Badly Advised by Threshold

AllForIt · 12-07-2017 12:24am #1

Has anyone ever been badly advised by Threshold?

Personally I was advised by Threshold to take a case against my Landlord and I lost. I was advised by Threshold to appeal and I lost that as well.

I can't go into the particulars of the case because it's irrelevant to my point and I wouldn't' feel comfortable going into the details of my personal case on a public website anyway.

As a result of loosing both a dispute and an appeal , I'm seriously screwed.

I'm now thinking of taking a dispute against Threshold because they advised me so badly that they made the situation worse that it was.

I can't give you the whole details but I've got one month now to find a new place to live otherwise my rent will increase by 65% in the next instalment.

If I didn't take advice by Threshold I would have had 3 months to find a new place to live within my means which would have given me a fair bit of time, but now after much expense and worry I've only got one month.

Again, has anyone been badly advised by Threshold?

Rackstar · 12-07-2017 12:28am

Threshold are a charity who give advice. What you do with that advice is your responsibility.

jimmycrackcorm · 12-07-2017 12:31am

It's been alleged here a few times that threshold have been advising tenants to illegally overhold, so the OPs post isn't surprising.

AllForIt · 12-07-2017 12:46am

Rackstar wrote: »

Threshold are a charity who give advice. What you do with that advice is your responsibility.

Threshold is a charity ?

Edit: Well that explains it then.

Rackstar · 12-07-2017 12:48am

AllForIt wrote: »

Threshold is a charity ?

Yes they are. They actively look for donations, people to fundraise and volunteer.

https://www.threshold.ie/about/

AllForIt · 12-07-2017 12:53am

Rackstar wrote: »

Yes they are. They actively look for donations, people to fundraise and volunteer.

https://www.threshold.ie/about/

I would have thought they were an NGO.

Jeff2 · 12-07-2017 1:00am

Go to the PRTB now called the RTB I think and fast if you have a case.

I could name a load of charitys that are useless for people that might become homeless.

If they did help as much as the could the numbers would go down and they are needed less.

beauf · 12-07-2017 1:05am

AllForIt wrote: »

...I'm now thinking of taking a dispute against Threshold ...

Who will you take it to?

Mrs OBumble · 12-07-2017 6:18am

AllForIt wrote: »

I would have thought they were an NGO.

They're that too.

Many NGOs are charities.

antoinolachtnai · 12-07-2017 7:40am

It is a charitable NGO I suppose. It is 67 percent state funded according to the annual report.

gizmo81 · 12-07-2017 7:47am

So you've had both the adjudication and the tribunal?

They have a complaints procedure.

https://www.threshold.ie/advice/complaints.html

Sorry, It's difficult to advice you without any details.

Just a query for other posters, does Threshold come under the remit of The Ombudsman now? The RTB in the 'performance of administrative functions' do now. Maybe Threshold comes under 'Agencies, Charities,. . . delivering social services . . .'. I'm not sure.

https://www.ombudsman.ie/en/Make-a-Complaint/

The_Conductor · 12-07-2017 8:45am

Gizmo- unfortunately, Threshold, while they do receive the bulk of their funding from public sources, are a charity and are not an agency on a statutory footing. Accordingly- they do not come under the remit of the Commissioner.

OP- Threshold offer advice and support- however, this should not be construed as definitive advice- and it would be foolhardy to suggest that it is. They are on record several times- including in a 'Primetime Investigates' episode- offering advice to tenants to behave in breach of their obligations under the Residential Tenancies Act.

If you have taken a case, and lost, and appealed, and also lost- unfortunately- you have exhausted your options with the RTB- who have determined your landlord does not have a case to answer, and the complaint you have lodged with them is not upheld under the Act.

Accordingly- you must seek alternate accommodation.

Please do not presume Threshold are definitive in the advice they offer- they are an advocacy group, staffed by, among others, volunteers, who advocate on behalf of tenants. Just because they assisted you in bringing a case (and they assisted you- its you who brought the case)- does not mean they are liable of anything- other than perhaps bad judgement in allocating resources to a case which was ultimately lost.

You can lodge a complaint with Threshold if you like- and indeed, I'd encourage you to do so- however, I'm not entirely sure what you hope to achieve? You've lost your case against your landlord- and you've lost the appeal. You need to be focusing your energies on finding new accommodation.

gizmo81 · 12-07-2017 8:56am

The_Conductor wrote: »

Gizmo- unfortunately, Threshold, while they do receive the bulk of their funding from public sources, are a charity and are not an agency on a statutory footing. Accordingly- they do not come under the remit of the Commissioner.

.

Thanks Conductor, I knew a lot had been foisted onto the Ombudsman's Remit thanks for clarifying.

One a slight off topic, It annoys me that the only appeal after the Tribunal is a Judicial Review, at a huge expense to whoever takes the case.

The_Conductor · 12-07-2017 9:29am

gizmo81 wrote: »

Thanks Conductor, I knew a lot had been foisted onto the Ombudsman's Remit thanks for clarifying.

One a slight off topic, It annoys me that the only appeal after the Tribunal is a Judicial Review, at a huge expense to whoever takes the case.

The whole point of the RTB was to keep these cases out of the court system.
Its not unheard of for an RTB adjudication and appeal to be overturned- if someone feels strongly enough and has the will (and finances) to afford a case.

Normally it would be overturned on a point of law- however, we don't have any information on the OP's case- so its not fair or reasonable to speculate whether this would even be a reasonable course of action (if they had the means to pursue it).

Its not a perfect system- hell, its dysfunctional in the extreme- however, from the little the OP has told us- it sounds like they should never have bothered pursuing a case in the first instance. Threshold is needlessly antagonistic towards some landlords- and assists in fighting cases that really shouldn't have resources assigned to them- but they fight them in the expectation that landlords will cave in when they hear that Threshold are involved (or a threat that the tenant will go to the media etc etc).

These sort of shenanigans do a disservice to both tenants and landlords- and distract from valid cases that could and should be fought.

Not every case- is a good case to fight- one should choose their fights carefully.

gizmo81 · 12-07-2017 9:34am

The_Conductor wrote: »

The whole point of the RTB was to keep these cases out of the court system.
Its not unheard of for an RTB adjudication and appeal to be overturned- if someone feels strongly enough and has the will (and finances) to afford a case.

.

As you say I don't know the details of the case but in the current crisis, it seems crazy that the RTB would approve a 65% increase.

wordofwarning · 12-07-2017 9:46am

I have zero respect for Threshold. I called them to ask them something. They asked was I a tenant. I said no, it was for a family friend who is a landlord. The person on the phone immediately got defensive and told me they don't deal with landlords. I asked her would she rather give me advice or me making an assumption and possibly unfairly evicting a tenant? She just kept on repeating that they don't advise landlords.

When you have an organisation that plays this wholesome card of trying to prevent homelessness. But when they would rather allow a landlord to possibly unfairly evict a tenant rather give a landlord advice. It is kinda messed up.

The_Conductor · 12-07-2017 9:47am

gizmo81 wrote: »

As you say I don't know the details of the case but in the current crisis, it seems crazy that the RTB would approve a 65% increase.

They're working with the appalling legislation Minister Coveney dumped on them.
For a signficant cohort of older workers- investing in rental property- is their pension plan- they don't have a Plan B. Government policy- is to drive these people (keeping in mind just over 70% of all rental property is owned by landlords who have two or fewer properties) out of the market- and drive tenants into the arms of the property REITs etc.

The REITS have increased asking prices for new properties by over 100% in the last 12 months- in order to get ahead of 4% rent increase limits- i.e. get in at the top- and then they don't have to fight to get more than their 4% down the road...........

The people in the corner laughing at all of this- are the Revenue Commissioners- who conversely, the media seem to be keeping very schmum about.

Its a mess- an evolving mess- one which doesn't have a roadmap- and one in which the only thing you can be sure of- is the government will point its finger at the landlords and play the blame game- no matter what happens.

The bigger issue than anything else- is that lack of supply is distorting the residential property market from every which direction. Until this is resolved- in a sustainable manner- we are only going to continue to get increases- perhaps from the REITs rather than private landlords- but its just going to continue............

The government has deliberately reinflated the property market- to cleanse banks of their bad debts- however, in turn this is inflating household debt.

We really learnt very little from the last time round- and the public have very short memories........

The_Conductor · 12-07-2017 9:50am

wordofwarning wrote: »

I have zero respect for Threshold. I called them to ask them something. They asked was I a tenant. I said no, it was for a family friend who is a landlord. The person on the phone immediately got defensive and told me they don't deal with landlords. I asked her would she rather give me advice or me making an assumption and possibly unfairly evicting a tenant? She just kept on repeating that they don't advise landlords.

When you have an organisation that plays this wholesome card of trying to prevent homelessness. But when they would rather allow a landlord to possibly unfairly evict a tenant rather give a landlord advice. It is kinda messed up.

I'd go as far as suggesting if you want advice that actually means anything at all- go to a solicitor who is uptodate with property legislation- and pay for proper advice. Threshold are a danger to anyone who relies on them.

Tombo2001 · 12-07-2017 9:55am

AllForIt wrote: »

I would have thought they were an NGO.

NGO means

Non Government Organization.

Wiki definition:

A non-governmental organization (NGO) is a nonprofit organization that is independent of governments and international governmental organizations.

wordofwarning · 12-07-2017 3:55pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd go as far as suggesting if you want advice that actually means anything at all- go to a solicitor who is uptodate with property legislation- and pay for proper advice. Threshold are a danger to anyone who relies on them.

I was 99.9% certain that what I was going to do was right. I just wanted to do double check. I had a glance of their website before the call and realised their advice was questionable to say the least.

4ensic15 · 12-07-2017 3:58pm

Jeff2 wrote: »

Go to the PRTB now called the RTB I think and fast if you have a case.

I could name a load of charitys that are useless for people that might become homeless.

If they did help as much as the could the numbers would go down and they are needed less.

The RTB only deal with disputes between landlords and tenants or former landlords and former tenants as the case may be. they have nothing to with disputes between any other individuals or groups. The o/p could sue threshold for negligent misstatement in the courts. It will cost him a lot more than he has now lost. It appears the o/p got a notice of rent increase and tried to appeal that it was in excess of market rate. It should have been obvious whether or not it was the case that the rent was market rent or not.

godtabh · 12-07-2017 3:59pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

NGO means

Non Government Organization.

Wiki definition:

A non-governmental organization (NGO) is a nonprofit organization that is independent of governments and international governmental organizations.

but very often receive government money

handlemaster · 12-07-2017 5:13pm

I would think the OP must be clearly in the wrong as a tenant to lose a case against a landlord. Very querious to know how naughty they were

jimmycrackcorm · 12-07-2017 6:05pm

The_Conductor wrote:

The REITS have increased asking prices for new properties by over 100% in the last 12 months- in order to get ahead of 4% rent increase limits- i.e. get in at the top- and then they don't have to fight to get more than their 4% down the road...........

Why pick REITS? Same applies to any landlord that has come into the market in the same period.

The_Conductor wrote:

The government has deliberately reinflated the property market- to cleanse banks of their bad debts- however, in turn this is inflating household debt.

This is bordering on conspiracy theory when the core issue is a lack of supply. The government could do more to increase supply but they're not deliberately trying to hold it back either.

If anything it is the councils and nimbyism doing that.

beauf · 12-07-2017 8:09pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

... . The government could do more to increase supply.. .

We have probably the worse housing crisis and shortage in the history of the state.

Has the govt done anything to increase supply. Have their actions had the effect of decrease supply, or inflate the cost?

I struggle to see how they could do less...

gizmo81 · 12-07-2017 8:19pm

Immediate ban/fine for non-owner listed rooms/properties on Air BnB.

Massive fines on Air BnB (for not verifying) and anyone not adhering to the rule that you must own the property to let it.

12-07-2017 9:13pm

gizmo81 wrote: »

Immediate ban/fine for non-owner listed rooms/properties on Air BnB.

Massive fines on Air BnB (for not verifying) and anyone not adhering to the rule that you must own the property to let it.

Unless LLs are given more control over their property during a tenancy then the above will be a waste of time as the many of the properties will either be left vacant so as not to take the risk of a long term tenant or it Will be let for less than 6 months at which time a new tenant will be found for another period of less than 6 months etc so no part4 is attained.

gizmo81 · 12-07-2017 9:18pm

Linda Wooden Body wrote: »

Unless LLs are given more control over their property during a tenancy then the above will be a waste of time as the many of the properties will either be left vacant so as not to take the risk of a long term tenant or it Will be let for less than 6 months at which time a new tenant will be found for another period of less than 6 months etc so no part4 is attained.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Why would it be a risk for the landlord? Maybe i wasn't clear, if a tenant puts a room or whole property on Air BnB they don't own.

Lots of listings on Air BnB are very secretive ref location, has a host to verify the address with Air BnB, I know it won't be in Air BnB's interest to ban hosts but if they had to verify address then it could be checked against RTB database.

I was watching a Landlord tenant programme on 3e at 8 and a landlord was really upset at finding her property was let on Air BnB as it voided her insurance.

Owner occupiers shouldn't be affected.

4ensic15 · 12-07-2017 9:22pm

gizmo81 wrote: »

As you say I don't know the details of the case but in the current crisis, it seems crazy that the RTB would approve a 65% increase.

Unless it is an RPZ case the percentage increase is irrelevant. the only function of the RTB in a level of rent dispute is to decide if the new rent is at or below market value at the time the increase was notified. In some cases market rents have doubled fronm five years ago. Unless the RP|Z rules apply the RTB would be obliged to sanction a 100% increase if the rent was set 5 years ago at the then market rent and increased to the current market rent.

gizmo81 · 12-07-2017 9:32pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

Unless it is an RPZ case the percentage increase is irrelevant. the only function of the RTB in a level of rent dispute is to decide if the new rent is at or below market value at the time the increase was notified. In some cases market rents have doubled fronm five years ago. Unless the RP|Z rules apply the RTB would be obliged to sanction a 100% increase if the rent was set 5 years ago at the then market rent and increased to the current market rent.

Having been in this situation two years ago just before the RPZ came in in Dublin I got a 50% increase. I just couldn't afford/justify that increase and had to move.

I think it's a good thing now that can't happen in RPZ areas.

12-07-2017 9:39pm

gizmo81 wrote: »

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. Why would it be a risk for the landlord? Maybe i wasn't clear, if a tenant puts a room or whole property on Air BnB they don't own.

I meant that you are expecting the Airbnb LLs to move to long term tenancies and I'm saying that's a risk that many will not take due to the power tenants have once they get part4 rights.

Badly Advised by Threshold

Comments