Pakistani businessman wants to convert historic convent into a Mosque

AnGaelach

Not sure whether there's already a thread on the topic or not

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/row-breaks-out-over-proposed-plans-to-convert-historic-convent-into-mosque-35924150.html

Personally, I would be very much opposed to this. We are not an Islamic country, and while I believe in their right to practice their religion, I don't believe it should be extended to the construction of/conversion into mosques. It's just going to give the anti-Islamists something to harass by doing things like sending pages of the Quran and bacon, and we know all too well from the experiences in continental Europe how insidious Saudi money can be towards mosques.

I also can't imagine it doing too-well in Roscommon of all places.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I'd have absolutely no problem with it.

JMNolan

I dunno, the demand for churches is falling and the demand for mosques is growing. If we don't do something with the buildings they'll be set on fire. Like St. Kevins in Cork

Joey Jo-Jo Junior

AnGaelach wrote: »

while I believe in their right to practice their religion, I don't believe it should be extended to the construction of/conversion into mosques. It's just going to give the anti-Islamists something to harass by doing things like sending pages of the Quran and bacon,

Go back and read this bit again very very carefully. Very.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Ballaghaderreen has a large Muslim population so having a mosque there would make more sense than most places. The nearby town of Ballyhaunis has a mosque.

That said, I believe this is the same guy who poppped up claiming to speak for the Syrian refugees in Ballagh, complaining about everything. He seems like an utter prick who is trying to use the refugees to promote himself and pressure the government for funding.

johnnyskeleton

AnGaelach wrote: »

We are not an Islamic country, and while I believe in their right to practice their religion, I don't believe it should be extended to the construction of/conversion into mosques.

Where then should they practise their faith? Don't forget that the British refused to allow Catholic Churches to be built or retained, resulting in masses taking place at rocks and in fields. So basically not allowing people to have a house of worship is part of a campaign to deny them their right to practise their religion.

It's just going to give the anti-Islamists something to harass by doing things like sending pages of the Quran and bacon

That's a bit of a strange argument. Refuse to let people exercise their rights because it might encourage other people to harass them! It's not a million miles away from the argument that women should be forced into Burkhas to stop men objectifying them on the street.

and we know all too well from the experiences in continental Europe how insidious Saudi money can be towards mosques.

There is a legitimate issue of concern about Saudi government funding of mosques, particularly since the Saudi sponsored forms of Islam - Wahabism etc - tend to be extremist views. But this isn't a case of Saudi money paying for it. It seems to be one man taking on a project, not a State backed project.

Glenster

House for pretend Christian god gets magic water sprinkled on it and becomes house for pretend Islamic god. The world turns.

Instead of a priest in a dress preaching about how a book from 2000 years ago is the literal world of god and we're all sinners and women cant be priests and we should all fast and give him our money, there'll be someone with a different accent and a slightly newer book.

Gazzmonkey

JMNolan wrote: »

The demand for churches is falling and the demand for mosques is growing.

That doesn't sound good, Islam is on the march

Hilly Bill

It's being unoccupied for 20 years so what's wrong with someone wanting to use it again for a place of worship.?

AnGaelach

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It's being unoccupied for 20 years so what's wrong with someone wanting to use it again for a place of worship.?

The fact we're not an Islamic country?

bodice ripper

AnGaelach wrote:

The fact we're not an Islamic country?

So, you actually think there should be no non Catholic worship...?

Hitman3000

AnGaelach wrote:

Personally, I would be very much opposed to this. We are not an Islamic country, and while I believe in their right to practice their religion, I don't believe it should be extended to the construction of/conversion into mosques. It's just going to give the anti-Islamists something to harass by doing things like sending pages of the Quran and bacon, and we know all too well from the experiences in continental Europe how insidious Saudi money can be towards mosques.

Once he uses private money no state funding to praise invisible friends/ deities etc and it is not used for radicalization, couldn't care less. Buildings down through the ages have been adapted for different purposes.

The_Kew_Tour

As a person who wants this country to help genuine people fleeing war his comments disappoint me.

If it's such a bad place they can go back to where they came from if they like. What he wants is these people to get nice big houses and cars while we work for it. I don't want them going without food and shelter and I don't want them in a kip but I guarantee what they have right now is 100 times better then what they fled.

biko

Info missing is what sect of Islam will attend the mosque?
Who will sponsor it? Saudi Arabia? Qatar?

Tbh, I'd rather not replace one bad religion with a worse one.

AnGaelach

bodice ripper wrote: »

So, you actually think there should be no non Catholic worship...?

No, I simply don't wish Islam to be endorsed in Ireland. We've seen the disastrous effect of allowing mosques to pop up in Britain and continental Europe. I'd rather not replicate it here.

Yourself isit

Glenster wrote: »

House for pretend Christian god gets magic water sprinkled on it and becomes house for pretend Islamic god. The world turns.

Instead of a priest in a dress preaching about how a book from 2000 years ago is the literal world of god and we're all sinners and women cant be priests and we should all fast and give him our money, there'll be someone with a different accent and a slightly newer book.

Catholicism never actually taught the Bible as literal.

El Weirdo

AnGaelach wrote: »

No, I simply don't wish Islam to be endorsed in Ireland. We've seen the disastrous effect of allowing mosques to pop up in Britain and continental Europe. I'd rather not replicate it here.

So, when you said...

AnGaelach wrote: »

...while I believe in their right to practice their religion...

... you were talking complete bollocks?

bodice ripper

AnGaelach wrote:

No, I simply don't wish Islam to be endorsed in Ireland. We've seen the disastrous effect of allowing mosques to pop up in Britain and continental Europe. I'd rather not replicate it here.

So...no mosques specifically. That seems a bit discriminatory.

Winterlong

What would you suggest to do with the building OP?
Convert it in to a night club? A pub? A cattle shed? Or just force the locals to start going to mass...regardless of their faith.

Hitman3000

Yourself isit wrote:

Catholicism never actually taught the Bible as literal.

You ever hear about the Spanish Inquisition?

wanderer100

AnGaelach wrote: »

No, I simply don't wish Islam to be endorsed in Ireland. We've seen the disastrous effect of allowing mosques to pop up in Britain and continental Europe. I'd rather not replicate it here.

So your saying if we have more mosques in this country, then there is more chance of a terrorist attack happening ???? These terrorists don't plot and scheme in mosques you know. You clearly have never been to a mosque before

AnGaelach

El Weirdo wrote: »

So, when you said...

... you were talking complete bollocks?

They can practice it in the privacy of their homes, but I certainly don't agree with endorsing it publicly. I'm also against allowing scientology to set up shop in Ireland, but that doesn't mean I'm going to force them to recant their beliefs or face the rod ffs.

Grayson

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Where then should they practise their faith? Don't forget that the British refused to allow Catholic Churches to be built or retained, resulting in masses taking place at rocks and in fields. So basically not allowing people to have a house of worship is part of a campaign to deny them their right to practise their religion.

That's it. Try to make him figure out who he hates more, the brits or the muslims

AnGaelach

bodice ripper wrote: »

So...no mosques specifically. That seems a bit discriminatory.

Well that is because it is. You don't see Hindus blowing up children in Manchester, or Orthodox Christians radicalising themselves in preparation for religious conflict.

.......

This post has been deleted.

Grayson

AnGaelach wrote: »

They can practice it in the privacy of their homes, but I certainly don't agree with endorsing it publicly. I'm also against allowing scientology to set up shop in Ireland, but that doesn't mean I'm going to force them to recant their beliefs or face the rod ffs.

yet a religion that locked up young women and protected paedophiles is grand.

AnGaelach

wanderer100 wrote: »

So your saying if we have more mosques in this country, then there is more chance of a terrorist attack happening ???? These terrorists don't plot and scheme in mosques you know. You clearly have never been to a mosque before

Where do you think radicalisation has occurred? We've already had an Islamic cleric tell us there's rampant radicalisation going on in the Mosque in Clonskeagh.


Or is he a filthy Islamaphobe?

Yourself isit

Hitman3000 wrote: »

You ever hear about the Spanish Inquisition?

What has that got to do with Bible literalism?

Grayson

AnGaelach wrote: »

Well that is because it is. You don't see Hindus blowing up children in Manchester, or Orthodox Christians radicalising themselves in preparation for religious conflict.

No you see hindus killing people who eat beef in India. You see hindu's committing honor attacks in the UK. You see Hindu's killing and rioting because there are muslims nearby in India.

Strangely you do occasionally see Irish Catholics blowing up kids in the UK. Or killing cops in Ireland. Should we think carefully about having Irish catholics who believe in a republic in this country?

Number of attack by Irish republicans in Ireland = fcuk loads.
Number of attacks by muslims = 0

But yeah, lets be scared of the brown skinned ones. They're soooooo dangerous.

AnGaelach

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That's a false dichotomy. Does political freedom in Germany extend to being members of neo-Nazi groups? No. We have the right, as a sovereign people, to choose who we wish to allow in our society and who we do not.

It's not an ultimate right that triumphs will.

Grayson wrote: »

yet a religion that locked up young women and protected paedophiles is grand.

Catholicism is on the decline, Islam is not. Catholicism isn't killing children and gearing itself up for religious war, Islam is.

You see how your whataboutery is essentially irrelevant?

Hitman3000

[quote=AnGaelach Orthodox Christians radicalising themselves in preparation for religious conflict.[/quote]


I suggest you research some of the Christian groups in the States. BTW Jim Jones was a Christian.

Hitman3000

Yourself isit wrote:

What has that got to do with Bible literalism?

Justification, thought it was obvious.

AnGaelach

Grayson wrote: »

No you see hindus killing people who eat beef in India. You see hindu's committing honor attacks in the UK. You see Hindu's killing and rioting because there are muslims nearby in India.

Strangely you do occasionally see Irish Catholics blowing up kids in the UK. Or killing cops in Ireland. Should we think carefully about having Irish catholics who believe in a republic in this country?

Number of attack by Irish republicans in Ireland = fcuk loads.
Number of attacks by muslims = 0

The problem is that Irish people are native to Ireland, Islam is not.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

AnGaelach wrote: »

The fact we're not an Islamic country?

We're not supposed to be an any religion country. We are a secular republic. And I am a practicing catholic of deep faith. Do you maintain we are a Catholic country or a Christian Country? What about the synagogue? Should it be dismantled or turned I to a convent for no existent nuns? Or are you proposing we become an 'anything but Muslim' country?

WinnyThePoo

AnGaelach wrote: »

The problem is that Irish people are native to Ireland, Islam is not.

#whitegenocide

Grayson

AnGaelach wrote: »

Catholicism is on the decline, Islam is not. Catholicism isn't killing children and gearing itself up for religious war, Islam is.

You see how your whataboutery is essentially irrelevant?

hahaha

That is paranoid in the extreme. Islam, the whole of fcuking islam, is gearing up for a war?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

AnGaelach wrote: »

Well that is because it is. You don't see Hindus blowing up children in Manchester, or Orthodox Christians radicalising themselves in preparation for religious conflict.

We saw many so called Roman Catholics blow up innocents here and in Manchester.

AnGaelach

Grayson wrote: »

hahaha

That is paranoid in the extreme. Islam, the whole of fcuking islam, is gearing up for a war?

A very significant portion of it is, aye. Or have you not been watching the news for the last couple of years?

Grayson

AnGaelach wrote: »

The problem is that Irish people are native to Ireland, Islam is not.

What are you talking about? Irish people are a mixture of english, norman, scots and spanish with loads others. Christianity isn't native to here either.

Also, people are religion are different. You might as well say that the red squirrel is native to here, socialism isn't. It's a sentence that literally makes no sense.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

AnGaelach wrote: »

The problem is that Irish people are native to Ireland, Islam is not.

Grand so. We'll chuck out the Christians too and get the Druids back, as the native religion.

Grayson

AnGaelach wrote: »

A very significant portion of it is, aye. Or have you not been watching the news for the last couple of years?

Yeah, the west has been bombing the crap out of the middle east. Thanks to two invasions of Iraq literally millions have died.

sbsquarepants

AnGaelach wrote: »

The fact we're not an Islamic country?

Meh,

Being a catholic country didn't work out too great did it.

We should have a go at just being a country and leave the imaginary friends out of it altogether?

Lux23

I have no problem with this, sure isn't there mosques that used to be synagogues?

ScumLord

AnGaelach wrote: »

The problem is that Irish people are native to Ireland, Islam is not.

People aren't native to Ireland, and we've been far more destructive to this island than any ideal that came with us. Other things that come from the same part of the world as Islam are Christianity, cattle, sheep, wheat, farming in general, numbers, towns and cities. Islanders like us can't cut ourselves off from the rest of the world or we'd still be running around fields (well forest but they're all gone now) throwing stones at animals.

AnGaelach

Roger Orange Skull wrote: »

We're not supposed to be an any religion country. We are a secular republic. And I am a practicing catholic of deep faith. Do you maintain we are a Catholic country or a Christian Country? What about the synagogue? Should it be dismantled or turned I to a convent for no existent nuns? Or are you proposing we become an 'anything but Muslim' country?

Well, we're not truly secular, the prologue of Bunreacht na hÉireann makes mention of our Catholic culture. So much so that the Supreme Court has interpreted legislation with due respect to the "Christian and democratic nature of the State". I'm not a practising Catholic, but to say we aren't a Catholic country is a bit of a misnomer. We don't have a State religion but we certainly do have a cultural one.

I'm proposing we don't make the mistake Germany, France, Sweden, Britain, Belgium, Netherlands, and Denmark made by allowing mosques to flourish within our territory.

AnGaelach

Grayson wrote: »

Yeah, the west has been bombing the crap out of the middle east. Thanks to two invasions of Iraq literally millions have died.

I don't remember little girls in a Manchester concert being instrumental in Operation Desert Storm.

Hitman3000

AnGaelach wrote:

A very significant portion of it is, aye. Or have you not been watching the news for the last couple of years?

Over a billion Muslims, can you provide figures as to what significant portion you're referring too?

ScumLord

AnGaelach wrote: »

I don't remember little girls in a Manchester concert being instrumental in Operation Desert Storm.

Operation desert storm bombed villages and wiped out entire families. The west promotes the idea that we live in a democracy and the people are in charge. If the western powers are going to blanket bomb an entire region killing indiscriminately then they can't really cry foul when the enemy makes a counter attack that also kills civilians, the people supposedly in charge of the country. When they kill western soldiers it doesn't even get our attention, it's not really surprising they've cut out the middleman and attacked civilians directly, we're the ones that have the power to affect change. The ordinary citizens of a country with an active military don't get a free pass, they can't send their goons in and then act surprised when they end up under fire too.

Hitman3000

AnGaelach wrote:

Well, we're not truly secular, the prologue of Bunreacht na hÉireann makes mention of our Catholic culture. So much so that the Supreme Court has interpreted legislation with due respect to the "Christian and democratic nature of the State". I'm not a practising Catholic, but to say we aren't a Catholic country is a bit of a misnomer. We don't have a State religion but we certainly do have a cultural one.

A constitution wrote in the 30's by a bunch of religious influenced individuals with an eye to Rome. Times change, God and all references to invisible sky fairies should be removed from it.

Grayson

AnGaelach wrote: »

I don't remember little girls in a Manchester concert being instrumental in Operation Desert Storm.

What was it you said about whatabouttery?

Mrs OBumble

AnGaelach wrote: »

Catholicism is on the decline

Have you got a source for that? It's true in Ireland based on census figures - but internationally it's not AFAIK.


By the OP's logic, no Catholic churches should ever have been built in America, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Would that have been OK?