Schools Rugby 2017 2018 Thread SEE MOD WARNING POST #1773

omb0wyn5ehpij9

Rugby boi wrote: »

ANyone know when dates will be released

Anybody any idea on this? Specifically the Senior Cup final date?

Tomtomfoolery

Maybe ban or suspend one or two rather than close it permantently? Ruins it for rest of us...thanks

irishfan9

Who are the SCT captains?

Michaels - David Ryan
Blackrock - Liam Turner
Belvedere - David Hawkshaw
Gonzaga - Robbie Kidney
Newbridge - Cian Prendergast
Clongowes - ?
Roscrea - ?
Marys - ?
Terenure - ?
Gerards - ?
Andrews - ?
Fintans - ?
Bray - ?
Castleknock - ?

Granny15

Be interesting to see the odds on Paddy Power. My take:

Rock 2/1
Belvo 2/1
Clongwes 6/1
Michaels 7/1
Nure 10/1
Mary's 15/1
Roscrea 15/1
Knock 20/1
Gonzaga 25/1
Gerards 25/1
Newbridge 50/1
Pres Bray 75/1
Andrews 75/1
Fintans 100/1

irishfan9

Granny15 wrote: »

Be interesting to see the odds on Paddy Power. My take:

Rock 2/1
Belvo 2/1
Clongwes 6/1
Michaels 7/1
Nure 10/1
Mary's 15/1
Roscrea 15/1
Knock 20/1
Gonzaga 25/1
Gerards 25/1
Newbridge 50/1
Pres Bray 75/1
Andrews 75/1
Fintans 100/1

PP no longer offer odds afaik

Zzippy

Tomtomfoolery wrote: »

Maybe ban or suspend one or two rather than close it permantently? Ruins it for rest of us...thanks

If you have a problem with moderation PM the mod in question, do not backseat mod on thread. That is one of the forum rules.

This thread provides more of the bickering and potential libel than any other thread, and new posters constantly joining in with no regard for the posting rules. If it becomes too much of a nuisance to moderate it will be closed and discussion of schools rugby will be prohibited. It's your choice folks.

Noscrumnowin

Granny15 wrote: »

Be interesting to see the odds on Paddy Power. My take:

Rock 2/1
Belvo 2/1
Clongwes 6/1
Michaels 7/1
Nure 10/1
Mary's 15/1
Roscrea 15/1
Knock 20/1
Gonzaga 25/1
Gerards 25/1
Newbridge 50/1
Pres Bray 75/1
Andrews 75/1
Fintans 100/1

Schools approached bookmakers and no more betting on schools rugby

Quint2010

Although I don't know much about them I really can't see Terenure troubling MIchaels. Especially physically. In fact I've been struck as to how small Terenure teams of the past few years have been compared to Michaels, Blackrock and even St Mary's ( whom they managed to beat). The only thing I do know is that this team got to the final as juniors three years ago and were only beaten by a last minute penalty by Blackrock so who knows?

Purist98

Interesting draws, Michaels/Rock clear standout from Js, Rock are meant to be favourites for junior cup but Michaels beat them in preseason 25-22, should certainly be a great game.
Belvo/Zaga , Michaels/Nure and Gerards/Fintans should be the more intriguing games at senior level, interesting to see if Fintans can build on last year against a supposedly quite strong Gerards side with a few quality individuals, Zaga have a good team and should challenge Belvo but I'd imagine the likes of Hawkshaw and Byron will see them through, would expect Michaels to win reasonably comfortably with the side they have but it will be tricky against a solid Nure side, all in all should be a great cup season

The Lost Sheep

BDJW wrote: »

Anybody any idea on this? Specifically the Senior Cup final date?

With 6 nations finishing on Paddys Day. Senior schools probably the Sunday or Monday i guess??

Also anyone willing to make predictions for the 4 senior competitions like i did above

omb0wyn5ehpij9

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

With 6 nations finishing on Paddys Day. Senior schools probably the Sunday or Monday i guess??

I'm in London for the match on Paddys Day. If the final is the Monday, then I will come back on the Sunday for it, so I'm hoping it will be the Monday!

Granny15

Can't help but thinking if Gonzaga got a bit more street smart and used the tactics the Top schools use they might be in with a chance of beating Belvo. What do I mean by this? Well Rock were well known for targeting players in the Cup to nullify teams with stars in them. I can remember Drico in interviews documenting Leinster and Ireland tactics where his team have labelled threats on the opposing team and used targeting tactics to nullify that threat/star. Cynical? maybe. illegal? definitely not. I remember the days of Jennings in the Cup and speaking to a team mate at UCD from the Blackrock Team the year before at the time who specifically told me McGinty put Mary's jerseys on tackle bags with Jennos number on it and had the team target those tackle bags in groups like a pack of wild dogs whenever a whistle was sounded. It sharpens the appetite for victory and can break your opposition when targetting threats. Mary's with slightly more respectable coaches and staff use the tactics of die hard commitment for your teammates and focusing on out playing the opposition not the cynical cut throat tactics of targeting opposition weakness.

I just wonder whether Zaga have the sharpened appetites to clinch victory over a Top 2 team like Belvo. Speaking from experience we were targeted as being soft from middle class backgrounds specifically by Belvo who said we were unable to fight to victory whereas Belvo had the necessary toughness to break us every time because of their proximity to the real Dubliners in the inner city. At the very top the cut throat ability to win takes more direct and confrontational tactics to disrupt the opposition from playing. The running game against teams without cut throat defences can reap dividends as it did against the slower less mobile Roscrea team last year but I can't help but think Belvo will be razor sharp at the breakdown against the less hardened Zaga pack and this will decide the game. Hope I am wrong.

The Lost Sheep

Granny15 wrote: »

Can't help but thinking if Gonzaga got a bit more street smart and used the tactics the Top schools use they might be in with a chance of beating Belvo. What do I mean by this? Well Rock were well known for targeting players in the Cup to nullify teams with stars in them. I can remember Drico in interviews documenting Leinster and Ireland tactics where his team have labelled threats on the opposing team and used targeting tactics to nullify that threat/star. Cynical? maybe. illegal? definitely not. I remember the days of Jennings in the Cup and speaking to a team mate at UCD from the Blackrock Team the year before at the time who specifically told me McGinty put Mary's jerseys on tackle bags with Jennos number on it and had the team target those tackle bags in groups like a pack of wild dogs whenever a whistle was sounded. It sharpens the appetite for victory and can break your opposition when targetting threats. Mary's with slightly more respectable coaches and staff use the tactics of die hard commitment for your teammates and focusing on out playing the opposition not the cynical cut throat tactics of targeting opposition weakness.

I just wonder whether Zaga have the sharpened appetites to clinch victory over a Top 2 team like Belvo. Speaking from experience we were targeted as being soft from middle class backgrounds specifically by Belvo who said we were unable to fight to victory whereas Belvo had the necessary toughness to break us every time because of their proximity to the real Dubliners in the inner city. At the very top the cut throat ability to win takes more direct and confrontational tactics to disrupt the opposition from playing. The running game against teams without cut throat defences can reap dividends as it did against the slower less mobile Roscrea team last year but I can't help but think Belvo will be razor sharp at the breakdown against the less hardened Zaga pack and this will decide the game. Hope I am wrong.

I think that is reading far too much into things especially the middle class and innter city dubliners. Its a nonsense.

Granny15

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I think that is reading far too much into things especially the middle class and innter city dubliners. Its a nonsense.

The truth hurts sometimes.

prawnsambo

Granny15 wrote: »

The truth hurts sometimes.

I'm sure you'll get over it.

simplyafan

irishfan9 wrote: »

Who are the SCT captains?

Michaels - David Ryan
Blackrock - Liam Turner
Belvedere - David Hawkshaw
Gonzaga - Robbie Kidney
Newbridge - Cian Prendergast
Clongowes - ?
Roscrea - ?
Marys - ?
Terenure - ?
Gerards - ?
Andrews - ?
Fintans - ?
Bray - ?
Castleknock - ?

Gerard's captain.....Ethan Baxter

Castleknock captain.....Jamie McGaley

simplyafan

If I'm not mistaken David Hawkshaw, Ethan Baxter and Jamie McGaley all attended St Brigids National School in Castleknock.....3 Senior Team Captains.....not a bad record ....

FellasFellas

Pres Bray captain Mick O'Gara I think.

Tim Robbins

Granny15 wrote: »

Can't help but thinking if Gonzaga got a bit more street smart and used the tactics the Top schools use they might be in with a chance of beating Belvo. What do I mean by this? Well Rock were well known for targeting players in the Cup to nullify teams with stars in them. I can remember Drico in interviews documenting Leinster and Ireland tactics where his team have labelled threats on the opposing team and used targeting tactics to nullify that threat/star. Cynical? maybe. illegal? definitely not. I remember the days of Jennings in the Cup and speaking to a team mate at UCD from the Blackrock Team the year before at the time who specifically told me McGinty put Mary's jerseys on tackle bags with Jennos number on it and had the team target those tackle bags in groups like a pack of wild dogs whenever a whistle was sounded. It sharpens the appetite for victory and can break your opposition when targetting threats. Mary's with slightly more respectable coaches and staff use the tactics of die hard commitment for your teammates and focusing on out playing the opposition not the cynical cut throat tactics of targeting opposition weakness.

I just wonder whether Zaga have the sharpened appetites to clinch victory over a Top 2 team like Belvo. Speaking from experience we were targeted as being soft from middle class backgrounds specifically by Belvo who said we were unable to fight to victory whereas Belvo had the necessary toughness to break us every time because of their proximity to the real Dubliners in the inner city. At the very top the cut throat ability to win takes more direct and confrontational tactics to disrupt the opposition from playing. The running game against teams without cut throat defences can reap dividends as it did against the slower less mobile Roscrea team last year but I can't help but think Belvo will be razor sharp at the breakdown against the less hardened Zaga pack and this will decide the game. Hope I am wrong.

I like this. Could be a good Ross O'Carroll Kelly storyline. Theories about getting the edge in schools rugby.

Imhof Tank

Granny15 wrote: »

Can't help but thinking if Gonzaga got a bit more street smart and used the tactics the Top schools use they might be in with a chance of beating Belvo. What do I mean by this? Well Rock were well known for targeting players in the Cup to nullify teams with stars in them. I can remember Drico in interviews documenting Leinster and Ireland tactics where his team have labelled threats on the opposing team and used targeting tactics to nullify that threat/star. Cynical? maybe. illegal? definitely not. I remember the days of Jennings in the Cup and speaking to a team mate at UCD from the Blackrock Team the year before at the time who specifically told me McGinty put Mary's jerseys on tackle bags with Jennos number on it and had the team target those tackle bags in groups like a pack of wild dogs whenever a whistle was sounded. It sharpens the appetite for victory and can break your opposition when targetting threats. Mary's with slightly more respectable coaches and staff use the tactics of die hard commitment for your teammates and focusing on out playing the opposition not the cynical cut throat tactics of targeting opposition weakness.

I just wonder whether Zaga have the sharpened appetites to clinch victory over a Top 2 team like Belvo. Speaking from experience we were targeted as being soft from middle class backgrounds specifically by Belvo who said we were unable to fight to victory whereas Belvo had the necessary toughness to break us every time because of their proximity to the real Dubliners in the inner city. At the very top the cut throat ability to win takes more direct and confrontational tactics to disrupt the opposition from playing. The running game against teams without cut throat defences can reap dividends as it did against the slower less mobile Roscrea team last year but I can't help but think Belvo will be razor sharp at the breakdown against the less hardened Zaga pack and this will decide the game. Hope I am wrong.

A. HAVE YOU SEEN THE MOD WARNINGS IN THREAD?
B. IS THERE A REASON WHY YOU OBVIOUSLY WANT THIS THREAD LOCKED PERMANENTLY?

Granny15

Imhof Tank wrote: »

A. HAVE YOU SEEN THE MOD WARNINGS IN THREAD?
B. IS THERE A REASON WHY YOU OBVIOUSLY WANT THIS THREAD LOCKED PERMANENTLY?

It's all factual. Hopefully they see that it's not opinion and I can back it up with facts

Granny15

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I like this. Could be a good Ross O'Carroll Kelly storyline. Theories about getting the edge in schools rugby.

The margins of error/victory are subtle in top end sport. I seek to highlight some of them whereas some more sensitive people might not do this against their supposed superiors. I am happy this site is a forum where one can air these thoughts as long as they are factual

Iloveunion

simplyafan wrote: »

If I'm not mistaken David Hackshaw, Ethan Baxter and Jamie McGaley all attended St Brigids National School in Castleknock.....3 Senior Team Captains.....not a bad record ....

where you hear that from??

simplyafan

From my wife and she is not to be argued with on matters of rugby.....do you think she might be mistaken???

Iloveunion

simplyafan wrote: »

From my wife and she is not to be argued with on matters of rugby.....do you think she might be mistaken???

no not at all shes spot on and there is a lot of the Brigids boys starting sct for a lot of the schools like Castleknock Kh and so on!

also, nealry all of them started their rugby at coolmine which isn't too bad for them either!

simplyafan

Speaks volumes for St Brigids NS and Coolmine RC.....

simplyafan

Castleknock v Gerard's tomorrow....should be a great game and a close contest...Gerard's won the last meeting narrowly and at home in the League....Knock should be encouraged after two big performances against an imposing Roscrea ounfit.....

The Lost Sheep

simplyafan wrote: »

Speaks volumes for St Brigids NS and Coolmine RC.....

Yeah very much so.
For all work put in by schools at secondary level which has been great the work put in by mini rugby sections of clubs hasnt been praised enough. Like Bective Rangers minis section helped start Cathal Marsh, Rory O Loughlin playing. But thats rarely mentioned anywhere, and standards in schools wouldnt necessarily be as high if standards of mini rugby werent as high in the local clubs

Iloveunion

Both teams are strong this year but I feel maybe the cup draw could play with Castleknock heads and put them off? or maybe even make them hungrier? Either way, I would back Gerards they seem to have a winning attitude this year

simplyafan

I'm in the "make them hungrier camp" tho I suspect they don't need any more motivation than a win and another League final....many of the Castleknock team experienced League successs in 2014 as Juniors....two evenly matched sides and I'm gonna even things up by taking Castleknock.....any advances??

Iloveunion

any predictions on stand out players for that game?

last time if I remember correctly Cian Egginton and Cian Clancy really stood out for them and Cormac Foley and Ethan Baxter set the bar for Gerards!

simplyafan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yeah very much so.
For all work put in by schools at secondary level which has been great the work put in by mini rugby sections of clubs hasnt been praised enough. Like Bective Rangers minis section helped start Cathal Marsh, Rory O Loughlin playing. But thats rarely mentioned anywhere, and standards in schools wouldnt necessarily be as high if standards of mini rugby werent as high in the local clubs

Agree totally....any sport needs to engender interest at the earliest opportunity...mini rugby a great place to start .. it encourages confidence in and enthusiasm for a great game...

simplyafan

Iloveunion wrote: »

any predictions on stand out players for that game?

last time if I remember correctly Cian Egginton and Cian Clancy really stood out for them and Cormac Foley and Ethan Baxter set the bar for Gerards!

Both Cian's always put in a big shift...Adam Corcoran, Max Mellet and the two centres were outstanding against Roscrea but all 15 were very good on the day....I suspect these are two teams that have to perform well across the field rather than relying on 'game winners'..

D14Rugby

Iloveunion wrote: »

Both teams are strong this year but I feel maybe the cup draw could play with Castleknock heads and put them off? or maybe even make them hungrier? Either way, I would back Gerards they seem to have a winning attitude this year

If it doesn't make them hungrier then i dont know what will. Rock are the scalp you want in schools rugby, personally used to love the build up to playing them and would've loved to do it in the cup at donnybrook

Granny15

D14Rugby wrote: »

If it doesn't make them hungrier then i dont know what will. Rock are the scalp you want in schools rugby, personally used to love the build up to playing them and would've loved to do it in the cup at donnybrook

Like most teams if they can negate them up front that would be a good start.

Hold a solid defensive line next.

Disturb their ball at the breakdown.

Stop them from scoring early or in the first twenty minutes and you might have enough to rattle their cages.

Rock don't usually use their moves in the first round matches and use one off runners up the middle channel to test the resolve of defenders and open up space out wide. If they hold solid defensively and repel these attacks it might plant doubt in their minds.

Overly simplistic but if they can get these things right they can do what Belvo have done and beat them. If anyone can do it knock can even though its been a quiet fifty years for them.

Edit: and target some of their key men in key positions and gang tackle them.

irishfan9

Who are the SCT captains?

Michaels - David Ryan(Centre)
Blackrock - Liam Turner(Centre)
Belvedere - David Hawkshaw(Outhalf)
Gonzaga - Robbie Kidney(Backrow)
Newbridge - Cian Prendergast(2nd Row)
Clongowes - ?
Roscrea - ?
Marys - ?
Terenure - ?
Gerards - Ethan Baxter(Backrow/Hooker)
Andrews - ?
Fintans - ?
Bray - Mick O'Gara(Outhalf/Centre)
Castleknock - Jamie McGaley(Centre)

irishfan9

The 2 irish under 18 squads have a training camp between christmas and new years and will also play a game against each other on the 30th. Squads have been picked.

Granny15

irishfan9 wrote: »

The 2 irish under 18 squads have a training camp between christmas and new years and will also play a game against each other on the 30th. Squads have been picked.

The pre Cup irish schools squad usually has some missing players who perform well in the Cup.

It is the Cup which is the platform for the best players to showcase their talents and be subject to judgement by the crowd by the subjective whims of selectors and word of mouth from coaches/staff.

I would be more interested in seeing what the selection is post SCT this year.

The Lost Sheep

Granny15 wrote: »

The pre Cup irish schools squad usually has some missing players who perform well in the Cup.

It is the Cup which is the platform for the best players to showcase their talents not the subjective whims of selectors and word of mouth.

More those players havent shown anything or enough yet. Its the same with the clubs players and their finals and provincial cup competitions etc,

irishfan9

Granny15 wrote: »

The pre Cup irish schools squad usually has some missing players who perform well in the Cup.

It is the Cup which is the platform for the best players to showcase their talents and be subject to judgement by the crowd by the subjective whims of selectors and word of mouth from coaches/staff.

I would be more interested in seeing what the selection is post SCT this year.

so the pre cup squad differs from the post cup squad... I never would have guessed..

end of the day by the way the squad is selected by the coaches not the "crowd"

Granny15

irishfan9 wrote: »

so the pre cup squad differs from the post cup squad... I never would have guessed..

end of the day by the way the squad is selected by the coaches not the "crowd"

Who's to say the players perform in the trial matches the coach selects the players from? They might have an off day.

At the end of the day the Cup matches are performed in front of many people so it is also a transparent process where hiddent talent can't be overlooked if everyone is witness to it.

There are situations where word of mouth gets that talent its chance whereas it wouldn't get a chance in the Cup - Jordan Larmour for example/

Question is - is word of mouth a good transparent way of doing business/selection.

Zzippy

Mod warning: Granny 15 if you digress even one iota from pure rugby talk again in this thread you will be banned. Anything else, anything, will be regarded as further trolling and ignoring several mod warnings.

irishfan9

Granny15 wrote: »

Who's to say the matches the coach selects the players from they perform in?

At the end of the day the Cup matches are performed in front of many people so it is also a transparent process where hiddent talent can't be overlooked.

There are situations where word of mouth gets that talent its chance whereas it wouldn't get a chance in the Cup - Jordan Larmour.

Question is - is word of mouth a good transparent way of doing business/selection.

I'm not sure what Jordan Larmour has to do with anything, but not going to engage further.

The Lost Sheep

Granny15 wrote: »

Who's to say the matches the coach selects the players from they perform in?

At the end of the day the Cup matches are performed in front of many people so it is also a transparent process where hiddent talent can't be overlooked.

There are situations where word of mouth gets that talent its chance whereas it wouldn't get a chance in the Cup - Jordan Larmour.

Question is - is word of mouth a good transparent way of doing business/selection.

Your idea around this is nonsense. Word of mouth has nothing to do with the selection of players for national squads
Larmour and others in smaller schools get a chance from being selected by their school to go to provincial camps and then get looked at their when they wont be seen as much in the main cup competitions.
The screening process is completely transparent.

Granny15

irishfan9 wrote: »

I'm not sure what Jordan Larmour has to do with anything, but not going to engage further.

He wouldn't have gotten a great run out at Cup time whereas players like Rob Kearney who used the Cup as his platform for selection and being fasttracked to the Leinster team got a run of games to showcase his talent through to the final.

irishfan9

Granny15 wrote: »

He wouldn't have gotten a great run out at Cup time whereas players like Rob Kearney who used the Cup as his platform for selection and being fasttracked to the Leinster team got a run of games to showcase his talent through to the final.

Larmour made the ireland under-18 team due to his performances as a under-17 for St. Andrews in the cup. So you are wrong there.

Granny15

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Your idea around this is nonsense. Word of mouth has nothing to do with the selection of players for national squads
Larmour and others in smaller schools get a chance from being selected by their school to go to provincial camps and then get looked at their when they wont be seen as much in the main cup competitions.
The screening process is completely transparent.

Word of mouth has a lot to do with it. Always has done.

You're naïve to say otherwise.

Bridge93

Jordan Larmour played in 2 senior cups including a semi final appearance. He would've played three cups but for injury while on rep duty

irishfan9

I'll be interested to see if Ryan Baird plays Ireland u18 or Ireland u19.

FellasFellas

irishfan9 wrote: »

I'll be interested to see if Ryan Baird plays Ireland u18 or Ireland u19.

I'd say Ireland U18 to get international experience in the International Series, is FIRA done anymore or not? U19 got a good 3 tests last year with Japan and France x2 however so as you say will be interesting to keep an eye on.