Official Conor McGregor thread (part 4) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

Ush1

TherapyBoy wrote: »

The simplest answer to this question is Floyd. Although he hadn't really "worked Conor over" at that stage I'm sure he was doing something that was causing Conor to expend more energy than in his sparring sessions. Add in the lights, stage, event etc

Floyd walked him down. Anyone who's ever fought or sparred knows the feeling of constantly backing up and trying to hit someone is very tiring. That's when being able to fight on the inside comes in.

Conor said only one sparring partner did this with him so he wasn't prepared.

wonderfullife

spix wrote: »

He does have an endurance issue, I suspect the majority of it is genetics. It could probably be improved with the proper training, whether or not he's currently doing the best possible right now is unknown.

I think people are being unfair about the cardio. He threw 92 punches from the 21st minute to the 25th minute, and 430 in 10 rounds. That's solid endurance for his first try at pro boxing where it's your shoulders and arms getting tired that kills.

There's lots of reasons why he faded badly from the 25th to 28th minutes.

Eating clean right hands from Floyd Mayweather was one! Not knowing when to clinch is another - he circled at times when most pro boxers would have clinched and when he truly needed to rest in the clinch, Floyd framed him off with his forearm/elbow. Conor was on his toes for much of the opening rounds using expansive footwork while Floyd was flat-footed taking tight steps.

What Conor likes to do is take the center of the cage and wait for opponents to explode towards him and he'll ping them with precise counters. He took center-ring for the first 3 rounds but Floyd was clever enough not to throw - and when he did throw Conor countered him with nice shots.

Notice how few jabs Floyd threw in the entire fight. He knew not to come in behind the jab because he had probably seen/felt enough to know Conor is dangerous with his counters, so he just walked him down behind a shell and threw his lead right hand with no set-up.

Honestly what we saw in there was Yoda levels of experience and boxing-craft from Floyd. Conor's athleticism, footwork, reactions and hand-speed were honestly excellent (some of his slips were amazing) but Floyd knew all the Jedi tricks. Master v Apprentice stuff.

Gamebred

Your original prediction of rd 9 was correct Wonder fair play he done well took legit rounds of the goat, what was the reaction on here?

walshb

Gamebred wrote: »

Your original prediction of rd 9 was correct Wonder fair play he done well took legit rounds of the goat, what was the reaction on here?

It was rd 10 he was stopped.....

wonder gets fook all credit for being a rd out!:)

Lukker-

Ush1 wrote: »

I've always echoed this, I think he put on too much muscle.

Extra muscle on the leg is the best thing you can do to support the knee post ACL, the rest of his body looks naturally proportioned to me

Ush1

Lukker- wrote: »

Extra muscle on the leg is the best thing you can do to support the knee post ACL, the rest of his body looks naturally proportioned to me

It's not to do with proportions. I think he gained muscle during that time which has caused his cardio to suffer. He looked worse at the subsequent weigh ins after the ACL.

Frank Bullitt

He has deffo put on muscle, when he weighed in for the boxing bough, he looked seriously gaunt, and he was only a pound or so lighter than he was last November,

No chance he makes 145 now, if he tried he could damage himself.

As for the cardio, I genuinely think its his energy management over lack of cardio, he was going at it hell for leather without pacing himself much, thats bound to blow out the fittest of the fittest.

LollipopJimmy

Gintonious wrote: »

He has deffo put on muscle, when he weighed in for the boxing bough, he looked seriously gaunt, and he was only a pound or so lighter than he was last November,

No chance he makes 145 now, if he tried he could damage himself.

As for the cardio, I genuinely think its his energy management over lack of cardio, he was going at it hell for leather without pacing himself much, thats bound to blow out the fittest of the fittest.

He could get to 145 but he would need to work on dropping muscle over a longer period. It wouldn't be done by drying out over a couple of days.

Also I don't think Conor has cut to 145 since the rule change regarding IV re-hydration was introduced

Subcomandante Marcos

If you look at the way he talks and posts about training he's using cycling for cardio. That's fine if you're doing it right but he's going for short 45-60 minute cycles at low intensity, that's useful for recovery spin but nothing else, it's not going to build endurance.
Everything else he does is HIIT and again, good training for it's intended purposes but it's not building endurance.

If he's going to keep training with Dalby and he's going to keep using cycling for cardio then auld Julian needs to start bringing him on fasted 60km rides and group spin of 200km plus with the odd day of 45 minute interval rides.

H8GHOTI

The reason he lost this fight comes down to one thing - his rowing technique!

Eyes Down Field

It's mad that a young guy who looks is tremendous physical shape, has such pathetic stamina. After 2 rounds Conor was breathing heavily, and by round 5 he was visibley exhausted. Could there be some underlying medical issue that he has? I'm not fitness expert but it's hard to comprehend his problem is purely down to training methods

Lukker-

H8GHOTI wrote: »

The reason he lost this fight comes down to one thing - his rowing technique!

Don't forget the cycling shoes

The Nal

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

It's mad that a young guy who looks is tremendous physical shape, has such pathetic stamina. After 2 rounds Conor was breathing heavily, and by round 5 he was visibley exhausted. Could there be some underlying medical issue that he has? I'm not fitness expert but it's hard to comprehend his problem is purely down to training methods

He did ok in Diaz 2, 25 minutes, 5 x 5 min rounds.

He doesn't have a boxing brain. He blew his load early. Too intense, to much wasted energy, too uptight. Foreman did the same against Ali and Foreman was made of granite. Any boxer can punch himself out in a few rounds if they're stupid enough to let it happen.

He threw 323 power punches and landed 80 - 23%
Mayweather threw 235 and landed 132 - 56%.

Its just about efficiency.

gilmour

I wouldn't be surprised if Conor gets in touch with a sports psychologist over this issue. I don't think its anything got to do with his cardio fitness, or energy management but his thought process that leads to him having poor energy management, not to mention how his cardio will burn because of the mental challenges that comes up for him.

The mental challenge he has is the sporting equivalent or in fact the definition of Anxiety. He gets anxious when things does not go his way. Now you could say "But he won the first 3 rounds, how is that not going his way?" but ultimately in Conors incredible self belief mindset he felt he would have more of an impact than he had in the opening rounds. A simple thought after landing on Floyd with the uppercut (for example) like "that was the shot, that was the moment, and it did not trouble him" will undoubtedly raise anxiety to anyone prone to it in a situation like that.
Then add on top of this an opponent literally walking you down, forcing you back. A pretty horrible and claustrophobic feeling for any person to have if they have the self belief that he undoubtedly has. That initial thought (why is he not hurt?) will naturally change his behaviour patterns (throw more!) which leads back to the classic vicious circle of feeding more negative thoughts. That circle can only be broken with a positive turn of events like getting a shot of that makes his opponent wobble. But all the while this circle is burning his cardio faster than anything he could have prepared for in camp.

If you look at the number of punches round by round that was posted above, it backs up the case. He was composed in the opening 3, composed and consistent with his output but threw more from rounds 4-8, when Mayweather really started to amp up his pace of walking him down. His composure started to fade badly which in essence left him more vulnerable to get hit. This is the energy management part that he could not maintain, because mentally he is essentially in that moment panicking.

The Diaz fights followed a similar pattern. The sparring followed a similar pattern according to Conor himself. And now Floyd. Every single time it happens he has more experience of it happening in the past to fuel and feed his anxiety for when it comes back around.

I really can't see him ever overcoming it without outside help if i'm being honest.

walshb

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

It's mad that a young guy who looks is tremendous physical shape, has such pathetic stamina. After 2 rounds Conor was breathing heavily, and by round 5 he was visibley exhausted. Could there be some underlying medical issue that he has? I'm not fitness expert but it's hard to comprehend his problem is purely down to training methods

You are way over-exaggerating here.

Remember, there are career boxers who suffer with their cardio, Look at Andy Lee and George Groves. Both "super fit," but for boxing their fitness "can" let them down depending on the fight. I have seen Lee blowing heavy after a few rds in the ring. Groves too, and there are other examples through history.

Conor is/was a part time boxing trainer for this fight. Nothing more. Brief few months dedication to boxing training, and we don't even know exactly how effective his training was.

marcus001

wonderfullife wrote: »

1. You say he was running on fumes by Round 6 but his output actually increased after round 6. He threw 108 punches combined in rounds 7 & 8 compared to 97 punches in rounds 5 & 6.

It's round 9 IMO when he really started to pay the price for earlier efforts.

2. Simple really. He was probably hitting his sparring partners more!! It's far more tiring to be constantly missing punches and Conor only landed 23% of his punches against Floyd. In sparring he was probably hitting Artem, Tiernan Bradley, Dashon Johnson far more than that, so he would have been able to see the rounds out better.

That raises the question on choice of sparring partners. Funnily enough, even though he's a 135lb southpaw, they could have done worse than accept Lomachenko's offer to spar because Conor would have got used to missing with 80% of his shots and trying to find comfort in missing so much.

3. Definitely not this. He rose to the occasion as always.

I think the most important analysis here is what Conor himself said - he felt it was too easy after 3 rounds and got over-excited at how easy it was. Floyd was barely throwing a punch in return and Conor coasted to a 3-0 lead. The statistics back that up too:

He was pacing himself well in rounds 1, 2, 3. He threw:

34 - Round 1
42 - Round 2
39 - Round 3

He got over-excited at winning those rounds so easily, then did this:

65 - Round 4
51 - Round 5

It was a bad pacing issue as opposed to bad base cardio. It's very difficult to go fro a steady 38 punches a round to suddenly throwing 60+ rounds and not have it affect you.

I'd also question the advice he was getting from the corner. I was impressed when John told him not to throw when Floyd was shelling up but I think that advice came too late. By round 3 the corner team were laughing at how easy it was and I honestly think they lost perspective by not recognizing that Floyd was coasting.

I would have preferred Roddy to get hold of Conor and advise him to take a round off. If you're up 3-0 and it's clear you're not going to KO him, then you should be focusing on going the distance and trying to sneak a few later rounds on the scorecards. Hindsight is 20-20 but it would have been great advice for Conor to take it handy in rounds 4, 5, 6 after he built the lead.

In that respect it was a learning experience for sure.

The other side of all that - by round 7 Floyd had barely thrown over 100 punches while Conor was closing in on 300, so Conor was always going to *look* extremely gassed in comparison to Floyd, especially carrying over a stone more weight. If you put someone who just ran for the bus beside someone who was chilling at the bus stop, they'll look more gassed :cool:

Roddy didn't tell him to take a round off until just before round 10. By that stage exhaustion had set in and he was beyond recovery. He needed to take rests every 3-4 rounds.

When Floyd started coming forward hands up Conor was doing the right thing, he was hitting him and then moving to the side. He did this of his own accord probably on instinct but it was the right technique. John Kavanagh told him to stand him up, which is absolutely the wrong thing to do when you have no sting left in your punches. They should have had at least one person in that corner who knew a little bit about boxing.

Boom_Bap

walshb wrote: »

You are way over-exaggerating here.

Remember, there are career boxers who suffer with their cardio, Look at Andy Lee and George Groves. Bot "super fit," but for boxing their fitness "can" let them down depending on the fight. I have seen Lee blowing heavy after a few rds in the ring. Groves too, and there are other examples through history.

Conor is/was a part time boxing trainer for this fight. Nothing more. Brief few months dedication to boxing training, and we don't even know exactly how effective his training was.

There is actually a good explanation for this, I can't remember the medical terms but it boils down to people with different type of muscle composition.
There are generally 2 types, 1 is someone with endurance due to how the muscles are, the other is explosive. So marathon runners would be the former, shot putters the latter.
McGregor is the latter also, he is explosive but doesn't have the endurance. The muscle fibers can be trained to an extend to handle more endurance, but will have an upper limit, or taper off.

....I think.

beans

Boom_Bap wrote: »

There is actually a good explanation for this, I can't remember the medical terms but it boils down to people with different type of muscle composition.


....I think.

Fast-twitch / slow-twitch?

Boom_Bap

beans wrote: »

Fast-twitch / slow-twitch?

That sounds familiar

darced

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darced

This post has been deleted.

Pussyhands

Conors nearing the end of his fighting career. Don't see him adopting any serious changes to training etc now.

CatFromHue

Looks like Helwani didn't get paid for his interview with McGregor at the "An Experience with...." event he did in Jan.

They said they went bankrupt.

I think a lot of people flagged in here that that company was a bit dodgy at the time.

Boom_Bap

Pussyhands wrote: »

Conors nearing the end of his fighting career. Don't see him adopting any serious changes to training etc now.

His training has been constantly changing!

walshb

Boom_Bap wrote: »

There is actually a good explanation for this, I can't remember the medical terms but it boils down to people with different type of muscle composition.
There are generally 2 types, 1 is someone with endurance due to how the muscles are, the other is explosive. So marathon runners would be the former, shot putters the latter.
McGregor is the latter also, he is explosive but doesn't have the endurance. The muscle fibers can be trained to an extend to handle more endurance, but will have an upper limit, or taper off.

....I think.

Yes, but he's somewhere in between. He's far from a sprinter/shot putter/javelin thrower kind off guy...

800 metre runner would be my Conor description for cardio/endurance.

Floyd is a 3-5 k runner. Nothing overly explosive, but steady consistent stamina.

Aaron Pryor would be the miler. 100 mph non stop!

LollipopJimmy

darced wrote: »

Kavanagh gave him the best piece of advice in the fight, he told him to only throw when Floyd threw. Conor went straight out and started unloading on Floyds arms at the start of the round.

Heard that and then he runs out and starts punching the Guard.

Lukker-

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Heard that and then he runs out and starts punching the Guard.

Fatigue mixed with head trauma and panic, Conor probably heard the words he said and nodded in agreement, but it was most likely in one ear out the other.

Mellor

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

If he's going to keep training with Dalby and he's going to keep using cycling for cardio then auld Julian needs to start bringing him on fasted 60km rides and group spin of 200km plus with the odd day of 45 minute interval rides.

Agree with most of that. Not sure if the fasted bit is needed though. A fight shouldn't go long enough for him to bonk.
I still want a look inside that FAST program though. Mostly curious.



Maybe he just needs a few extra weetabix on fight day.

Outlaw Pete

spix wrote: »

Uppercut was powerful too.

Was a nice shot alright but unfortunately it was a couple of inches off catching Floyd flush though.

Here it is from two angles.....


https://twitter.com/TheSportsJunky1/status/901660603458228224

walshb

The uppercuts problem, and Conor's problem in general was its delivery speed. Something Conor doesn't have in boxing striking. Had he gotten more delivery and torque, who knows? Clean shot, but "slow" moving. It kind of caressed Floyd when it could have smacked him.