Official Conor McGregor thread (part 4) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

marcus001

darced wrote: »

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I didn't hear that bit, the bit I heard was I think between round 8 and 9. Conor did it right in round 8 but during the break Kavanagh told him to meet Floyd whenever Floyd was walking forward like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Kavanagh but it was bad advice. He should have kept getting out of Floyd's way and tagging him from the side like he did the previous round.

spix

.ak wrote: »

All valid points but I don't think you're giving enough credit to Floyd. A lot of what Conor did and did not do was down to his opponent. At times I felt he wasn't following up with combos because he felt he had to be careful not to get suckered into a trap, which Floyd was trying to set all night.

Look back to the Alvarez fight if you want an idea if McGregor can follow up or capitalize on a strike... In the first round he was very calm and measured, but in the second he absolutely punished Eddie whenever anything landed, he was relentless there.

The difference? The opponent.

I don't think him not following up on anything was because it was floyd, I noticed him do it alot against Diaz too...he'd land a shot that clearly stunned Diaz and would just nod his head but let Diaz retreat and recover. He misses so many opportunities. He has alot of hesitation in him when h's doing anything except a counter or straight left. I suppose its just not his style but would be much more dangerous if he could do that sometimes. All my concerns of what he'd not be good at in this fight came true.. was hoping he'd have improved them better in this camp but either his team are a bunch of yes men like paulie says and they don't want to question Conor on anything or they thought it was more important to focus on other things.

Eyes Down Field

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Conor said if the fight did MayPac numbers ( 4.6m?) That he'd get 100m. This did 6.5 so how much will make, ??

It's probably easy worth another 25/30 million for McGregor. If the percentages stay consistent with him making 100 mil between garunteed purse and the estimation of narrowly exceeding the May Pac numbers

wonderfullife

Gamebred wrote: »

end of round 2 at 202 v Nate he was winning so easy yet just changed in an instant its very weird.

In a nutshell what happened at the end of round 2? It looked like Conor started to gas but what triggered it?

Well, Nate did something extremely intelligent. He stopped throwing punches because he was getting countered at will, he put his hands up in a high shell and walked Conor down - forcing him to circle along the fence - which is precisely what Floyd did from the end of round 3 onwards, so it certainly looks to me like it's his opponents forward pressure that is causing him issues.

I can't remember who made the point but one thing to bear in mind is Conor has freakishly long arms for his height. Part of the reason he excels at distance is he has great timing to catch opponents on the full extension of his punches. He caught Mendes, Siver, Brandao at near-perfect timing through his shot.

When guys like Floyd/Nate are walking him down & digging their heads into his chest, he doesn't have the mechanics to deliver short concussive punches because there's no forward momentum from his opponent, whereas when someone explodes at him like Aldo and Eddie, their momentum combined with Conor's accuracy is what hurts them.

That's why I think he needs countless rounds of practice with guys pressuring him in that manner. I don't mean to sound harsh but we've now had 3 fights (Nate 1&2, Floyd) where all the guy had to do is shell up and walk Conor down and the problem hasn't been addressed.

How much evidence do they need before the "Learn" part kicks in? In truth the book should have been called "Fight and Learn" because learning should never be predicated on losing - especially in combat sports where you can make dozens of mistakes and still win with one shot.

I guarantee it's going to be trouble if they don't find solutions to this problem. Khabib and Ferguson's coaches are going to spend the whole camp drilling them to shell up and walk Conor down - and the last thing Conor needs is to be on his back with either of those 2 on top of him. Good luck getting Khabib off you.

Subcomandante Marcos

wonderfullife wrote: »

In a nutshell what happened at the end of round 2? It looked like Conor started to gas but what triggered it?

Well, Nate did something extremely intelligent. He stopped throwing punches because he was getting countered at will, he put his hands up in a high shell and walked Conor down - forcing him to circle along the fence - which is precisely what Floyd did from the end of round 3 onwards, so it certainly looks to me like it's his opponents forward pressure that is causing him issues.

I can't remember who made the point but one thing to bear in mind is Conor has freakishly long arms for his height. Part of the reason he excels at distance is he has great timing to catch opponents on the full extension of his punches. He caught Mendes, Siver, Brandao at near-perfect timing through his shot.

When guys like Floyd/Nate are walking him down & digging their heads into his chest, he doesn't have the mechanics to deliver short concussive punches because there's no forward momentum from his opponent, whereas when someone explodes at him like Aldo and Eddie, their momentum combined with Conor's accuracy is what hurts them.

That's why I think he needs countless rounds of practice with guys pressuring him in that manner. I don't mean to sound harsh but we've now had 3 fights (Nate 1&2, Floyd) where all the guy had to do is shell up and walk Conor down and the problem hasn't been addressed.

How much evidence do they need before the "Learn" part kicks in? In truth the book should have been called "Fight and Learn" because learning should never be predicated on losing - especially in combat sports where you can make dozens of mistakes and still win with one shot.

I guarantee it's going to be trouble if they don't find solutions to this problem. Khabib and Ferguson's coaches are going to spend the whole camp drilling them to shell up and walk Conor down - and the last thing Conor needs is to be on his back with either of those 2 on top of him. Good luck getting Khabib off you.

I agree with literally everything you've posted here.

Gamebred

I suppose its a case of his game got him this far so they dont seem concerned, again our opinions are worth nothing to them considering hes had one ufc loss and a loss against the best ever arguably in another sport so we might sound harsh but your right wonder Lee Woodley or Tony will be taking note of all this and will shell up for 7 or 8 mins till they know he will tire.

thewheel2.0

Everyone is complimenting Conor on his post fight self-analysis, it was good but he pointed out exactly what mentally and physically breaks him.

If walking forward with a high guard is the blueprint then that has own flaws too. Shelling up in MMA is less useful cause the guard is smaller and there are other weapons the opponent can use.

Sofiztikated

Someone mentioned it earlier, but I just saw that "Conor was homeless, and near deaths door until Dee took him in" craic.

Anyone know a decent optician? Think I rolled my eyes a bit too hard.

LollipopJimmy

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Someone mentioned it earlier, but I just saw that "Conor was homeless, and near deaths door until Dee took him in" craic.

Anyone know a decent optician? Think I rolled my eyes a bit too hard.

It's everywhere. Who writes this ****e

Jamiekelly

Sofiztikated wrote: »

Someone mentioned it earlier, but I just saw that "Conor was homeless, and near deaths door until Dee took him in" craic.

Anyone know a decent optician? Think I rolled my eyes a bit too hard.

Seen that too, what's even worse is the gullible people believing it. Apparently 4 out of every 5 people get the majority of their news from Facebook. Just goes to show how poisonous that site is when exaggerated clickbait is taken as gospel truth.

Django99

Gamebred wrote: »

I suppose its a case of his game got him this far so they dont seem concerned, again our opinions are worth nothing to them considering hes had one ufc loss and a loss against the best ever arguably in another sport so we might sound harsh but your right wonder Lee Woodley or Tony will be taking note of all this and will shell up for 7 or 8 mins till they know he will tire.

Thinking of his next possible opponents, and what problems they cause, some seem far more dangerous than others.

Diaz, I think would go similar to 202, but could still go either way. It was a close fight that McGregor edged. Leg kicks were huge and as has been pointed out, Diaz had more success when walking him down. Very little time spent on the ground where Diaz would have the advantage, but Mcgregors takedown defence is excellent so it might never go there against Diaz. I would put it as a 50-50 fight.

Woodley, well we've seen in his last few fights he is more than willing to sacrifice excitement for a solid game plan. He has very good fight IQ, I doubt he would ever throw the first punch against McGregor for fear of getting countered. It would be quite interesting to see what he would try to do, maybe try to take it to the ground and if he's not able just avoid the left. I'd probably have it maybe 60-40 Woodley but if McGregor could find an opening he'd make it interesting.

Ferguson, I think this would be a war. Ferguson has a good chin to keep himself conscious if he does get caught, creative take downs, an interesting kicking game. However he is so wild, I think McGregor would catch him early. Mcgregors boxing will have improved too so if it had to go to a decision, I'd fancy McGregor. I'd have it 60-40 McGregor.

Lee, I think he's still a bit green and his stand up isn't anything spectacular. If he could get it to the ground he'd have an advantage, he's very active. McGregor would prefer someone to sit in his guard like Mendes I think. He can take some ground and pound and he can escape bad positions quite well. I don't really see where Lee would win though, I'd go 80-20 McGregor. Could change that when we see Ferguson v Lee.

Khabib, I've always felt he would be Mcgregors worst fight and I still think so. He's just so good at getting it to the ground, or at least a clinch. He doesn't expose himself too much standing either, and he can take a shot. On the ground he's a nightmare for McGregor, trying to pass guard constantly, throwing elbows and punches from the top. Obviously he has to prove he can make weight and stay healthy, but he's the one fighter I give a huge advantage over McGregor. 75-25 Khabib.

Gaetjhe, would be crazy. He would try to walk down McGregor all day and it would just be a matter of whether McGregor could find the counter. No way that would go the distance. I actually think kicks would Mcgregors big weapon here. 60-40 McGregor.

That's leaving out a few other possibilities like GSP, Holloway and others, but those are the guys that I think he'll face on his next one or two fights depending what happens. No easy fights, lots of interesting stylistic match ups, and hopefully some exciting times ahead if he intends on defending belts and being as active as he was up until 205.

darced

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ardinn

How do people think conors hands would have improved now after that. How dangerous will he have become with 6-7 odd months just handwork.

His next camp will be mma orientated obviously but will the skills acquired in the last yr be there forever more in a real capacity, will he simply box the shíte out of everyone or will it really make that much difference!

wonderfullife

Gamebred wrote: »

...our opinions are worth nothing to them considering hes had one ufc loss and a loss against the best ever arguably in another sport so we might sound harsh...

For me personally, I'm definitely not criticizing out of 'hate', quite the opposite - I suppose at this stage I count him as one of my heroes and I don't want him getting battered. He has taken nearly double the damage against Nate and Floyd than his other 22 opponents combined and most of that damage was shipped while they were walking him down.

They need to find solutions because I hate seeing Conor take so many head shots. To be honest, even though I see where Conor was coming from about the 'early' stoppage, I'm disappointed there wasn't a towel thrown in. Conor barely threw a punch in reply for nearly a minute and ate 20 punches - and this was coming on the back of a brutal round 9 demolition job by Floyd.

CTE is a real thing and the downside of having a granite chin is you can get pucked around the head A LOT, whereas at least someone with a glass chin gets an early sleep. People can slate Floyd's punching power all they want but I guarantee those stinging shots mount up.

Maybe I'm being unfair but I've rewatched the 9th and 10th round multiple times and when you view them together it's clear the fight should have been stopped - arguably even earlier. It saddens me that the most sensible person in that ring caring for Conor's future was Robert Byrd and not Roddy/Artem/JK. I know Byrd was just doing his job but the corner team are allowed to do their jobs too - and the towel is there for a reason.

thewheel2.0 wrote: »

Shelling up in MMA is less useful cause the guard is smaller and there are other weapons the opponent can use.

This is true but when was the last time Conor dropped someone who was just walking at him? If you go through his UFC fights:

Brimage, Aldo, Alvarez were all exploding towards him.
Brandao, Poirier, Siver, Mendes were already hurt and backing up.

Floyd Mayweather is Floyd Mayweather, I do get that, but it was the ease with which both he and Nate walked him down (after the 8 minute mark in both fights) that was alarming. They didn't even need to jab their way into range, they just get their hands up and 'Terminator'd' him - head down, got him circling, threw lead hooks at his head with no set-up.

The most obvious solution to the problem of being walked down in MMA is also a risky one - level change at the end of round 2 and take his opponent down. It's risky because he doesn't really want to be in the guard of a Khabib, Nate, Ferguson for too long but on the other hand if he can even land one takedown and do some work, it might deter them from walking him down in round 3.

He'll be grand if he gets Dillon into camp and religiously drills being in his guard. I know Dillon gets a lot of stick but I think most people rate his defensive jiujitsu highly.

ardinn wrote: »

How do people think conors hands would have improved now after that. How dangerous will he have become with 6-7 odd months just handwork.

Despite all I said above, Conor is going to be a nightmare for anyone in rounds 1 & 2, even worse than before.

Some of the skills he showed in the Floyd fight amazed me, some really high level stuff. The fact that he was able to use a jab where he normally uses a front-kick (or leg kick for Diaz), that's going to be so handy going forwards to get his opponents to back up and to time his combinations.

His footwork was honestly superb early on, that step he did to get on Floyd's blindside to land the combination was a thing of beauty and if Lomachenko himself did it the boxing guys would be raving about it.

Even though shelling up clearly flusters Conor, it won't be very effective against him in round 1 or 2 because his footwork and movement is so good. He's too dynamic to allow anyone to just walk him down when he's fresh and his front kicks and body punches have enough snap to stop anyone in their tracks.

The thing that interests me about the Diaz trilogy is I have a suspicion they will try come up with a gameplan that doesn't involve leg kicks. The one thing about Conor is he's not shy about telling people how he feels ... and he's not a fan of leg-kicks lol. So I suspect we will see his newly developed jab a lot more, both to the body and face, to partly replace the leg-kick setups.

On a psychology level, I think he'll be eager to throw more capoeira/muay-thai kicking attacks too. There'll be a lot of new fans watching Conor's next fight and it would be only human nature to show them he can do more than box so I wouldn't be surprised to see a tornado kick/question-mark kick thrown in. He didn't miss Poirier's head by all that far with the question-mark kick.

Anyway, tons of new skills and refined skills coming back to the Octagon. Very valuable learning experience for all concerned - I HOPE! I don't mean to come across like a moaning-mini about Conor/JK/Roddy, I just want Conor to retire healthy and happy at 32 or 33 - and not a punch-drunk former fighter who once had a great chin.

Say whatever you want about those comical instructions from Robert Byrd but he had Conor's best interests and his future at heart and I'm grateful he stopped the fight

Ush1

Walking someone down is very different in MMA. As has been mentioned you don't have as much surface area to block punches. Plodding forward, hands up makes it much easier to take you down with a quick shoot.

The other thing is kicks. If someone can kick well, especially low kicks, it doesn't matter how good a chin you have your legs will give out and continuously marching forward makes your legs very vulnerable.

The Nal

Holly Holm vs Katie Taylor anyone?

Subcomandante Marcos

Ush1 wrote: »

Walking someone down is very different in MMA. As has been mentioned you don't have as much surface area to block punches. Plodding forward, hands up makes it much easier to take you down with a quick shoot.

There aren't too many elite MMA fighters who are going to be worried about Conor taking them down or doing anything to them on the ground.
In fact there's a lot who'd wish he'd try.

FollowMyWay

Post from Conor's facebook http://www.facebook.com/thenotoriousmma/photos/a.495799027155068.1073741828.494191297315841/1762238433844448/?type=3&theater

Just coming back around after a whirlwind couple of days.
Thank you to all the fans for the support of the fight and the event! Without your support we as fighters are nothing so I thank you all!
Thank you to my team of coaches and training partners!
I had an amazing team and It truly was an amazing and enjoyable camp, and honestly I feel with just a little change in certain areas of the prep, we could have built the engine for 12 full rounds under stress, and got the better result on the night.
Getting to 12 rounds alone in practice was always the challenge in this camp. We started slowly getting to the 12 and decreasing the stress in the rounds the closer it got to 12. I think for the time we had, 10 weeks in camp, it had to be done this way. If I began with a loaded 12 rounds under much stress I would have only hit a brick wall and lost progress as a result and potentially not made the fight. A little more time and we could have made the 12 cleanly, while under more stress, and made it thru the later rounds in the actual fight. I feel every decision we made at each given time was the correct decision, and I am proud of everyone of my team for what we done in the short time that we done it.
30 minutes was the longest I have fought in a ring or cage or anywhere. Surpassing my previous time of 25 minutes. I am happy for the experience and happy to all take these great lessons with me and implement them into my camp going forward.
Another day another lesson!
Congrats to Floyd on a well fought match. Very experienced and methodical in his work. I wish him well in retirement. He is a heck of a boxer. His experience, his patience and his endurance won him this fight hands down. I always told him he was not a fighter but a boxer. But sharing the ring with him he is certainly a solid fighter. Strong in the clinch. Great understanding of frames and head position. He has some very strong tools he could bring into an MMA game for sure.
Here is a toast of whiskey to everyone involved in this event and everyone who enjoyed it!
Thank you to you all! Onto the next one!

Subcomandante Marcos

The Nal wrote: »

Holly Holm vs Katie Taylor anyone?

Katie would mess her up.

The Nal

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Katie would mess her up.

How so?

Subcomandante Marcos

The Nal wrote: »

How so?

I just don't rate her boxing record is all. Female pro boxing is by and large a bit of a joke, even more so 5-10 years ago when Holm was winning belts.

Katie is operating a few levels above Holm skill wise in terms of boxing.

everlast75

The Nal wrote: »

How so?

Ruffle her hair, smudge her make up...

Useful.Idiot

For someone who is meant to have a champion pro boxing record, Holly's hands are really not good.

walshb

Katie has yet to show how she reacts when hit clean and hard on the chin. Holm can punch, is big, rough and tough and seasoned.

The Nal

everlast75 wrote: »

Ruffle her hair, smudge her make up...

Reply marginally late to her wedding invite, turn up with a slightly more expensive handbag and shoes, be too friendly with her boyfriend.

I think it would be a good fight. Holly is a fighting machine.

Perry12

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Was a nice shot alright but unfortunately it was a couple of inches off catching Floyd flush though.

Here it is from two angles.....


https://twitter.com/TheSportsJunky1/status/901660603458228224

Wow, seeing that again I noticed how open Floyd was to the punch that ended Aldo's night. His jaw was there for the smack. Imagine!

The Nal

No power in that uppercut unfortunately.

spix

Perry12 wrote: »

Wow, seeing that again I noticed how open Floyd was to the punch that ended Aldo's night. His jaw was there for the smack. Imagine!

Mcgregor countered mayweather with that same combo I think 5 times over the first 2 rounds, it was obviously the punch he planned to ko him with. Once in round 2 was insanely close to landing on the point of mayweathers chin instead of the back like in this video. I wish mcgregor used a different counter in some of those instead of always attempting the uppercut, a la ivan buchinger ko. I think he gets a punch in his head and always goes for it, being stubborn with the uppercut got him in trouble in diaz 1 fight.

spix

The Nal wrote: »

No power in that uppercut unfortunately.

There is some power in it but it didn't land cleanly, it landed at the back of mayweathers chin/throat rather than cleanly on the chin. Also lost a bit of momentum grazing his chest first, doesn't look powerful because its in slo mo, all punches look weak slowed down. Also notice mayweather punching mcgregors arm at the same time. It was close to being the money shot and he attempted it a few other times too... got very close in round 2 to landing perfectly.

Lukker-

The obvious move for Conor to deal with pressure fighters would be to switch back to fighting on the counter. Whether his ego would allow him to that is another thing.