Schools Rugby 2017 2018 Thread SEE MOD WARNING POST #1773

MDunne14

Rugby boi wrote: »

Didn’t he play Ireland schools last year?

Ireland schools? He was on the bench for Leinster schools and didn’t make Leinster 19s ..he’s a solid club/school player not as good as your suggesting though

Noscrumnowin

irishfan9 wrote: »

Clarkson is big time prospect.

have starting team?

1 Mescal
2 Mion
3 Clarkson (motm)
4 Stapleton
5 O’Brien (standout)
6 Dixon
7 Loscher (standout)
8 Burke
9 Barron
10 Tarrant (standout)
11 Donnelly
12 Maher
13 Turner
14 David Fitzgibbon
15 Stephen Madigan
Liam McMahon also came on and looked very exciting with the ball.

The Lost Sheep

Dromore High beat Foyle College in Ulster Senior Schools 2nd round 17-0 last night
While today
Portadown 35 Limavady Grammar 5, Larne Grammar 0 Lurgan College 14, Grosvenor Grammar 37 Antrim Grammar 7

D14Rugby

RBAI 24 vs PBC 29 in a game played in Terenure last night

irishfan9

D14Rugby wrote: »

RBAI 24 vs PBC 29 in a game played in Terenure last night

say that was a cracker

1bluewombat

Josh Pyper (4th year) for Pres is also a fine player.

D14Rugby

irishfan9 wrote: »

say that was a cracker

say it was, i missed it unfortunately, think it was on the grass pitch if anyone's interested in that, think that only really matters in Leinster though.

irishfan9

1bluewombat wrote: »

Josh Pyper (4th year) for Pres is also a fine player.

heard he was one to watch

1bluewombat

Have been told most of the pres league games where very close. Infact top 4 in that league ended with a 2 or 3 point difference in games between them. Very little in it. Pres played a lot of rotation in the league, have not put out there best 15 in a game yet.

Rugby boi

1bluewombat wrote: »

Have been told most of the pres league games where very close. Infact top 4 in that league ended with a 2 or 3 point difference in games between them. Very little in it. Pres played a lot of rotation in the league, have not put out there best 15 in a game yet.

Please don’t tell me you are insinuating that pres will do well in the cup...

irishfan9

Rugby boi wrote: »

Please don’t tell me you are insinuating that pres will do well in the cup...

they have a chance to win their 1st game.. thats it

1bluewombat

irishfan9 wrote: »

they have a chance to win their 1st game.. thats it

Agree. Have a chance in 1st game. Then luck after that. Small pool,
And to their credit have used a squad for the league, no matter the capability of players.

Hands Like Flippers

Rockwell tore Campbell up today. Not sure of score but saw 3 tries in last 10 mins.

Munchkins jct beat rock last week.

Are Belvo jct good this year?

irishfan9

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Rockwell tore Campbell up today. Not sure of score but saw 3 tries in last 10 mins.

Munchkins jct beat rock last week.

Are Belvo jct good this year?

yes.

munchins jct also beat michael recently

Rugby boi

These would be my predictions for first round
Belvo to beat zaga by 3-5 with zaga putting it up to them
Michaels to beat nure by around 10 points , really think Michaels can do something this year
Roscrea to comfortably beat a qualifier 20+
Gerrads to destroy Fintans , there just too good 15 points
Knock to put it up against rock but rock winning by 5-10 points
Newbridge to beat pres by 5-10 points
Clongowes to play badly but beat qualifier by around 10 points
Mary’s to beat Andrew’s but be a very tight game maybe 3-7 points
Overall I think the nure Michaels , rock knock and belvo zaga games will be the standouts

Noscrumnowin

Rugby boi wrote: »

These would be my predictions for first round
Belvo to beat zaga by 3-5 with zaga putting it up to them
Michaels to beat nure by around 10 points , really think Michaels can do something this year
Roscrea to comfortably beat a qualifier 20+
Gerrads to destroy Fintans , there just too good 15 points
Knock to put it up against rock but rock winning by 5-10 points
Newbridge to beat pres by 5-10 points
Clongowes to play badly but beat qualifier by around 10 points
Mary’s to beat Andrew’s but be a very tight game maybe 3-7 points
Overall I think the nure Michaels , rock knock and belvo zaga games will be the standouts

It’s a shame the Gonzaga, Belvo game isn’t on tv really

irishfan9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMMiY9H93LM

thats some try by O'Donovan, he is a big boy.

The skinny prop

Word is there could be a legal case this week against the Leinster Branch which could throw the Bank of Ireland Senior Cup into disarray.

Coaches, players and their parents in one school were briefed this weekend.

The case will centre around two regulations, 8.3 and 8.6 of the Leinster Branch Schools Regulations.

Regulation 8.6 is the 20 month rule that says you have to be in a school for 20 months before you can play in the Senior Cup and 8.3 says that repeat leaving cert students are not allowed play Senior Cup.

You can get exemptions from 8.3 and 8.6 and the school applied for 10 exemptions this year and every one was refused. They then called in the lawyers to pour over the applications and regulations and they have identified two gaping holes in the procedure.

Interestingly the Schools handbook and regulations which were on the Leinster Branch website have been removed recently.

The first big loophole discovered centres around two similarly named committees, the Schools Committee that has representatives from various schools and Schools Competition Committee that has independent members from outside the schools community that deal with all disputes and issues relating to the competitions.

It all centres on Regulation 7.5 which provides

“a school may apply to the Schools Competition Committee to seek clearance for a player, who is otherwise ineligible to play …”.

It appears that when all schools applied for an exemption the Leinster Branch sent the paperwork to the wrong committee, the Schools Committee that has no authority to either grant or refuse an exemption.

So now all applications granted or refused will now be up in the air and schools that think they have an exemption don’t have one because it was granted by the wrong committee.

The second big loophole relates to regulation 8.3 of the Leinster Branch Schools Committee regulations that say that in line with IRFU policy that repeat leaving cert students are not allowed play except in exceptional circumstances.

However the IRFU policy issued on Feb 18, 2009 is “in exceptional circumstances …… players repeating their Leaving Certificate should be ineligible” whereas the Schools Committee adopted the complete opposite to the IRFU policy “in exceptional circumstances ……players repeating their Leaving Certificate should be eligible).”

Therefore the IRFU policy is that only in exceptional circumstances should repeat Leaving Certificate Students be ineligible or prevented from playing.

It looks like the first round of the Senior Cup will be played in the Four Gold Mines as The Phoenix calls it.

irishfan9

yeah somehow i'm not worried.

urbanchick

The skinny prop wrote: »

Word is there could be a legal case this week against the Leinster Branch which could throw the Bank of Ireland Senior Cup into disarray.

Coaches, players and their parents in one school were briefed this weekend.

The case will centre around two regulations, 8.3 and 8.6 of the Leinster Branch Schools Regulations.

Regulation 8.6 is the 20 month rule that says you have to be in a school for 20 months before you can play in the Senior Cup and 8.3 says that repeat leaving cert students are not allowed play Senior Cup.

You can get exemptions from 8.3 and 8.6 and the school applied for 10 exemptions this year and every one was refused. They then called in the lawyers to pour over the applications and regulations and they have identified two gaping holes in the procedure.

Interestingly the Schools handbook and regulations which were on the Leinster Branch website have been removed recently.

The first big loophole discovered centres around two similarly named committees, the Schools Committee that has representatives from various schools and Schools Competition Committee that has independent members from outside the schools community that deal with all disputes and issues relating to the competitions.

It all centres on Regulation 7.5 which provides

“a school may apply to the Schools Competition Committee to seek clearance for a player, who is otherwise ineligible to play …”.

It appears that when all schools applied for an exemption the Leinster Branch sent the paperwork to the wrong committee, the Schools Committee that has no authority to either grant or refuse an exemption.

So now all applications granted or refused will now be up in the air and schools that think they have an exemption don’t have one because it was granted by the wrong committee.

The second big loophole relates to regulation 8.3 of the Leinster Branch Schools Committee regulations that say that in line with IRFU policy that repeat leaving cert students are not allowed play except in exceptional circumstances.

However the IRFU policy issued on Feb 18, 2009 is “in exceptional circumstances …… players repeating their Leaving Certificate should be ineligible” whereas the Schools Committee adopted the complete opposite to the IRFU policy “in exceptional circumstances ……players repeating their Leaving Certificate should be eligible).”

Therefore the IRFU policy is that only in exceptional circumstances should repeat Leaving Certificate Students be ineligible or prevented from playing.

It looks like the first round of the Senior Cup will be played in the Four Gold Mines as The Phoenix calls it.

Mmmmm let’s play guess the school!!!!!!

omb0wyn5ehpij9

I was reading over the weekend that they have set the Leinster Senior Cup final as March 18th

FrannoFan

it's an invitational tournament at the end of the day as far as i know. Very easy not "invite" someone who doesn't want to follow the competition rules.

Losty Dublin

A case like this is highly unlikely to even get a hearing in court, let alone be found to warrant the postponement of the Cup. If such a flaw was found, no one single team or individual can claim to have be singled out and disadvantaged over another if this has applied to all teams and over a number of years, bar this alleged instance. Given the amount of barristers and solicitors that sit on the various LB committees, it's unlikely that such a loophole and such an errenous practice has existed and yet never been spotted or challenged. And trust me, there are legal threats thrown at the branch on a daily basis; one more frivolous one won't scare them.

Noscrumnowin

The skinny prop wrote: »

Word is there could be a legal case this week against the Leinster Branch which could throw the Bank of Ireland Senior Cup into disarray.

Coaches, players and their parents in one school were briefed this weekend.

The case will centre around two regulations, 8.3 and 8.6 of the Leinster Branch Schools Regulations.

Regulation 8.6 is the 20 month rule that says you have to be in a school for 20 months before you can play in the Senior Cup and 8.3 says that repeat leaving cert students are not allowed play Senior Cup.

You can get exemptions from 8.3 and 8.6 and the school applied for 10 exemptions this year and every one was refused. They then called in the lawyers to pour over the applications and regulations and they have identified two gaping holes in the procedure.

Interestingly the Schools handbook and regulations which were on the Leinster Branch website have been removed recently.

The first big loophole discovered centres around two similarly named committees, the Schools Committee that has representatives from various schools and Schools Competition Committee that has independent members from outside the schools community that deal with all disputes and issues relating to the competitions.

It all centres on Regulation 7.5 which provides

“a school may apply to the Schools Competition Committee to seek clearance for a player, who is otherwise ineligible to play …”.

It appears that when all schools applied for an exemption the Leinster Branch sent the paperwork to the wrong committee, the Schools Committee that has no authority to either grant or refuse an exemption.

So now all applications granted or refused will now be up in the air and schools that think they have an exemption don’t have one because it was granted by the wrong committee.

The second big loophole relates to regulation 8.3 of the Leinster Branch Schools Committee regulations that say that in line with IRFU policy that repeat leaving cert students are not allowed play except in exceptional circumstances.

However the IRFU policy issued on Feb 18, 2009 is “in exceptional circumstances …… players repeating their Leaving Certificate should be ineligible” whereas the Schools Committee adopted the complete opposite to the IRFU policy “in exceptional circumstances ……players repeating their Leaving Certificate should be eligible).”

Therefore the IRFU policy is that only in exceptional circumstances should repeat Leaving Certificate Students be ineligible or prevented from playing.

It looks like the first round of the Senior Cup will be played in the Four Gold Mines as The Phoenix calls it.

Is it Roscrea I heard a they had a few players that are currently ineligible?

thebaz

Noscrumnowin wrote: »

Is it Roscrea I heard a they had a few players that are currently ineligible?

the rules are ther for a reason makes the competition fairer for all schools, bringing lawyers in looking for loopholes really defeats the purpose of a SCHOOLS competition. Whoever that school is. Hopefully this is not true.

Noscrumnowin

thebaz wrote: »

the rules are ther for a reason makes the competition fairer for all schools, bringing lawyers in looking for loopholes really defeats the purpose of a SCHOOLS competition. Whoever that school is. Hopefully this is not true.

Why should a lad be forced to not play rugby completely unreasonable.

thebaz

Noscrumnowin wrote: »

Why should a lad be forced to not play rugby completely unreasonable.

never said banning playing , but every cometition must have rules - I just think smaller and non-private schools need some protection from ther best players been taken - for an open playing schools competition -

The Lost Sheep

The skinny prop wrote: »

Word is there could be a legal case this week against the Leinster Branch which could throw the Bank of Ireland Senior Cup into disarray.

Coaches, players and their parents in one school were briefed this weekend.

The case will centre around two regulations, 8.3 and 8.6 of the Leinster Branch Schools Regulations.

Regulation 8.6 is the 20 month rule that says you have to be in a school for 20 months before you can play in the Senior Cup and 8.3 says that repeat leaving cert students are not allowed play Senior Cup.

You can get exemptions from 8.3 and 8.6 and the school applied for 10 exemptions this year and every one was refused. They then called in the lawyers to pour over the applications and regulations and they have identified two gaping holes in the procedure.

Interestingly the Schools handbook and regulations which were on the Leinster Branch website have been removed recently.

The first big loophole discovered centres around two similarly named committees, the Schools Committee that has representatives from various schools and Schools Competition Committee that has independent members from outside the schools community that deal with all disputes and issues relating to the competitions.

It all centres on Regulation 7.5 which provides

“a school may apply to the Schools Competition Committee to seek clearance for a player, who is otherwise ineligible to play …”.

It appears that when all schools applied for an exemption the Leinster Branch sent the paperwork to the wrong committee, the Schools Committee that has no authority to either grant or refuse an exemption.

So now all applications granted or refused will now be up in the air and schools that think they have an exemption don’t have one because it was granted by the wrong committee.

The second big loophole relates to regulation 8.3 of the Leinster Branch Schools Committee regulations that say that in line with IRFU policy that repeat leaving cert students are not allowed play except in exceptional circumstances.

However the IRFU policy issued on Feb 18, 2009 is “in exceptional circumstances …… players repeating their Leaving Certificate should be ineligible” whereas the Schools Committee adopted the complete opposite to the IRFU policy “in exceptional circumstances ……players repeating their Leaving Certificate should be eligible).”

Therefore the IRFU policy is that only in exceptional circumstances should repeat Leaving Certificate Students be ineligible or prevented from playing.

It looks like the first round of the Senior Cup will be played in the Four Gold Mines as The Phoenix calls it.

I highly doubt this is the case. The 20 month rule is disputed but a good thing and hasnt there always been ban on people repeating playing but with exceptions.
The gamesmasters handbook wasnt removed from the Leinster website recently. It hasnt been there for the whole season or at least there were only older versions of it and not this seasons version of the handbook.

BDJW wrote: »

I was reading over the weekend that they have set the Leinster Senior Cup final as March 18th

Senior cup final should be before that....;) schools senior final is 18th.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

A case like this is highly unlikely to even get a hearing in court, let alone be found to warrant the postponement of the Cup. If such a flaw was found, no one single team or individual can claim to have be singled out and disadvantaged over another if this has applied to all teams and over a number of years, bar this alleged instance. Given the amount of barristers and solicitors that sit on the various LB committees, it's unlikely that such a loophole and such an errenous practice has existed and yet never been spotted or challenged. And trust me, there are legal threats thrown at the branch on a daily basis; one more frivolous one won't scare them.

+1

Noscrumnowin wrote: »

Why should a lad be forced to not play rugby completely unreasonable.

No-one will not be stopped from playing rugby. If not able to play in school they can easily play in/with a club.

irishfan9

Noscrumnowin wrote: »

Why should a lad be forced to not play rugby completely unreasonable.

because certain schools abused it.. the lad can always stick with his club or play 2xv

Bridge93

I get why the rule was brought in and would back its enforcement. But like everything there is no perfect solution. There will be those hard done by. Not all kids moving will be affiliated to a club they can go back and join if it's a school to school move.
The standard isn't near as high either so those being shoehorned into a club as they can't play schools may be disillusioned if they're a very good player.
They're also not being allowed to play with their friends which can work against keeping them in the sport.

There's a risk of losing these kids to the sport if they're affected by the rule. Is the rule a Cup rule or is it a schools rugby rule? If it's a Cup rule the kid could always play 2nds.

it's not as easy for some to say they can just go play club rugby. Not all can or will want to and you lose them to the game. But in the interest of the greater good the rule is necessary I feel

irishfan9

its absolutely necessary.

The Lost Sheep

Bridge93 wrote: »

I get why the rule was brought in and would back its enforcement. But like everything there is no perfect solution. There will be those hard done by. Not all kids moving will be affiliated to a club they can go back and join if it's a school to school move.
The standard isn't near as high either so those being shoehorned into a club as they can't play schools may be disillusioned if they're a very good player.
They're also not being allowed to play with their friends which can work against keeping them in the sport.

There's a risk of losing these kids to the sport if they're affected by the rule. Is the rule a Cup rule or is it a schools rugby rule? If it's a Cup rule the kid could always play 2nds.

it's not as easy for some to say they can just go play club rugby. Not all can or will want to and you lose them to the game. But in the interest of the greater good the rule is necessary I feel

Not all will be affiliated with a club but they should and for all to play rugby there should be a connection in some manner to a club. The standard can be as high in some clubs as a lot of schools. You will see that especially in Munster and some Leinster clubs. If kid is near 18 years of age they can go on and play adult rugby which will be a higher standard than schools 1sts xv level.

Bridge93

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Not all will be affiliated with a club but they should and for all to play rugby there should be a connection in some manner to a club. The standard can be as high in some clubs as a lot of schools. You will see that especially in Munster and some Leinster clubs. If kid is near 18 years of age they can go on and play adult rugby which will be a higher standard than schools 1sts xv level.

I'd agree. The two systems should really be working closer together. Blackrock RFC last year went into the school looking to actively talk to players about their movements after school. Apparently it's had an effect and the Rock U20s were much improved this year? Less jumping straight to Lansdowne and UCD
More of that is needed as well as continuing links with the clubs where many started as minis.

irishfan9

Bridge93 wrote: »

I'd agree. The two systems should really be working closer together. Blackrock RFC last year went into the school looking to actively talk to players about their movements after school. Apparently it's had an effect and the Rock U20s were much improved this year? Less jumping straight to Lansdowne and UCD
More of that is needed as well as continuing links with the clubs where many started as minis.

the best players from that rock side are nearly all at ucd or dufc.

altho blackrock managed to get alan francis and stephen mclaughlin.

The Lost Sheep

Bridge93 wrote: »

I'd agree. The two systems should really be working closer together. Blackrock RFC last year went into the school looking to actively talk to players about their movements after school. Apparently it's had an effect and the Rock U20s were much improved this year? Less jumping straight to Lansdowne and UCD
More of that is needed as well as continuing links with the clubs where many started as minis.

Yeah. Take for example Bective Rangers. Based in Donnybrook they obviously will lose a lot to Michaels who're beside them but how many go back there? Probably very few.
Its crazy that Clontarf, Marys, Bective, Seapoint are only senior city clubs that field at under 18 level.

Like i would have competition at under 18/19 even 20 level for those in 6th year of school and 1st year/2nd year college who are not playing regular rugby in 20s be that 20s ail or j1/2/3/4

irishfan9

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yeah. Take for example Bective Rangers. Based in Donnybrook they obviously will lose a lot to Michaels who're beside them but how many go back there? Probably very few.
Its crazy that Clontarf, Marys, Bective, Seapoint are only senior city clubs that field at under 18 level.

Like i would have competition at under 18/19 even 20 level for those in 6th year of school and 1st year/2nd year college who are not playing regular rugby in 20s be that 20s ail or j1/2/3/4

there isnt a demand for it.

The Lost Sheep

irishfan9 wrote: »

there isnt a demand for it.

Shame as while clubs actively look for players to play 20s thats generally the guys on schools 1st xv. More should be done to help get those on other sides playing in clubs and you shouldnt go your entire teen years only playing for your school

FrannoFan

The 20 month rule is rarely enforced. Schools apply for exemption and it is usually granted. It is really there to stop the whole sale recruitment that seemed to be creeping into the game.

On players moving on to club rugby after school some are better than others. Cadtleknock/belvo who don't have a feeder primary school tend to be better and getting lads playing after school.

Schools that have a feeder primary school are in a different boat-the kids there were introduced to the game in school so don't have any ties. Clubs need to work harder to encourage players to join and not just go seeking the sct starters for their 20's teams

The Lost Sheep

FrannoFan wrote: »

The 20 month rule is rarely enforced. Schools apply for exemption and it is usually granted. It is really there to stop the whole sale recruitment that seemed to be creeping into the game.

On players moving on to club rugby after school some are better than others. Cadtleknock/belvo who don't have a feeder primary school tend to be better and getting lads playing after school.

Schools that have a feeder primary school are in a different boat-the kids there were introduced to the game in school so don't have any ties. Clubs need to work harder to encourage players to join and not just go seeking the sct starters for their 20's teams

Its two ways. Clubs need to work harder and not just aim for the guys who started on the school 1st xvs but the schools need to facilitate kids playing club rugby in the secondary school years. Like Brian O Driscoll played in Clontarf in between playing junior and senior schools cup rugby. There should be more like that and every year first years should be playing cup/short league competitions for clubs and same for other years especially non exam years.

Squidgy Black

I think with a bit of creativity around fixtures. the Leinster board could definitely work something out to have lads playing clubs as well as still being part of the school setup, with the exception of 6th years and 3rd years due to exams.

There's no reason a young lad in 2nd/4th/5th year couldn't do one week club, one week schools with a bit of planning.

As someone who didn't go to a rugby playing school but was in one of the more competitive GAA schools over the Northside, we regularly trained both school and clubs with some co-ordination between the school and the clubs. And these were all division A teams and a school team that won Dublin and Leinster titles.

I know the training plans and S&C involved for cup teams is massive now, but is there a need for it to be like that?

irishfan9

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I think with a bit of creativity around fixtures. the Leinster board could definitely work something out to have lads playing clubs as well as still being part of the school setup, with the exception of 6th years and 3rd years due to exams.

There's no reason a young lad in 2nd/4th/5th year couldn't do one week club, one week schools with a bit of planning.

As someone who didn't go to a rugby playing school but was in one of the more competitive GAA schools over the Northside, we regularly trained both school and clubs with some co-ordination between the school and the clubs. And these were all division A teams and a school team that won Dublin and Leinster titles.

I know the training plans and S&C involved for cup teams is massive now, but is there a need for it to be like that?

Yes that s&c and training is how leinster is producing players at a much better rate than other provinces

The Lost Sheep

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I think with a bit of creativity around fixtures. the Leinster board could definitely work something out to have lads playing clubs as well as still being part of the school setup, with the exception of 6th years and 3rd years due to exams.

There's no reason a young lad in 2nd/4th/5th year couldn't do one week club, one week schools with a bit of planning.

As someone who didn't go to a rugby playing school but was in one of the more competitive GAA schools over the Northside, we regularly trained both school and clubs with some co-ordination between the school and the clubs. And these were all division A teams and a school team that won Dublin and Leinster titles.

I know the training plans and S&C involved for cup teams is massive now, but is there a need for it to be like that?

It wouldnt even have to be that creative. It works well in Connacht though schools there by and large dont play any games on weekends or play that many games against schools outside the province. The schools play midweek and clubs play weekends. so you have a 15 year old in the Jes/Bish in Galway. They play Junior schools cup/league games mid week then play with NUIG, Galwegians or Corinthians under 15/16 at the weekend.
There isnt a need for the training plans/S&C to be as high as it is but when one goes to one level the rest will follow.

Tixel

The rule isn’t the problem, the inconsistency of its implementation seems to be causing a lot of frustration. The schools committee seem to be shooting themselves in the foot here.

Fully agree that schools need to loosen their grip and allow clubs access to players at weekends.

Noscrumnowin

Bridge93 wrote: »

I'd agree. The two systems should really be working closer together. Blackrock RFC last year went into the school looking to actively talk to players about their movements after school. Apparently it's had an effect and the Rock U20s were much improved this year? Less jumping straight to Lansdowne and UCD
More of that is needed as well as continuing links with the clubs where many started as minis.

A lot of lads from previous years Blackrock Sct’s we’re going to Mary’s as Peter Smith was involved but now that Steve Lamb is heavily involved in the SCT and stradbrook it will re-establish that route for Rock players. Even from last years SCT you have Stephen McLoughlin and Alan Francis starting for the senior firsts.

Rugby boi

The skinny prop wrote: »

Word is there could be a legal case this week against the Leinster Branch which could throw the Bank of Ireland Senior Cup into disarray.

Coaches, players and their parents in one school were briefed this weekend.

The case will centre around two regulations, 8.3 and 8.6 of the Leinster Branch Schools Regulations.

Regulation 8.6 is the 20 month rule that says you have to be in a school for 20 months before you can play in the Senior Cup and 8.3 says that repeat leaving cert students are not allowed play Senior Cup.

You can get exemptions from 8.3 and 8.6 and the school applied for 10 exemptions this year and every one was refused. They then called in the lawyers to pour over the applications and regulations and they have identified two gaping holes in the procedure.

Interestingly the Schools handbook and regulations which were on the Leinster Branch website have been removed recently.

The first big loophole discovered centres around two similarly named committees, the Schools Committee that has representatives from various schools and Schools Competition Committee that has independent members from outside the schools community that deal with all disputes and issues relating to the competitions.

It all centres on Regulation 7.5 which provides

“a school may apply to the Schools Competition Committee to seek clearance for a player, who is otherwise ineligible to play …”.

It appears that when all schools applied for an exemption the Leinster Branch sent the paperwork to the wrong committee, the Schools Committee that has no authority to either grant or refuse an exemption.

So now all applications granted or refused will now be up in the air and schools that think they have an exemption don’t have one because it was granted by the wrong committee.

The second big loophole relates to regulation 8.3 of the Leinster Branch Schools Committee regulations that say that in line with IRFU policy that repeat leaving cert students are not allowed play except in exceptional circumstances.

However the IRFU policy issued on Feb 18, 2009 is “in exceptional circumstances …… players repeating their Leaving Certificate should be ineligible” whereas the Schools Committee adopted the complete opposite to the IRFU policy “in exceptional circumstances ……players repeating their Leaving Certificate should be eligible).”

Therefore the IRFU policy is that only in exceptional circumstances should repeat Leaving Certificate Students be ineligible or prevented from playing.

It looks like the first round of the Senior Cup will be played in the Four Gold Mines as The Phoenix calls it.

To say that it could throw the competition into disarray is too far id presume

Radioheader

thebaz wrote: »

never said banning playing , but every cometition must have rules - I just think smaller and non-private schools need some protection from ther best players been taken - for an open playing schools competition -

I fully agree that the 20 month rule should apply if a player moves from a rugby playing school in one province to a rugby playing school in the same province

But it makes no sense to me to apply the rule if the player is moving from a non-rugby playing school.

thebaz

Radioheader wrote: »

I fully agree that the 20 month rule should apply if a player moves from a rugby playing school in one province to a rugby playing school in the same province

But it makes no sense to me to apply the rule if the player is moving from a non-rugby playing school.

sort of agree with you - in most genuine cases yes, but if a school or schools is doing it quite frequently i'd be suspect - will give private boarding schools in particular a greater advantage - do you want a scholarship system like American football high school? , me i don't.

The skinny prop

This is about 10 talented ambitious young lads who moved from non rugby day schools to a boarding school for 5th and 6th year and the Leinster branch said to all 10 it doesn’t matter how hard you train, how talented you are, or how committed you are you will never represent your school at the highest level. Senior seconds is good enough for you and the only reason is that their parents decided ( or could only afford to) to send them to a boarding School in 5th year.
To deny those 10 lads that ambition and sense achievement is simply wrong and it could lead to a lack of fulfilment, disappointment and discouragement.
The Leinster branch should be encouraging young schoolboys to be ambitious , to achieve , and to reach their full potential instead of keeping them down and telling them senior seconds is good enough for you.
Shameful really.

The Lost Sheep

Radioheader wrote: »

I fully agree that the 20 month rule should apply if a player moves from a rugby playing school in one province to a rugby playing school in the same province

But it makes no sense to me to apply the rule if the player is moving from a non-rugby playing school.

How does it not make sense. It takes them away from a rugby club who will have much less resources/more limited resources. Even Cistercian Roscrea which was so close to closing has enough teams at senior schools level for 3/3.5 teams able to field 3 teams at senior level at the same time.

The skinny prop wrote: »

This is about 10 talented ambitious young lads who moved from non rugby day schools to a boarding school for 5th and 6th year and the Leinster branch said to all 10 it doesn’t matter how hard you train, how talented you are, or how committed you are you will never represent your school at the highest level. Senior seconds is good enough for you and the only reason is that their parents decided ( or could only afford to) to send them to a boarding School in 5th year.
To deny those 10 lads that ambition and sense achievement is simply wrong and it could lead to a lack of fulfilment, disappointment and discouragement.
The Leinster branch should be encouraging young schoolboys to be ambitious , to achieve , and to reach their full potential instead of keeping them down and telling them senior seconds is good enough for you.
Shameful really.

These 10 lads wont be denied rugby though.. This ruling is in place to protect the other strands of rugby ie smaller schools and the youths(clubs) game

Radioheader

thebaz wrote: »

sort of agree with you - in most genuine cases yes, but if a school or schools is doing it quite frequently i'd be suspect - will give private boarding schools in particular a greater advantage - do you want a scholarship system like American football high school? , me i don't.

We are talking Ireland here. The sort of money sloshing around means we will never end up in an American football type situation. I agree though, you would never want a situation where more than 4 or 5 on a team were in receipt of partial scholarships.

Why would it give private boarding schools an advantage over private day schools? Surely the bigger private day schools have just as much money if not more to dole out in rugby scholarships?

Also the issue is more acute for boarding schools, because some parents can not afford to send their kids for the full six years.