not all rosy at Roth

mossym

seems to have flown under the radar a bit, but it seems some of the pro's are not happy with Miss Ryf, and Yvonne Van V has called her out on her news letter,

http://www.yvonnevanvlerken.eu/index_htm_files/Newsletter%20Yvonne%20van%20Vlerken%20Juli-2%202017.pdf

speaks her mind, which i have to give her credit for. and on the same weekend there was pics of frodo making espresso shots it seems she may have a point..

what do you think?

peter kern

the one thing she is a bit of a princess herself ... so i cant read that very seriously.
i think there is surely some points correct ( especially the warm up point )
a pro has two jobs to promote his/ her sponsers in race week and perform on race day. and i guess the worlds 2nd fastest time ever 2016 is very good race promotion .
if felix the race director had not liked what daniela did last year he would not have paid her again a good apperacne fee a kona champ commands . SO it would appear the race organicer is happy with his invesmtment.

mossym

one thing i love about tri is the attitude most of the pro's have to the Ager's. at the same time i understand they ave hectic schedules, so while it's a pity to see them skipping the after events i'm sure its tough.. even then, i don't see anything wrong with a bit of peer pressure to make sure the tradition remains.

the bigger issue is the rules. the warm up, the helmet, those are hard rules AFAIK, and if they apply to one they apply to all. those i'd have a much bigger issue with, and i don't care how huw big a promotion the person is for the race

peter kern

how valuable are those rules if not enforced
van vlerken saw all this and the race officals didnt ... ???
i guess than we have an issue here.


and especially for swim warm up i think its a saftey hazzared not to allow swimmers to do their proper chosen warm up .
most panic attacks could be prevneted.

given her slow swim time one can assume she still has back issues and maybe needs a longer warm up ?

joey100

Brett Sutton has his say on it,

http://trisutto.com/professionalism-in-triathlon/

Not sure I agree with his point to be honest, but I can see where he is coming from. Athletes shouldn't be expected to be meeting fans for 5-6 hours a day coming up to race day but if that is the norm then it should be the same for everyone. Like Mossy said, Frodo seemed to be out a good bit before his race, even though I do think it was as much about self promotion as anything else, I'd bet he has a stake in Ryzon, the company that make his new gear. But even if it was for purely selfish reasons it does keep that link there between the pro's and age groupers and didn't seem to do him any harm on race day.

I don't really like this line in his blog,

'It’s not for those standing off the dais to be lecturing those on top of it about professionalism.'

I think it's a good thing when athletes call each other out. Just because your standing on the podium doesn't mean you are anymore professional than anyone else and doesn't mean your opinion counts more than anyone else's.

peter kern

i guess its boils down what you think pro sport is

if you think its about performance you cant find fault with Suttos post
apart form twisitng a few facts.

if you think a pro is there to mainly entertain people like van velrken seems to think. than you gotta agree with her.

naturally its a mix between the two for most at the same time ryf has made enouhg money by performing at races, that she can chose what she wants to do.
and in her case the reason she has made this money is performing at races.

as he points out quite rightly real pro athtles prepare the best they can for a race and standing 6 hours on ones leg before race day is just plain silly

of course you can ask is roth still a real pro race given the fact that the price money has been massively cut over the last few years and pro athletes might have have to shill more products.
fact is apart from one big headline athlete it attracts less and less people of top 10 kona quality . i think thats a pity as for many many years it was the 2nd strongest filed of the year after kona.

personaly i think the race director is perfectly happy that he had miss ryf at the race as otherwise it would have been a bit of a field quality desaster for him.
its been suggested that miss ryf goat a penalty of some sort so its seems the officals did their job.

peter kern

joey100 wrote: »

Brett Sutton has his say on it,

http://trisutto.com/professionalism-in-triathlon/

Not sure I agree with his point to be honest, but I can see where he is coming from. Athletes shouldn't be expected to be meeting fans for 5-6 hours a day coming up to race day but if that is the norm then it should be the same for everyone. Like Mossy said, Frodo seemed to be out a good bit before his race, even though I do think it was as much about self promotion as anything else, I'd bet he has a stake in Ryzon, the company that make his new gear. But even if it was for purely selfish reasons it does keep that link there between the pro's and age groupers and didn't seem to do him any harm on race day.

I don't really like this line in his blog,

'It’s not for those standing off the dais to be lecturing those on top of it about professionalism.'

I think it's a good thing when athletes call each other out. Just because your standing on the podium doesn't mean you are anymore professional than anyone else and doesn't mean your opinion counts more than anyone else's.

but is it really true what is suggested ....
are you maybe comming to conclusions too quickly when you say its good to be called out -only listening to one side - and this side might not tell the full storry. or in fact it becoming clear she does not tell the full storry at all.


http://triathlonworld.com/news/yvonne-van-vlerken-calls-out-daniela-ryf-142163
i saw a 30 min tv report about roth and miss ryf gave interviews before the race start in the morning and it would appear nobody did anywhere near as many intervies as she did
she was aparanatly with one sponosr signing autographs during the female talk.

mossym

The German Triathlon Federation (DTU) dealt with those by handing Ryf a couple of yellow cards (warnings that don’t come with a time penalty – you can receive up to three yellow cards in a race.) Ryf received her first yellow card when she entered transition on Sunday morning and the second before the start of the race. (http://triathlonworld.com/news/yvonne-van-vlerken-calls-out-daniela-ryf-142163)


seems like Ryf was carded for both the helmet and the swim. rules were followed, the other pro's had the choice to take a card and do the same thing so no foul then i say. as long as the same rules are applied to the top and the bottom that's fair enough

joey100

But is Brett Sutton not putting her side across, as Ryf's coach Peter? Don't we have both sides now with YVK and Brett Sutton both putting across their sides of the argument?

The part I said I didn't like was where Sutton said people not on the podium shouldn't be lecturing people on the podium on professionalism, that's not right, does that mean only the best 3 in the race can have an opinion on what is professional and what isn't? Does that mean that only the 3 on the podium can be considered to be professional?


I don't agree that's it's the best prep for a race, it's probably the last thing I would do or want to do the day before a race but if that's the accepted practice and everyone is doing it why not say Ryf isn't doing it? Nothing wrong or lying there, just someone calling her out for not doing it. Sutton never says once in his blog that what YVK said isn't the truth, instead gave reasons why Ryf didn't do it. Can we not take from this then that what YVK said is somewhat truthful?

Maybe the card thing needs to be looked at? Does anyone know how else Ryf could have got another yellow card and what would have happened if she did?

mossym

joey100 wrote: »

Maybe the card thing needs to be looked at? Does anyone know how else Ryf could have got another yellow card and what would have happened if she did?

presumably she took the risk that she wouldn't get another, which was a risk. the helmet one seems daft. the swim one could have given her a benefit, but cost her a card. i don't get the helmet one outside of it being a mistake, unless it was hidden on purpose(no safety mark)

re suttons post, saying those on the podium have the right on professionalism: all i can think of is a certain yank rolling up and down the peleton forcing others to play by his rules cause he was top dog. no-one should be above the rest of the field, save for results

joey100

That's my thinking too Mossy, they are all professionals, some probably more than other, but just cos your on the top doesn't mean your approach is anymore professional than anyone else's and doesn't mean you are above criticism.

peter kern

joey100 wrote: »

That's my thinking too Mossy, they are all professionals, some probably more than other, but just cos your on the top doesn't mean your approach is anymore professional than anyone else's and doesn't mean you are above criticism.

above correct criticism or bull **** criticism ?
its ok to be called out for the incidents that got her cards but the rest when you look at the facts seems bull****.


and again if you see the pic in the article i posted and by van vleerkens own admison to not to care aobut the result anymore in the run . you will have to agree that she was not racing as professionl as miss ryf in this instance ( i agree van vleerken is a fierce racer - one year she did one of the most awesome sprints at 70. 3 ever at saint poelten 70.3 - but not in that instance on sunday )
so when sutton calls her out on this you have to show me how he is wrong ???
would you when you are totally focused lift your fist in a race to salut the spectators and givs hugs to spectators on the run and then call yourself profesional ???

joey100

I'm not talking about the in's and out's of what happened during the race Peter. My issue is with Sutton saying people not on the podium can't call out people on the podium over their professionalism. What ever way you look at it that's a load of crap. Sutton had his chance to address the issues brought up by YVK in his blog reply but instead comes out with stuff like this,

'She took longer than anyone else for her swim warm up? Boo hoo'

Saying she done it cos she's a warrior, even though it's directly against the rules and she was carded for it.

Let's move away from this race and say that if someone done something unprofessional in a race, what ever it may be, the only people who can call them on this is 2 of the other racers on the podium? That the 3 people on the podium can lecture others on their professionalism but are exempt from that themselves.

Sutton says,

'It’s not for those standing off the dais to be lecturing those on top of it about professionalism.'

Maybe there is more too it than meets the eye, maybe this is a long running thing but to come out with something like that is elitist and crazy. Just because your top of the podium doesn't mean you are anymore professional than anyone else and if you are a professional sports person you should be accountable and be able to be called out by your peers what ever their position in the race.

peter kern

so now your issue is with sutton
when originally you said its fine to call her out ?


and of ocurse i would agree with you sombody like sutton is not sombody that should tell ohter people how to be profesional as this will always backfire on him

joey100

What I originally said was


'I don't really like this line in his blog,

'It’s not for those standing off the dais to be lecturing those on top of it about professionalism.'

I think it's a good thing when athletes call each other out. Just because your standing on the podium doesn't mean you are anymore professional than anyone else and doesn't mean your opinion counts more than anyone else's.'



My comments from the start where about what Sutton said.

I also originally said,

'I can see where he (Sutton) is coming from. Athletes shouldn't be expected to be meeting fans for 5-6 hours a day coming up to race day but if that is the norm then it should be the same for everyone.'

So I have a lot of sympathy for the situation Ryf found herself in, it's not an ideal run up to a race by a long shot, and if she wants to miss it that's her choice but don't be all offended when someone says you weren't there and writes about it.