Schools Rugby 2017 2018 Thread SEE MOD WARNING POST #1773

Rugby boi

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I highly doubt that. Not exactly so strong that they can leave guys on sideline etc and how do you know cup team well in advance anyway. So much can change

I mean like you would expect most if not all sct teams to be picked by now and starting team being played in the last run out before big day

simplyafan

Ally Bren 92 wrote: »

Mary's should beat Andrews but in order for them to reach a semi they will have to beat the likes of belvo,rock,Michaels,clongowes which would be a big upset

I suspect they will start as favs against Andrews and not winning would be a huge surprise....last 4 would probably require quarter final opposition outside of the teams you mention above....they looked like a motivated outfit today but were far from impressive...

simplyafan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I highly doubt that. Not exactly so strong that they can leave guys on sideline etc and how do you know cup team well in advance anyway. So much can change

Hardly well in advance with a week and change to go...I would have thought that most teams involved in League have a clear picture of Cup Team and have had for quite a while...

simplyafan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I highly doubt that. Not exactly so strong that they can leave guys on sideline etc and how do you know cup team well in advance anyway. So much can change

Hardly well in advance with a week and change to go...I would have thought that most teams involved in League have a clear picture of Cup Team and have had for quite a while...

Rugby boi

simplyafan wrote: »

Their Cup team have played a lot together this season...last 2 games have been a challenge with minor injuries and the odd flu...I suspect we will all see the best 15 start Cup and a good bench....We always knew it will take a huge performance from Knock to put it up to Rock and realistically nothing has changed....single score losses against 'Top 6' opposition in last two games is not a disaster.. of course wins would have been a big boost but the lads need to know and understand they are not out of their depth, they need to play as well as they can and it's all on the day!!!

Any idea of the possible starting team?

simplyafan

Rugby boi wrote: »

Any idea of the possible starting team?

Don't imagine it will be much different to starting 15 against Roscrea or Gerards...

6elieve

Cosgrave to play 13 in Cup for Michaels. Be a huge test for him considering it’s La Grue and Dardis he will mainly be marking, players with 2 years of Leinster underage experience.

D14Rugby

Muligatawney wrote: »

So anyone except Newpark? Are they no cop?

Not bad by Newpark standards, pretty good for by those standards actually, just the other three are the next level up. They could surprise me though but personally I cant see it.

Ally Bren 92

6elieve wrote: »

Cosgrave to play 13 in Cup for Michaels. Be a huge test for him considering it’s La Grue and Dardis he will mainly be marking, players with 2 years of Leinster underage experience.

Where you'd get this source from?

6elieve

Ally Bren 92 wrote: »

Where you'd get this source from?

Injury to a key member of the Michaels backline has lead to a massive shift up. They could perhaps now pay the price of playing very similar starting XV’s throughout the whole of preseason

FellasFellas

Is Dave Ryan not playing 13? I had heard that the outhalf is out for the cup.

Ally Bren 92

thought la grue for terenure was out for season with shoulder injury

simplyafan

Ally Bren 92 wrote: »

thought la grue for terenure was out for season with shoulder injury

Not at all....he played a full game against Knock last week....

Granny15

allaboutrugby wrote: »

24 - 24. Clongowes were down 17 nil but fought back. Had a bad start but once they started playing well looked like a serious team.

RBAI are good opposition this is a good result for Clongowes. Could be looking at the semis again or even a final in the Cup this year. Slipping under the radar nicely again.

Granny15

6elieve wrote: »

Injury to a key member of the Michaels backline has lead to a massive shift up. They could perhaps now pay the price of playing very similar starting XV’s throughout the whole of preseason

Depth is a problem for us as is size. I wouldn’t expect that much from this team this year.

Ally Bren 92

Granny15 wrote: »

Depth is a problem for us as is size. I wouldn’t expect that much from this team this year.

They are the favourites.they only lost to PBC this year.beaten every team in Leinster

6elieve

FellasFellas wrote: »

Is Dave Ryan not playing 13? I had heard that the outhalf is out for the cup.

12 moving to 10
13 moving to 12

Granny15

Ally Bren 92 wrote: »

They are the favourites.they only lost to PBC this year.beaten every team in Leinster

They’re certainly not favorites in my mind. Rock Belvo and Clongowes are ahead of us. As numerous posters have said on here before friendlies count for nothing come Cup time especially for us.

6elieve

Granny15 wrote: »

They’re certainly not favorites in my mind. Rock Belvo and Clongowes are ahead of us. As numerous posters have said on here before friendlies count for nothing come Cup time especially for us.

They have 12 leinster reps

Straw Hats

An old dear I've never met before just stopped me on the street and told me "Michaels are going to land the cup this year".

Noscrumnowin

Straw Hats wrote: »

Blackrock favourites for me in Leinster. Michaels biggest threat. Belvo have been tops since Werahiko took over but they have a lot to live up to.

Your own words....

6elieve

clsmooth wrote: »

How are Marys going this year?

Have two of the most exciting backs in schools rugby
Shields at 15 and Conway at 14
Shields scoring 16 tries in 10 pre season matches
Certainly ones to look out for come cup time

The Lost Sheep

6elieve wrote: »

Have two of the most exciting backs in schools rugby
Shields at 15 and Conway at 14
Shields scoring 16 tries in 10 pre season matches
Certainly ones to look out for come cup time

How again did Marys friendlies record go?
Should they enter the league soon considering their record?

Ayewserious

Nure could suprise Michael's.

FrannoFan

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

How again did Marys friendlies record go?
Should they enter the league soon considering their record?

They probably should look at entering the league but I can't see that happening while Rodney is at the helm.
If they did it would balance the league groups nicely. as it is you can have more away games than home as a pool is a team short. (You only play teams once so your games are split 2 home 3 away or 3 home 2 away. All luck of the draw- for anyone unfamiliar )
Not sure what you do with the "extra" cup space. Perhaps a play off between beaten vinnie Murray semi finalists or else reduce vinnie Murray to 1 spot and allow the 2 5th place leave teams into cup.

The Lost Sheep

FrannoFan wrote: »

They probably should look at entering the league but I can't see that happening while Rodney is at the helm.
If they did it would balance the league groups nicely. as it is you can have more away games than home as a pool is a team short. (You only play teams once so your games are split 2 home 3 away or 3 home 2 away. All luck of the draw- for anyone unfamiliar )
Not sure what you do with the "extra" cup space. Perhaps a play off between beaten vinnie Murray semi finalists or else reduce vinnie Murray to 1 spot and allow the 2 5th place leave teams into cup.

Fair enough. Shame school wouldnt as would work well in their interests in short and long term IMO.
Would help school to do better in cup as well and give an extra focus for players and wouldnt be just all about the cup
Not that its going to happen but if it did would be better to have playoff between vinnie murray semi finalists and not give more teams in league an automatic cup spot

6elieve

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

How again did Marys friendlies record go?
Should they enter the league soon considering their record?

Mary’s beat Belvo, Zaga, PBC Cork in preseason, narrow losses to michaels and Terenure. Lost to CBC cork 24-20. Apart from that beat everyone else.

Too good of a side for the league
Beat Pres Bray one of the better league sides 31 0 a month or two ago, the gulf in class was alarming. They’d walk the league every season

6elieve

FrannoFan wrote: »

They probably should look at entering the league but I can't see that happening while Rodney is at the helm.
If they did it would balance the league groups nicely. as it is you can have more away games than home as a pool is a team short. (You only play teams once so your games are split 2 home 3 away or 3 home 2 away. All luck of the draw- for anyone unfamiliar )
Not sure what you do with the "extra" cup space. Perhaps a play off between beaten vinnie Murray semi finalists or else reduce vinnie Murray to 1 spot and allow the 2 5th place leave teams into cup.

Rodney O’Donnell is not at the helm of Mary’s Rugby and has not been for quite some time.... he’s just gamesmaster at the school

RugbyLover123

6elieve wrote: »

Too good of a side for the league
Beat Pres Bray one of the better league sides 31 0 a month or two ago, the gulf in class was alarming. They’d walk the league every season

Well that's just not true. I'm pretty sure Knock would've felt the same a few years back but they've yet to win the senior league. And the first year they entered the league, who did they beat in the first round of the cup?
The reality is Mary's have been poor for years and shouldn't really be looking down on the league like that.
As for walking it, that's laughable. I'm fairly certain Roscrea, Newbridge, Kilkenny and Knock have all produced better teams then Mary's over the last 10 years.

The Lost Sheep

6elieve wrote: »

Mary’s beat Belvo, Zaga, PBC Cork in preseason, narrow losses to michaels and Terenure. Lost to CBC cork 24-20. Apart from that beat everyone else.

Too good of a side for the league
Beat Pres Bray one of the better league sides 31 0 a month or two ago, the gulf in class was alarming. They’d walk the league every season

Not too sure they are too good for the league. Their record in the senior sch cup over the last few years doesnt suggest that. How long since theyve won more than 2 games in the cup and made a semi. Having a league campaign of proper competitive matches and actually having to qualify for the cup would strengthen them considerably. In no way would they "walk the league every season"!

6elieve

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Not too sure they are too good for the league. Their record in the senior sch cup over the last few years doesnt suggest that. How long since theyve won more than 2 games in the cup and made a semi. Having a league campaign of proper competitive matches and actually having to qualify for the cup would strengthen them considerably. In no way would they "walk the league every season"!

Current marys senior team has beaten every league opposition they’ve played this season with ease.
Don’t think a league opposition has come within 15 points of the junior side either this year .

FrannoFan

6elieve wrote: »

Current marys senior team has beaten every league opposition they’ve played this season with ease.
Don’t think a league opposition has come within 15 points of the junior side either this year .

Marys have been knocked out of the cup by league opposition plenty of times in recent years. i don't expect them to be knocked out by Andrews this year but whenever they have come up against a League team that made at least the semi final they have lost. To think they would walk it every year is laughable. If that was the case they should enter it and win it for a few years and build confidence for a cup run-league winners often make semi final stage of cup something Marys haven't done in a decade.

winning freindlys against league teams doesn't count for much. League teams are playing competitive games mid week so if playing marys on the weekend it won't be a full strength or fully focused side.

Rodney might not be director of rugby but as gamesmaster still heavily involved and would have a lot of say.

There would only be positive benefits for marys entering the league. Can not understand why they wouldn't

6elieve

FrannoFan wrote: »

Marys have been knocked out of the cup by league opposition plenty of times in recent years. i don't expect them to be knocked out by Andrews this year but whenever they have come up against a League team that made at least the semi final they have lost. To think they would walk it every year is laughable. If that was the case they should enter it and win it for a few years and build confidence for a cup run-league winners often make semi final stage of cup something Marys haven't done in a decade.

winning freindlys against league teams doesn't count for much. League teams are playing competitive games mid week so if playing marys on the weekend it won't be a full strength or fully focused side.

Rodney might not be director of rugby but as gamesmaster still heavily involved and would have a lot of say.

There would only be positive benefits for marys entering the league. Can not understand why they wouldn't

St Marys have reached 2 semi finals and 1 final in the last 10 years actually

FrannoFan

6elieve wrote: »

St Marys have reached 2 semi finals and 1 final in the last 10 years actually

hey made the final 10 years ago with jack mcgrath year

that is the last solid impact at cup time i can recall.

what years did they make semis?

6elieve

FrannoFan wrote: »

hey made the final 10 years ago with jack mcgrath year

that is the last solid impact at cup time i can recall.

what years did they make semis?

09 lost to nure
10 lost to clongowes

irishfan9

they haven done much since 2010.

Bridge93

So while it's fair to say that Mary's made 2 semis and a final in the last 10 years it's equally fair to say they haven't gone further than one game in the last 7 years

simplyafan

6elieve wrote: »

Current marys senior team has beaten every league opposition they’ve played this season with ease.
Don’t think a league opposition has come within 15 points of the junior side either this year .

Saw Mary's play on Saturday and maybe it was a well below par performance but based on that game they would not be run away winners of the league...The facts are that they narrowly beat Castleknock (12-5) and in terms of how Castleknock can play this was a 3 put of 10 performance, Knock had a perfectly good try disallowed and they missed a vey kickable penalty.... Mary's missed very little and did not threaten much beyond the scores they got. As I say this was possibly a well below par performance from Marys.....A move into the League could be a good game building opportunity as well as providing a chance to win a few more competitive matches every year...

themont85

The idea that Mary’s would “walk the League” is nonsense.

Look at the inter pro team selections. They have underperformed many league schools in recent years.

Look at their SCT record. In 2011 they beat Kilkenny before losing to Michaels. In 2012 and 2013 they lost, and lost quite badly, to Castleknock and CBC. In 2014 they barely squeaked by a fairly average Gerard’s team before getting knocked out. In 2015 they were unlucky versus Michael to be fair, but Michaels had their own issues. 20 years ago I would never have said St Mary’s versus St Michaels would have the former huge underdogs though, which says a lot. In 2016 they lost to Terenure but in 2017 they beat Newbridge well.

I wouldn’t say any of the League teams that beat were outstanding. They certainly weren’t of the strength of Roscrea in those years. They haven’t beaten a fellow “Big 6” school.

The reality is St Mary’s is a school of 450. Without really brilliant coaching and a laser rugby focus they are just going to be a league school from now on. Because that’s what most league schools are. They’re sub 500 pupil schools who struggle with depth or having the time the likes of Clongowes have to devout to rugby.

Living on past glories does nobody any favours.

C3PO

Would it make sense to have a league system that all schools play in with qualifiers playing quarters, semis and then a final similar to Champions Cup?

irishfan9

C3PO wrote: »

Would it make sense to have a league system that all schools play in with qualifiers playing quarters, semis and then a final similar to Champions Cup?

maybe but it wont happen

Bridge93

C3PO wrote: »

Would it make sense to have a league system that all schools play in with qualifiers playing quarters, semis and then a final similar to Champions Cup?

I can't see it. Part of the appeal as I see it is it gives those in it a chance of silverware. Throw Rock/Michaels etc in and it's just the cup by another name. The format you suggest could be a good idea if you were to include a few schools just below the current league.

Might also be seen to devalue the actual cup if you included everyone. Don't know the mindset in the other 'Big 6' but in Rock the idea of the season all building to one game added massively to the appeal of cup season. The cup was the be all and end all. That might be different in other schools who don't have the luxury of Rocks success.

Would allow less room for the games with the big schools from other provinces and countries too which were always highlights of the year, especially away games.

All speculation on my part too. If you did include them, the above might not be true and could be good. Maybe the Rocks etc might actually enjoy the extra guaranteed competitive games once they actually have them.

stellenbosch

themont85 wrote: »

The idea that Mary’s would “walk the League” is nonsense.

Look at the inter pro team selections. They have underperformed many league schools in recent years.

Look at their SCT record. In 2011 they beat Kilkenny before losing to Michaels. In 2012 and 2013 they lost, and lost quite badly, to Castleknock and CBC. In 2014 they barely squeaked by a fairly average Gerard’s team before getting knocked out. In 2015 they were unlucky versus Michael to be fair, but Michaels had their own issues. 20 years ago I would never have said St Mary’s versus St Michaels would have the former huge underdogs though, which says a lot. In 2016 they lost to Terenure but in 2017 they beat Newbridge well.

I wouldn’t say any of the League teams that beat were outstanding. They certainly weren’t of the strength of Roscrea in those years. They haven’t beaten a fellow “Big 6” school.

The reality is St Mary’s is a school of 450. Without really brilliant coaching and a laser rugby focus they are just going to be a league school from now on. Because that’s what most league schools are. They’re sub 500 pupil schools who struggle with depth or having the time the likes of Clongowes have to devout to rugby.

Living on past glories does nobody any favours.

Spot on

Locke_Lamora

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sTfmPo2Rs0&t=9s

This came up in my youtube suggested list. I can't find a teamsheet online, does anyone know who the number 7 for Leinster is? I've only watched 20 minutes and he's been really impressive.

irishfan9

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sTfmPo2Rs0&t=9s

This came up in my youtube suggested list. I can't find a teamsheet online, does anyone know who the number 7 for Leinster is? I've only watched 20 minutes and he's been really impressive.

scott penny

1. niall mceniff
2. richie bergin
3. conan dunne
4. zak bursey
5. adam melia
6.
7. scott penny
8. rudhan byron
9. hugo lennox
10. david hawkshaw
11. ruairi shields
12. david ryan
13. brian o'donnell
14. adam la grue
15. rob russell
16. patrick nixon
17. daragh bolger
18.
19.
20. david moran
21. elliott ryan
22.
23.
Aziz Nasir

FrannoFan

restructuring the cup comes up every year. The thing is when there was a vote on it a few years ago all the schools bar 1 voted to keep it as is.

i would have thought if you took the 16 teams in it and made 4 pools of 4 where the top 2 come out (so minimum 3 games each)
that gives you the 8 teams for quarters etc

everyone gets minimum 3 games. eventual winner only has to play 2 extra games.
if you slip up in one game still a shot to progress
Never going to be a runner as things stand.

The Lost Sheep

C3PO wrote: »

Would it make sense to have a league system that all schools play in with qualifiers playing quarters, semis and then a final similar to Champions Cup?

yes but will never happen.

Bridge93 wrote: »

I can't see it. Part of the appeal as I see it is it gives those in it a chance of silverware. Throw Rock/Michaels etc in and it's just the cup by another name. The format you suggest could be a good idea if you were to include a few schools just below the current league.

Might also be seen to devalue the actual cup if you included everyone. Don't know the mindset in the other 'Big 6' but in Rock the idea of the season all building to one game added massively to the appeal of cup season. The cup was the be all and end all. That might be different in other schools who don't have the luxury of Rocks success.

Would allow less room for the games with the big schools from other provinces and countries too which were always highlights of the year, especially away games.

All speculation on my part too. If you did include them, the above might not be true and could be good. Maybe the Rocks etc might actually enjoy the extra guaranteed competitive games once they actually have them.

I don't see it happening but would certainly be better than what exists now. I wouldn't see it as an issue if it was the cup just with a different name/format.
But the issue of the cup being the be all and end all changes the whole experience of the season instead of multiple targets/aims to focus on.
A restructuring with more games in the province wouldn't necessarily mean less games with sides in other provinces as if there was to be a change it could be done countrywide.

FrannoFan wrote: »

restructuring the cup comes up every year. The thing is when there was a vote on it a few years ago all the schools bar 1 voted to keep it as is.

i would have thought if you took the 16 teams in it and made 4 pools of 4 where the top 2 come out (so minimum 3 games each)
that gives you the 8 teams for quarters etc

everyone gets minimum 3 games. eventual winner only has to play 2 extra games.
if you slip up in one game still a shot to progress
Never going to be a runner as things stand.

not a runner but would be win won for everyone imo

MDunne14

irishfan9 wrote: »

scott penny

1. niall mceniff
2. richie bergin
3. conan dunne
4.
5. adam melia
6.
7. scott penny
8. rudhan byron
9. hugo lennox
10. david hawkshaw
11. ruairi shields
12. david ryan
13. brian o'donnell
14. adam la grue
15. rob russell

Scott penny the best player in this years senior cup

irishfan9

MDunne14 wrote: »

Scott penny the best player in this years senior cup

Maybe..

Ayewserious

MDunne14 wrote: »

Scott penny the best player in this years senior cup

Best long term prospect yes. Hawkshaw best player by some distance at the moment