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Official Conor McGregor thread (part 4) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match
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Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »The way you analyse things, I really thing you should give BJJ a lash. I think you'd enjoy it and it would be good for the head too.
If you're looking for advice on where near you would be good, pm me your general area and I'll throw you some suggestions.
If it's a case of not being able to afford gear or membership, send me a pm about that too, I'm sure I've a gi laying around that would fit you and I'm sure we could find someone willing to do a deal price wise.
Honestly, please to pm me and let me see if I can help you out.
I'm back for one, because I saw this and couldn't ignore it.
This post ^^ is everything that is good about this fantastic sub-forum.
At times in the last few years, we haven't agreed on a whole lot to put it mildly and, at times, I was needlessly personal in my responses to you - so to read this honestly moved me and says a lot about your character and reveals flaws in mine. I can and will try learn from you. Thank you.
I don't really have money to try jiujitsu right now being honest. Give me a few weeks and I'll see if I can change my circumstances and then we'll have a chat about it.
I can't resist while I'm here and it's fresh in my mind, so my top 10 takeaways from Conor-Floyd
:
1. If you don't read anything else, at least read this: Compubox DO NOT count "tippy tappy" punches. The rabbit punches, tappy punches, the comical jab that tipped Floyd's nose etc are not counted in their totals. When Compubox say Conor landed 111 punches they are 111 punches that landed with "force" which is their first criteria to count it as landed.
Did many of them land with enough force to hurt Floyd? Nope. But not many pro boxers have ever hurt Floyd with a punch either. Even the crispest punches ever landed on Floyd didn't even wobble him for more than a second. Maidana creamed him with a right hand and he came out the next round like it never happened.
He has an unreal chin and Conor landed some good shots. Both things are true.
2. I think the blueprint on how to trouble Conor is now obvious. Max Holloway (to an extent), Nate and Floyd found all their success behind a tight high guard walking him down & smothering him. A key reason Conor was able to turn the tide in the 4th round against Nate was through landing some front-snap kicks, teeps and leg-kicks.
Without the ability to use those kicks, Conor had no answers for Floyd.
One of the things I greatly admire about Conor's career is his willingness to constantly evolve. He came into the UFC as a counter-puncher (Buchinger, then Brimage), he adapted into a forward-pressure fighter (Brandao, Holloway) and, finally, evolved into a forward-pressure counter-puncher (Diaz, Alvarez).
I feel like he needs to keep adapting now to stay ahead of the curve. Kevin Lee, Tony Ferguson, Khabib, Tyron Woodley, Max Holloway, Edson Barboza, Nate Diaz - none of those guys are blind and their coaches will be drilling them to shell up behind a high, tight guard and walk Conor down.
My hope would be a stylistic change back to incorporating more kicks because his kicking arsenal is under-used lately and could be vital to stopping opponents walking him down - more 'spinning sh1t' and high kicks would be beneficial.
3. I re-watched the fight a couple of times and Conor's biggest problems (other than being outclassed) began when his footwork went to pieces.
Floyd 100% coasted in the early rounds. I'm not saying that to diminish Conor's performance because, the truth is, Floyd does the same thing in all of his fights. If Conor was truly as bad as Max Kellerman predicted, he wouldn't have won a round despite the coasting and if he was truly as good as Owen Roddy predicted, he should have flattened Floyd while he was dancing around.
So the truth is somewhere in between.
Still, Conor landed some good shots. The uppercut and his counter left hook will be the ones that make any highlight reels but there was some crisp body shots that landed cleanly, he had some lovely inside and outside slips, his hand-speed was respectable and some of his early footwork was great.
Conor's power and technique have a direct correlation to his gas tank (more than most fighters). As soon as he tires, his footwork and punches become sloppy. I don't agree that his punching fundamentals were awful (there was some good stuff early), but the later rounds his footwork went AWOL, as did his punching technique and power.
4. The commentary from Sky Sports was a disgrace and sad to see.
Round 8 is a great example, I've seen a lot of fair minded people give Conor round 8 and after a couple of re-watches it's a super close round that I personally give to Floyd. The punch stats from Round 8 were the closest of any of the later rounds (15 v 12 in power punches) and Conor's accuracy on his punches was his highest of the entire fight in round 8 - 43% landed.
For a bit of fun go watch Round 8 with the commentary on mute and score the round. It was close!
Sky meanwhile were giving condescending backhanded compliments about Conor's toughness instead of calling the action. The shots he did land in the 8th were completely no-sold by Adam Smith.
There was a definite stench of jealousy emanating from Carl Froch and Tony Bellew. You could feel the bitterness in every word they spoke - that a "clueless boxer" was in the ring making more than twice the money they made in their entire careers.
I understand why that would be galling to them to be in boxing for 50 years between them and this guy waltzes in to make $100 million but they're being paid to call a fight, not to inject bitterness into the equation.
5. This is just an opinion before I'm shot by any of the SBG guys on here...
While we have been focused on Conor v Floyd, both Peter Queally and Sinead Kavanagh lost decisions this week. I managed to catch the final 2 rounds of Sinead's fight, the decision could have gone either way but I didn't see any adjustments made from round 2 (which I felt she lost) to the 3rd round.
There is some tenuous evidence that John being away for these big fight camps with Conor is coming at the expense of his other fighters results. It's hardly scientific data because sample is small, but I checked all SBG results that coincided with camps Conor did in America and the results are not very good relative to when Conor is not in camp.
I'm also not sure about some of the comments John makes, I feel they place unnecessary pressure on the fighters:
He predicted Gunni would be welterweight world champion by the summer of 2016. We're nearly in 2018 and he's as far away from the belt as ever. He's tipping James Gallagher to be a Bellator champion. Possible, sure, but it's early days.
He said Peter Queally was "UFC-ready" and Charlie Ward was the "strongest welterweight I've ever met". He said he failed to see how anything Floyd can do will even trouble Conor.
Those statements are crazy in hindsight and many felt were crazy at the time. Floyd comfortably out-skilled Conor in the end, Galore Bofando threw Charlie Ward on his head, Queally is 2-2 against average opposition since being told he was UFC-ready...
Coaches in all sports try instill confidence in their athletes and make them feel unbeatable but there's got to be some tipping point where making big claims and proclamations to the media turns into heaping pressure on them. I don't remember Sir Alex Ferguson tipping Rooney at 17 to be England's top-goalscorer one day.
If you're filling a guys head that he's the strongest welterweight you've ever come across, maybe he starts to believe it and the next thing you know he's being dumped on his head?
I don't know... the whole thing just feels off to me. They're losing fights recently and a 'Win or Learn' tweet arrives but if you're not around to teach them it's not so easy to learn. I didn't see any evolution in Sinead's game from her February defeat, she relied on her boxing throughout.
6. MMA analysts I respect are impressed with Conor's jab - and that's grading his jab on a curve because it went from non-existent in MMA to 'passable' against Floyd. In those early rounds, when he was fluid, he landed some solid jabs with weight on them and set up some attacks. In the later rounds, he threw a lot more lazy jabs.
Very few MMA fighters have even a basic competent jab, so that would appear to be one extra weapon Conor can continue to improve and bring back to the Octagon.
7. I'd rather poke myself in the eye with a chicken bone than have 3 months of build-up for a Paulie Malignaggi boxing match.
8. Conor threw, by my count, 3 elbows at Floyd's head. As in "barely disguised" elbows. One landed pretty clean. Floyd threw 3 and 2 landed. If boxing fans want to pile it on us over here, they can now also say Floyd was more accurate with an MMA technique
https://twitter.com/MikeBohnMMA/status/901893879837761536
9. There's one stat I think most of us can agree on.
0/26 - The amount of truly boring 'put you asleep' fights Conor has been a part of. We can love him, hate him or not care about him but the one thing we can rely on is he won't ever stink the place out like Woodley.
10. I'd like to have a pint with Leonard Ellerbe some day :pac:
Anyway, thank you once again SubMarcos. When I come back refreshed I'm going to make some adjustments to my own posts instead of being so combative. I don't know if others feel this way but as much as I'm a big fan of Conor, I'm equally a fan of this sub-forum. Great bunch of guys and girls in here.0 -
wonderfullife wrote: »I'm back for one, because I saw this and couldn't ignore it.
This post ^^ is everything that is good about this fantastic sub-forum.
At times in the last few years, we haven't agreed on a whole lot to put it mildly and, at times, I was needlessly personal in my responses to you - so to read this honestly moved me and says a lot about your character and reveals flaws in mine. I can and will try learn from you. Thank you.
I don't really have money to try jiujitsu right now being honest. Give me a few weeks and I'll see if I can change my circumstances and then we'll have a chat about it.
I can't resist while I'm here and it's fresh in my mind, so my top 10 takeaways from Conor-Floyd :
1. If you don't read anything else, at least read this: Compubox DO NOT count "tippy tappy" punches. The rabbit punches, tappy punches, the comical jab that tipped Floyd's nose etc are not counted in their totals. When Compubox say Conor landed 111 punches they are 111 punches that landed with "force" which is their first criteria to count it as landed.
Did many of them land with enough force to hurt Floyd? Nope. But not many pro boxers have ever hurt Floyd with a punch either. Even the crispest punches ever landed on Floyd didn't even wobble him for more than a second. Maidana creamed him with a right hand and he came out the next round like it never happened.
He has an unreal chin and Conor landed some good shots. Both things are true.
2. I think the blueprint on how to trouble Conor is now obvious. Max Holloway (to an extent), Nate and Floyd found all their success behind a tight high guard walking him down & smothering him. A key reason Conor was able to turn the tide in the 4th round against Nate was through landing some front-snap kicks, teeps and leg-kicks.
Without the ability to use those kicks, Conor had no answers for Floyd.
One of the things I greatly admire about Conor's career is his willingness to constantly evolve. He came into the UFC as a counter-puncher (Buchinger, then Brimage), he adapted into a forward-pressure fighter (Brandao, Holloway) and, finally, evolved into a forward-pressure counter-puncher (Diaz, Alvarez).
I feel like he needs to keep adapting now to stay ahead of the curve. Kevin Lee, Tony Ferguson, Khabib, Tyron Woodley, Max Holloway, Edson Barboza, Nate Diaz - none of those guys are blind and their coaches will be drilling them to shell up behind a high, tight guard and walk Conor down.
My hope would be a stylistic change back to incorporating more kicks because his kicking arsenal is under-used lately and could be vital to stopping opponents walking him down - more 'spinning sh1t' and high kicks would be beneficial.
3. I re-watched the fight a couple of times and Conor's biggest problems (other than being outclassed) began when his footwork went to pieces.
Floyd 100% coasted in the early rounds. I'm not saying that to diminish Conor's performance because, the truth is, Floyd does the same thing in all of his fights. If Conor was truly as bad as Max Kellerman predicted, he wouldn't have won a round despite the coasting and if he was truly as good as Owen Roddy predicted, he should have flattened Floyd while he was dancing around.
So the truth is somewhere in between.
Still, Conor landed some good shots. The uppercut and his counter left hook will be the ones that make any highlight reels but there was some crisp body shots that landed cleanly, he had some lovely inside and outside slips, his hand-speed was respectable and some of his early footwork was great.
Conor's power and technique have a direct correlation to his gas tank (more than most fighters). As soon as he tires, his footwork and punches become sloppy. I don't agree that his punching fundamentals were awful (there was some good stuff early), but the later rounds his footwork went AWOL, as did his punching technique and power.
4. The commentary from Sky Sports was a disgrace and sad to see.
Round 8 is a great example, I've seen a lot of fair minded people give Conor round 8 and after a couple of re-watches it's a super close round that I personally give to Floyd. The punch stats from Round 8 were the closest of any of the later rounds (15 v 12 in power punches) and Conor's accuracy on his punches was his highest of the entire fight in round 8 - 43% landed.
For a bit of fun go watch Round 8 with the commentary on mute and score the round. It was close!
Sky meanwhile were giving condescending backhanded compliments about Conor's toughness instead of calling the action. The shots he did land in the 8th were completely no-sold by Adam Smith.
There was a definite stench of jealousy emanating from Carl Froch and Tony Bellew. You could feel the bitterness in every word they spoke - that a "clueless boxer" was in the ring making more than twice the money they made in their entire careers.
I understand why that would be galling to them to be in boxing for 50 years between them and this guy waltzes in to make $100 million but they're being paid to call a fight, not to inject bitterness into the equation.
5. This is just an opinion before I'm shot by any of the SBG guys on here...
While we have been focused on Conor v Floyd, both Peter Queally and Sinead Kavanagh lost decisions this week. I managed to catch the final 2 rounds of Sinead's fight, the decision could have gone either way but I didn't see any adjustments made from round 2 (which I felt she lost) to the 3rd round.
There is some tenuous evidence that John being away for these big fight camps with Conor is coming at the expense of his other fighters results. It's hardly scientific data because sample is small, but I checked all SBG results that coincided with camps Conor did in America and the results are not very good relative to when Conor is not in camp.
I'm also not sure about some of the comments John makes, I feel they place unnecessary pressure on the fighters:
He predicted Gunni would be welterweight world champion by the summer of 2016. We're nearly in 2018 and he's as far away from the belt as ever. He's tipping James Gallagher to be a Bellator champion. Possible, sure, but it's early days.
He said Peter Queally was "UFC-ready" and Charlie Ward was the "strongest welterweight I've ever met". He said he failed to see how anything Floyd can do will even trouble Conor.
Those statements are crazy in hindsight and many felt were crazy at the time. Floyd comfortably out-skilled Conor in the end, Galore Bofando threw Charlie Ward on his head, Queally is 2-2 against average opposition since being told he was UFC-ready...
Coaches in all sports try instill confidence in their athletes and make them feel unbeatable but there's got to be some tipping point where making big claims and proclamations to the media turns into heaping pressure on them. I don't remember Sir Alex Ferguson tipping Rooney at 17 to be England's top-goalscorer one day.
If you're filling a guys head that he's the strongest welterweight you've ever come across, maybe he starts to believe it and the next thing you know he's being dumped on his head?
I don't know... the whole thing just feels off to me. They're losing fights recently and a 'Win or Learn' tweet arrives but if you're not around to teach them it's not so easy to learn. I didn't see any evolution in Sinead's game from her February defeat, she relied on her boxing throughout.
6. MMA analysts I respect are impressed with Conor's jab - and that's grading his jab on a curve because it went from non-existent in MMA to 'passable' against Floyd. In those early rounds, when he was fluid, he landed some solid jabs with weight on them and set up some attacks. In the later rounds, he threw a lot more lazy jabs.
Very few MMA fighters have even a basic competent jab, so that would appear to be one extra weapon Conor can continue to improve and bring back to the Octagon.
7. I'd rather poke myself in the eye with a chicken bone than have 3 months of build-up for a Paulie Malignaggi boxing match.
8. Conor threw, by my count, 3 elbows at Floyd's head. As in "barely disguised" elbows. One landed pretty clean. Floyd threw 3 and 2 landed. If boxing fans want to pile it on us over here, they can now also say Floyd was more accurate with an MMA technique
https://twitter.com/MikeBohnMMA/status/901893879837761536
9. There's one stat I think most of us can agree on.
0/26 - The amount of truly boring 'put you asleep' fights Conor has been a part of. We can love him, hate him or not care about him but the one thing we can rely on is he won't ever stink the place out like Woodley.
10. I'd like to have a pint with Leonard Ellerbe some day :pac:
Anyway, thank you once again SubMarcos. When I come back refreshed I'm going to make some adjustments to my own posts instead of being so combative. I don't know if others feel this way but as much as I'm a big fan of Conor, I'm equally a fan of this sub-forum. Great bunch of guys and girls in here.
Ill.be honest and say i didnt watch the fight at all and was pleasantly surpised he made it to round ten regardless of how he got there. It takes balls to attempt it.
I had no interest whatsoever in it. I seen the clip of the finish is all.
Agree totally on kavanagh and the win or learn bullsh1t. Its an easy out imo and a soundbite people accept far too easily.
Apart from mcgregor noone has "learned"0 -
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Outlaw Pete wrote: »Oops, that old sweet science wasn't as elusive as you thought it was, eh :P
Yeah he wasnt . I didnt know he'd fight like that . I thought Conor carried more power and would make him fight defensive and use his shoulder roll like we are used to seeing. Fair play to him for landing a few though . Look forward to seeing him back in the cage soon 0 -
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