/tc/

Also- 25-30k would be considered to be low paid in an Irish context- its barely above minimum wage.

Edit- if you're both on 30k- it works out at 2,100 each per month- or about 490 (each) per week.
@ 35% of your net income- this is about 1,470 per month- call it 1,500

If you're on 25k- this works out at 1,800 each per month- or 418 (each) a week.
@ 35% of your net income - this is about 1,250 per month.

Henbabani

The_Conductor wrote: »

Henbabani wrote: »

i guess probably at least 25-30K for each one of us (we're couple without kids).

Here is a link to the Deloitte Irish tax calculator- it'll give you an idea of your after tax income.

http://services.deloitte.ie/tc/

Also- 25-30k would be considered to be low paid in an Irish context- its barely above minimum wage.

Edit- if you're both on 30k- it works out at 2,100 each per month- or about 490 (each) per week.
@ 35% of your net income- this is about 1,470 per month- call it 1,500

If you're on 25k- this works out at 1,800 each per month- or 418 (each) a week.
@ 35% of your net income - this is about 1,250 per month.

I meant 30,000k before tax, so if we are married its about 27k each after tax?
Isn't it a nice start salary?

The_Conductor

Henbabani wrote: »

I meant 30,000k before tax, so if we are married its about 27k each after tax?
Isn't it a nice start salary?

If you're married, and both on 30k- your net after tax income is less than 25k (each)- not 27k.

Use the Deloitte calculator I linked to- plug in your figures and see what it comes up with.

Graham

Assuming both on 30k that would mean not eligible for most work permits.

Henbabani

Graham wrote: »

Assuming both on 30k that would mean not eligible for most work permits.

my wife had Lithuanian nationality so as her spouse i can get work permit.
we gonna find some job specially for Hebrew speakers.
there's almost 40 positions like this only in Dublin, the salary range is from 27 to 50-60K
so i goes on the minimum level which is 30K for a year including bonuses.
thank you all for your kindly help

The_Conductor

Henbabani wrote: »

my wife had Lithuanian nationality so as her spouse i can get work permit.
we gonna find some job specially for Hebrew speakers.
there's almost 40 positions like this only in Dublin, the salary range is from 27 to 50-60K
so i goes on the minimum level which is 30K for a year including bonuses.
thank you all for your kindly help

Check the EPCI rules.
You do not qualify for a work permit as a spouse of an EU national, until such time as you have established permanent residency in this jurisdiction.
The rules all changed in April/May of this year.

Bob24

The_Conductor wrote: »

Check the EPCI rules.
You do not qualify for a work permit as a spouse of an EU national, until such time as you have established permanent residency in this jurisdiction.
The rules all changed in April/May of this year.

It is a bit off-topic, but as far as I know under EU Treaty Rights (European Directive 2004/38/EC) the OP is allowed to come to Ireland with their EU spouse for 3 months initially. And if their spouse finds employment here within these 3 months the OP will quality for a 5 years residence card as family member of an EU citizen (Stamp 4 EU Fam) which will allow them to work without the need for a work permit.

Did I miss something?

The_Conductor

Bob24 wrote: »

It is a bit off-topic, but as far as I know under EU Treaty Rights (European Directive 2004/38/EC) the OP is allowed to come to Ireland with their EU spouse for 3 months initially. And if their spouse finds employment here within these 3 months the OP will quality for a 5 years residence card as family member of an EU citizen (Stamp 4 EU Fam) which will allow them to work without the need for a work permit.

Did I miss something?

Only once they have established permanent residency requirements in this jurisdiction. The latest rules were published on the DJEI website in May here

There are a not insignificant number of rules.

If the OP's EU partner has permanent residency in this jurisdiction (which is not automatic) they are entitled to apply for a different type of employment permit- but *not* the dependent spouse rule- its to encourage researchers and areas in which there is a perceived skills shortage- such as nursing.

Bob24

The_Conductor wrote: »

Only once they have established permanent residency requirements in this jurisdiction. The latest rules were published on the DJEI website in May here

There are a not insignificant number of rules.

If the OP's EU partner has permanent residency in this jurisdiction (which is not automatic) they are entitled to apply for a different type of employment permit- but *not* the dependent spouse rule- its to encourage researchers and areas in which there is a perceived skills shortage- such as nursing.

OK I see what you meant. This does not apply to family members of EU citizens though. Directive 2004/38/EC forces Ireland to grant a residence card to direct family members of EU citizens (including spouses) as long as the EU citizen is employed (or studying) here, and that residence card lets the family member engage in any type of employment without the need for a work permit.

See here:
- http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_eu_national.html
- http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU+Treaty+Rights

The_Conductor

However, the EU citizen themselves- has to be resident here........
I.e. you can't leverage the fact that you have an EU spouse, to take up a job in Ireland. The spouse has to be legally resident here first- before the non-EU partner has the right to work here.

I've gone around this umpteen times, and petitioned the Department and 3 different Ministers- I've an Indian sister-in-law, who has been married to my brother for over 10 years- but they haven't lived here (they're currently living in London) and while she can live here, she can't work here (and despite having 2 kids who have Irish citizenship- also isn't entitled to Irish citizenship- which is proving an issue- particularly with Brexit etc on the horizon).

Bob24

The_Conductor wrote: »

However, the EU citizen themselves- has to be resident here........
I.e. you can't leverage the fact that you have an EU spouse, to take up a job in Ireland. The spouse has to be legally resident here first- before the non-EU partner has the right to work here.

I've gone around this umpteen times, and petitioned the Department and 3 different Ministers- I've an Indian sister-in-law, who has been married to my brother for over 10 years- but they haven't lived here (they're currently living in London) and while she can live here, she can't work here (and despite having 2 kids who have Irish citizenship- also isn't entitled to Irish citizenship- which is proving an issue- particularly with Brexit etc on the horizon).

If your brother is Irish it is a different situation. EU Treaty Rights only apply to EU citizens who are not seeking residence in their home country - so it doesn't apply to an Irish person in Ireland (whereas it would apply to the OP's Lithuanian spouse in Ireland - but not in Lithuania). One exception would be if you sister in law has a residence card for family member of an EU citizen issued by the UK - in which case she can transfer that right to Ireland (so assuming your brother is not a British citizen and thus qualifies for EUTR in the UK, my advice if they want to move here would be for her to get an EU family member residence card in the UK and then transfer that right to Ireland: see the second paragraph of answer 14 here: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EUTreatyRightsFAQs#Q14).

I am 100% sure of what I say and I have used this to bring my own non-EU partner to Ireland. She could work within a month (processing time of the initial stage of the application) as I was already working here myself.

Not sure what you mean by resident when you say "the EU citizen themselves- has to be resident here", but the only conditions are for the EU citizen to be non-Irish and to be either employed (even part time) or studying. Only this is sufficient for their spouse (and in some cases their non-married partner) to get a 5 years residence card and be allowed to work. So the OP can come here with their wife, and they will be allowed to stay 3 months with no condition. If their wife finds employment within those three months they are good to go and can get the 5 years residence card. If their wife doesn't they will not be able to legally remain in Ireland and will have to leave.

The_Conductor

What I meant was- an EU citizen- who has not established residency in the country, cannot be used as a mechanism for a non-EU national to gain employment rights in the country in question. In an Irish context- the OP's spouse would petition INIS and *may* (depending on their circumstances) be granted a work permit for Ireland. I have officially residency, for various purposes, in 2 other EU countries- and could, potentially, sponsor a spouse (if my wifey wasn't Irish) for an employment permit, in either France or Portugal. In practice, its an albatros around my neck- the paperwork involved in maintaining residency- is onerous (the Portuguese is even worse than the French)- but other than filing obligations (and property tax and the equivalent of local authority charges)- its relatively easy to maintain residency elsewhere (other than the initial setup which is a pain in the proverbial).

Thanks for the info re: my brother and his wife- I'm going to look into it further for them- as particularly in light of Brexit- they are looking into the possibilities for coming home.

johnnyskeleton

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'm not into sex in public, drugs or other antisocial behaviour

Its only anti social if you do it by yourself!

Henbabani

So to conclude this discussion
Everything is ok and after one-two months waiting for the permit i can work legally?
Right?
Thank you

Bob24

Henbabani wrote: »

So to conclude this discussion
Everything is ok and after one-two months waiting for the permit i can work legally?
Right?
Thank you

Only if your spouse finds employment within 3 months after your arrival. And to be able to work you will have to submit this form along with the supporting documents listed in section 4 and wait for the application to be processed: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%20EU1.pdf/Files/Form%20EU1.pdf

If your spouse doesn't find employment within that timeframe you will not only not be allowed to work, but you will also lose your right reside in Ireland.

A safer bet would probably be for your spouse to come first, and for you only to join her once she has found employement.

Bob24

The_Conductor wrote: »

Thanks for the info re: my brother and his wife- I'm going to look into it further for them- as particularly in light of Brexit- they are looking into the possibilities for coming home.

No worries. I'll stop derailing the thread but if you have questions to ask, as far as internet forums are concerned this is the best place I know of to discuss this topic: https://www.immigrationboards.com/ireland/

Henbabani

Bob24 wrote: »

Henbabani wrote: »

So to conclude this discussion
Everything is ok and after one-two months waiting for the permit i can work legally?
Right?
Thank you

Only if your spouse finds employment within 3 months after your arrival. And to be able to work you will have to submit this form with supporting documents listed in section 4 and wait for the application to be processed: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%20EU1.pdf/Files/Form%20EU1.pdf

If your spouse doesn't find employment within that timeframe you will not only not be allowed to work, but you will also lose your right reside in Ireland.

A safer bet would probably be for your spouse to come first, and for you only to join her once she has found employement.

Thanks, we will come together, worst case - she'll work in Zara or penney's for few weeks

Bob24

Henbabani wrote: »

Thanks, we will come together, worst case - she'll work in Zara or penney's for few weeks

To set the expectation right, she'll have to maintain employment at least until your application is fully finalised which in theory takes 6 months, as immigration authorities might call her employer at any time during these 6 months. But as far as you are concerned, as soon as they acknowledge reception of your application which should take 2 months you will get a temporary residence card which allows you to work while the application is being processed - you just need to make sure there is no messing around with her employment status during that time so that you can get you final residence card at the end.

LirW

OP, going back to your original question regarding house: How are you thinking of financing it?
Cash or mortgage? If it's the latter you might encounter a few problems along the way since you're a non EU-national.

Also have you ever been in Ireland on a longer term, beside a holiday?
I really don't wanna step on your feet there, you just seem a bit deluded of how living in Dublin actually is. Dublin is really expensive, also the Jobs you see, a few of these are not genuine (they are there to grab your data for agencies) and language jobs can have really dodgy contracts and a lot of it is call center work.
I know what I'm talking about, when I came here I had to deal with a few of these companies myself (I am not an English native either) and they are absolute scum, exploiting young qualified foreign people for monotonous work with bad pay and horrible contracts.
25k per head after Tax is very little for Dublin and you might find yourself struggling: you might get a mortgage a good while down the line but it won't buy you anything unless living outside and commuting is an option for you.

You both might have no ties in Ireland, you can be in for a huge shock there. Do your homework and do it well, it's easy to come here with high hopes and get into a very miserable rut fast.

Nonetheless, I wish you all the best!

Henbabani

Thank you, we save money for a year,part of our homework on Dublin, and we got almost 100k, so even when we take a mortgage i guess she will not "kill" us our income.
I've been in Dublin twice,for a holiday, to be honest- we don't have a better choice - in Israel even in a small city, 50 minutes drive from Tel Aviv, 2 BDR apartment can cost you 400-450k€, it's insane here.
Also, the cars in Israel very expensive, also the food in the supermarket, and the work hours are the highest in the OECD.
We work here at least 10-11 hours per day(if you wanna get a salary the will be honorable). I hope we'll get a good job, theres few in Microsoft, Facebook and google with incomes range between 50-70k, which is quite good isn't it?

Henbabani

The_Conductor wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you researched the other side of the equation yet - what your likely after tax income might be?

Its a reasonable enough assumption that the max you should be spending on accommodation should be less than 40% of your net after tax income.

The marginal tax rate on income over 34k is >50% (you hit the higher rate at a ridiculously low level in Ireland).

An idea of what sector you're working in- and what your expected job might be in Ireland- would be very helpful for posters (and might also give people an idea of what part of Dublin you'd be best looking at).

40% from out net income together? Or just from one of us?
As I understand your calculation you meant together.
Am I right?

Henbabani

LirW wrote: »

OP, going back to your original question regarding house: How are you thinking of financing it?
Cash or mortgage? If it's the latter you might encounter a few problems along the way since you're a non EU-national.

Also have you ever been in Ireland on a longer term, beside a holiday?
I really don't wanna step on your feet there, you just seem a bit deluded of how living in Dublin actually is. Dublin is really expensive, also the Jobs you see, a few of these are not genuine (they are there to grab your data for agencies) and language jobs can have really dodgy contracts and a lot of it is call center work.
I know what I'm talking about, when I came here I had to deal with a few of these companies myself (I am not an English native either) and they are absolute scum, exploiting young qualified foreign people for monotonous work with bad pay and horrible contracts.
25k per head after Tax is very little for Dublin and you might find yourself struggling: you might get a mortgage a good while down the line but it won't buy you anything unless living outside and commuting is an option for you.

You both might have no ties in Ireland, you can be in for a huge shock there. Do your homework and do it well, it's easy to come here with high hopes and get into a very miserable rut fast.

Nonetheless, I wish you all the best!

another thing, i made a budget
would like your opinion on it.
income(both of us together) : at least 3,600(27k per annum per person)
expenses : max 1200 rent
250 public transportation
200 bill ( including celluler and internet)
350 supermarket
200 medical insurance
300 other expenses as clothes, flights, rent a car for a weekend or just Ed Sheeran show
total : 2600
which means the range we can save is from at least 500 to 1000 every month, and it depends only on the lowest salary.
am i wrong?

Bob24

Depending on what is your standard for accommodation and how long a commute you accept, you might end up having to increase you accommodation budget by 200 or 300 euros.

The food budget probably involves shopping at a low cost supermarket.

For healthcare , your budget will only conver a fairly basic insurance if it is for 2 people. And note that even with insurance not all your expenses will be covered (the insurance is mostly for heavy procedures, but something like a GP visit will only be covered partly it not covered at all, and prescription medication won't be covered at all). And an other thing to take into account: health insurance is not mandatory (though probably recommended), and if you of you has a job with a good company, that company might pay for health insurance for both of you. You probably need to do mor research / ask on another forum to understand what you need depending on your expectations.

Henbabani

Bob24 wrote: »

Depending on what is your standard for accommodation and how long a commute you accept, you might end up having to increase you accommodation budget by 200 or 300 euros.

The food budget probably involves shopping at a low cost supermarket.

For healthcare , your budget will only conver a fairly basic insurance if it is for 2 people. And note that even with insurance not all your expenses will be covered (the insurance is mostly for heavy procedures, but something like a GP visit will only be covered partly it not covered at all, and prescription medication won't be covered at all). And an other thing to take into account: health insurance is not mandatory (though probably recommended), and if you of you has a job with a good company, that company might pay for health insurance for both of you. You probably need to do mor research / ask on another forum to understand what you need depending on your expectations.

Good morning,
i know that there's few companies who paid you the health insurance but i'm always think on the worst case.
about the accommodation - i think with a bit of luck we can get something nice for 1,200 or in the worst case we'll go outside of dublin to lucan or other suburb of dublin which is affordable.
about the supermarket - i have a friend who lived in Ireland for 2 years(in Maynooth) his expenses on supermarket is 150 for month, and he eating a way more than i do, so i guess 350 for 2 people even if its in Dublin, it will be enough.
other expenses will be dependes on our income, i actually think now about the basic expenses and not beyond.

LirW

Honestly, 1200 is very optimistic for a somewhat decent gaff. Especially it can take you a long time to find something, there is a massive shortage in Dublin where you view a property with hundred other people and the landlord gets to pick his favourite applicant.

3500 rentals all over the country is really low. It's a landlord's market.
Also getting a mortgage as a couple with you as a non-national might be a tricky one, especially if you're in the country for a relatively short period of time.

Personally I consider it a bit mad moving abroad with no real knowledge about how a country runs and wanting to buy a partly mortgaged property pretty much straight away. It's a burden after all that ties you to the place and if you realize Ireland doesn't work for you, that's bad.

Regarding the Jobs: when I came here I was someehat deluded about how easy I'll have it to find a good job, I've seen very similar language roles. I got invited to interviews, and the more I went along, the more I found out they announce to pay you a lot more than they actually do. One offer I had from a well-known multi national that had a VERY dodgy contract with no security and permanency and lower pay than originally announced. I turned the offer down because I'm not starting employment based on dishonesty.
But a lot of people can't afford to turn them down and it's either service jobs or this, which is only marginally better.

I really don't wanna discourage you, but before I moved here with my Irish partner who lived in Dublin all his life, I talked the same way and had a very rude awakening. Please don't take it personal.