Begrudgery

Bluefoam

I was home for two weeks and really enjoyed my stay, the atmosphere in Ireland is great, the streets were busy and there was a great vibe...

But then I went to an event and came down to earth with a bump... Silly Irish begrudgery is still alive and well... First I had to hear about D4's and what arseholes they are... The comments were pointed directly at me, because even though I'm not a D4 & would never be accepted in their social circles, I do have a southside accent... The guy in question was telling us how he had ridiculed a couple on their honeymoon on the Aran Islands, because they were using a drone to take photos of the occasion, but didn't have an advanced knowledge of video editing software... Somehow he managed to make them sound like the arseholes, but it was clear who was actually being a dick...

With the same group, I also had to hear how anyone with a beard was a hipster & all hipsters were dickheads... later in the same day I had to listen to the same people describe how they enjoy their craft beers and make firepits from recycled car wheels (but they are obviously not hipsters)...

To be honest, I'm not really concerned with the individual arguments, but it just highlighted to me that there's an awful lot of begrudgery in Ireland and the place is very tribal. I don't really want to have to come home to that, it kind of upsets me that we're still so small minded...

Harry Palmr

Sure, who do think you are? Coming back here and telling us we're a load of begrudgers

On topic

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jul/12/where-the-streets-have-no-statues-why-do-the-irish-hate-u2

The_Valeyard

Well la de da, Mr. I've got d*ckhead friends.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

There's a thread on this at least twice a year and the usual stuff will now be trotted out with opinions that paint Ireland as unique, while it is not inherently different to most other countries....

Loveinapril

I don't think you understand what begrudgery means.

Bluefoam

Loveinapril wrote: »

I don't think you understand what begrudgery means.

I do... I'm implying that there is envy & resentment involved...

Armchair Andy

Anyone using a drone to record weddings is daft. Wait til they get drunk you can record downblouse all you want!

Loveinapril

Bluefoam wrote: »

I do... I'm implying that there is envy & resentment involved...

Because a couple have a drone and people grow beards? I wasn't getting envy from your post at all.

Bluefoam

Loveinapril wrote: »

Because a couple have a drone and people grow beards?

Yes, begrudging success, possessions, lifestyle etc... you are just being a pedant...

pickarooney

Armchair Andy wrote: »

Anyone using a drone to record weddings is daft. Wait til they get drunk you can record downblouse all you want!

Is blouse not just the unsexiest word? Or would that be frock?

buried

Had one of these when I was a kid. We named him Max and he used to be able to chat & say a few words too, "pretty boy", "hallo". Stuff like that. Then one day we let him out of the cage and one of the cats finished his pretty boy chat

valoren

I'm a fairly level headed guy.
I have a chip on both shoulders.

Kivaro

Bluefoam wrote: »

I do... I'm implying that there is envy & resentment involved...

Begrudgery is rife in this country ........... mostly displayed by people who did not bother going the extra step to make life better for themselves and for their families. In other countries if you worked hard and did well for yourself then you are admired by most of the natives. In Ireland the resentment is palpable; mostly by people who haven't a clue of your financial/professional situation but will broadly proclaim completely inaccurate information to all and sundry i.e. they make it up.

I'm hopeful that younger Irish people will lose this seemingly genetic trait.
To the begrudgers out there: stop bitching about others hard earned good fortune and do something about your own situation to improve it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Kivaro wrote: »

Begrudgery is rife in this country ........... mostly displayed by people who did not bother going the extra step to make life better for themselves and for their families. In other countries if you worked hard and did well for yourself then you are admired by most of the natives. In Ireland the resentment is palpable; mostly by people who haven't a clue of your financial/professional situation but will broadly proclaim completely inaccurate information to all and sundry i.e. they make it up.

I'm hopeful that younger Irish people will lose this seemingly genetic trait.
To the begrudgers out there: stop bitching about others hard earned good fortune and do something about your own situation to improve it.

Meeoww! Who's doing the bitching now?

Kivaro

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Begrudger!

whoopsadoodles

Sooooo - you encountered one group of arseholes and now we're all begrudging little sh*ts?

I've done alright for myself, all things considered, and aside from being called a snob once by someone who actually knows I'm anything but (when asked to explain exactly how I was a snob the reply was "you just are, not in a bad way, but you are"), I haven't encountered this so called begrudgery. I have encountered arseholes aplenty mind but they're arseholes about everything. I have been on the wrong side of jealousy, but I don't think that was the same thing.

I await the arrival of one particular poster to tell us how everyone in their small town is begrudging of how amazing their life is.....tick tock, tick tock.

seamus

There are a couple of aspects to it.

A lot of it is rooted in cultural memory when anyone who had money was British or at least supportive of the British.

Being seen to try and make more of your life was to aspire to be British rather than be happy with being a simple Irishman. Thus having "notions" about yourself, working hard to make more money or aspiring to greater things was seen as a rejection of your Irishness.

To be Irish is to be a little bit self-deprecating. It's part of our humour, it's why we're so easy-going. But culturally this can go too far and make us believe it's true, that Irish people are naturally inferior. Anyone who is successful, makes good money and buys fancy stuff and nice houses is no longer a true Irishman, he's a "West Brit", an arrogant spa, look at him there, thinks he's the bees' knees.

This can be seen in lots of things; not just the anti-Bono crowd, but also the automatic hatred of landlords, vilification of any politician who doesn't come from humble beginnings, etc.

Included in this sh1t sandwich is catholicism which glorifies humility and demonises confidence and success. Anyone who would dare speak well about themselves is automatically a horrible person who has strayed from God.

It's going away. The Celtic Tiger actually did a lot to sweep a lot of this rubbish away - when presented with the opportunity to make money or remain poor and humble, people chose the money and lost the ability to complain about other people daring to improve their lot.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Wanderer78

Permabear wrote:

This post had been deleted.

There's ton of people writing about the failure of things such as neoliberalism/globalisation/free (for-all) market capitalism, whatever you d like to call it, and I'd have to agree with them. How can you justify when it seems like the minority of society is truly gaining from these ideologies and systems? How is it justified? We 're effectively tearing our planet and societies apart by these approaches, and if we don't react quickly and efficiently, there's a possibility we may not have a planet soon to live on.

Syphonax

Its amazing how many Irish people think they actually have a good sense of humor and are good craic even though the majority of their comments amounts to little more than childish, belittling name calling, which really is bordering on bullying.

Laziest word/term, people don't like someone or something, might be popular but not everyone has to like it/them, being shoved in their face....See Sheeran, Ed

seamus

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You're over-egging that to be honest. You've been out of Ireland for a while, right? So the subtlety may not come across if you're not immersed in it.

Out of the boom Ireland has developed largely socially liberal and fiscally prudent attitudes. People want state supports, they want welfare and free healthcare, they don't don't oppose higher taxation in principle. However, people want this balanced against getting value for money and not pouring taxpayer's money into a black hole. People do agree that the state has a duty to redistribute wealth to ensure that the rising tide lifts all boats.

Up until the boom the attitudes were much closer to "something for nothing" and "tax the wealthy, they're only west brits anyway".

The reason it appears like a new left has appeared in the Paul Murphy's is that their attitudes now stand out much more starkly against the backdrop.

Recent threads here actually display this change quite aptly. In the 70s and 80s, trade unions were king. Everyone supported strikers no matter what they were striking for, scabs were subhuman and business owners were comic villains with cigars and monocles.

Fast-forward to 2017 and the Bus Eireann strike, and a majority of people are telling them to STFU and get back to work.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

kunst nugget

What's being described in the first post doesn't really sound like begrudgery and more like people being arseholes. My interaction with arseholes lessens as I get older and filter them out of my life. Generally the only arsehole I deal with these days is the one at the end of my alimentary canal.

JupiterKid

Begrudgery is still very much alive and well in Ireland but it has definitely lessened in the past 15 or so years, as the country has become wealthier and more confident.

One thing I do notice in Ireland is a sort of reverse snobbery with respect to one's own beginnings. It seems like it's a badge of honour to proclaim that you came from a broken/poverty stricken/dysfunctional childhood and are self-made and got no help whatsoever but something shameful to admit that you actually had a privileged and comfortable childhood - usually because your parents worked very hard to give you such a start in life.

Bluefoam

OSI wrote: »

She had it all of a month before some jealous **** keyed both sides of it and left an anonymous note under the wiper telling her she needed reminding of the poverty she came from before attempting to appear "above your station" and that this person still remembers dropping bags of her old clothes off to the family home when they were kids.

That is absolutely disgusting... I'm genuinely angry that your mother had to experience that...

kunst nugget wrote: »

What's being described in the first post doesn't really sound like begrudgery and more like people being arseholes.

You are correct, but that arseholery is closely linked to their begrudgery...

Dr Crayfish

This is something we are constantly told here. That we hate people who do well. It's not true. Stop trying to make begrudgery happen.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Bluefoam

JupiterKid wrote: »

One thing I do notice in Ireland is a sort of reverse snobbery with respect to one's own beginnings. It seems like it's a badge of honour to proclaim that you came from a broken/poverty stricken/dysfunctional childhood and are self-made and got no help whatsoever but something shameful to admit that you actually had a privileged and comfortable childhood - usually because your parents worked very hard to give you such a start in life.

I get allot of **** for growing up in South Dublin... I'm well spoken, and obviously SD, but not a D4...

My parents did genuinely come from little. Their parents came from less... but they all worked their way to where they got to. I'm very proud of that. It is true however that I had a more privileged upbringing, because they worked hard to provide that for me & I'll do the same for my kids... There is nothing to be ashamed of in any of that. But I do get called a West Brit by people who don't know me.

Dr Crayfish

Bluefoam wrote: »

I get allot of **** for growing up in South Dublin... I'm well spoken, and obviously SD, but not a D4...

My parents did genuinely come from little. Their parents came from less... but they all worked their way to where they got to. I'm very proud of that. It is true however that I had a more privileged upbringing, because they worked hard to provide that for me & I'll do the same for my kids... There is nothing to be ashamed of in any of that. But I do get called a West Brit by people who don't know me.

Most people get a ribbing over something in all countries, it's not uniquely Irish. I get sh*t in work for being from Dublin, as I am surrounded by culchies. I enjoy the joking around.

dont bother

Bluefoam wrote: »

I get allot of **** for growing up in South Dublin... I'm well spoken, and obviously SD, but not a D4...

My parents did genuinely come from little. Their parents came from less... but they all worked their way to where they got to. I'm very proud of that. It is true however that I had a more privileged upbringing, because they worked hard to provide that for me & I'll do the same for my kids... There is nothing to be ashamed of in any of that. But I do get called a West Brit by people who don't know me.

why are you offended by people thinking you're posh or whatever?
would you prefer to be called a scumbag cos you're from the northside?

ive done well for myself but because of where im from and my "dublin accent" it's all "ah you're rough" "ah you're only a northsider" etc etc.

everyone gets it - and you have absolutely no argument against people thinking you're posh or a west brit. get over it, its hardly a negative thing now is it?

and the examples you cited in your op are ridiculous. those two groups of people DO sound like idiots. beards, hipsters and drones!? come on.

kunst nugget

OSI wrote: »

My mother grew up in rural Ireland in a poor family of 15 kids. The kind of family you see jokes made of on TV: having shared baths in barrels, getting fruit for Christmas, 5 to a bed, wearing your Aunties 10 year old bridesmaid dress to the debs that kind of craic.

Once she left home, she worked bloody hard to make sure her own kids had a better lifestyle and did a pretty decent job of it. After my Brother and I left home, both our parents were still working full time, but had no kids to pay for. So my Mum decided that after decades of working her butt off to support her family, she finally deserved something nice for herself and saved up for a few years to buy herself a nice new Renault. She was dead chuffed with her own little motor.

She had it all of a month before some jealous **** keyed both sides of it and left an anonymous note under the wiper telling her she needed reminding of the poverty she came from before attempting to appear "above your station" and that this person still remembers dropping bags of her old clothes off to the family home when they were kids.

That's the kind of small minded bull**** begrudgery still prevalent in Ireland.

That's a pretty extreme example of begrudgery and I would have thought a fairly unique one too. Those types of actions are hardly widespread throughout Ireland, are they? I don't think I've come across something like that before.

It's an awful thing to happen to your mother, though. Whoever did that is an out and out scumbag.

realdanbreen

Bluefoam wrote: »

I was home for two weeks and really enjoyed my stay, the atmosphere in Ireland is great, the streets were busy and there was a great vibe...

But then I went to an event and came down to earth with a bump... Silly Irish begrudgery is still alive and well... First I had to hear about D4's and what arseholes they are... The comments were pointed directly at me, because even though I'm not a D4 & would never be accepted in their social circles, I do have a southside accent... The guy in question was telling us how he had ridiculed a couple on their honeymoon on the Aran Islands, because they were using a drone to take photos of the occasion, but didn't have an advanced knowledge of video editing software... Somehow he managed to make them sound like the arseholes, but it was clear who was actually being a dick...

With the same group, I also had to hear how anyone with a beard was a hipster & all hipsters were dickheads... later in the same day I had to listen to the same people describe how they enjoy their craft beers and make firepits from recycled car wheels (but they are obviously not hipsters)...

To be honest, I'm not really concerned with the individual arguments, but it just highlighted to me that there's an awful lot of begrudgery in Ireland and the place is very tribal. I don't really want to have to come home to that, it kind of upsets me that we're still so small minded...

It's laughable the way that dubs make such a big deal about the difference between northside and southside. Dublin is a pretty insignifican place as cities go and would just about be a borough or district in a real meaningful city. Apart from the zoo and maybe Guinnnesses there is nothing of any significance to see and 2 days max would cover everything there is to see.

JupiterKid

realdanbreen wrote: »

It's laughable the way that dubs make such a big deal about the difference between northside and southside. Dublin is a pretty insignifican place as cities go and would just about be a borough or district in a real meaningful city. Apart from the zoo and maybe Guinnnesses there is nothing of any significance to see and 2 days max would cover everything there is to see.

Sure, Dublin is not a big city by global standards but it's a behemoth in Ireland. As for things to see, only the zoo and Guinness? really? What about Dublin Castle, National Museum, National Gallery, Chester Beatty Library, Botanic Gardens, Marino Casino, Malahide Castle, etc?

Bluefoam

realdanbreen wrote: »

It's laughable the way that dubs make such a big deal about the difference between northside and southside. Dublin is a pretty insignifican place as cities go and would just about be a borough or district in a real meaningful city. Apart from the zoo and maybe Guinnnesses there is nothing of any significance to see and 2 days max would cover everything there is to see.

Wow... to say that Dublin is insignificant comes across to me as a bitter statement. By any measure, Dublin is a significant city on the world stage!

Aglomerado

OSI wrote: »

That's the kind of small minded bull**** begrudgery still prevalent in Ireland.

That's appalling behaviour OSI.

Years ago when people used to pay water charges to the local council, they were entered into a prize draw. The top prize was a spanking new car. (A ford fiesta). One year one of my relations won it. She was in her 80s and couldn't drive. So as it happened one of her granddaughters was getting married so it made a fantastic wedding present for her and her husband. Lucky them!

...cue a lot of the neighbours whinging that it "boiled their blood" that there was a brand new car outside that family's house. Why, FFS? They got it fair and square!

jester77

It's a pretty brutal trait of the Irish. I haven't lived in Ireland in over 15 years and I still find it strange that people are genuinely happy for me when I am successful. It shouldn't be like that.

Wanderer78

jester77 wrote: »

It's a pretty brutal trait of the Irish. I haven't lived in Ireland in over 15 years and I still find it strange that people are genuinely happy for me when I am successful. It shouldn't be like that.

we hate you!(happy???):D

realdanbreen

JupiterKid wrote: »

Sure, Dublin is not a big city by global standards but it's a behemoth in Ireland. As for things to see, only the zoo and Guinness? really? What about Dublin Castle, National Museum, National Gallery, Chester Beatty Library, Botanic Gardens, Marino Casino, Malahide Castle, etc?

National Gallery?, Chester Beatty library?
You're kidding right. 90% of people who visit the national Gallery do so to punch in time or out of boredom because theres nothing much to see in Dublin. Like I say 2 days max in Dublin and you end up bumping into someone you know.

realdanbreen

Bluefoam wrote: »

Wow... to say that Dublin is insignificant comes across to me as a bitter statement. By any measure, Dublin is a significant city on the world stage!

How can it be a bitter statement?Not only is Dublin not significant on the world stage but Ireland is not significant on the world stage.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Begrdgery is just a human characteristic that exists all across the world and not just in Ireland.As Gore Vidal said "Everytime a friend suceeds a little something in me dies".

I really wish people would get over themselves about Ireland and realise that not everything bad someone does/happens in Ireland is because this is Ireland.

Dr Crayfish

jester77 wrote: »

It's a pretty brutal trait of the Irish. I haven't lived in Ireland in over 15 years and I still find it strange that people are genuinely happy for me when I am successful. It shouldn't be like that.

Are you saying you know people who are unhappy that you've done well? What kind of people are you all hanging around with?

meeeeh

realdanbreen wrote: »

National Gallery?, Chester Beatty library?
You're kidding right. 90% of people who visit the national Gallery do so to punch in time or out of boredom because theres nothing much to see in Dublin. Like I say 2 days max in Dublin and you end up bumping into someone you know.

Oh great, lets start another Dublin vs Country debate. Who cares if it has nothing to do with the thread.

Anyway there might be some begrudgery but it might be something small nations, especially those emerging from poverty, are more prone to. I came across it outside Ireland too. I really don't think examples in op are overly bad and I am not sure they are begrudgery anyway. I think people often put others down to minimize their own failings. I don't like to hang around those who have nothing good to say about others anyway. I don't mind an odd complaint because sometimes they are justified but constant negativity is just draining. Luckily there are plenty of people who are not like that.

realdanbreen

meeeeh wrote: »

Oh great, lets start another Dublin vs Country debate. Who cares if it has nothing to do with the thread. .

Dublin v Country? where are you getting that from? Just because dubs ( whether north or south side) need to get over themselves has nothing to do with the rest of the country.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

kunst nugget

realdanbreen wrote: »

Dublin v Country? where are you getting that from? Just because dubs ( whether north or south side) need to get over themselves has nothing to do with the rest of the country.

I think you need to get over yourself, tbh… and I'm saying that as a culchie.

realdanbreen

kunst nugget wrote: »

I think you need to get over yourself, tbh… and I'm saying that as a culchie.

What part of Clare are you from?

kunst nugget

realdanbreen wrote: »

What part of Clare are you from?

I'm not. I'm from the part of the midlands where they surgically remove the ability to say the letter 'T' when you're born.

meeeeh

kunst nugget wrote: »

I'm not. I'm from the part of the midlands where they surgically remove the ability to say the letter 'T' when you're born.

The trouble we had to get our son to say water instead of waher.

Glenster

None of those examples are begrudgery.

1st one sounds like a tech head who hates everyone who cant use the systems he can use.

2nd one is the internationally recognised "I like cool things but everyone else who likes cool things is a poser and a hipster" conversation that is being had at this moment on all points around the globe.


I personally like a bit of standard begrudgery;
speculating how much of someone's deposit came as a gift from their parents;
asserting that someone is successful because they came into a job at the right time;
debating whether or not someone can really afford to be driving that car, who are they trying to impress?

I like it.