Apple Athenry data centre

1641

Today's Sunday Times reports that Apple's site in Tuam has been advertised for sale in the US as a "ready to go data centre site".

Edit: Athenry

Gadgetman496

In Tuam?

Gadgetman496

1641 wrote: »

Today's Sunday Times reports that Apple's site in Tuam has been advertised for sale in the US as a "ready to go data centre site".

In Tuam?

1641

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

In Tuam?

Sorry - Athenry.:o

JJJackal

It is a ready to go data centre site now

threeball

JJJackal wrote: »

It is a ready to go data centre site now

Hardly. No electrical infrastructure to carry a data centre, no access roads built. It's a field with planning permission. Nothing more. Who's going to pay for the upgrading of the powerlines?

ronnie3585

Would love if they put a direct provision centre there now:)

sickening the protestors would be a reason enough for me to want to see a data Centre go ahead there now on top of the long list of other benefits.

Johnny Poor Lemonade

Johnny Poor Lemonade wrote: »

sickening the protestors would be a reason enough for me to want to see a data Centre go ahead there now on top of the long list of other benefits.

You're dead right!

Let's destroy an area of 500 acres of forest, put a glorified warehouse into the space that gives barely any employment and yet consumes the equivalent of 5-6 counties of electricity not to mention the impact on the nations emissions targets which will cost the state €600 million in fines from 2020 onwards

That'll learn 'em!

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're dead right!

Let's destroy an area of 500 acres of forest, put a glorified warehouse into the space that gives barely any employment and yet consumes the equivalent of 5-6 counties of electricity not to mention the impact on the nations emissions targets which will cost the state €600 million in fines from 2020 onwards

That'll learn 'em!

Forest. 500 acres of forest.

Have you been there?

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

Forest. 500 acres of forest.

Have you been there?

Have they cleared the pines, which is what satellite imagery shows last time I looked?

Stichy

Deleted User wrote: »

You're dead right!

Let's destroy an area of 500 acres of forest, put a glorified warehouse into the space that gives barely any employment and yet consumes the equivalent of 5-6 counties of electricity not to mention the impact on the nations emissions targets which will cost the state €600 million in fines from 2020 onwards

That'll learn 'em!

So lets never build anything anywhere outside of Dublin and have 500 acres of a gutted forest to look at, while everyone just moves to Dublin or commutes for hours. If a DC isn't built there it will be somewhere else in Ireland and how do you know how many jobs will be available? have you inside info? have you ever worked in DC's in any shape or form?

cnocbui

Stichy wrote: »

So lets never build anything anywhere outside of Dublin and have 500 acres of a gutted forest to look at, while everyone just moves to Dublin or commutes for hours. If a DC isn't built there it will be somewhere else in Ireland and how do you know how many jobs will be available? have you inside info? have you ever worked in DC's in any shape or form?

What are the advantages of building a data centre out in the middle of nowhere rather than say closer to Galway in an existing industrial park?

threeball

Stichy wrote: »

So lets never build anything anywhere outside of Dublin and have 500 acres of a gutted forest to look at, while everyone just moves to Dublin or commutes for hours. If a DC isn't built there it will be somewhere else in Ireland and how do you know how many jobs will be available? have you inside info? have you ever worked in DC's in any shape or form?

Perhaps you'd like to inform us how many jobs you expect to be created because all information available shows that its very little. Yes there is jobs in building it for a brief period but then what? If the amount of money the tax payer would have to supply to fund this was made available to local businesses and entrepreneurs the number of jobs would be 50 times what this thing will provide.

threeball

cnocbui wrote: »

What are the advantages of building a data centre out in the middle of nowhere rather than say closer to Galway in an existing industrial park?

Where it could then be connected to adjacent housing estates to provide heating. If it was done right they could build social housing and get their heat for free solving a pollution problem and a housing one but no, build it in the sticks with no infrastucture and vent millions of kw's into the atmosphere.

irishfire

Deleted User wrote:

Let's destroy an area of 500 acres of forest, put a glorified warehouse into the space that gives barely any employment and yet consumes the equivalent of 5-6 counties of electricity not to mention the impact on the nations emissions targets which will cost the state €600 million in fines from 2020 onwards

At an educated guess, Apple running a DC on that site would actually improve our emissions target progress.

As a result of the same messing with planning for grid infrastructure projects (the underground it's, etc), the west of Ireland is significantly constrained in what we can generate renewably. Kerry and Clare are generating a lot of wind because they have access to Tarbert 110kV station and Moneypoint's 2 nr. 400kV circuits up through the Midlands and to Dublin.

It's just not feasible to do any very large scale renewable in the West at the moment as we can't get the power to where it's needed. For example, our most Western 220kV line runs from Galway to Carrick on Shannon.

A DC in Athenry would at least be better placed to take up some of that, and the redundant infrastructure that would be built for it would provide another path towards the Midlands for some of that capacity to allow us to expand our renewable generation in the West and move towards ocean and tidal generation along with onshore wind. From what I know they were planning a lot of on-site renewables as well.

The fines are not, and were never going to be down to Apple running a DC in Athenry and if you think they were then you need to read a lot more into how Irish governments have prioritised environmental policies over the last few years.

cnocbui

Are there existing power lines to that site of sufficient capacity?

Mrs OBumble

ronnie3585 wrote: »

Would love if they put a direct provision centre there now:)

Would create a lot more employment for currently-unemployed locals that a data centre would.

irishfire

cnocbui wrote:

Are there existing power lines to that site of sufficient capacity?

A 220kV and 110kV run near the site. Given the scale of the planned facility I would imagine that there is a preference for a 220kV connection and substation which would be carried out as a grid reinforcement.

Whether you like it or not DC's are here to stay in Ireland, and with Microsoft building it's own generation capacity in Dublin already, a grid connection won't stop them or anyone else building in Athenry, but it's a golden opportunity for Ireland to make a real improvement to the grid in what we can achieve in terms of a wider move to renewables.

threeball

irishfire wrote: »

At an educated guess, Apple running a DC on that site would actually improve our emissions target progress.

As a result of the same messing with planning for grid infrastructure projects (the underground it's, etc), the west of Ireland is significantly constrained in what we can generate renewably. Kerry and Clare are generating a lot of wind because they have access to Tarbert 110kV station and Moneypoint's 2 nr. 400kV circuits up through the Midlands and to Dublin.

It's just not feasible to do any very large scale renewable in the West at the moment as we can't get the power to where it's needed. For example, our most Western 220kV line runs from Galway to Carrick on Shannon.

A DC in Athenry would at least be better placed to take up some of that, and the redundant infrastructure that would be built for it would provide another path towards the Midlands for some of that capacity to allow us to expand our renewable generation in the West and move towards ocean and tidal generation along with onshore wind. From what I know they were planning a lot of on-site renewables as well.

The fines are not, and were never going to be down to Apple running a DC in Athenry and if you think they were then you need to read a lot more into how Irish governments have prioritised environmental policies over the last few years.

Fines are based on carbon emissions and DC's are huge contributors to increasing carbon emissions. Any infrastructure needed to bring renewables west to east should be invested in but not for the benefit of a DC and certainly not one that does nothing with the energy it produces other than dump it. Any renewables produced on the west coast should be contributing towards reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and reducing emissions, not offsetting the next DC they decide to lob up.

grbear

cnocbui wrote: »

What are the advantages of building a data centre out in the middle of nowhere rather than say closer to Galway in an existing industrial park?

I'd hardly call Athenry the middle of nowhere. Its well connected in terms of infrastructure and the house prices in the area would seem to indicate its a place people want to live.
https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/new-report-shows-athenry-is-countys-most-expensive-town-for-property/

Going back to your question I'm assuming it just comes down to the fact its a lot cheaper to buy a large area of ground in Athenry than it would be in Galway City especially one with plenty of space for possible expansion in the future.

cnocbui

grbear wrote: »

I'd hardly call Athenry the middle of nowhere. Its well connected in terms of infrastructure and the house prices in the area would seem to indicate its a place people want to live.
https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/new-report-shows-athenry-is-countys-most-expensive-town-for-property/

Going back to your question I'm assuming it just comes down to the fact its a lot cheaper to buy a large area of ground in Athenry than it would be in Galway City especially one with plenty of space for possible expansion in the future.

Have you looked at the actual location for the proposed data centre? It's near Athenry, not in it. Lisheenkyle, I think it was. A greenfield site with only farms, a golf course and a national school nearby. Middle of nowhere, relatively speaking.

salmocab

grbear wrote: »

I'd hardly call Athenry the middle of nowhere. Its well connected in terms of infrastructure and the house prices in the area would seem to indicate its a place people want to live.
https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/new-report-shows-athenry-is-countys-most-expensive-town-for-property/

Going back to your question I'm assuming it just comes down to the fact its a lot cheaper to buy a large area of ground in Athenry than it would be in Galway City especially one with plenty of space for possible expansion in the future.

DCs have a list of boxes that need ticking for choosing a location access to power and fibre links being obvious but also they generally like weather that is reasonably stable, safe countries with little terrorism and stable politically. Land prices and access to a workforce also figure in it. There always exceptions to these but by and large it’s what they look for.

Doctors room ghost

cnocbui wrote: »

Have you looked at the actual location for the proposed data centre? It's near Athenry, not in it. Lisheenkyle, I think it was. A greenfield site with only farms, a golf course and a national school nearby. Middle of nowhere, relatively speaking.

It was derrydonnell and it’s definitely not the middle of nowhere.its less than 10 minutes from oranmore,less than 5 minutes from Athenry and less than 20 minutes from Galway city.
It is also within 5 minutes from the motorway connecting Galway to Dublin.

cnocbui

irishfire wrote: »

A 220kV and 110kV run near the site. Given the scale of the planned facility I would imagine that there is a preference for a 220kV connection and substation which would be carried out as a grid reinforcement.

Whether you like it or not DC's are here to stay in Ireland, and with Microsoft building it's own generation capacity in Dublin already, a grid connection won't stop them or anyone else building in Athenry, but it's a golden opportunity for Ireland to make a real improvement to the grid in what we can achieve in terms of a wider move to renewables.

How near? I presume we the tax payers would be required to foot the bill for a sub station and lines needed to make a connection.

Renewables are not stable. They have to be backed up by an equivalent capacity of reliable fossil fueled power generation, given that Irish people are terrified of nuclear. Had Apple gone ahead and that data centre reached maximum projected capacity, it would have increased Ireland's total Energy consumption by 8%. That is a lot of wind turbines that have to be put somewhere. It also means increasing the fossil fuel base generation capacity by 8%. All funded by we the tax payers, not Apple. That was one of the big original gripes about the whole project, Apple were making no commitment whatsoever to funding the creation of extra unreliable renewable capacity or reliable capacity. Nor were they proposing to pay a portion of the massive fines Ireland would have to pay the EU for actually increasing carbon emissions rather than reducing them. To say Apple was again envisaging taking the Irish tax payers for a ride is a massive understatement.

grbear

cnocbui wrote: »

Have you looked at the actual location for the proposed data centre? It's near Athenry, not in it. Lisheenkyle, I think it was. A greenfield site with only farms, a golf course and a national school nearby. Middle of nowhere, relatively speaking.

I get what you're saying but as someone whose homeplace is a candidate for the actual middle of nowhere (didn't show up on Google maps until they brought in Eircodes) that sounds positively metropolitan.

threeball

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

It was derrydonnell and it’s definitely not the middle of nowhere.its less than 10 minutes from oranmore,less than 5 minutes from Athenry and less than 20 minutes from Galway city.
It is also within 5 minutes from the motorway connecting Galway to Dublin.

All well and good but motorways don't bring power and don't bring fibre networks. I know the area very well and infrastructure wise its the middle of no where. The item at the bottom of any datacentres list would be a motorway and thats the only decent infrastructure close to it.

cnocbui

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

It was derrydonnell and it’s definitely not the middle of nowhere.its less than 10 minutes from oranmore,less than 5 minutes from Athenry and less than 20 minutes from Galway city.
It is also within 5 minutes from the motorway connecting Galway to Dublin.

irishfire

threeball wrote:

Fines are based on carbon emissions and DC's are huge contributors to increasing carbon emissions. Any infrastructure needed to bring renewables west to east should be invested in but not for the benefit of a DC and certainly not one that does nothing with the energy it produces other than dump it. Any renewables produced on the west coast should be contributing towards reducing our dependence on fossil fuels and reducing emissions, not offsetting the next DC they decide to lob up.

DC's that include their own renewable generation and can access a supply of grid renewables does not. This is all based on the overall offset, yes they may need baseline fossil at certain times, but that will be offset by what they generate, the same as any other large industrial facility that does on site generation, be that wind, solar or CHP.

cnocbui wrote:

How near? I presume we the tax payers would be required to foot the bill for a sub station and lines needed to make a connection.

Both are within 20km of the site at a glance, I don't have an exact measurement to hand. Regarding costs to the tax payer, absolutely not, the same as Intel in Leixlip, Apple in Cork and all other large sites they pay a capital contribution for the grid connection they require. If ESB or IDA negotiate on that price then that is there business, it's up to them to handle these issues for the state.

cnocbui wrote:

Renewables are not stable. They have to be backed up by an equivalent capacity of reliable fossil fueled power generation, given that Irish people are terrified of nuclear. Had Apple gone ahead and that data centre reached maximum projected capacity, it would have increased Ireland's total Energy consumption by 8%. That is a lot of wind turbines that have to be put somewhere. It also means increasing the fossil fuel base generation capacity by 8%. All funded by we the tax payers, not Apple. That was one of the big original gripes about the whole project, Apple were making no commitment whatsoever to funding the creation of extra unreliable renewable capacity or reliable capacity. Nor were they proposing to pay a portion of the massive fines Ireland would have to pay the EU for actually increasing carbon emissions rather than reducing them. To say Apple was again envisaging taking the Irish tax payers for a ride is a massive understatement.

As above, if they are generating on site, or better yet, invest in some form of storage, they will offset any emissions they create. Going by your assertions about fines should we retrospectively apply charges on large businesses/energy users because we have failed to decarbonise the grid at a fast enough rate?

The Microsoft generation I mentioned previously consists of about 16 gas fired units, are we not better placed to try and provide that capacity renewably through either our own grid or through European interconnection rather than have a private company building it to supplement our grid in the capital city?

threeball wrote:

All well and good but motorways don't bring power and don't bring fibre networks. I know the area very well and infrastructure wise its the middle of no where. The item at the bottom of any datacentres list would be a motorway and thats the only decent infrastructure close to it.

Yes, motorways bring fibre. TII have ducted almost if not all motorways and sell duct space. That particular site has access to 3 separate national fibre networks, all of which pass within 15km of the site, 2 actually pass within 5km. That grid connection would also carry a connection to the ESB national ring. They are also close to 2 major aggregation points on the Eir backbone network.

salmocab

cnocbui wrote: »

How near? I presume we the tax payers would be required to foot the bill for a sub station and lines needed to make a connection.

Renewables are not stable. They have to be backed up by an equivalent capacity of reliable fossil fueled power generation, given that Irish people are terrified of nuclear. Had Apple gone ahead and that data centre reached maximum projected capacity, it would have increased Ireland's total Energy consumption by 8%. That is a lot of wind turbines that have to be put somewhere. It also means increasing the fossil fuel base generation capacity by 8%. All funded by we the tax payers, not Apple. That was one of the big original gripes about the whole project, Apple were making no commitment whatsoever to funding the creation of extra unreliable renewable capacity or reliable capacity. Nor were they proposing to pay a portion of the massive fines Ireland would have to pay the EU for actually increasing carbon emissions rather than reducing them. To say Apple was again envisaging taking the Irish tax payers for a ride is a massive understatement.

Are you sure that it’s 8% of our total consumption? That seems extraordinarily high, given how many DCs we already have.