Official Conor McGregor thread (part 4) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

Frank Bullitt

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Nice of you to admit it :P

He was the one making the claim my friend

And I believe we had been over your post before about his use of stance in MMA etc, no?

walshb

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

How you can give Aldo credit for having good boxing skills but not give Conor credit for having *some* boxing proficiency?

Conor bate him with a punch like

Technically and fundamentally looking I think Aldo has the better boxing game..

I never said Conor has 0 proficiency..

But, how about you guys...

Aldo v McGregor 12 rds boxing match?

Tell you one thing, be far better spectacle than Aug 26..

wonderfullife

Gintonious wrote: »

AKA, I can't prove my ridiculous claim so I won't answer.

If boxers were able to win in something closer to a "real fight", aka MMA, where many weapons can be used not just fists... then we'd see more boxers come straight over to MMA.

Part of the reason we don't see many crossovers from MMA to boxing is because MMA fighters are not protected by the Ali Act. They can't just waltz out of their contract to go fight in boxing.

Boxers ARE protected by the Ali Act and CAN walk straight into MMA. If they fancied their chances in a "real fight" they'd go fight in one.

Guillermo Rigondeaux is arguably the best super bantamweight (122lbs) in the world depending who you believe. He got paid $120,000 for his last fight on the Andre Ward undercard. Demetrious Johnson is unquestionably the best flyweight (125lbs) in the UFC. He received $480,000 for his last fight.

Mairis Briedis is the WBC cruiserweight world champion. He got paid $80,000 in his last fight. Meanwhile DC got paid $1,000,000 + PPV points. If Rigondeaux or Briedis fancied their chances in a "real fight", they'd be over fighting in the UFC for double or triple the money.

I'm not debating this. You're delusional if you think boxers are better all-around fighters than mixed martial artists. It's a juvenile argument settled in the minds of most sane people 15 years ago and it's not doing any favours to the thread.

EagererBeaver

wonderfullife wrote: »

Agree to disagree.

Not so fast if you don't mind. You pride yourself on reasoned, evidence based posting, so please address the following massive contradiction.

McGregor Vs Mayweather: within the confines of this fight, Conor has a chance. Those dismissing his chances and completely writing him off are hugely disrespectful to his abilities and hard work, regardless of the fact that he is a novice going up against an all time great. Suggesting top level amateurs at a national and international level and world class boxers of similarly would manhandle McGregor in the confines of a boxing match is similarly ludicrous and disrespectful. His chance is small but he has a chance because of his powerful left and fact he boxes as part of his MMA regimen.

Elite Boxer vs MMA fighter in MMA fight: any top 2000 MMA fighter dominates an elite boxer, because, well...?

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

If boxers were able to win in something closer to a "MMA fight", aka MMA, where many weapons can be used not just fists... then we'd see more boxers come straight over to MMA.

Part of the reason we don't see many crossovers from MMA to boxing is because MMA fighters are not protected by the Ali Act. They can't just waltz out of their contract to go fight in boxing.

Boxers ARE protected by the Ali Act and CAN walk straight into MMA. If they fancied their chances in a "MMA fight" they'd go fight in one.

Guillermo Rigondeaux is arguably the best super bantamweight (122lbs) in the world depending who you believe. He got paid $120,000 for his last fight on the Andre Ward undercard. Demetrious Johnson is unquestionably the best flyweight (125lbs) in the UFC. He received $480,000 for his last fight.

Mairis Briedis is the WBC cruiserweight world champion. He got paid $80,000 in his last fight. Meanwhile DC got paid $1,000,000 + PPV points. If Rigondeaux or Briedis fancied their chances in a "MMA fight", they'd be over fighting in the UFC for double or triple the money.

I'm not debating this. You're delusional if you think boxers are better all-around fighters than mixed martial artists. It's a juvenile argument settled in the minds of most sane people 15 years ago and it's not doing any favours to the thread.

I fixed your post for you, just to give you a little help.

Have I said that boxers are better all-around fighters than MMA fighters? Don't think so pet.

Firstly, Briedis and Rigondeaux wouldn't generate any kind of interest to automatically triple their money, they also don't really need to "fancy their chances" in an MMA fight because why would they? You're making up some dream scenario of boxers coming to MMA to try and prove something, when right now it is the opposite with Conor coming to boxing because there isn't a hope in hell of him making 100,000,000 in one night in MMA.

Again, for your own sake, drop the "real fight" garbage. If you go into boxing, you play by those rules, if you go to MMA, you go by those rules as well. Its that simple. You are using this "real fight" nonsense to make MMA fighters out to be some sort super solider the world has never seen before, when they are just athletes (like boxers) in their own prescribed sport.

Get over yourself.

thewheel2.0

walshb wrote: »

Technically and fundamentally looking I think Aldo has the better boxing game..

I never said Conor has 0 proficiency..

But, how about you guys...

Aldo v McGregor 12 rds boxing match?

Tell you one thing, be far better spectacle than Aug 26..

I'll humour you, although I think you just want to distract me

Depends on what Aldo we are comparing Aldo of early 2014 or current Aldo (that has been heavily KO'd and then TKO'd thanks to McGregor softening him up ) ?

• Aldo has a better jab, I'll give you that.
• That's not enough to save him from Conors power though, which would still land.
• Having said that, boxing gloves might just be enough of an equaliser that Aldo can survive.
• If Conor does not have to worry about his legendary leg kicks he can land at will
• We have seen in 13 seconds that he has better timing, head movement and speed - that will fade over twelve rounds but it's enough for a win.

It's not a better spectacle. However, if it goes 12 rounds it could be a more exciting bout as both men will go for it and not be as defensive.

Frank Bullitt

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Not so fast if you don't mind. You pride yourself on reasoned, evidence based posting, so please address the following massive contradiction.

McGregor Vs Mayweather: within the confines of this fight, Conor has a chance. Those dismissing his chances and completely writing him off are hugely disrespectful to his abilities and hard work, regardless of the fact that he is a novice going up against an all time great. Suggesting top level amateurs at a national and international level and world class boxers of similarly would manhandle McGregor in the confines of a boxing match is similarly ludicrous and disrespectful. His chance is small but he has a chance because of his powerful left and fact he boxes as part of his MMA regimen.

Elite Boxer vs MMA fighter in MMA fight: any top 2000 MMA fighter dominates an elite boxer, because, well...?

But in a "real fight"...

thewheel2.0

Gintonious wrote: »

But in a "real fight"...

How is this even a debate?

Surely both sides agree that bar a punchers chance in both cases:
a) Boxers win the vast majority of Boxing bouts in a cross over
b) MMA fighters would win the vast majority of MMA/Street fights

Frank Bullitt

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

How is this even a debate?

Surely both sides agree that bar a punchers chance in both cases:
a) Boxers win the vast majority of Boxing bouts in a cross over
b) MMA fighters would win the vast majority of MMA/Street fights

Agreed, in which case in a boxing fight between a boxer and an MMA fighter, the boxer is the elite, better skilled athlete.

In an MMA fight between a boxer and an MMA fighter, the MMA fighter is the elite, better skilled athlete.

darced

This post has been deleted.

wonderfullife

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Elite Boxer vs MMA fighter in MMA fight: any top 2000 MMA fighter dominates an elite boxer, because, well...?

Basically go watch Randy v James Toney.

You need years and years of wrestling, grappling, jiujitsu, muay-thai, karate, boxing etc to simply even hang in there for a minute.

The reason it's vastly different in reverse is that Conor has 18 years boxing experience. He started boxing when he was 11 and from everything I've read he has been boxing consistently for all that time. He was even teaching the boxing class in SBG as far back as 2011.

Jessica Ennis started off her athletics career as a 100m hurdles specialist. She won gold in the Junior Commonwealth Games. Her coach then persuaded her to try the Heptathlon, she learned new skills and won gold in London 2012.

What Conor is doing is the same as if Jessica returned to do the 100m hurdles... she might not be able to beat the very best but she sure knows what she's doing returning to her base specialty. The 100m hurdles specialist wouldn't have a prayer in reverse against her in the heptathlon.

Now let's move on.

EagererBeaver

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

How is this even a debate?

Surely both sides agree that bar a punchers chance in both cases:
a) Boxers win the vast majority of Boxing bouts in a cross over
b) MMA fighters would win the vast majority of MMA/Street fights

I am 100% in agreement with the above.

The issue I have is that Wonder and others, out of one side their mouths have complained that McGregor and the sport of MMA itself are being massively disrespected by those who suggest he has no chance in a boxing match against an all time boxing great and then, out of the other side, declare that of course any bum MMA fighter would annihilate elite boxers in an MMA bout.

Two sides of the same coin but somehow one is disrespectful and offensive and the other isn't. Madness.

EagererBeaver

wonderfullife wrote: »

Basically go watch Randy v James Toney.

You need years and years of wrestling, grappling, jiujitsu, muay-thai, karate, boxing etc to simply even hang in there for a minute.

Simplistic and easily countered. First of all, Randy Couture is not a "top 2000" MMA fighter. He's a two weight UFC champion ffs. Elite vs elite.

Secondly, "basically go watch Ray Mercer Vs Tim Sylvia."

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

Basically go watch Randy v James Toney.

You need years and years of wrestling, grappling, jiujitsu, muay-thai, karate, boxing etc to simply even hang in there for a minute.

The reason it's vastly different in reverse is that Conor has 18 years boxing experience. He started boxing when he was 11 and from everything I've read he has been boxing consistently for all that time. He was even teaching the boxing class in SBG as far back as 2011.

Jessica Ennis started off her athletics career as a 100m hurdles specialist. She won gold in the Junior Commonwealth Games. Her coach then persuaded her to try the Heptathlon, she learned new skills and won gold in London 2012.

What Conor is doing is the same as if Jessica returned to do the 100m hurdles... she might not be able to beat the very best but she sure knows what she's doing returning to her base specialty. The 100m hurdles specialist wouldn't have a prayer in reverse against her in the heptathlon.

Now let's move on.

Yet no amateur titles to speak of at all? While your point might be true, it doesn't paint a true picture. Boxing was PART of his training, it wasn't his full time vocation for training. There is a big difference.

wonderfullife

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Simplistic and easily countered. First of all, Randy Couture is not a "top 2000" MMA fighter. He's a two weight UFC champion ffs. Elite vs elite.

Secondly, "basically go watch Ray Mercer Vs Tim Sylvia."

I've watched it. Sylvia made a gentlemans agreement not to take Mercer to the ground because it was scheduled to be a boxing match until the commission said they would only sanction it as an MMA fight.

You can see very clearly from the fight that Tim made no effort to take him to the ground. He honoured his word and got KO'd for it. If no such agreement was in place, he'd have double-legged him and battered him into oblivion.

Ps. "Superstar" mixed martial artist Kimbo Slice destroyed Ray Mercer in an MMA bout. Tim Sylvia would have murdered Mercer if not for the gentlemans agreement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DahOLe5z3Ek

thewheel2.0

EagererBeaver wrote: »

I am 100% in agreement with the above.

The issue I have is that Wonder and others, out of one side their mouths have complained that McGregor and the sport of MMA itself are being massively disrespected by those who suggest he has no chance in a boxing match against an all time boxing great and then, out of the other side, declare that of course any bum MMA fighter would annihilate elite boxers in an MMA bout.

Two sides of the same coin but somehow one is disrespectful and offensive and the other isn't. Madness.

Damn, I tried to simplify the debate but I'm getting dragged in...

James Gallagher surely has enough BJJ to take down and submit Floyd and I've heard loads of people call him a bum

EagererBeaver

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

Damn, I tried to simplify the debate but I'm getting dragged in...

James Gallagher surely has enough BJJ to take down and submit Floyd and I've heard loads of people call him a bum

Does he have enough BJJ? 100% yes. Can't do it if he's been KOed with the first punch of the fight though.

EagererBeaver

wonderfullife wrote: »

I've watched it. Sylvia made a gentlemans agreement not to take Mercer to the ground because it was scheduled to be a boxing match until the commission said they would only sanction it as an MMA fight.

You can see very clearly from the fight that Tim made no effort to take him to the ground. He honoured his word and got KO'd for it. If no such agreement was in place, he'd have double-legged him and battered him into oblivion.

That's irrelevant. He took one punch off a 48 year old, fat, past it boxer and was knocked stiff in ten seconds. All MMA bouts start on the feet.

normanoffside

If Paulie had fought Floyd at any stage during his career you wuld hae gotten 20/1 on him. At this stage, after the Sam Eggington beating it woukd be closer to 100/1. Fact is Conor is now trading at 10/3.
Hopefully 8oz gloves are approved tomorrow, I'll have to get the credit card out again if Odds on Floyd improve. This fight is literally an intelligent gamblers dream.

.ak

So... Any McGregor news, or are we still trying to establish the winner of the MMA vs Boxing 2017 Pissing Contest? :pac:

wonderfullife

.ak wrote: »

So... Any McGregor news, or are we still trying to establish the winner of the MMA vs Boxing 2017 Pissing Contest? :pac:

Not sure if it's news but here's Max Kellerman and Stephen A. Smith coming out strongly in support of Conor's reaction to the claim of racism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPLhjmwbCV0

darced

This post has been deleted.

walshb

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

It's not a better spectacle. However, if it goes 12 rounds it could be a more exciting bout as both men will go for it and not be as defensive.

Not?

So a one sided beatdown is?

Unless you are trying to tell me that Conor/Floyd is the more fair and competitive fight? Are you saying this?

Aldo/Conor for me likely produces a better spectacle as regards action and competitiveness and thrill..

GerryDerpy

normanoffside wrote: »

If Paulie had fought Floyd at any stage during his career you wuld hae gotten 20/1 on him. At this stage, after the Sam Eggington beating it woukd be closer to 100/1. Fact is Conor is now trading at 10/3.
Hopefully 8oz gloves are approved tomorrow, I'll have to get the credit card out again if Odds on Floyd improve. This fight is literally an intelligent gamblers dream.

An intelligent man wouldn't gamble borrowed money.

El Caballo

wonderfullife wrote: »

Basically go watch Randy v James Toney.

You need years and years of wrestling, grappling, jiujitsu, muay-thai, karate, boxing etc to simply even hang in there for a minute.

The reason it's vastly different in reverse is that Conor has 18 years boxing experience. He started boxing when he was 11 and from everything I've read he has been boxing consistently for all that time. He was even teaching the boxing class in SBG as far back as 2011.

Jessica Ennis started off her athletics career as a 100m hurdles specialist. She won gold in the Junior Commonwealth Games. Her coach then persuaded her to try the Heptathlon, she learned new skills and won gold in London 2012.

What Conor is doing is the same as if Jessica returned to do the 100m hurdles... she might not be able to beat the very best but she sure knows what she's doing returning to her base specialty. The 100m hurdles specialist wouldn't have a prayer in reverse against her in the heptathlon.

Now let's move on.

Jessica Ennis won 2 silver medals at the youth commonwealth games(no golds) at the 100mh and the high jump and was already competing as a heptathlete years before that so I'm not sure where you get your "facts" from. But that is beside the point as Jess was world class as a junior at the 100mh and doing the other events does not technically affect her hurdling form like mms changes the striking form of a boxer. This doesn't even matter anyway as comparing Jessica Ennis World class ability at the 100mh as a junior to Conors boxing class is pure folly and insulting to Jess's ability.

At 19 years of age, Floyd Mayweather had an Olympic Bronze Medal and Conor McGregor had an underage All-ireland, even at that age before McGregor had turned to seriously training for MMA, The gulf in class was huge and now, Mayweather has the advantage of having 49 more bouts against pro boxers and hall of famers and 20 years of specialised training and sparring on top of that while McGregor has 9 years of bit part boxing and no professional bouts under his belt within a sport that has altered his fundamentals. The gap that was once a chasm has now grown into a black hole.

People talk about McGregors weight advantage and that Floyd has trouble with southpaw, those points are moot here as the fighters he has gone against have far higher boxing iq's than McGregor and have also got more weapons. People talk about McGregors straight left and ko power but that's all he has got and against a top pro and the greatest boxers of all-time, what makes a single shot so potent is an arsenal of other weapons to make those guys walk into the signature shot. Floyd, a guy who is known as elusive and almost impossible to cut off in the ring will not walk into traps for that straight left like the mma guys do because McGregor doesn't have any other weapons to make him. McGregor doesn't even have a jab.

People say McGregor will confuse Mayweather with his unorthodox style which may be through but McGregor will also be matched up against a style of fighter he has never seen the likes of before.

thewheel2.0

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

RE: Aldo v McGregor in boxing
It's not a better spectacle. However, if it goes 12 rounds it could be a more exciting bout as both men will go for it and not be as defensive.

walshb wrote: »

Not?

So a one sided beatdown is?

Unless you are trying to tell me that Conor/Floyd is the more fair and competitive fight? Are you saying this?

Aldo/Conor for me likely produces a better spectacle as regards action and competitiveness and thrill..

Before I get going... comparing a hypothetical fight between Aldo and McGregor in boxing to August 26th is dumb, but you misinterpreted what I said so here we go...

There is a huge difference between spectacle, and excitement/quality of a fight.

A huge spectacle is what we have now - the best Boxer vs one of the best MMA strikers. Some hypothetical fight between Aldo v McGregor in boxing could not top that. (I think we should move on from the hypothetical...)

An exciting fight is often a close fight or a competitive fight with a lot on the line. We probably wont get that on August 26th but I wouldn't rule it out.

walshb

Spectacle? Visually exciting or stunning performance...

We won't get that Aug 26 due to the gulf in class of the combatants..

I'd bet Aldo and McGregor would serve up a far better spectacle in all areas..

Nothing at all dumb in thinking this or wondering this or comparing this to what might happen Aug 26..

GerryDerpy

walshb wrote: »

Spectacle? Visually exciting or stunning performance...

We won't get that Aug 26 due to the gulf in class of the combatants..

I'd bet Aldo and McGregor would serve up a far better spectacle in all areas..

Nothing at all dumb in thinking this or wondering this or comparing this to what might happen Aug 26..

Might last 14 seconds next time.

Naos

Gintonious wrote: »

Agreed, in which case in a boxing fight between a boxer and an MMA fighter, the boxer is the elite, better skilled athlete.

In an MMA fight between a boxer and an MMA fighter, the MMA fighter is the elite, better skilled athlete.

To be fair, not just an MMA fight. You can add Kickboxing, Judo BJJ, Wrestling, Taekwondo etc to that list.

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Does he have enough BJJ? 100% yes. Can't do it if he's been KOed with the first punch of the fight though.

You do realise he could literally crawl over to Floyd and take him down right? Or hit him with an imanari roll? He just need to snag a foot, it's not that difficult and Floyd would have a very hard time punching down considering he wouldn't be used to it.

thewheel2.0

walshb wrote: »

So a one sided beatdown is?

Also don't get your hopes up for a one sided beat down on August 26th. Floyd is the master of doing just enough to win rounds. That is his current form. The thoughts of fecking up his record is enough for him to continue with that form.

In my opinion he will do what it takes to get to 50-0, he will not make it a mission to get a finish. Despite the #FakeNews he keeps releasing on YouTube.

The above combined with McGregor being tough as nails. I don't see him being finished - unless his cardio goes off a cliff like we have seen before.

Context: Huge McGregor fanboy, only see the fight going Floyd decision or 1% chance of McGregor KO. I have the KO backed for fun, going to back the decision as my serious bet.

walshb wrote: »

Spectacle? Visually exciting or stunning performance...

We won't get that Aug 26 due to the gulf in class of the combatants..

Fair enough, most people are of the opinion that it will be quite the crazy spectacle to witness even if there is an element of freakshow/circus about it. I thought you "liked" MMA? Embrace the chaos of it all