Official Conor McGregor thread (part 4) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

Mellor

cloudatlas wrote: »

billybonkers wrote: »

4 weeks of it there

Exactly and it's a 12-week high performance training program.

Is imagine it repeats on a 3-4 week basis rather than being 12 unique weeks. But there's other doing reviews and such online. Might be enough there to piece together a decent snap shot.

Id imagine it's a fairly legit program tbh. That kind of HR zone based training it pretty standard. I'd also imagine that it's Dalbys baby and McGregor is basically getting paid to be the face of it. I'd give it a go myself if it was reasonably priced.

wonderfullife

Gintonious wrote: »

If its sanctioned then it is a fight, simple as.

This is correct.

A win for Conor is a) KO'ing him b) stopping him c) decision win.

Anything else is a defeat.

Conor isn't doing this just for money or moral victories, he's doing it because he wants to prove he's the best combat fighter in the world.

But if you want to discuss scenario's where Conor can emerge with a ton of credit in an actual defeat then there's not many.

1. A close decision or split decision loss. 115-113's in there.
2. Having at least one 10-8 round where he drops Floyd or forces a standing-8-count.
3. Recovering from being dropped himself in an earlier round to take a couple of later rounds on the scorecards.

It depends where you set the bar. If you believe the fight is a joke/circus where Conor has 0 chance, then he gets credit for far less. But I'm treating this almost the same way I would treat Conor v Ferguson, so he'd have to show me a lot to get credit for a defeat.

walshb

Gintonious wrote: »

To be honest you want Floyd to fight a fight that he doesn't fight.

Being overly cautious is how he has the record he has, and the scalps that came with that.

He probably could well stand in front of him and dice him up, but if he chooses not to or sees reason not to, I fail to see that as a bad thing.

Yes, but being cautious and careful against pro boxers with real pedigree I can understand.

Simple: Floyd is the career pro great boxer

Conor is the complete novice pro.

Apologies for setting Floyd's bar so high here....

Realistically Floyd deserves 0 credit here no matter how he wins because there is nothing at all to credit an ATG in beating a "no-hoper-novice-pro."

I never said x/y or z was a bad thing. I simply said that he loses (or better to describe it as Conor "wins") should the bout be as I described in some of the scenarios.

billybonkers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-JXIomk5Ww

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

This is correct.

A win for Conor is a) KO'ing him b) stopping him c) decision win.

Anything else is a defeat.

Conor isn't doing this just for money or moral victories, he's doing it because he wants to prove he's the best combat fighter in the world.

But if you want to discuss scenario's where Conor can emerge with a ton of credit in an actual defeat then there's not many.

1. A close decision or split decision loss. 115-113's in there.
2. Having at least one 10-8 round where he drops Floyd or forces a standing-8-count.
3. Recovering from being dropped himself in an earlier round to take a couple of later rounds on the scorecards.

It depends where you set the bar. If you believe the fight is a joke/circus where Conor has 0 chance, then he gets credit for far less. But I'm treating this almost the same way I would treat Conor v Ferguson, so he'd have to show me a lot to get credit for a defeat.

Exactly.

I'd be the first to give him credit if he looks like a pro, moves around like a pro and generally looks the part. But it would not be any sort of moral victory, no chance.

Frank Bullitt

walshb wrote: »

Yes, but being cautious and careful against pro boxers with real pedigree I can understand.

Simple: Floyd is the career pro great boxer

Conor is the complete novice pro.

Apologies for setting Floyd's bar so high here....

Realistically Floyd deserves 0 credit here no matter how he wins because there is nothing at all to credit an ATG in beating a "no-hoper-novice-pro."

I never said x/y or z was a bad thing. I simply said that he loses (or better to describe it as Conor "wins") should the bout be as I described in some of the scenarios.

While Conor os a complete novice in the boxing sense, he has knocked people out before, and won titles. Thats why I think Mayweather should box as he does and play out a game plan that he sees fit.

walshb

Gintonious wrote: »

While Conor os a complete novice in the boxing sense, he has knocked people out before, and won titles. Thats why I think Mayweather should box as he does and play out a game plan that he sees fit.

We have been over this many times. What titles did he win? Are you talking about an amateur Dublin Novice Titles in 2006?

And, he is a novice as regards being a pro?

Let's not pretend that he has any pedigree here whatsoever. He does not.

Looks like you are as bad as Floyd trying to kind of sell this as a legitimate fight...

The only way Conor can legally-officially win is by actually winning.....

I am talking about winning in the moral/credit sense, hence my inverted commas for "win" and my mentioning/implying this in my original post.

Floyd cannot win in any sense because the very nature of this event prevents him from doing so.

I won't say he is 50-0 after his hand is raised. I don't really care what the officials say as regards Floyd's record.

Frank Bullitt

walshb wrote: »

We have been over this many times. What titles did he win? Are you talking about an amateur Dublin Novice Titles in 2006?

And, he is a novice as regards being a pro?

Let's not pretend that he has any pedigree here whatsoever. He does not.

Looks like you are as bad as Floyd trying to kind of sell this as a legitimate fight...

The only way Conor can legally-officially win is by actually winning.....

I am talking about winning in the moral/credit sense, hence my inverted commas for "win" and my mentioning/implying this in my original post.

Floyd cannot win in any sense because the very nature of this event prevents him from doing so.

I won't say he is 50-0 after his hand is raised. I don't really care what the officials say as regards Floyd's record.

I was referring to his UFC titles knock outs there, not in boxing. Novices count for **** all, sure I even trained for them in Dublin!

I don't think its not a legitimate fight, in that its 2 pro combat sport fighters squaring off, I do agree though that its a mismatch. But once the bell goes then they are both trying to hurt each other, can't get much more legitimate than that.

And moral victories don't go on records, and they never will. So I wouldn't be arsed about that.

everlast75

I don't see Conor winning this at all.. but the .0001% chance I would give him is if FM doesn't fight the way he normally does, ie defensively.

If Conor can draw him out and make him slightly reckless then I think an opportunity may present itself.

In my opinion FM won't give a **** about what type of victory he gets, his record and the cash is all that matters and that's why he will fight light normal, make the fight boring and take no risks

walshb

Gintonious wrote: »

I was referring to his UFC titles knock outs there, not in boxing. Novices count for **** all, sure I even trained for them in Dublin!

.

I kind of thought you were, but I wasn't sure...

walshb

everlast75 wrote: »

In my opinion FM won't give a **** about what type of victory he gets, his record and the cash is all that matters and that's why he will fight light normal, make the fight boring and take no risks

Maybe he won't give a fook, but for fans his type of victory may well be important. For me I would diss him if he cannot do this in utter style/domination.

I have dissed him for some of his victories against actual pro boxers. So I am consistent.

Are folks really telling me that should this fight be as "close-offensively dismal" as the Manny and Maidana fights that Floyd doesn't deserve to get slated?

Sweet Science

Gintonious wrote: »

What does he stand to make from this? $200-$250 Mill? He wouldn't be living up to the "Money" Mayweather persona well if he turned this down.

Honestly , there is no way on Earth someone says no to that .

wonderfullife

Gintonious wrote: »

Exactly.

I'd be the first to give him credit if he looks like a pro, moves around like a pro and generally looks the part. But it would not be any sort of moral victory, no chance.

From everything I've heard and seen, I'm fully expecting Conor to look like a pro Mixed Martial Artist in there.

It's a boxing ring, boxing rules, boxing ref but he's fully allowed have whatever stance he wants, keep whatever distance and range he wants etc.

I'm looking forward to seeing what adjustments he has made in his weight distribution. In MMA he's heavy on his lead leg and his center of gravity is a bit lower to allow him to sprawl or level change. He doesn't have to worry about kicks to his lead leg or takedowns so they need to find the right balance in his weight distribution.

In theory he should be able to sit down on his punches a bit more but that, obviously, leaves him more vulnerable to counters and it'll also be more exhausting.

I really think it'll be a fascinating and entertaining fight but then again I've rewatched Mayweather-Pacquiao a few times and I really liked that fight, too.

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

From everything I've heard and seen, I'm fully expecting Conor to look like a pro Mixed Martial Artist in there.

It's a boxing ring, boxing rules, boxing ref but he's fully allowed have whatever stance he wants, keep whatever distance and range he wants etc.

I'm looking forward to seeing what adjustments he has made in his weight distribution. In MMA he's heavy on his lead leg and his center of gravity is a bit lower to allow him to sprawl or level change. He doesn't have to worry about kicks to his lead leg or takedowns so they need to find the right balance in his weight distribution.

In theory he should be able to sit down on his punches a bit more but that, obviously, leaves him more vulnerable to counters and it'll also be more exhausting.

I really think it'll be a fascinating and entertaining fight but then again I've rewatched Mayweather-Pacquiao a few times and I really liked that fight, too.

I would like him to change a few things for it though.

Hands up, he doesn't do that enough in MMA because he can get away with it. Against Floyd? Good night.

He also drags his jab back so much and flares his elbows when he punches, against THE counterpuncher in boxing, that is asking for trouble. He will have to get lighter on his feet as well to not be a sitting duck to Mayweather, so his stance and balance must change.

I saw Schuab going on about his wide stance and how Mayweather will not be used to that. That may be the case, but it does put McGregor at a disadvantage of having to cover more distance, which gives Floyd more time to move and counter, plus moving large distances can leave you flat-footed for a counter also.

He can do whatever he sees fit of course, but going in against a seasoned pro like Floyd, and looking at pretty much all the top boxers in the world right now, they all have the same basics and fundamentals down, and that is for a reason.

Sweet Science

Floyd is standing right in front of Conor. Flat footed . That is a certainty .

wonderfullife

Gintonious wrote: »

He can do whatever he sees fit of course, but going in against a seasoned pro like Floyd, and looking at pretty much all the top boxers in the world right now, they all have the same basics and fundamentals down, and that is for a reason.

Yeah but Floyd is 49-0 against all the top boxers with the same basics and fundamentals.

So that's not a positive argument for Conor to try fight like a traditional southpaw boxer.

He's as well sticking to his karate stance and fighting at a distance he's accustomed to. It'd be at least something Floyd has never seen before.

StringerBell

wonderfullife wrote: »

This is correct.

A win for Conor is a) KO'ing him b) stopping him c) decision win.

Anything else is a defeat.

Conor isn't doing this just for money or moral victories, he's doing it because he wants to prove he's the best combat fighter in the world.

But if you want to discuss scenario's where Conor can emerge with a ton of credit in an actual defeat then there's not many.

1. A close decision or split decision loss. 115-113's in there.
2. Having at least one 10-8 round where he drops Floyd or forces a standing-8-count.
3. Recovering from being dropped himself in an earlier round to take a couple of later rounds on the scorecards.

It depends where you set the bar. If you believe the fight is a joke/circus where Conor has 0 chance, then he gets credit for far less. But I'm treating this almost the same way I would treat Conor v Ferguson, so he'd have to show me a lot to get credit for a defeat.

He is doing it for the money, plain and simple.

If he wanted to simply prove he was the best combat fighter in the world right now he would not be taking on a 40 year old.

There is no shame in calling this out for what it is, this is a business venture for both men. The fight is secondary and the title of best combat fighter in the world is not up for grabs here.

There is nothing wrong with that, if both men can convince people to give them multiples millions to do this then why not.

Sweet Science

wonderfullife wrote: »

Yeah but Floyd is 49-0 against all the top boxers with the same basics and fundamentals.

So that's not a positive argument for Conor to try fight like a traditional southpaw boxer.

He's as well sticking to his karate stance and fighting at a distance he's accustomed to. It'd be at least something Floyd has never seen before.

A karate stance is madness when boxing . However as you said if he tries fight like a boxer he loses so he may aswel give it a go.

At least it would be more entertaining than going orthodox.

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

Yeah but Floyd is 49-0 against all the top boxers with the same basics and fundamentals.

So that's not a positive argument for Conor to try fight like a traditional southpaw boxer.

He's as well sticking to his karate stance and fighting at a distance he's accustomed to. It'd be at least something Floyd has never seen before.

Thats true.

The point I was kind of trying to get at was that the basics always work in boxing, straight punches and moving your head. I do see what you mean about Conor not being a traditional southpaw, sure he isn't even a traditional boxer, but some basics cross over into MMA.

The spectrum in MMA for skillsets is a bit looser because you have to worry and expect more to come back at you (takedowns, kicks, knees etc)

A boxer doesn't have that concern, they know roughly what to expect back and they know it comes in the form of a punch. So they are super tuned to that stance and movement because that is what will come back, and also because that is the most efficient way to throw a punch.

A wide karate stance takes away the leverage you have with your hips as they feet are wider apart, it also means the power has longer to travel and that does help with kicks due to your legs being bigger and longer than your legs.

What I am trying to say is that a wide karate stance will be caught out very quickly in boxing. It makes you work harder to throw and land, give your opponent ample opportunity to see it coming and against a counter puncher, leaves you open all day to eating digs. Makes it harder to move as well for boxing.

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

Floyd is standing right in front of Conor. Flat footed . That is a certainty .

That is what he said against Guerrero and he didn't really do that......

Toe to toe he said, and yet he went moving and moving...

He's a bullsh1tter, but really, he more than should be able to toe toe to toe James Toney style here and beat Conor up.

wonderfullife

StringerBell wrote: »

He is doing it for the money, plain and simple.

If he wanted to simply prove he was the best combat fighter in the world right now he would not be taking on a 40 year old.

There is no shame in calling this out for what it is, this is a business venture for both men. The fight is secondary and the title of best combat fighter in the world is not up for grabs here.

There is nothing wrong with that, if both men can convince people to give them multiples millions to do this then why not.

What do you think he fought Dennis Siver for?

It's the most intellectually lazy argument to say "he's doing it for the money"... Every single professional fighter fights for the money, otherwise they'd be amateurs.

In the eyes of you and me - the best combat fighters in the world somewhere near Conor's weight class are: Cody Garbrandt, Dominick Cruz, TJ Dillashaw, Max Holloway, Jose Aldo, Tony Ferguson, Khabib, Justin Gaethje,Tyron Woodley and Demain Maia. They'd all strangle and destroy boxers/kickboxers etc.

In the eyes of the wider general public, who know very little about combat sports.. the best combat fighter near his weight class is Floyd Mayweather.

Telling me "he's doing it for the money" is meaningless. He fights for money.

He's doing this because, quite rightly, it's an opportunity to go down in the public consciousness as the 'baddest dude on the planet' - The guy who can beat anyone in any combat sport.

The fact that that's not even remotely true - and that Conor would get mauled by Garry Tonon, Saenchai, Jordan Burrough's under their own rulesets etc - won't matter. The general public don't know (and don't care) about BJJ, Muay Thai, Freestyle wrestling.

It's as simple as this - if Conor beats Floyd in a boxing ring he will soon reach a Cristiano Ronaldo level of fame and his name will forever be associated with excellence in combat sport.

He can make $100 million in the next 3 years easily just sticking to MMA, he made $34 million last year. Every fight he takes is for money.

He's doing this because he thinks he will beat Floyd and go down in infamy.

Sweet Science

walshb wrote: »

That is what he said against Guerrero and he didn't really do that......

Toe to toe he said, and yet he went moving and moving...

He's a bullsh1tter, but really, he more than should be able to toe toe to toe James Toney style here and beat Conor up.

Wasnt he getting stick from people saying his legs were gone before that ? Mosley Ortiz Hatton Canelo he was basically flat footed standing in front of them . Defence 1st granted but he didnt 'run' either.

StringerBell

What does Denis Siver have to do with boxing?

I am going no further with your post as you seem to be misunderstand my entire point. He is fighting Mayweather because this is the fight that gets him the most money possible and the biggest upside exposure wise, it is also a limited time only fight which meant it had to happen quickly or not at all.

He is not fighting Floyd Mayweather, at 40 years of age, to prove he is the greatest combat fighter on the planet.

It is naive to not acknowledge this is for the money, his MMA fights are a separate issue and it is foolish to the point of willful ignorance to suggest I was conflating the two.

Edit: Can he really break 100mil from MMA in the next 3 years? I am not so sure, he is pretty much at peak exposure in that world. Not saying its impossible, but I certainly wouldn't bank on it, where do you think the ceiling is for that world? Also, as the man himself has said, a half fight for this kind of money was a no brainer to take, he doesn't seem to have any problem admitting its for the money again to quote the man himself, he is going to quadruple his net worth in one event. It doesn't sound like his net is anything close to $34m if that is true?

His self belief is a wonderful asset but you would be remiss to ignore his business acumen when it comes to maximising his earnings in the short(ish) window he has

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

What do you think he fought Dennis Siver for?

It's the most intellectually lazy argument to say "he's doing it for the money"... Every single professional fighter fights for the money, otherwise they'd be amateurs.

In the eyes of you and me - the best combat fighters in the world somewhere near Conor's weight class are: Cody Garbrandt, Dominick Cruz, TJ Dillashaw, Max Holloway, Jose Aldo, Tony Ferguson, Khabib, Justin Gaethje,Tyron Woodley and Demain Maia. They'd all strangle and destroy boxers/kickboxers etc.

In the eyes of the wider general public, who know very little about combat sports.. the best combat fighter near his weight class is Floyd Mayweather.

Telling me "he's doing it for the money" is meaningless. He fights for money.

He's doing this because, quite rightly, it's an opportunity to go down in the public consciousness as the 'baddest dude on the planet' - The guy who can beat anyone in any combat sport.

The fact that that's not even remotely true - and that Conor would get mauled by Garry Tonon, Saenchai, Jordan Burrough's under their own rulesets etc - won't matter. The general public don't know (and don't care) about BJJ, Muay Thai, Freestyle wrestling.

It's as simple as this - if Conor beats Floyd in a boxing ring he will soon reach a Cristiano Ronaldo level of fame and his name will forever be associated with excellence in combat sport.

He can make $100 million in the next 3 years easily just sticking to MMA, he made $34 million last year. Every fight he takes is for money.

He's doing this because he thinks he will beat Floyd and go down in infamy.

Couldn't disagree more.

This whole "best combat fighter" in the world crap does my head in. He isn't out to prove that, if he was then he would stay put in MMA.

He is going to boxing because that is where the money is that he wants. He would never get a payday like this in UFC, ever. Sure he even has to give them some of his purse just to be able to fight this one!

Boxing and MMA are totally different, we all agree on that, but hearing "if this was a real fight" is utter rubbish that is thrown in to try and balance the scales. There are rules in both, there are fighters in both.

Conor going to boxing to prove he is the best combat athlete? So he will go and compete in K1 next? Or a wrestling championship? Or Jiu Jitsu comp? Or Judo? Or Tae-kwon-do?

No, he won't. He wants his money pal, thats number 1 on the list.

jcd5971

I see a Mayweather win as the most likely outcome here by some distance heart says conor but brain is going nope not this time heart.

I also think there is 0% chance of Floyd going out to destroy him, there appears to be a fair bit of mutual respect between both camps, I'd point to Conor steering away from any domestic violence stuff as an example of this, also the glowing away Leonard elorbe as been talking about Conor, there is just no animosity here.

Contrast Conor's vitriol towards showtime weasel, it was obvious his distain for the man, nothing he said to mayeeather came close to that.

Also as a friend of mine watching it mentioned to me, how easy would it have been to infuriate Floyd by just pointing at his daughter on stage and saying how are you not ashamed to put her in a boxing ring after you beat the living **** out of her mother in front of her.
Obviously it would have been crass and an incredible low blow, but would certainly illicit emotions from Floyd.

Yet nothing of the sort occurred, this is as many have said a business venture, and with that in mind I predict a comfortable Floyd points decision, showcasing his skill while giving McGregor a way to go out with his head held high and a moral victory with kind words said by both after.

Would not be surprised if McGregor entertainment is getting tips as we speak from Floyd promotions.

I'd go as far as to argue the only "easy-mark's" and "bitches" are the rabid fans at either extreme of the spectrum who will drive the interest in this fight to casual fans getting caught up in it's wake.

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

Wasnt he getting stick from people saying his legs were gone before that ? Mosley Ortiz Hatton Canelo he was basically flat footed standing in front of them . Defence 1st granted but he didnt 'run' either.

Well, whatever about running, he certainly didn't stand toe to toe....

Guerrero and his mad owl lad were slating Floyd for it..

walshb

wonderfullife wrote: »

He's doing this because he thinks he will beat Floyd and go down in infamy.

Crazy that you still are swallowing this "belief" from Conor....

He hopes/prays. He does not know or believe, and the garbage stage scripted pressers should have been the nail in the coffin.

Gamebred

wonderfullife

StringerBell wrote: »

What does Denis Siver have to do with boxing?

He is not fighting Floyd Mayweather, at 40 years of age, to prove he is the greatest combat fighter on the planet.

It is naive to not acknowledge this is for the money, his MMA fights are a separate issue and it is foolish to the point of willful ignorance to suggest I was conflating the two.

....he is going to quadruple his net worth in one event. It doesn't sound like his net is anything close to $34m if that is true?

If he was offered $100 million to fight CM Punk in the Octagon and $100 million to fight Floyd in boxing which do you think he picks?

Why did he go straight after Rafael Dos Anjos instead of defending against Frankie Edgar? RDA, at the time, was a wrecking machine and universally acknowledged to be a better fighter than Frankie.

The bigger fight, financially, was 100% defending the belt against Frankie because Frankie has one of the biggest fanbases in MMA and it would have sold more on PPV and more at the gate than taking on some random Brazilian only hardcore MMA fans knew about, who was looking unstoppable.

Why did he go after Eddie Alvarez instead of a Nate trilogy? Every man and their dog could tell you the bigger fight financially was Nate 3, yet Conor went after the 2nd belt against a wrestler he's supposed to be crap against.

What you're willfully ignoring is that regardless of money, Conor has time-after-time chased the biggest athletic/sporting challenge available to him. Facing off against Floyd Mayweather in a boxing ring, the chance to pull off a Rocky-style upset and shock the world, that's the biggest challenge available to him and he took it.

The fact you keep harping back to money shows you've no idea what motivates Conor. People keep saying "it's the money" but time and again he has chosen fights that would be less financially beneficial in order to chase *bigger achievements*.

As for your edit, Forbes have Conor's net worth at €29 million and his 2016 earnings at $34 million before tax. If the Conor v Floyd PPV sells over 5 million, then Conor will make the €120 million.

Gintonious wrote: »

Couldn't disagree more.

This whole "best combat fighter" in the world crap does my head in. He isn't out to prove that, if he was then he would stay put in MMA.

Conor going to boxing to prove he is the best combat athlete? So he will go and compete in K1 next? Or a wrestling championship? Or Jiu Jitsu comp? Or Judo? Or Tae-kwon-do?

No, he won't. He wants his money pal, thats number 1 on the list.

Your post would be right if I said any of what you think I said. I didn't.

What I said was in the eyes of the general public, Floyd is the best combat fighter near Conor's weight class. Staying put in his weight class wouldn't prove anything to the general public who have barely heard of MMA let alone follow it.

They don't know who Garry Tonon, Gordon Ryan, Saenchai, Jordan Burroughs, Aaron Pico are either. They've never heard of BJJ or Muay-Thai or freestyle wrestling. They don't know and don't care that Conor would be destroyed if he faced any of them in their discipline (he would be mauled!).

The general public barely even know boxing. Ask a 55-year-old who isn't interested in sports to name 2 elite combat fighters and they'll say Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson. They won't say GGG or Errol Spence Jr and they certainly won't say Khabib and Demian Maia.

Beating Floyd Mayweather in a boxing ring with all the hooplah surrounding it... in 20 years from now ask the same people and there's a fair chance they'll say "Tyson and that Irish kid McGregor".

This fight is not about that for combat fans but combat fans make up a microscopic fraction of the general public. In their eyes, this is MMA v Boxing. This is McGregor v Mayweather. This is to see who is the best fighter on the planet.

wonderfullife

walshb wrote: »

Crazy that you still are swallowing this "belief" from Conor....

He hopes/prays. He does not know or believe, and the garbage stage scripted pressers should have been the nail in the coffin.

Ah ok.

So you *know* what Conor believes in his own head and I don't. Gotcha.