TDF Stage 12: 214.5km Pau-Peyragudes

rtmie

pelevin wrote: »

Landa who I think is out of contract this autumn should surely be the rider to sign for any team looking to have a serious gc rider in the big tours. After riding the Giro & though able to measure his efforts to stages rather than the overall after his crash & injuries  he was still very impressive and is now 7th here less than 3 minutes down - over a minute up on Quintana for instance. That he is a domestique here is just a ridiculous sporting travesty in terms of a proper division of talent.

Isn't he going to Movistar. With the above plus Quintana's relatively quiet showing he could be a GC contender next year.

rtmie

Eamonnator wrote: »

lissard wrote: »

and they'll really hate that the guy is the Italian champion ;-)

Sorry.
Complete brain fart.

Well Bardet could be in yellow at the presentations tomorrow - thought that you were making that prediction!!!:)

Itziger

Somedude9 wrote: »

Shots of Portal having peeved words with Landa . Looked like he was called back at one stage in the run-in.

Calling a fella back on that climb is meaningless; there was only 200 metres left if that. Would he have been able to help Froome?

Lusk_Doyle

Itziger wrote: »

Somedude9 wrote: »

Shots of Portal having peeved words with Landa . Looked like he was called back at one stage in the run-in.

Calling a fella back on that climb is meaningless; there was only 200 metres left if that. Would he have been able to help Froome?

About 200 metres of help?

pelevin

rtmie wrote: »

Isn't he going to Movistar. With the above plus Quintana's relatively quiet showing he could be a GC contender next year.

Yeah I'd heard Movistar was likely. Where they already have Quintana I'd have hoped though he'd be the outright leader with some other team. Quintana after trying the Giro Tour double may just have bitten off too much though he was lacking in last year's Tour also.

dastardly00

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

About 200 metres of help?

It was every man for himself at that point.

The drafting effect would have been negligible at that gradient.

The only benefit would be if Landa was beside Froome shouting encouragement at him! Ole, ole, ole :pac:

Somedude9

Itziger wrote: »

Calling a fella back on that climb is meaningless; there was only 200 metres left if that. Would he have been able to help Froome?

Not so much a help, it was more a case of he's upping the pace wasn't helping. Otherwise why tell him to slow down?

Itziger

Somedude9 wrote: »

Not so much a help, it was more a case of he's upping the pace wasn't helping. Otherwise why tell him to slow down?

But he didn't up the pace. It was the others who attacked and Froome followed. Landa didn't repass Froome till 140 metres to go. I got the feeling he was trying to stop opponents picking up bonus seconds, which would have been handy. At that stage his leader was having trouble turning the pedals - there's not much you can do in that case other than give him a good push.

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/eurosportbrightcove/?title=Last+Km+of+Stage+12&dashboard=tour-de-france&id=5506299345001&yr=2017

pelevin

Apparently Landa has said in interview that if given the freedom he could or would have won the stage. A few cracks appearing there! I'd not feel too much sympathy for Landa though given that in joining Sky he hardly could have imagined there'd be any personal freedom when the team was ever in a grand tour with Froome as team leader. If he wants the chance of the highest honours, then go somewhere he's not most likely going to be paid to sacrifice himself. He must have passed Froome in the finale there though which would be a pretty odd thing to do given that I don't think the stage was even on offer for him at that point & at 3 minutes down he's not quite in the mix for the overall. That he couldn't have offered much in the way of help is true too though but in terms of team unity it could have consequences as it already looks like might be the case to some degree.

velo.2010

Landa has been effectively forced to sit up and save his energy for the first half of the race. He is playing a similar role that Poels has played the last 2 years. That he is within 3 minutes of the leader at this stage and looking as strong as he did today, makes him an interesting subplot to this race.

Everybody believes he is on his way out of team Sky. Does he play ball and bury himself from now on for Froome? Or does he look to improve his credentials as a GC rider if he hasn't already been snapped up? If he sniffs a chance of a stage win, while Froome is suffering, I think he'll go for it.

Somedude9

Itziger wrote: »

But he didn't up the pace. It was the others who attacked and Froome followed. Landa didn't repass Froome till 140 metres to go. I got the feeling he was trying to stop opponents picking up bonus seconds, which would have been handy. At that stage his leader was having trouble turning the pedals - there's not much you can do in that case other than give him a good push.

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/eurosportbrightcove/?title=Last+Km+of+Stage+12&dashboard=tour-de-france&id=5506299345001&yr=2017

He did; it occurred before that clip & it looked to me that it was Froome who told him to slow down. Also it's been said he got a talking to after the stage by Portal, it certainly looked that way to me on the TV.

neris

Uran & Bennett given 20 second penalty for taking drinks off spectators but bardet did the same and no penalty

Boscoirl

That finish was mental

DominoDub

neris wrote: »

Uran & Bennett given 20 second penalty for taking drinks off spectators but bardet did the same and no penalty

French are claiming he did not drink it only used to cool down

neris

DominoDub wrote: »

French are claiming he did not drink it only used to cool down

Sounds like a father Ted Kinda excuse

happytramp

DominoDub wrote: »

French are claiming he did not drink it only used to cool down

Apparently ITV have a video showing him clearly drinking from it...:D

Lusk_Doyle

happytramp wrote: »

DominoDub wrote: »

French are claiming he did not drink it only used to cool down

Apparently ITV have a video showing him clearly drinking from it...:D

Or cooling down his throat.

koutoubia

https://twitter.com/Manufs90/status/885524665741045761


Landa gets a bollocking from his DS.

Somedude9

" Don't be making Froome look bad " ?

Taxuser1

Seems Landa is the 2012 Chris Froome. Waiting for an impetuous arm wave next week when he sets too high a tempo in the Alps that Froome can't hold.

Burial.

pelevin wrote: »

Yeah I'd heard Movistar was likely. Where they already have Quintana I'd have hoped though he'd be the outright leader with some other team. Quintana after trying the Giro Tour double may just have bitten off too much though he was lacking in last year's Tour also.

Giro Tour double is pretty much impossible now I feel. I mean Quintana couldn't even complete the first leg. A Contador in pretty amazing condition failed on two attempts. Granted he ended up losing the '11 Giro off the bike, I feel if he had planned the Giro Tour double at the start of the year and not in June deciding to go for it he would have done it or come very close. He was riddled with crashes in that Tour, and he could have taken the Giro a little handy instead of destroying the field to shreds at every attempt, leaving something in the tank for the Tour, but he hadn't the Tour on his mind back then.

I guess Froome with the strong team behind him could come close, he's nearly done the Tour/Vuelta, but I dunno, seems mythical now.

StevieGriff

pelevin wrote: »

When Sky domestiques are that good, it stops the plausibility of attacking racing - and that makes for very uninteresting viewing - like the dirge of last year's mountain stages. The idea the rest of the cycling teams are making "half assed GC efforts" is just the equivalent of moronic propagandist garbage. "If only they'd train a bit harder instead of eating junk food, swilling beers and wallowing about the pool."

Martin given one Domestique. Movistar with a duel leadership deal leaning slightly toward a fat looking Quintana over a 37-year-old. Various Frenchmen that blow hot and cold. Aru and Astana that almost seem happy to race for a podium instead of a win (working for Froome to chase down Bardet the last day!). None of that seems half assed to you?
Personally, I thought Porte would wear yellow in Paris, BMC are strong and Porte has the same sh1t or bust attitude as Froom.

JK.BMC

For the love of Jayzus I hope the guys in the top 10 collude early tomorrow and attack; Uran for example should try get some sort of Columbian mafia alliance, pull in Contador and Pierre Rolland aswell for example. And feck the lot of them wait for no man!
We are expecting some fireworks but if they all decode to settle for top 10 then I'm watching the tennis instead! 2011 stage to Alpe dHuez was pure brilliance from the start - hope we get the same tomorrow

Burial.

Bardet has balls, he'll go for it..I'm sure Aru realises he needs a lot more time on Froome. Contador is Contador so if he is in any feck he'll help cause chaos with his suicide attacks. Quintana too probably. Tomorrow is Bastille day so I expect the likes of Pinot and Pierre Rolland to be active and maybe allies to Bardet. I think Uran will play it more conservatively because he's a strong TTer and might even fancy his chances of beating Froome on that.

However with no yellow jersey I feel Sky will send Landa and Kwiat up the road and help Froome if he's weak or if he's feeling strong to platform him to cause serious damage.

Stage should be class, but not getting my hopes up for a belter just yet.

pelevin

StevieGriff wrote: »

Martin given one Domestique. Movistar with a duel leadership deal leaning slightly toward a fat looking Quintana over a 37-year-old. Various Frenchmen that blow hot and cold. Aru and Astana that almost seem happy to race for a podium instead of a win (working for Froome to chase down Bardet the last day!). None of that seems half assed to you?
Personally, I thought Porte would wear yellow in Paris, BMC are strong and Porte has the same sh1t or bust attitude as Froom.

I don't think there's a whole lot of objectivity to respond to here. For instance "a fat looking Quintana & a 37 year old." Apart from fattty Quintana, implying the 37 year old isn't up to much to the point that his name isn't even worth mentioning. This year that 37 year old has won the Vuelta a Murcia, the Vuelta a Andalucia for the 5th time in 6 years, 3 stages & the overall of the Vuelta a Catalunya, the Tour of the Basque Country, la Fleche Wallone for the 4th consecutive year & of course Liege-Bastogne-Liege. How half assed must everyone else be to be dominated by a 37 year old?

We saw last year a Tour where pretty much nothing happened in the mountains as Sky had riders easily strong enough to reel in any & pretty much every attacks, & where Dan Martin said afterwards that the big lesson he learnt was not to attack as it was self-defeating. We saw in the final day of the Dauphine this year how thrilling cycling can be when a team doesn't dominate proceedings. Poels, Sky's best domestique last year, even said that it must be pretty boring to watch the way Sky ride those mountain stages, snuffing out all action & that he'd hate to be trying to ride against it. Unless a rider is incredibly strong, what can they do? Well I find it horribly frustrating to watch & I don't see how anyone who loves cycling would feel otherwise.

And to add, should Movistar produce world-class cyclists out of thin air to contend if Quintana and Valverde aren't good enough besides other teams with their hot & cold Frenchmen, etc. Who are these cyclists who aren't half assed who should be up there instead good enough to break free from world-class riders like Landa working as domestiques?

Kaisr Sose

irishrover99 wrote: »

While i'd love that to happen, they sponsor too many teams now and the amount of employees that would lose their jobs if they were banned.

Don't agree. It would be like other training aids, e.g. turbo trainers, you use them for pre and post race. Nobody would loose their jobs.

StevieGriff

pelevin wrote: »

I don't think there's a whole lot of objectivity to respond to here. For instance "a fat looking Quintana & a 37 year old." Apart from fattty Quintana, implying the 37 year old isn't up to much to the point that his name isn't even worth mentioning. This year that 37 year old has won the Vuelta a Murcia, the Vuelta a Andalucia for the 5th time in 6 years, 3 stages & the overall of the Vuelta a Catalunya, the Tour of the Basque Country, la Fleche Wallone for the 4th consecutive year & of course Liege-Bastogne-Liege. How half assed must everyone else be to be dominated by a 37 year old?

We saw last year a Tour where pretty much nothing happened in the mountains as Sky had riders easily strong enough to reel in any & pretty much every attacks, & where Dan Martin said afterwards that the big lesson he learnt was not to attack as it was self-defeating. We saw in the final day of the Dauphine this year how thrilling cycling can be when a team doesn't dominate proceedings. Poels, Sky's best domestique last year, even said that it must be pretty boring to watch the way Sky ride those mountain stages, snuffing out all action & that he'd hate to be trying to ride against it. Unless a rider is incredibly strong, what can they do? Well I find it horrible to watch & I don't see how anyone who loves cycling would feel otherwise.

I honestly do think Quintana looks fat at the moment. The Valverde comment was more tongue in cheek but as you pointed out, he's had a huge year for a man of his vintage and still probably would have gone better than Quintana.
It's the lack of people even wanting to try to upset Sky annoys me, so many racing to just hold their top 10 instead of risking it to move up. Try anything, ride up alongside the Sky train and spend 500m gently pushing the second man off the wheel.

Itziger

JK.BMC wrote: »

For the love of Jayzus I hope the guys in the top 10 collude early tomorrow and attack; Uran for example should try get some sort of Columbian mafia alliance, pull in Contador and Pierre Rolland aswell for example. And feck the lot of them wait for no man!
We are expecting some fireworks but if they all decode to settle for top 10 then I'm watching the tennis instead! 2011 stage to Alpe dHuez was pure brilliance from the start - hope we get the same tomorrow

Seemingly the last 75 metres of the last climb is brutal. Keep your eyes peeled.

pelevin

StevieGriff wrote: »

I honestly do think Quintana looks fat at the moment. The Valverde comment was more tongue in cheek but as you pointed out, he's had a huge year for a man of his vintage and still probably would have gone better than Quintana.
It's the lack of people even wanting to try to upset Sky annoys me, so many racing to just hold their top 10 instead of risking it to move up. Try anything, ride up alongside the Sky train and spend 500m gently pushing the second man off the wheel.

Well like Burial wrote a few posts back, perhaps the Giro Tour double is impossible now but I wouldn't be criticising Quintana for giving it a go. The opposite in fact, & I'd say it's the effects of that rather than anything to do with weight that have killed his chances.

I'd not disagree with the rest of your comment though, & I'd have loads of respect for teh way Bardet rides or tries to ride in terms of intent & not having too much respect for the opposition. I think generally Aru is an all-in kind of rider also. I actually think Porte is someone who has had much more issues that way in terms of lacking the spirit of a hungry champion. I don't think Aru or Bardet would have been waiting till their 30s to be team leader in a TdF! Porte looks like he'd have had a great chance this year agreed after Froome's weakness today & his lack of dominance all year also lest it be forgot too quickly.

Kaisr Sose

koutoubia wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Manufs90/status/885524665741045761


Landa gets a bollocking from his DS.

In SKY speil "You Fkd up a potential marginal gain"

I thought Landa was awesome. He could have went harder. From on was slow on the wheel when Bennett attacked so I knew he was burning oil at that stage. Good ride by Dan but with the four ahead of him going really well, getting back the 1.15 he lost on Sunday will be difficult. If Froome blows up on a hard day....:D