Official Conor McGregor thread (part 4) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

darced

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Frank Bullitt

darced wrote: »

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For this fight or for MMA?

darced

This post has been deleted.

spix

rustynutz wrote: »

I think Mc Gregors biggest talent is his self belief, apart from his left hand he is not an exceptionally talented fighter imo, but he does also seem to have a very good work ethic which he channels into the right areas, he knows where he is weak and focuses on that in training. The odds are obviously stacked against him in this upcoming fight, but I think it would be foolish to completely write him off.

You know nothing about fighting if that's what you think....it's not his left hand that's impressive its the skills he uses to land it. He's not a brawler, does not throw haymakers at close range and hope for the best if that's what you consider a talented fighter. His ground game is nothing great but nowhere near as bad as some people seem to think.

His boxing against nate diaz in the 2nd fight was masterful, for first 2 rounds he countered diaz every single time with crazy reflexes, kept a perfect range, basically made diaz look like a fool until he started tiring a bit. When you compare that to diaz vs cerrone or michael johnson you can really see how conors standup is leagues above most ufc fighters in terms of ability to slip punches, distance recognition, countering. The main problem I see with his standup is he seems to overthink things at times and lets himself be backed up too easily, probably from losing confidence as he starts to tire a bit.

Useful.Idiot

Not to mention his ring cutting and kicks that he uses to corral opponents into the range of his left hand.

Gamebred

''not an exceptionally talented fighter''


Im surprised someone took that bait, seriously pmsl.

Django99

I find the whole hard work and belief thing a bit strange. So is that suggesting that everyone who isn't successful doesn't work hard enough or believe in themselves?

finglashoop

Django99 wrote: »

I find the whole hard work and belief thing a bit strange. So is that suggesting that everyone who isn't successful doesn't work hard enough or believe in themselves?

I think the hard work belief and dedication of top athletes is a cut above the average joes understanding.

hewhoscares

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2017/07/25/mike-tyson-says-conor-mcgregor-will-get-killed-floyd-mayweather/

Casual boxing fans in hell.


As for the broadcaster in the UK and Ireland - three horse race between BT, Sky and ITV - they'll all want the fight due to the numbers and money to be made and will all have made their bids a bit back. But Mayweather promo will've most likely delayed the decision due to the exposure they can get from all 3 up until now by not picking. 

If they'd partnered with one already then they wouldn't have the youtube stuff from BT or the SSN's coverage or the ITV support for the London broadcast - but now with it weeks away they'll pick one soon and I'd expect sky due to their performance previously with May/Pac and their proven track record.

Django99

finglashoop wrote: »

I think the hard work belief and dedication of top athletes is a cut above the average joes understanding.

Maybe so, but the suggestion by some, including McGregor himself, is that he relies solely on hard work and belief and that there is no such thing as talent. By this logic, we can say the reason Artem Lobov and Gunnar Nelson are not the champions of their respective weightclass is because they do not work hard enough or believe in themselves or both. The same can be said for all of his team mates, Daly, Pendred, Holohan etc.

Or is it a case that a combination of factors lead to a fighters success, including hard work, belief, talent, coaching and a whole host of other things.

Outlaw Pete

Eubank knows the score. Wise man :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dz7PM9HHKrs

rustynutz

spix wrote: »

You know nothing about fighting if that's what you think....it's not his left hand that's impressive its the skills he uses to land it. He's not a brawler, does not throw haymakers at close range and hope for the best if that's what you consider a talented fighter. His ground game is nothing great but nowhere near as bad as some people seem to think.

His boxing against nate diaz in the 2nd fight was masterful, for first 2 rounds he countered diaz every single time with crazy reflexes, kept a perfect range, basically made diaz look like a fool until he started tiring a bit. When you compare that to diaz vs cerrone or michael johnson you can really see how conors standup is leagues above most ufc fighters in terms of ability to slip punches, distance recognition, countering. The main problem I see with his standup is he seems to overthink things at times and lets himself be backed up too easily, probably from losing confidence as he starts to tire a bit.

The point I'm trying to make is, without the belief he has in himself, and his motivation to work hard, he would not be taking up at least four different threads in the MMA forum. These two things have brought him farther than any talent he has. But I agree with you, he has very good stand up skills, but I believe these are things hes worked on and perfected through hard work, and self belief.

On the other side of the coin, although he was very impressive in round one of the first Diaz fight, and the first round and a half in the second fight, he ultimately lost once and nearly lost a second time to an average fighter in Diaz. And both fights were won or lost on his feet (I know he lost by submission in the first fight, but he went to ground out of desperation, the damage was done on his feet), and Diaz is a better wrestler than boxer.

rustynutz

Django99 wrote: »

Maybe so, but the suggestion by some, including McGregor himself, is that he relies solely on hard work and belief and that there is no such thing as talent. By this logic, we can say the reason Artem Lobov and Gunnar Nelson are not the champions of their respective weightclass is because they do not work hard enough or believe in themselves or both. The same can be said for all of his team mates, Daly, Pendred, Holohan etc.

Or is it a case that a combination of factors lead to a fighters success, including hard work, belief, talent, coaching and a whole host of other things.

I think self belief is the number one attribute in anyone who is successful, be it sport, business or whatever. Unfortunately, I also think unbreakable self belief is not something that can be taught, you are born with it. I believe everything else comes from that belief, hard work dedication etc.

And obviously luck plays a big part also, being in the right place at the right time, not picking up injuries etc.

Legend_DIT

Django99 wrote: »

I find the whole hard work and belief thing a bit strange. So is that suggesting that everyone who isn't successful doesn't work hard enough or believe in themselves?

Hard work is not enough but it is essential. Belief is not enough but it is essential. As life is not fair, not everyone who 'deserves' success will get it, and we only really get to hear about the ones who do succeed for the most part so its hard to say that there is any particular thing which determines success.

There is a big confluence of factors at play regarding Conor's success for example:

1) He happened to find a sport that he was interested enough in to stick at and develop his talents
2) He happened to find a coach who was able to help him improve whatever raw abilities he started with
3) He thrives under pressure and has the self-belief to set ambitious goals for himself
4) He trains hard in a bid to improve his skills
5) He is charismatic and understands that showing his personality is a key factor in his success.
6) Luck

I acknowledge that there's many other factors as well I haven't mentioned as well but of the ones above, I think 3 and 5 are what make Conor stand out. His self-belief is amazing and the fact that he is in a position where he delivered on becoming a 2 weight UFC champion from predicting it when he was nowhere near fighting Aldo suggests to me that as much as many people may not think he has a chance against Mayweather, my feeling is that he himself certainly does (rightly or wrongly). While it would be nice to see Conor defending the LW belt as a fan, he seems to me more interested in creating history and epic moments - which no title defence ever will - a defence is not seen as an achievement in the way winning a title is as it is the status quo. DJ is a supremely skilled fighter but defending his title so many times is not exciting and reminds me of a "Boss" at the end of the video game, while Conor wants to be the "Hero" who achieves something by taking on the champ (in a weight for which he is scoffed at as having no chance in or against an unbeaten fighter in a completely different discipline using different rules) and upset the odds again!

wonderfullife

It should always be reiterated that Conor (much like Jon Jones and Kevin Lee) has great attributes that are pure genetics. Hard work then comes in maximizing his attributes.

As Dan Hardy pointed out, only Stefan Struve has a longer reach than Jones 84" and for Conor to have a 74" reach in a 5'9 frame is a huge plus.

Conor has a reach advantage over Maia, Cerrone, Ponzinibbio, Colby Covington, RDA, Gunni, Tarec Saffiedine and an identical reach to Robbie Lawler, Masvidal, and Tyron Woodley.

That's pretty incredible to not be giving up a reach advantage to 10 of the top 15 at welterweight. I've no doubt Conor works insanely hard but a 74" reach for a natural lightweight is something he either has or he doesn't have.

The hard work is then trying to use what your parents gave you (genetics) and exploit them, and imo he's probably the very best in the middle weight classes at judging range, distance, timing. Only Jon Jones and Mighty Mouse are arguably better.

It's even more remarkable how Conor exploits his reach. Most guys with a long reach at lightweight (Nate, Ferguson, Lee) exploit it behind solid boxing fundamentals (the jab), both to set up offence and to disrupt rhythm for defence. Conor's success despite the lack of a jab is incredible.

For the same reasons as I listed above, I think Kevin Lee is a surefire future lightweight champion. Freak genetics (77" reach at 5'9), brute strength, good grappling, competent boxing, strong work ethic, still very young, learns from his losses and has bulletproof confidence. In a couple of years from now he's going to be a nightmare for anyone to handle.

Frank Bullitt

wonderfullife wrote: »

It should always be reiterated that Conor (much like Jon Jones and Kevin Lee) has great attributes that are pure genetics. Hard work then comes in maximizing his attributes.

As Dan Hardy pointed out, only Stefan Struve has a longer reach than Jones 84" and for Conor to have a 74" reach in a 5'9 frame is a huge plus.

Conor has a reach advantage over Maia, Cerrone, Ponzinibbio, Colby Covington, RDA, Gunni, Tarec Saffiedine and an identical reach to Robbie Lawler, Masvidal, and Tyron Woodley.

That's pretty incredible to not be giving up a reach advantage to 10 of the top 15 at welterweight. I've no doubt Conor works insanely hard but a 74" reach for a natural lightweight is something he either has or he doesn't have.

The hard work is then trying to use what your parents gave you (genetics) and exploit them, and imo he's probably the very best in the middle weight classes at judging range, distance, timing. Only Jon Jones and Mighty Mouse are arguably better.

It's even more remarkable how Conor exploits his reach. Most guys with a long reach at lightweight (Nate, Ferguson, Lee) exploit it behind solid boxing fundamentals (the jab), both to set up offence and to disrupt rhythm for defence. Conor's success despite the lack of a jab is incredible.

For the same reasons as I listed above, I think Kevin Lee is a surefire future lightweight champion. Freak genetics (77" reach at 5'9), brute strength, good grappling, competent boxing, strong work ethic, still very young, learns from his losses and has bulletproof confidence. In a couple of years from now he's going to be a nightmare for anyone to handle.

This is all pretty much spot on.

But, in the context of the upcoming contest, I hope that the part in bold has been addressed.

wonderfullife

wonderfullife wrote: »

It should always be reiterated that Conor (much like Jon Jones and Kevin Lee) has great attributes that are pure genetics. Hard work then comes in maximizing his attributes.

In a sport like basketball I think you can put a lot of focus on genetics and having the right build.

With a multi-faceted sport like MMA there is so many skillsets and routes to victory. I don't think there is any proof of an ideal genetic makeup. Champions have come in all shapes and sizes (and ethnicities).

Conor makes good use of his reach, for sure. But there are short stocky guys who make good use of their low center of gravity. There are powerful guys who make good use of their power early on. Less muscular guys who win via better cardio.

I just think it's a very defeatist attitude to look at a rangy guy in and say he has an advantage because he's rangy. Figure out how to use your own frame to your advantage.

cletus

He doesn't have an advantage because he's rangy, though, he has an advantage because he has become very adept at using the range he has.

JP Liz V1

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

It's just aimed at people with more money than sense.

Irish Government :P

wonderfullife

An oldie with Bas Rutten and Josh Barnett acting out Conor v Floyd. It's how a lot of you see the fight going

2:37 to 3:03

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfkPNFV2Evs

wonderfullife

1:27:54 Paulie Malignaggi discussing sparring at the UFC Performance Institute with Conor.

Nothing too dramatic in there but he does address the marks/bruises on his face after sparring:

"My face marks up a bit easier if I haven't sparred in a while but we both landed some good shots. You're not going to get in the shower without getting wet. Listen Conor doesn't have "wow" power in his hands, that type of "omg" power is a rare thing, but if he lands cleanly in the smaller 10oz gloves you're probably going down".

Seems slightly pissed off they kept him hanging around like a spare tool Saturday watching Conor spar Tiernan and Artem and didn't put him in the ring but says he's going back Monday and expect more consistent work.

Interestingly he sort of alluded to the fact he didn't know who was running Conor's corner, says there was a lot of voices but he didn't know who was the Coach, who was the doctor, who was the photographer, who was a hanger-on etc :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5WrzfJQjE

wonderfullife

wonderfullife wrote: »

Seems slightly pissed off they kept him hanging around like a spare tool Saturday watching Conor spar Tiernan and Artem and didn't put him in the ring but says he's going back Monday and expect more consistent work.

I called it, Paulie not happy that he was not picked. A two-time champ taking time out of his day to join the camp (at their request) and he sits on the bench in favour of Artem... Suggests they were not happy with the first sparring session.

McGregor likes training partners who are young and/or deferential to him. Zahabi alluded to it in his analysis of Conor's ground game (and the holes therein). He said he had seen it many times, a guy is the 'big star' in a gym and nobody wants to push him or embarrass him in training.

I think Paulie went too hard or showed Conor up and I would not be surprised if he doesn't spar again.

Interestingly he sort of alluded to the fact he didn't know who was running Conor's corner, says there was a lot of voices but he didn't know who was the Coach, who was the doctor, who was the photographer, who was a hanger-on etc

Too many chiefs.

Strange that he would not know who Conor's coach was, suggests he was not introduced. Or that Kavanagh was opposed to his presence. It begs the question, who is running the camp? I suspect there is a bit of a power struggle in his corner at the moment, the boys from Crumlin are vying for more prominent roles and Kavanagh doesn't have Conor's ear the way he used to.

Doesn't paint a good picture anyway.

Gamebred

Love to know the thinking behind choosing to spar some amatuer and some nobody pro instead of using Malinaggi whose sitting outside the ring, mind boggling.

Frank Bullitt

Using Artem over Paulie...

Too Tough To Die

That Paulie doesn't know who is in charge suggests they're not really picking his brains for his expertise.

Frank Bullitt

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

That Paulie doesn't know who is in charge suggests they're not really picking his brains for his expertise.

I don't think that was ever on the cards really.

I thought that Roddy was in charge of this one? Didn't Kavanagh say that in an interview not too long ago?

Ultimate Seduction

I see all this as Paulie having needles. They didn't want his advice, just a sparring partner. Conor said as much. "He's coming in for a knock, then he can answer to the **** he's been saying"

Gintonious

Gintonious wrote: »

I don't think that was ever on the cards really.

I thought that Roddy was in charge of this one? Didn't Kavanagh say that in an interview not too long ago?

To me it just sounds like Paulie felt like a third wheel, only sparred one of the days he was there and then sat around the other days, not knowing who was in charge.

He has more experience and knowledge than the rest of the camp put together. I would have expected they would pick his brain, ask him to sit in while they watched footage (which I believe is a big element of Conor's camps), give pointers to the younger sparring partners etc.

Otherwise what is the point of bringing him in? (im sure his time wasn't cheap).

Maybe Conor genuinely didn't like some of Paulie's comments during the press tour and they had gone cold on him before he even arrived. I don't think they will even like his comments here, most people in his camp fawn over Conor's power but Paulie seems fairly unimpressed.

Inviere

What were the comments from Paulie that Conor was referring to?

cloudatlas

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

That Paulie doesn't know who is in charge suggests they're not really picking his brains for his expertise.

I think he knows who everyone is but in terms of leadership and distinct voices in the camp like somebody said maybe they are all just chipping in on different areas instead of sticking to their expertise at least so far as what Pauli has seen.

If they didn't want Pauli there then they would not have asked him.