Schools Rugby 2017 2018 Thread SEE MOD WARNING POST #1773

Noscrumnowin

Granny15 wrote: »

You'd have to think they will lose something rugby wise not only from the kids playing at a younger age but also representing the school at a young age.

The biggest loss is the kids going to Donnybrook to see the Senior school pupils play and trying to emulate those older pupils every weekend of their lives from the age of 4.

It embeds in them a lifetimes pursuit towards a goal and representing your school.

Don’t think rugby is a good enough reason to keep the junior school open.

Stmc7

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

They wouldnt and a league system would provide more games and you could have other competitions/finals to give others a chance at silverware as well as the top side

Could you not implement such a system in the already existing cup and does the Vinnie Murray not serve that purpose already for the smaller school

Granny15

Noscrumnowin wrote: »

Don’t think rugby is a good enough reason to keep the junior school open.

If you want more committed players than other schools - it is

themont85

Stmc7 wrote: »

Could you not implement such a system in the already existing cup and does the Vinnie Murray not serve that purpose already for the smaller school

To my mind, I don’t think the the League and Vinny Murray Cup are particularly helpful for all schools. I think it’s benefited a couple of schools a lot, those being Roscrea and Gerards. Both were very small but built via competiviness in the League. Often times I’d say they struggled to get high quality 1XV fixtures 25 years ago. Generally speaking I don’t think the League has helped some of the larger schools in the league to build their depth as they target those games pre Christmas - along with interpros and playing Big 6 friendlies. I don’t think it builds a squad the way the Big 6 can pre Christmas.

A Champions Cup style just won’t happen. There’s too many people to convince and not enough will there to do it. Most of the arguments against it are just lazy but such is life.

Jokesonyou61

themont85 wrote: »

Figures from Educate.ie for Dublin schools. I think the ones outside the Pale have different characteristics to them, particularly boarding. I could have included Newbridge but didn’t. I left out Templeogue, DeLa Salle, Pauls and High School. They don’t really figure in the Senior Leagues as much these days. Junior school, mixed, other main sport and boarders noted.

St Gerards: 350 (58) JS, mixed

St Marys: 443 (74) JS

CBC: 450 (75) JS

CUS: 469 (78), JS

Wesley: 498 (83), mixed, other sport

St Andrews: 502 (84) JS, mixed, other sport

Gonzaga: 552 (92)

St Michaels: 636 (109) JS

Castleknock: 644 (107)

Pres Bray: 651 (109), no fees

Terenure: 690 (110), JS which is closing

St Fintans: 702 (117), other sport (s), no fees

Belvedere: 1011 (169)

Blackrock College: 1014 over 5 years (203), JS, boarders

There’s one school there who have it all – a Junior School, some boarders and the numbers. It’s obvious while they’re successful, before you even appreciate the history and what that can do to aid you.

Numbers are clearly important to be consistently successful. These days from that list you can only put Blackrock, Belvedere and Michaels there. Terenure are still decent, if not what they once were. It’s clearly not the be all and end all though to be a success. Castleknock have expanded their numbers a lot. I would guess their locality would mean they are getting a lot of people from near the Dublin border now, so not necessarily with a rugby background. Castleknock used to be boarding so I guess you have to appreciate that the characteristics of the pupils have changed a good bit in 30 years. Pres Bray are large but clearly fell off. The Junior School closing there in the early 90s did not help them. They weren’t the force they should have been in the 60s/70s/80s at SCT level which suggests finance was an issue there but always were strong at JCT. Fintans are newbies with other sports embedded.

After that to my mind you have a huge cluster of schools in the 400-600 pupil range, who all compete strong on occasion but not consistently anymore. Andrews and Wesley have a gror hockey to. Gerards clearly punch above their pupil weight – it’s likely they can only field 2 teams at first and second year level while anyone north of them should be able to get at least 3, the fact that they have outperformed a lot of those above them is a credit to them.

Junior schools I used to think were very important but perhaps not as much as before. Belvedere and Gonzaga’s closed in the 90s and both are as good, if not better than they were. But both took in greater numbers at senior level. Junior schools don’t seem to be impacting the Marys, CBCs and Terenures like they used to – perhaps that is down to more people playing minis now at clubs. The point about Marys pupils travelling longer is a good one but it there won’t be that many in Michaels either I would guess.

CBC are going to move up the pupil ranks again soon with their school redeveloped and them taking numbers in again. The average is misleading big time there, there’s only 50 in 6th year but around 100 in each of first and second year. But it’s no guarantee of success at all.

Although I'm not up for them you have to give it to Fintans,

Rugby in this school is 3rd or 4th down the pecking order.

They been struggle to get a 1st year, 2nd & jct teams together the past 3 years but yet here they are fighting at the top level last year and this year,

I know this as I have a relative that is a past pupil and is still in touch with this years team,

They have a good core of 5th and their better players are the 6th years even though there is only a handful of them, no 4th years threatening to start,

They're a hard working school with not much money behind them as they are non fee playing school,

Pity they're up against Gerards this year because of they weren't I would be rooting for these guys

irishfan9

Jokesonyou61 wrote: »

Although I'm not up for them you have to give it to Fintans,

Rugby in this school is 3rd or 4th down the pecking order.

They been struggle to get a 1st year, 2nd & jct teams together the past 3 years but yet here they are fighting at the top level last year and this year,

I know this as I have a relative that is a past pupil and is still in touch with this years team,

They have a good core of 5th and their better players are the 6th years even though there is only a handful of them, no 4th years threatening to start,

They're a hard working school with not much money behind them as they are non fee playing school,

Pity they're up against Gerards this year because of they weren't I would be rooting for these guys

cant see them lasting much longer at this level

Jokesonyou61

irishfan9 wrote: »

cant see them lasting much longer at this level

I agree maybe 2/3 more years I say

Rugbyf565

Jokesonyou61 wrote: »

Although I'm not up for them you have to give it to Fintans,

Rugby in this school is 3rd or 4th down the pecking order.

They been struggle to get a 1st year, 2nd & jct teams together the past 3 years but yet here they are fighting at the top level last year and this year,

I know this as I have a relative that is a past pupil and is still in touch with this years team,

They have a good core of 5th and their better players are the 6th years even though there is only a handful of them, no 4th years threatening to start,

They're a hard working school with not much money behind them as they are non fee playing school,

Pity they're up against Gerards this year because of they weren't I would be rooting for these guys

They should give Gerard's a good game though, Fintans have 2 Leinster players in their backline as far as I'm aware.

Jokesonyou61

Rugbyf565 wrote: »

They should give Gerard's a good game though, Fintans have 2 Leinster players in their backline as far as I'm aware.

4 actually 9,10,12,13

2 Leinster 18s
2 Leinster 19s

good prop and hooker and decent second row who is captain too

irishfan9

Jokesonyou61 wrote: »

4 actually 9,10,12,13

2 Leinster 18s
2 Leinster 19s

good prop and hooker and decent second row who is captain too

9. Jack Usher
10. Frankie O'Dea
12. Mikey McGiff
13. Darragh Kelly

Jokesonyou61

irishfan9 wrote: »

9. Jack Usher
10. Frankie O'Dea
12. Mikey McGiff
13. Darragh Kelly

Any idea who the other 3 are? (1,2,5)

Rugbyf565

Jokesonyou61 wrote: »

4 actually 9,10,12,13

2 Leinster 18s
2 Leinster 19s

good prop and hooker and decent second row who is captain too

How do they compare to the Fintans side last season?

Jokesonyou61

Rugbyf565 wrote: »

How do they compare to the Fintans side last season?

Not as good as last year, last years squad were very good but hard done by in the first round last year and who knows how far they could have gone, we can only judge when it comes to their 1st round game

Bacliner

Rugbyf565 wrote: »

They should give Gerard's a good game though, Fintans have 2 Leinster players in their backline as far as I'm aware.

I am not a fan of fintans, don’t like how they conduct themselves. However they are hard to read this year : they were well beaten by newbridge knock and zaga, although it has been said it suited them to lose against newbridge to avoid away match to Roscrea : They were never going to beat knock this year, and zaga game fell apart in final 1/4 for them I think, I might be mistaken but if memory serves me right there were a few sent off which cost them the match??? Gerards only beat them by 2pts at their last meeting ....so it’s all a bit ambiguous: Fintans don’t have a bad team, I certainly would not right them off, for this year at least, in the 1st round that is. It pains me to say it but I foresee a close game, quite possibly an upset.

Jokesonyou61

Bacliner wrote: »

I am not a fan of fintans, don’t like how they conduct themselves. However they are hard to read this year : they were well beaten by newbridge knock and zaga, although it has been said it suited them to lose against newbridge to avoid away match to Roscrea : They were never going to beat knock this year, and zaga game fell apart in final 1/4 for them I think, I might be mistaken but if memory serves me right there were a few sent off which cost them the match??? Gerards only beat them by 2pts at their last meeting ....so it’s all a bit ambiguous: Fintans don’t have a bad team, I certainly would not right them off, for this year at least, in the 1st round that is. It pains me to say it but I foresee a close game, quite possibly an upset.

Correct, no.8 went off injured 2 & 13 got sent off. Against Zaga

Gave away 6 penalties against knock (18points) and had their centre sent to the bin in the first half

What annoys you so much about how they conduct themselves???


If I were a betting man id say there will be over 20 points scored by both teams in the first round

GMoney976

Looking for a guest blogger to do a weekly preview/review for the Leinster Schools Rugby Season. Anyone interested please let me know

Tarf1234

Jokesonyou61 wrote: »

irishfan9 wrote: »

9. Jack Usher
10. Frankie O'Dea
12. Mikey McGiff
13. Darragh Kelly

Any idea who the other 3 are? (1,2,5)

I'm guessing Michael Fitzpatrick and Killian Hickey. Not sure who the No. 5 is.

irishfan9

Tarf1234 wrote: »

I'm guessing Michael Fitzpatrick and Killian Hickey. Not sure who the No. 5 is.

Sam O'Donohue, I think.

6elieve

Fintans tearing the arse out of last year being their first ever year in the cup, Disgrace that their match is the only first round game broadcasted, possibly the poorest option in the poll yet it still won due to their antics on social media.

irishfan9

6elieve wrote: »

Fintans tearing the arse out of last year being their first ever year in the cup, Disgrace that their match is the only first round game broadcasted, possibly the poorest option in the poll yet it still won due to their antics on social media.

upto other schools to mobilize people to vote for them too..

although eir should show all the games..

Tarf1234

irishfan9 wrote: »

upto other schools to mobilize people to vote for them too..

although eir should show all the games..

It was an open vote that they wanted to win... What do people expect them to do opt out? Would have liked to see the Belov game on TV but outside of that Fintans was my choice.

C3PO

Tarf1234 wrote: »

It was an open vote that they wanted to win... What do people expect them to do opt out? Would have liked to see the Belov game on TV but outside of that Fintans was my choice.

Given your username that comes as no surprise!

But I agree, Fintans mobilised their support and got a result, who can blame them for that! It would probably be better to let a group of "experts" select what looks like the most attractive fixture to be televised!

Tarf1234

C3PO wrote: »

Given your username that comes as no surprise!

But I agree, Fintans mobilised their support and got a result, who can blame them for that! It would probably be better to let a group of "experts" select what looks like the most attractive fixture to be televised!

100% the reason!! Look at the crowds some teams get. Should they stop doing that too by the same logic as some are applying? I guess it works pretty well for Eir or they wouldn't do it. You can guarantee viewer figures is all they care about.

The Lost Sheep

Stmc7 wrote: »

Could you not implement such a system in the already existing cup and does the Vinnie Murray not serve that purpose already for the smaller school

No it doesnt. There should be more games within the cup for all sides. Better all round. Like what are the negatives?

themont85 wrote: »

To my mind, I don’t think the the League and Vinny Murray Cup are particularly helpful for all schools. I think it’s benefited a couple of schools a lot, those being Roscrea and Gerards. Both were very small but built via competiviness in the League. Often times I’d say they struggled to get high quality 1XV fixtures 25 years ago. Generally speaking I don’t think the League has helped some of the larger schools in the league to build their depth as they target those games pre Christmas - along with interpros and playing Big 6 friendlies. I don’t think it builds a squad the way the Big 6 can pre Christmas.

A Champions Cup style just won’t happen. There’s too many people to convince and not enough will there to do it. Most of the arguments against it are just lazy but such is life.

But how is vinnie murray and league not successful? And if so what in your opinion would be better for schools.
I dont think you can say a group format wont happen. All takes is for some schools, committee members to want change and that could happen.
Is there really too many people to convince as its the schools committee and if they want change...

Bacliner wrote: »

I am not a fan of fintans, don’t like how they conduct themselves. However they are hard to read this year : they were well beaten by newbridge knock and zaga, although it has been said it suited them to lose against newbridge to avoid away match to Roscrea : They were never going to beat knock this year, and zaga game fell apart in final 1/4 for them I think, I might be mistaken but if memory serves me right there were a few sent off which cost them the match??? Gerards only beat them by 2pts at their last meeting ....so it’s all a bit ambiguous: Fintans don’t have a bad team, I certainly would not right them off, for this year at least, in the 1st round that is. It pains me to say it but I foresee a close game, quite possibly an upset.

I dont see anything wrong with how fintans act in social media or elsewhere. Why is it an issue anyway? They do it to help attract others to the school to play as well and whats wrong with that.

6elieve wrote: »

Fintans tearing the arse out of last year being their first ever year in the cup, Disgrace that their match is the only first round game broadcasted, possibly the poorest option in the poll yet it still won due to their antics on social media.

It isnt a disgrace. Eir want the schools to promote themselves and mobilize their supporters to vote.

irishfan9 wrote: »

upto other schools to mobilize people to vote for them too..

although eir should show all the games..

They shouldnt really. There isnt a need. I would rather they show more games from other provinces as well as highlights of some of the youths rugby competitions even in a magazine styled show covering other sports schools competitions like harty cup etc

themont85

I’ve given my reasons on the League and VM above.

The Champions Cup format, this has been talked about over and over and over again. I’m not bothered going over it with you again, just like another couple of your pet issues you will just keep going on about it.

irishfan9

CBC Monkstown versus Wesley is on now in Dbrook.
Newpark vs KH on at 4pm.

Winners are into the cup.

The Lost Sheep

themont85 wrote: »

I’ve given my reasons on the League and VM above.

The Champions Cup format, this has been talked about over and over and over again. I’m not bothered going over it with you again, just like another couple of your pet issues you will just keep going on about it.

Its a fair point though so dont see why you are getting so defensive.

themont85

Because it is the same with all your pet issues, brought up time and time and again.

Rugby- 9-5 to Wesley at half time.

Rugbyf565

themont85 wrote: »

Because it is the same with all your pet issues, brought up time and time and again.

Rugby- 9-5 to Wesley at half time.

CBC have really drifted off the radar in recent years.

MDunne14

6elieve wrote: »

Fintans tearing the arse out of last year being their first ever year in the cup, Disgrace that their match is the only first round game broadcasted, possibly the poorest option in the poll yet it still won due to their antics on social media.

Whilst I agree I don’t see why eir sport can’t broadcast more than one game ? They showed majority of last years first round gamesb

irishfan9

Rugbyf565 wrote: »

CBC have really drifted off the radar in recent years.

not really, they were very good last season and have a strong JCT team.

this years SCT team is very young.

irishfan9

MDunne14 wrote: »

Whilst I agree I don’t see why eir sport can’t broadcast more than one game ? They showed majority of last years first round gamesb

no they only ever show one first round game, then they show all the rest of them.

Rugbyf565

irishfan9 wrote: »

not really, they were very good last season and have a strong JCT team.

this years SCT team is very young.

Yes as I understand, they have 1 Leinster and 1 Connacht player. But have really struggled to make it past first round or even qualify in the last 5 years. Had a decent team in 2013 but back in 2008 would have been Cup favourites. It's pity that their very talented players tend to leave for blackrock college most years.

irishfan9

Rugbyf565 wrote: »

Yes as I understand, they have 1 Leinster and 1 Connacht player. But have really struggled to make it past first round or even qualify in the last 5 years. Had a decent team in 2013 but back in 2008 would have been Cup favourites. It's pity that their very talented players tend to leave for blackrock college most years.

can't think of any players who have left for blackrock in recent years since the 20 month rule came in.

last player that comes to mind is sean kearns.

The Lost Sheep

themont85 wrote: »

Because it is the same with all your pet issues, brought up time and time and again.

Rugby- 9-5 to Wesley at half time.

Report it if you have an issue otherwise ignore it. Its brought up time and time again because the issue still as relevant now as then

Monkstown leading 12-9 now

irishfan9

Rugbyf565 wrote: »

Ed Brennan, a number 8, left CBC in 2nd year to go on to play blackrock JCT in 2016.

He was with CUS, not CBC.

The Lost Sheep

MDunne14 wrote: »

Whilst I agree I don’t see why eir sport can’t broadcast more than one game ? They showed majority of last years first round gamesb

They didnt and havent ever. Only 1 first round game is shown and then all quarters, the two semis and the final are shown.

Ard Scoil beating Munchins 7-5 at half time in munster playoff

themont85

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Report it if you have an issue otherwise ignore it. Its brought up time and time again because the issue still as relevant now as then

Monkstown leading 12-9 now

You know well the answer you’ll get, therefore.

Someday underage rugby will be just as you like it.

themont85

Rugbyf565 wrote: »

Yes as I understand, they have 1 Leinster and 1 Connacht player. But have really struggled to make it past first round or even qualify in the last 5 years. Had a decent team in 2013 but back in 2008 would have been Cup favourites. It's pity that their very talented players tend to leave for blackrock college most years.

That has happened once ever to my knowledge.

2013: QFs, beat Mary’s then lost to Newbridge
2014: lost to Blackrock in the 1st round. At Junior Cup that team had lost narrowly to Blackrock in the Cup bit of course the 10 switched sides...
2015: beat CUS, lost to Belvedere
2016: beat Gerards, lost to Clongowes
2017: lost narrowly to Roscrea in the 1st round

Meh enough run to be honest. 2009-2012 was worse.

Twice losing to the eventual champions.

irishfan9

@MonkstownPark 12 @wesleycollege 19

Bridge93

Setanta Sports used to show every Senior game in Donnybrook and then the semis and final of the juniors. Was great as a schools fan, shame it’s gone.

On the CBC players I can’t think of anyone other than Kearns going to Rock. Zach O Hagan was in first year in CBC I think before moving but hardly the same thing. Their 2013 team had some good players and some good players who didn’t play cup after a row with the coach I believe. Unfortunate

irishfan9

cbc didnt have either of their provincial reps today afaik

Stevie777

irishfan9 wrote: »

@MonkstownPark 12 @wesleycollege 19

So, who will Wesley now play in the Senior Cup?

The Lost Sheep

themont85 wrote: »

You know well the answer you’ll get, therefore.

Someday underage rugby will be just as you like it.

You still arent getting the point being made

Bridge93 wrote: »

Setanta Sports used to show every Senior game in Donnybrook and then the semis and final of the juniors. Was great as a schools fan, shame it’s gone.

On the CBC players I can’t think of anyone other than Kearns going to Rock. Zach O Hagan was in first year in CBC I think before moving but hardly the same thing. Their 2013 team had some good players and some good players who didn’t play cup after a row with the coach I believe. Unfortunate

Its not the end of the world and at least there is some games shown. Far more than any other school grade competition in any other sport.

Stevie777 wrote: »

So, who will Wesley now play in the Senior Cup?

Roscrea. Winner of other game plays Clongowes

RugbyLover123

What do people think has been the strongest/best Cup year as a whole in terms of talent and entertainment across the board in say the last 20 years?

Granny15

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

What do people think has been the strongest/best Cup year as a whole in terms of talent and entertainment across the board in say the last 20 years?

1998 had very strong teams across the Top 6 and outside that. Roscrea I think got to the semi that year.

irishfan9

2013.

themont85

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

What do people think has been the strongest/best Cup year as a whole in terms of talent and entertainment across the board in say the last 20 years?

2008

Granny15

themont85 wrote: »

2008

Agreed. 2008 had a good spread across the schools.

Rock weren’t domineering.

Bridge93

2013 for me too