Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 3

blinding

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]


I disagree

I'd argue that they have held Roscommon back in the last few years rather than advance them.

They took over a good team from Evans.

They should have won Connacht last year and this year be building on it.

This year they did better v Galway but the way Galway are carrying on, as we saw yesterday, I'm not sure how much that counts for.

Yesterday Roscommon went all out in the early minutes, got their goals but then ran out of ideas. The two very long range free kicks that were missed showed that.
Fair enough they improved in the second half but Mayo were there for the taking.

They have a great opportunity next week, let's see how smart they are.

Mayo are frigged, that's it. They are out of gas.

Note: McStay I don't mind, but because he needs to other guy to follow him that's were the problem is.

McHale is a bit of a Clown alright......McStay would probably need to lose that big fella if he ever wants to manage Mayo...after all those are the kind of big decisions you have to make to be a county manager of the likes of Mayo.....

flasher0030

yop wrote: »

We still survive, we've had the headstone carved for us in a lot of matches and not just this year. Hard to figure out if we should be relived we came from 7 down with a shell shock of a start or if we should be livid with the misses, maybe a bit of both.

First off, what a brilliant atmosphere to see the 3 Connacht teams up there, 65k people of all ages, we can count ourselves lucky that these lads have brought us to Croker for some many years over the last 3 decades, but for some of the Rossies and to a lesser extent the Galway lads these are rare enough occasions.

Not much I can say to add to what has been said, I called the bloody draw, I thought there was going to be ET, another replay is a little frustrating.
Keegan can really be the only Mayo man to stand out, the lack of performance from so many of the others is odd but then again can they all really not turn up again this day week?
Defence is playing a man down now each game, not one single time did Caff get ahead of a touch of the ball, he shipped 1-5 off his man yet he survived the full 70+ minutes. It really is down right frustrating that he isn't going to be getting any better and that leaving his there will ruin his confidence.

Clarke was poor enough on the kickouts, 2 of them cost us points. Why Boyle was replaced is head scratching. Midfield was way off the pace, AOS reverted to his poor performances, but he looks tired and rightly so, he was once again battered and hammered and was taken high on 2 occasions.
Our front 6 seem to have lost all idea of shot selection, really don't know what was going on with COC and Andy, could use the excuse wet ball, bad conditions etc, but thats not good enough.

Ref was down right as bad as I have seen, at least one blantant black, AOS taken neck high and that wasn't even a booking! Higgins a lucky boy again, could have been a red or a black.

Sideline have truly lost all idea of the right changes and tactics, Rochford looks like a rabbit in headlights and unless he wins the AI will be gone I'd say, last years AI keeper change will haunt him to the end of days. Bringing on 2 backs into the forwards, what does that do for Dillion, Kirby, Regan?


BUT, we are still there, still coming back from the brink of defeat, still not winning the games when they are been there to be won. Will the legs hold out, Harrison cramping wasn't great to see, a young player like him, that said, he was the only one.

Lets see what happens.

I hadn't thought of that. With the game there for the taking, he brought on Vaughan, Drake and Coen. Left Lee Keegan far too long in our full-back line. Took off Boyle unnecessarily it seems (unless there is something more to it). I kept an eye on Boyle going off and himself and Rochford had a little chat. Don’t know if there was anything in it, but Boyle didn’t seem happy.

Is this GPS thing some rumour. Is it that a player is allocated a certain distance, stamina etc from their training records, and that once they go above that level in a match, they are deemed surplus to requirements.

Farmer_3650

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]


I disagree

I'd argue that they have held Roscommon back in the last few years rather than advance them.

They took over a good team from Evans.

They should have won Connacht last year and this year be building on it.

This year they did better v Galway but the way Galway are carrying on, as we saw yesterday, I'm not sure how much that counts for.

Yesterday Roscommon went all out in the early minutes, got their goals but then ran out of ideas. The two very long range free kicks that were missed showed that.
Fair enough they improved in the second half but Mayo were there for the taking.

They have a great opportunity next week, let's see how smart they are.

Mayo are frigged, that's it. They are out of gas.

Note: McStay I don't mind, but because he needs to other guy to follow him that's were the problem is.

I disagree. The only way the Roscommon team was held back is when a lot of our players left Last year but that wasn't really his fault. He took over a good team from Evans, but a lot of them experienced players that were on that team are now gone since they didn't like mchale. A lot of work was put into the league in 2016 and Roscommon went into the championship being way to confident in themselves. That was a big mistake and they have learned from that this year. This year they put very little thought into the league and they were only focused on the championship.

As you said they are in a far better place than Mayo after that match. Mayo have had a match every week for how long now? Both teams made mistakes and overall, played poorly. I can't see Mayo being in great form for the next match so that is a huge advantage for us.

Shurimgreat

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

[/b]


I disagree

I'd argue that they have held Roscommon back in the last few years rather than advance them.

They took over a good team from Evans.

They should have won Connacht last year and this year be building on it.

This year they did better v Galway but the way Galway are carrying on, as we saw yesterday, I'm not sure how much that counts for.

Yesterday Roscommon went all out in the early minutes, got their goals but then ran out of ideas. The two very long range free kicks that were missed showed that.
Fair enough they improved in the second half but Mayo were there for the taking.

They have a great opportunity next week, let's see how smart they are.

Mayo are frigged, that's it. They are out of gas.

Note: McStay I don't mind, but because he needs to other guy to follow him that's were the problem is.

Evans did didly squat in the Championship. He was hopeless, they were beaten left right and centre.

McStay has led them to two Connacht finals, one Connacht title. Their first year in Division 1 was brilliant and it looks like they pretty much ignored the league to focus on the championship this year. And this after several defections and retirements from the camp. Its fair to say McStay has done a great job with Roscommon.

I'm getting tired of reading and hearing people saying things like "McGuinness, McStay, Harte, Gavin, blah blah are holding a team back". Its usually only said about the successful managers.

To say McStay is holding Roscommon back is utter nonsense.

charlie14

corny wrote: »

Not really. The likes of Ryan McHugh and Peter Harte play as supplementary defenders but their real value to the team is in driving forward. McMahon does it for Dublin to a degree. Others fill the spaces.

McHugh and Harte line out as defenders (similar to how Keegan has been used to date) with a forward as company.
The post I was referring too was the idea of starting Keegan as a forward where he would be the one being marker by an assigned defender whose job would be to defend rather than as now, him being in the company of a forward.
Who in general when losing the ball to their markers, are not as a rule particularly skilled defensively.

Oldtree

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yesterday Roscommon went all out in the early minutes, got their goals but then ran out of ideas.

I said roscommon were going to come put howling and they did. I was surprised that we didn't play much more defensively to combat that for the first while.

The roscommon plan seemed to be to have the center forward or half forward make a run toward the opposite wing the ball was coming up, getting a jump start on their marker. It worked twice then that was that but they kept trying it.

I thought that after limerick that our wides problem may have been dealt with but it appears that is not the case. Rochford does not play on the pitch so cannot be blamed for that. The wides cost us the win again.

Rochfords job is to steady the ship and I think the changes did just that, we got the draw after being 7 down in a championship quarter final!

That last long kick in with no-one there showed we are tired, I can only hope the team take steps to recover better this week and may do so as they didn't have to play extra time yesterday.

Roscommon looked vibrant taking full advantage of running up the middle what seemed to me to be very quick. That needed to be nullified a bit earlier imo.

PARlance

yop wrote: »

Bringing on 2 backs into the forwards, what does that do for Dillion, Kirby, Regan?

What does that say about that trio would be my question.

The only one I would consider is Dillion, despite his age and recent error against Cork. A calm head and can work himself into a good position to take a score. I've said enough about Regan and I think we're pushing it calling Kirby a forward... I don't think those 2 are viable options.

We only play with 2 pure forwards so while Drake & Coen came on, they were coming on for runners, not forwards per se, imo.

Ironically it would have been great to have Doherty to come on to offer something going forward but he is doing a great shift these days, lots of dirty, hard work.

padd b1975

2pm throw in for the replay.

mayopanda84

padd b1975 wrote: »

2pm throw in for the replay.

source?

yop

PARlance wrote: »

What does that say about that trio would be my question.

The only one I would consider is Dillion, despite his age and recent error against Cork. A calm head and can work himself into a good position to take a score. I've said enough about Regan and I think we're pushing it calling Kirby a forward... I don't think those 2 are viable options.

We only play with 2 pure forwards so while Drake & Coen came on, they were coming on for runners, not forwards per se, imo.

Ironically it would have been great to have Doherty to come on to offer something going forward but he is doing a great shift these days, lots of dirty, hard work.

Thats the other thing isn't it. That game screamed from Dillion. He has done it so many times for us in Croker, one single job, one point. Drake was never going to score a point.

Boland, Irwin, Nally all gone, there maybe reasons, but if you have to bring in backs to replace forwards then the selectors have a serious issue.

keane2097

What is the big dislike of McHale from again?

NabyLadistheman

yop wrote: »

Thats the other thing isn't it. That game screamed from Dillion. He has done it so many times for us in Croker, one single job, one point. Drake was never going to score a point.

Boland, Irwin, Nally all gone, there maybe reasons, but if you have to bring in backs to replace forwards then the selectors have a serious issue.

There in lies the point. Rochford is conservative & at that stage of the game not losing was more important than driving on for the win. He looked gutted & very down in his post match interview. A man under serious pressure in my eyes

padd b1975

mayopanda84 wrote: »

source?

A text from my sister.

Shurimgreat

keane2097 wrote: »

What is the big dislike of McHale from again?

Who knows. The criticism of him is more of the same old bullsh*t associated with Mayo football. We'd turn down the best of managers or coaches over nonsense. Its clear the McStay/McHale partnership works and McHale is a talented coach based on what he has done with Brigids and Roscommon.

But player power seems to rule in Mayo and that is why this bunch of players will never win an AI. They'd rather call the shots on a losing team than be a low key member of a winning one.

PARlance

keane2097 wrote: »

What is the big dislike of McHale from again?

It's just our way of balancing things out. The man has so much love for himself that it's needed.

ProudDUB

keane2097 wrote: »

What is the big dislike of McHale from again?

He used to have a column in the Western People. Over the years, he has made comments about Horan's Mayo teams that didn't go down well with the players or mgt team. Before the 2013 AI final, he called Andy Moran "unfit" and before the 2014 Connaught final, he called Mayo "past it". Stuff like that, has ticked people off over the years and marked his card, when it came to his being considered for the Mayo mgt gig himself.

Or at least that is my opinion of the brouhaha, as a neutral. Mayo folk will probably say something a lot harsher about him. They generally do, when one of their own doesn't sing from the same hymn sheet.

PARlance

yop wrote: »

Thats the other thing isn't it. That game screamed from Dillion. He has done it so many times for us in Croker, one single job, one point. Drake was never going to score a point.

Boland, Irwin, Nally all gone, there maybe reasons, but if you have to bring in backs to replace forwards then the selectors have a serious issue.

Pretty sure Boland & Nally were in the squad yesterday.

Would agree with Suarez, he's fairly conservative. We've 2 inside forwards, Loftus comes in for Andy. You have Aidan popping in their the odd time. Outside of that you're required to be a workhorse, physical player that can run and try not to do anything daft.

Boland is a luxury and I think Dillion was only brought on to help wind down the game vs Cork rather than to win it.

Shurimgreat

ProudDUB wrote: »

He used to have a column in the Western People. Over the years, he has made comments about Horan's Mayo teams that didn't go down well with the players or mgt team. Before the 2013 AI final, he called Andy Moran "unfit" and before the 2014 Connaught final, he called Mayo "past it". Stuff like that, has ticked people off over the years and marked his card, when it came to his being considered for the Mayo mgt gig himself.

Sounds like fairly honest criticisms of the team to me. To improve any team you have to be blunt about their weaknesses and ruthless in changing them. Unfortunately that will put a few noses out of joint with players who only want to be told how great they are.

Shurimgreat

PARlance wrote: »

It's just our way of balancing things out. The man has so much love for himself that it's needed.

In fairness he was a great player and has been a pretty good coach too, so he's probably entitled to like himself. Not hiring a guy because he loves himself seems a bit bizarre and probably would only happen with Mayo.

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

What is the big dislike of McHale from again?

It's my opinion that he is too "old school" for the modern game.

Was a great player and a real hero to us young lads growing up in the ’80s.

After the change brought in by Horan I reckon a lot of it would be undone by McHale.

More laps of the pitch and less s+c I reckon.

People who think we are missing something with not having him are very much of "the grass is always greener" mentality.

It a wonder why a lot of good players left the Roscommon setup since he became involved, can't be a coincidence.

Fr Tod Umptious

Shurimgreat wrote: »

In fairness he was a great player and has been a pretty good coach too, so he's probably entitled to like himself. Not hiring a guy because he loves himself seems a bit bizarre and probably would only happen with Mayo.

What exactly has he achieved as a coach ?

PARlance

Shurimgreat wrote: »

In fairness he was a great player and has been a pretty good coach too, so he's probably entitled to like himself. Not hiring a guy because he loves himself seems a bit bizarre and probably would only happen with Mayo.

I would try not to let it affect me if I was hiring him, but I'm not. On a personal level I don't like him all too much from the bits I see.
It was only last week when he proclaimed himself as the best coach in the game... I don't mind confidence at all, I just think it makes him look like a clown at times.

ethical

But didnt the great John Maughan love himself also!!!.......and he got the team to finals!

yop

Did anyone listen to the marty farty party after the game on the radio? Assuming it was a Rossie fan who wanted Lee Keegan to be highlighted on Sunday Game, that it had to stop the way he goes on bla bla bla, how the forehead let him continue with air time was beyond me.

Shurimgreat

ethical wrote: »

But didnt the great John Maughan love himself also!!!.......and he got the team to finals!

It seems its better to be knocked out in the first round of qualifiers so long as the coach hates himself. In fact if the coach likes what he sees in the mirror, he should be fired right away.

:rolleyes:

I'm beginning to think Mayo football is just one long running joke.

Blud

So that was bad yesterday, really bad. Completely disjointed performance, we really look like we're honing nowhere this year.

I think we need to shake things up a little next week. I'd probably leave Keegan on Smith even if it means him playing full back. That in turn would allow us to drop Cafferkey and start with Vaughan instead, which I think makes us a tighter team.

If Smith does go in full forward, then I'd put AOS on the edge of the square at the other end. That takes a second big man out of the middle of the pitch for Roscommon, and would mean we could maybe take Andy out of the starting team for Parsons.

Something like this

Clarke
Harrison
Keegan
Higgins as sweeper, was good yesterday
Durcan
Barrett
Boyle
SOS
Parsons
K McL
Doherty
DOC
Vaughan (to play in backs allowing Higgins sweep)
AOS
COC

Shurimgreat

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

What exactly has he achieved as a coach ?

Read my previous posts and stop being lazy.

km79

Tickets reduced by a fiver from the double header .......

Farmer_3650

km79 wrote: »

Tickets reduced by a fiver from the double header .......

Does that mean U16's are free?

Sweet Science

3 years ago Mayo had a minor who played full forward and looked like a senior in the making .

Is he gone altogether ?

seligehgit

keane2097 wrote: »

What is the big dislike of McHale from again?

No idea??

Oldtree

padd b1975 wrote: »

A text from my sister.

Your sister was right , confirmed for 2pm.

PARlance

Sweet Science wrote: »

3 years ago Mayo had a minor who played full forward and looked like a senior in the making .

Is he gone altogether ?

Liam Irwin, 4 years ago now. Scored an absolute cracker against the Rossies that year. Went on to win U21 last year.

He was involved in the senior squad this year but was dropped during the league. Wasn't included in the development panel. Bit found of the good life.

ethical

That comment on that Irwin lad is very unfair.He is an accomplished soccer player as well as a very skilfull gaelic player and would do a very good job for Mayo if he was treated fairly.He is a quiet lad that does what he is told and perhaps if he was a loud mouth he would be more thought of.He is still of the right age and should be encouraged to come back into the fold again.He has terrific natural talent,something you cannot coach into a player.

Oldtree

Clearys Qpark was full yesterday when I arrived, havn't seen that before even on an AI day. I just booked their Day Parking (9am - 6pm) for the 7th. Was €12 after the axa discount

Coillte_Bhoy

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Evans did didly squat in the Championship. He was hopeless, they were beaten left right and centre.

McStay has led them to two Connacht finals, one Connacht title. Their first year in Division 1 was brilliant and it looks like they pretty much ignored the league to focus on the championship this year. And this after several defections and retirements from the camp. Its fair to say McStay has done a great job with Roscommon.

I'm getting tired of reading and hearing people saying things like "McGuinness, McStay, Harte, Gavin, blah blah are holding a team back". Its usually only said about the successful managers.

To say McStay is holding Roscommon back is utter nonsense.

Come on, by beating New York, Sligo and Leitrim, any half decent manager would have done that. Im not slagging off Mc Stay but i hardly think the above is worthy of any particular praise

Coillte_Bhoy

Shurimgreat wrote: »

In fairness he was a great player and has been a pretty good coach too, so he's probably entitled to like himself. Not hiring a guy because he loves himself seems a bit bizarre and probably would only happen with Mayo.

What bull****, nobody said anything of the sort but hey keep making things up to suit your argument

Coillte_Bhoy

Anyone else notice Mc Stay constantly hassling the linesman and fourth official, i was directly behind him and he was at it all the time in their faces pointing out stuff after every incident. never noticed him at that before. McHale was very reserved, i was quite surprised at that tbh

keane2097

seligehgit wrote: »

No idea??

I think it was the bit about there being some bad blood because he had criticised a few of the players that I had heard before.

Fr Tod Umptious

Shurimgreat wrote: »

Read my previous posts and stop being lazy.

I'm not going through the thread to try and filter out what you have said.

He has been a coach on a team that has won a club All Ireland that's about all I can think of of any significance.

That is not worth much when the current Mayo manager was the manager of a team that won an club All Ireland.

MaroonAndGreen

Am I the only person here that thinks 2pm in Croke Park on Monday was a decision made with total disregard for fans? That replay does not need to be early on a Monday in Dublin, fans travelling from Connacht like.

Shurimgreat

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Come on, by beating New York, Sligo and Leitrim, any half decent manager would have done that. Im not slagging off Mc Stay but i hardly think the above is worthy of any particular praise

He won an AI with St. Brigids, a Connacht title with Roscommon beating a much fancied Galway team who everyone including on here said would beat them, brought Mayo u21s to an AI final, brought Roscommon to a Division 1 League semi final, their first in I don't know how long, almost beat the "great" Mayo team everyone lauds and should have beaten them. This with a squad that's lost key players in recent years, a very young side, and against a backdrop of significant criticism within Roscommon.

He's shown how to integrate and build a young team and that will be crucial in Mayo over the next few years. We are still relying on forwards who are either past it or can't kick a point to save their lives. We could also do with a few new defenders in the full back line.

I would rate McStay above any previous mayo manager we've had in recent years including Horan.

Fr Tod Umptious

keane2097 wrote: »

I think it was the bit about there being some bad blood because he had criticised a few of the players that I had heard before.

I recall way back in 2006 he was on Off The Ball the week after the All Ireland being very critical of players and management.

Which is all good and well except for he was part of the management team in 2004 which fared just as poorly.

franklyon

i would prefer it early to be honest. Tickets on sale now. Should have reduced them to 20 euro, a 5 euro reduction isn't great.

MaroonAndGreen

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm not going through the thread to try and filter out what you have said.

He has been a coach on a team that has won a club All Ireland that's about all I can think of of any significance.

That is not worth much when the current Mayo manager was the manager of a team that won an club All Ireland.

We can give out all we want about Rochford, Horan, McStay and every possible Mayo manager. But the honest truth is there are no good candidates within the county to manage Mayo so we should just get on with it. I've yet to see anyone on this thread offer a reasonable alternative to Rochford? (McStay isn't one btw that won't happen after how he was shafted). Not one name has been mentioned.

Shurimgreat

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm not going through the thread to try and filter out what you have said.

He has been a coach on a team that has won a club All Ireland that's about all I can think of of any significance.

That is not worth much when the current Mayo manager was the manager of a team that won an club All Ireland.

So you think Rochford is a better manager than McStay? On paper, Mayo should have a far better team than Roscommon. We've been told all week that Mayo should have enough for Roscommon with all their experience of Croke Park. And yet Mayo were lucky to come away with a draw against a team of youngsters. I think that answers the question. Your posts are becoming a bit farcical especially the one about McStay holding Roscommon back. Pure nonsense.

Coillte_Bhoy

Shurimgreat wrote: »

He won an AI with St. Brigids, a Connacht title with Roscommon beating a much fancied Galway team who everyone including on here said would beat them, brought Mayo u21s to an AI final, brought Roscommon to a Division 1 League semi final, their first in I don't know how long, almost beat the "great" Mayo team everyone lauds and should have beaten them. This with a squad that's lost key players in recent years, a very young side, and against a backdrop of significant criticism within Roscommon.

He's shown how to integrate and build a young team and that will be crucial in Mayo over the next few years. We are still relying on forwards who are either past it or can't kick a point to save their lives. We could also do with a few new defenders in the full back line.

I would rate McStay above any previous mayo manager we've had in recent years including Horan.

Im not slagging McStayoff at all, just pointing out that highlighting 'getting to 2 connacht finals isnt exactly a great achievement, thats all. Anyway we all know why he didnt get the Mayo job, nothing to do with his managerial ability.

PARlance

ethical wrote: »

That comment on that Irwin lad is very unfair.He is an accomplished soccer player as well as a very skilfull gaelic player and would do a very good job for Mayo if he was treated fairly.He is a quiet lad that does what he is told and perhaps if he was a loud mouth he would be more thought of.He is still of the right age and should be encouraged to come back into the fold again.He has terrific natural talent,something you cannot coach into a player.

I'm sure you'll get over the comment if you can dish things out like insinuating that you need to be a loud mouth to make the panel. It must be something if the mafia can't get him on the panel, let alone the team.

Extremely nice lad and a real talent.

Fr Tod Umptious

Shurimgreat wrote: »

He won an AI with St. Brigids, a Connacht title with Roscommon beating a much fancied Galway team who everyone including on here said would beat them, brought Mayo u21s to an AI final, brought Roscommon to a Division 1 League semi final, their first in I don't know how long, almost beat the "great" Mayo team everyone lauds and should have beaten them. This with a squad that's lost key players in recent years, a very young side, and against a backdrop of significant criticism within Roscommon.

He's shown how to integrate and build a young team and that will be crucial in Mayo over the next few years. We are still relying on forwards who are either past it or can't kick a point to save their lives. We could also do with a few new defenders in the full back line.

I would rate McStay above any previous mayo manager we've had in recent years including Horan.

Mayo have had other managers and coaches that have won All Ireland u21 titles.

Roscommon got 8 points in the 2016 league, the exact same as Mayo this year.

As for winning Connacht this year, just look at Galway yesterday, then win one game and then cannot follow it up.

You are grasping at straws.

Shurimgreat

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I recall way back in 2006 he was on Off The Ball the week after the All Ireland being very critical of players and management.

Which is all good and well except for he was part of the management team in 2004 which fared just as poorly.

So what McHale said in 2006 should prevent him from being the coach in 2017?

Would seriously have to question some of your opinions on the game.