Brexit discussion thread II

Jayop

Yeah pat. I can't help but feel that the DUP will lose support over this move. All but the hard line could see this was the solution and they are cutting off their nose (and the nose of everyone in Ireland) to spite their face.

ThisRegard

Peregrinus wrote: »

before anyone had signed on the dotted line,

But by all accounts the wording was signed off.

Chips Lovell

I was surprised they managed to (briefly) strike a deal yesterday. Beforehand, I thought it more likely than not there'd be "insufficient progress" again by the time of the December EU Council meeting.

I suspect the negotiating strategy was to do the deal and, when the DUP inevitably raised objections, quietly reassure it that there wouldn't be any regulatory divergence with the rest of the UK either. If that's the case, what they didn't bank on was an immediate and very public reaction from the DUP before they had a chance to butter them up.

Now May is left with the unenviable task of trying to stick it all back together again before December 14. It's important to bear in mind that the DUP could be overplaying their hand and may be reminded that they're unlikely to do any better with Prime Minister Corbyn at the helm.

Another option is outflanking the DUP and the lunatic fringe of Brexiteers by forming a government of national unity. However, I'd say Labour would extract a high price and while most Conservatives don't like the idea of a hard Brexit, the sense of crisis isn't pronounced enough yet for them to take such drastic action.

Anyway, it's all very entertaining to watch. Just when you thought it might get boring, with the UK government starting to accept reality, it kicks off again.

seamus

Sethanon wrote: »

Its stupidity beyond belief

But completely predictable.

Like you say, politicians in the North have been on the gravy train of the mainland for so long that they see nothing wrong with fighting for the union at all costs. This popped up yesterday from the TUV leader; different party, but they're two shades of the same sh1te: http://tuv.org.uk/no-deal-better-than-a-bad-deal/

They would rather NI became a smoking hole in the ground so long as it remains in the UK. The motherland will provide, the UK will continue sending money, stand firm.

It's a really curious chain of events that's led us to this, with the potential for a really ironic ending. That the Unionists' blind loyalty may be their very undoing. Whatever happens next, the UK majority are going to become aware of this big money pit in NI, and the minority who were happy to completely burn down the UK economy out of adherence to an ideology.

Sethanon

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

On the bolded section, if this is the case then is blocking this deal not political suicide for the DUP? If the deal would have been popular among DUP voters, obviously a majority of the unionist population at the moment, does this not give another unionist party a massive opening to swoop in as the "unionist but pro-deal" alternative?

Very risky move considering that another NI assembly election in the near future is a serious possibility...

To a degree yes, they will loose some fringe voters. But as I said in another post we are in a bubble here. It is more important to get one over on the other side than to benefit the north as a whole. (yes 2017 and that's still how it is).

DUP will still take most of the loyalist votes simply because they do look after their own and that's how people vote here. If people voted sensibly the likes of the SDLP and alliance would be in power... but our bubble doesn't allow that.

The NI assembly is political chess at the minute. Sinn Fein have the morale high ground on rights etc and were crushing the DUP until they got lucky with TM's general election feck up. Now the DUP have the power to not give in to the rights and language issues (these are a big deal to the extreme DUP voters) and Sinn Fein have the morale ground to hold out and hope brexit swings things back in their favour... which it did yesterday. Not having an executive in the north has been the most interesting political chess in years.

And while all this is happening the rest of the NI parties will stay out in the cold looking in because they don't have the pulling power to do anything other than make a few newspaper headlines.

Chips Lovell

One of the reasons I think it may go wrong for the DUP is that they seem a little too enamoured with the clout they now have. After decades in which they and the UUP felt relatively unloved by Westminster, they really appear to be relishing the fact that they have them by the short and curlies now.

murphaph

seamus wrote: »

But completely predictable.

Like you say, politicians in the North have been on the gravy train of the mainland for so long that they see nothing wrong with fighting for the union at all costs. This popped up yesterday from the TUV leader; different party, but they're two shades of the same sh1te: http://tuv.org.uk/no-deal-better-than-a-bad-deal/

They would rather NI became a smoking hole in the ground so long as it remains in the UK. The motherland will provide, the UK will continue sending money, stand firm.

It's a really curious chain of events that's led us to this, with the potential for a really ironic ending. That the Unionists' blind loyalty may be their very undoing. Whatever happens next, the UK majority are going to become aware of this big money pit in NI, and the minority who were happy to completely burn down the UK economy out of adherence to an ideology.

I've been saying the same for weeks now. The spleen of the average English nationalist will vent harder than ever when they realise that this little rump of the UK that has been so troublesome and ungrateful actually costs around as much as the EU contribution every year. The DUP will deserve every bit of what comes their way. Shortsighted clowns of the highest order.

demfad

DUP is currently the trending topic amonst the Internet Research Agency (Olgino Troll factory) in St Petersburg.



Russian policy is a no-deal Brexit that would inflict maximum harm to EU (and UK obviously)

Infini

demfad wrote: »

DUP is currently the trending topic amonst the Internet Research Agency (Olgino Troll factory) in St Petersburg.



Russian policy is a no-deal Brexit that would inflict maximum harm to EU (and UK obviously)

IRA..... think those OTHER lads might wanna word with them about this!

kowtow

ThisRegard wrote: »

But by all accounts the wording was signed off.

The only thing which makes me thing it was a little bit less than signed off is that
it was still changing yesterday morning:

Tony Connelly‏Verified account
@tconnellyRTE
24h24 hours ago
More
The draft text on Ireland has since been updated to include the phrase "continued regulatory alignment" rather than "no regulatory divergence", acc to well-placed sources

Tony Connelly‏Verified account
@tconnellyRTE
24h24 hours ago
More
Acc to one version of EU-UK draft: “In the absence of agreed solutions the UK will ensure that there continues to be no divergence from those rules of the internal market + customs union which, now or in the future, support North South cooperation +protection of the GFA.”

flaneur

demfad wrote: »

DUP is currently the trending topic amonst the Internet Research Agency (Olgino Troll factory) in St Petersburg.

Russian policy is a no-deal Brexit that would inflict maximum harm to EU (and UK obviously)

You can expect any opportunity to be exploited by those.

GalwayMark

flaneur wrote: »

You can expect any opportunity to be exploited by those.

I'd suspect we're heading for a showdown with the Kremlin's Thugs anytime soon diplomatically.

steddyeddy

So what's the chance of the UK staying in the customs union? In order to do that they can say goodbye to freedom of movement.

blanch152

Sethanon wrote: »

To a degree yes, they will loose some fringe voters. But as I said in another post we are in a bubble here. It is more important to get one over on the other side than to benefit the north as a whole. (yes 2017 and that's still how it is).

DUP will still take most of the loyalist votes simply because they do look after their own and that's how people vote here. If people voted sensibly the likes of the SDLP and alliance would be in power... but our bubble doesn't allow that.

The NI assembly is political chess at the minute. Sinn Fein have the morale high ground on rights etc and were crushing the DUP until they got lucky with TM's general election feck up. Now the DUP have the power to not give in to the rights and language issues (these are a big deal to the extreme DUP voters) and Sinn Fein have the morale ground to hold out and hope brexit swings things back in their favour... which it did yesterday. Not having an executive in the north has been the most interesting political chess in years.

And while all this is happening the rest of the NI parties will stay out in the cold looking in because they don't have the pulling power to do anything other than make a few newspaper headlines.

One of the interesting things to do is to speculate how things might have gone had the moderate parties in the North held on or made gains.

If Alasdair McDonnell, Mark Durkan and Margaret Ritchie had been elected for the SDLP, Naomi Long for the Alliance, as well as Tom Elliott and Danny Kinahan for the Ulster Unionists, (only 8,600 votes would need to change) would the Northern Ireland voice in Westminister have been very different?

Would the DUP have been able to get us to this situation?

Is there a lesson for the Northern Irish electorate?

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

So what's the chance of the UK staying in the customs union? In order to do that they can say goodbye to freedom of movement.

If she cannot get some kind of deal done this week, surely has to be a January election?
The forces within the Tories cannot stalk any longer they will have to move.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

One of the interesting things to do is to speculate how things might have gone had the moderate parties in the North held on or made gains.

If Alasdair McDonnell, Mark Durkan and Margaret Ritchie had been elected for the SDLP, Naomi Long for the Alliance, as well as Tom Elliott and Danny Kinahan for the Ulster Unionists, (only 8,600 votes would need to change) would the Northern Ireland voice in Westminister have been very different?

Would the DUP have been able to get us to this situation?

Is there a lesson for the Northern Irish electorate?

At the end of the day, if you want to speculate: had May NOT paid the bung then this would have been sorted out between the EU and the UK. Both sides taking into account all the views.
What happened was, one party vetoed everybody else's views.

solodeogloria

Good morning!

blanch152 wrote: »

One of the interesting things to do is to speculate how things might have gone had the moderate parties in the North held on or made gains.

If Alasdair McDonnell, Mark Durkan and Margaret Ritchie had been elected for the SDLP, Naomi Long for the Alliance, as well as Tom Elliott and Danny Kinahan for the Ulster Unionists, (only 8,600 votes would need to change) would the Northern Ireland voice in Westminister have been very different?

Would the DUP have been able to get us to this situation?

Is there a lesson for the Northern Irish electorate?

The bigger lesson is for the British electorate. Why weren't they more decisive in June? Had they been this would have been signed yesterday.

The biggest is of course for the prime minister and the gamble to hold an election in June.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Schorpio

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!

The bigger lesson is for the British electorate. Why weren't they more decisive in June? Had they been this would have been signed yesterday.

The biggest is of course for the prime minister and the gamble to hold an election in June.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Had they not voted for Brexit in the first place then they'd have a stronger currency, economic outlook, no NI border, and none of this would be an issue in the first place. But hey, whatever works for you.

listermint

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!



The bigger lesson is for the British electorate. Why weren't they more decisive in June? Had they been this would have been signed yesterday.

The biggest is of course for the prime minister and the gamble to hold an election in June.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Dont listen to spin and zero facts and this never would have happened.

Entirely accurate post Solo, i commend you.

LeinsterDub

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!



The bigger lesson is for the British electorate. Why weren't they more decisive in June? Had they been this would have been signed yesterday.

The biggest is of course for the prime minister and the gamble to hold an election in June.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

If the British electorate are going to learn anything it should be
A) What the EU does.
All the lies they where told during the referendum.
C) How to pressure for a second vote.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

At the end of the day, if you want to speculate: had May NOT paid the bung then this would have been sorted out between the EU and the UK. Both sides taking into account all the views.
What happened was, one party vetoed everybody else's views.

That party was only in the position to do so because of the Northern Ireland electorate voting them and an abstentionist party in.

It would have been much better for Northern Ireland had the UUP, Alliance and SDLP taken seats in the last general election and provided a counterweight to the bigots in the DUP.

Infini

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!



The bigger lesson is for the British electorate. Why weren't they more decisive in June? Had they been this would have been signed yesterday.

The biggest is of course for the prime minister and the gamble to hold an election in June.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

The British Electorate were sold a pig in a poke based on lies, fantasies and the Russian Troll Army for good measure. Even at that it was a THIN majority that split the country literally in half.

It was made worse by calling an election that lost the conservatives their majority and then they make an agreement with the least negotiable party in the place who cant even be reasonable enough to agree to get their assembly back up.

flaneur

While there may be Russian trolls, the single biggest problem in the UK is the tabloid newspapers behaving more like political actors than real news outlets.

There aren't too many countries where media outlets openly back particular candidates and policies and go off on crusades. That has been the norm in the UK for decades and it's become the norm in the USA, since Fox News came on the scene and more or less translated the concept of a right wing British tabloid into a UK TV context.

Now with specialised online media and so on it's like tabloids on steroids.

British TV and radio is at least balanced, thanks to the BBC and C4 setting the tone as public service broadcasters and heavy regulation.

I just worry a little that in this "oh it's Russian trolls!" that they're just absolving themselves of any responsibility for creating and buying into very politically divisive agendas that were home-grown.

I'm not saying that there aren't Russian trolls, but the home grown ones are FAR bigger.

Peregrinus

steddyeddy wrote: »

So what's the chance of the UK staying in the customs union? In order to do that they can say goodbye to freedom of movement.

It's single market participation that requires free movement of labour. I don't think that's necessary to participate in the European Customs Union.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

That party was only in the position to do so because of the Northern Ireland electorate voting them and an abstentionist party in.

It would have been much better for Northern Ireland had the UUP, Alliance and SDLP taken seats in the last general election and provided a counterweight to the bigots in the DUP.

That didn't happen.

What happened was that May gave a bung to the DUP in return for power.

That allowed the DUP to veto what should have been an agreement between the UK and the EU.

The warp happened because of May's shortsightedness.

Leroy42

blanch152 wrote: »

That party was only in the position to do so because of the Northern Ireland electorate voting them and an abstentionist party in.

It would have been much better for Northern Ireland had the UUP, Alliance and SDLP taken seats in the last general election and provided a counterweight to the bigots in the DUP.

at least 20 tory MP's, and I would bet a few within the cabinet, vetoed this deal as well. Of course that was on the back of the DUP but they are only part of the problem.

Many Tory are also unionist and coupled with their hatred of the EU will fight for the UK, no matter what the evidence is telling them.

So even if SF/SDLP/Alliance or whatever had won seats the Tory party, whether because of or just with May, are totally divided on this issue. Why do you think May stuck to the inane line of Brexit means Brexit for so long? Because nobody knew what position to take.

Many Brexit voters are still convinced, despite all the evidence, that getting away from the EU is worth the price and that UK will be back to ruling to waves in no time.

And it does seem to be based on nothing more that faith and fear. Much like in the US, the voters of the UK have so little actual facts and stick to soundbites to give their opinions the veneer of fact.

Taking back control, control our borders, British laws for British people. Trade deals with the rest of the world. Its all nonsense, peddled by people that have convinced themselves that fact and reason is no match for faith and ideology.

And you can't disprove them because it is never ending. No matter that the economy has taken a massive drop. It wasn't total wipe-out and it will pick up again at some indetermined point. When? Some time and it will be something. No facts are actually given, no details.

Ask anybody what Brexit means to them and you will get a rambling contradictory spasm of cliches and soundbites. Nothing of substance. Democracy is oft mentioned, but mention a 2nd ref and you will be hounded for daring to bring it up. The people have spoken you are told.

Every let down of previous promises (£350 pw NHS, no divorce settlement etc) is met with the excuse that it is actually all part of a grand UK plan that all the voters seemed to know about but no one else.

Sethanon

blanch152 wrote: »

That party was only in the position to do so because of the Northern Ireland electorate voting them and an abstentionist party in.

It would have been much better for Northern Ireland had the UUP, Alliance and SDLP taken seats in the last general election and provided a counterweight to the bigots in the DUP.

Its not a guarantee it would be better (other than the fact that it would have given the DUP less seats). The other parties are better in theory, but in reality they lack the conviction and backbone to actually do anything. They are stagnant because they do nothing, which is why the DUP and Sinn Fein walk away with so many votes (they do look after their own, which leads to them falling out with eachother - see the DUP minister immediately removing support for the Irish language as soon as the rotation came in for him to be minister. Its all pop shots at each other. Embarrassingly childish and we don't have a choice, as I say the other parties have no backbone.)

blanch152 wrote: »

Is there a lesson for the Northern Irish electorate?

A Lesson that they will pay heed to? I very much doubt it... Bubble, past grudges and all that. (remember you can literally boil the troubles down to 'protestants didn't want catholics having equal rights' that is the low brow mentality we have here in the north)

Leroy42 wrote: »

at least 20 tory MP's, and I would bet a few within the cabinet, vetoed this deal as well. Of course that was on the back of the DUP but they are only part of the problem.

Many Tory are also unionist and coupled with their hatred of the EU will fight for the UK, no matter what the evidence is telling them.

To be honest, having lived in England for a good few years before moving to the north, I can't think of a single English person, never mind torrie, who likes the north or wants it to be part of the UK. Given the choice they would drop it in a heartbeat, and any of them who say different are lying as a means to their own ends. Any torrie who vetoed due to that border has their own agenda, which is probably a hard border or a route to removing TM

Give the English the choice and they would gladly separate from Northern Ireland and Scotland. (which is ironic cause from my experience of living in the highlands of Scotland, they love the English and hate us!)

Peregrinus

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good morning!



The bigger lesson is for the British electorate. Why weren't they more decisive in June? Had they been this would have been signed yesterday.

The biggest is of course for the prime minister and the gamble to hold an election in June.

Nobody votes for a hung parliament. Electorates don't make collective decisions; voters make individual decisions. The polling booth is a very private place. If a hung Parliament results, that doesn't indicate a lack of decisiveness on the voters' part.

The voters are not to blame for the hung parliament but May, as you rightly point out, is. She gambled with the country's interests in order to secure a partisan advantage. She lost the gamble, but it's the country that will lose the stake.

(Bit like Cameron, really. There's been a huge dearth of competent political leadership in the UK in the last few years.)

FrancieBrady

DUP refusing to meet Theresa May.

Get the posters printed.

devnull

Gibraltar have said that they will not back a deal like the one that was tabled yesterday and are backing the DUP.

Meanwhile a few rebel MPs in Labour appear to have broke ranks and are now calling on Corbyn to demand Customs Union membership.

solodeogloria

LeinsterDub wrote: »

If the British electorate are going to learn anything it should be
A) What the EU does.
All the lies they where told during the referendum.
C) How to pressure for a second vote.

Good afternoon!

I was referring to June 2017 and not 2016 :pac:

The UK still needs to carry on with the process of leaving.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

devnull

Jacob Rees Mogg, who recently said that the EU would be insolvent without the UK, has just tweeted claiming that the DUP have saved Brexit by vetoing the deal.

Leroy42

FrancieBrady wrote: »

DUP refusing to meet Theresa May.

Get the posters printed.

I can totally see where the DUP are coming from. They entered into an agreement with May, they laid out their brexit position pretty clearly.

Whilst I think it a totally wrong position to take, they are free to take it and as such have been sold down the river.

If the likes of Boris et al, being in the cabinet, knew of this deal and agreed to it then they have gone back on the very core of what Brexit was about.

If they didn't know, then May should be forced out today.

Leroy42

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good afternoon!

I was referring to June 2017 and not 2016 :pac:

The UK still needs to carry on with the process of leaving.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Why? There are other options

strandroad

devnull wrote: »

Gibraltar have said that they will not back a deal like the one that was tabled yesterday and are backing the DUP.

Meanwhile a few rebel MPs in Labour appear to have broke ranks and are now calling on Corbyn to demand Customs Union membership.

Customs Union without the Single Market, is it the Turkish model?

LeinsterDub

devnull wrote: »

Gibraltar have said that they will not back a deal like the one that was tabled yesterday and are backing the DUP.

Meanwhile a few rebel MPs in Labour appear to have broke ranks and are now calling on Corbyn to demand Customs Union membership.

What Power does Gibraltar have , if any?

LeinsterDub

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good afternoon!

I was referring to June 2017 and not 2016 :pac:

The UK still needs to carry on with the process of leaving.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

I'm aware you were referring 2017. It's funny you feel the UK electorate made a mistake in 2017. Yet the election of bots and lies in 2016 isn't where learnings should be found

FrancieBrady

Leroy42 wrote: »

I can totally see where the DUP are coming from. They entered into an agreement with May, they laid out their brexit position pretty clearly.

Whilst I think it a totally wrong position to take, they are free to take it and as such have been sold down the river.

If the likes of Boris et al, being in the cabinet, knew of this deal and agreed to it then they have gone back on the very core of what Brexit was about.

If they didn't know, then May should be forced out today.

The point is, May should have seen where the DUP where coming from and not touched them with a barge pole.

The fundamental incompetence to allow herself to be embarrassed on the world stage yesterday warrants removal alone. I think it is ultimately her death knell unless she can box them back into the corner.

Peregrinus

Ruth Davidson, Scottish Tory leader, is opposing special treatment for NI but is also calling for whatever measures are needed to ensure an open border in Ireland apply throughout the UK.

"If regulatory alignment in a number of specific areas is the requirement for a frictionless border, the the Prime Minister should conclude this must be on a UK-wide basis."

ThisRegard

devnull wrote: »

Gibraltar have said that they will not back a deal like the one that was tabled yesterday and are backing the DUP.

This whole thing is a dangerously hilarious farce.

https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/938004550291742720

kowtow

devnull wrote: »

Jacob Rees Mogg, who recently said that the EU would be insolvent without the UK, has just tweeted claiming that the DUP have saved Brexit by vetoing the deal.

I think he was pretty clear in saying that the EU would be technically insolvent if Britain just stopped paying within the timeline of the current framework, because it has no power to borrow.

And he is right.

Sethanon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The point is, May should have seen where the DUP where coming from and not touched them with a barge pole.

The fundamental incompetence to allow herself to be embarrassed on the world stage yesterday warrants removal alone. I think it is ultimately her death knell unless she can box them back into the corner.

I would have said it was a good move by TM. In one move she has taken all the pressure off herself and onto the DUP. She smashed out a great deal for the UK (unless you are a hardcore brexitier) and had all sides agree. But for it to be stopped by a small group of bigots in (what the english view as) another country.
This will undermine anything the DUP say now as petty and it gives TM more room to breathe while blaming the DUP

The pressure is on AF now and all eyes are on the DUP. I think it was a smart move by TM.

devnull

The problem is, as much as May is hopeless, Jacob Rees-Mogg would be an even bigger disaster for the UK, but he seems to have a lot of support from the extreme brexiteers who appear to only care about as hard brexit as possible regardless of what impact that has on their lives or what kind of right wing social policies are brought in by such a PM who would be even more out of touch than TM.

His knowledge of politics in Ireland is also hopeless and he seems to love mouthing what he will do and makes it out to be oh so simple but as anyone with any understanding of the matter knows, it's nowhere near that simple as he and his fellow brexiteers paint it as, just full of rhetoric, everything is going to be great and fine and anyone who says otherwise is unpatriotic and the Empire is going to strike back.

Honestly history will not be kind to this group of politicians.

lawred2

Peregrinus wrote: »

Ruth Davidson, Scottish Tory leader, is opposing special treatment for NI but is also calling for whatever measures are needed to ensure an open border in Ireland apply throughout the UK.

"If regulatory alignment in a number of specific areas is the requirement for a frictionless border, the the Prime Minister should conclude this must be on a UK-wide basis."

makes sense one would think..

laugh

Smells like Arlene and Rees-Mogg are cooking May's departure.

Call an election and be honest about the financial implications of a no deal Brexit.

Sam Russell

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The point is, May should have seen where the DUP where coming from and not touched them with a barge pole.

The fundamental incompetence to allow herself to be embarrassed on the world stage yesterday warrants removal alone. I think it is ultimately her death knell unless she can box them back into the corner.

I think the DUP embarrassed TM following the election when TM ran to Buck House to declare she had the backing of the DUP and the Q accepted her assurance, only to learn later that the DUP said NO.

So furious was the Q at the delay in the time allowed for Q's speech (delayed by 24 hours) that she turned up at Westminster in her Ascot hat to give it instead of the Ermine and pearls and gold crown she would normally have to wear.

That should have alerted TM to who she was dealing with, but her judgement was informed by her Remainer creed - 'Must remain PM at all costs'.

Peregrinus

kowtow wrote: »

I think he was pretty clear in saying that the EU would be technically insolvent if Britain just stopped paying within the timeline of the current framework, because it has no power to borrow.

And he is right.

He was saying a bit more than that; he was saying that this "technical insolvency" would force the EU to meet the UK's terms [read: the terms JRM thinks the UK should be prepared to deal on].

And he is wrong. Massively, massively wrong.

laugh

Peregrinus wrote: »

Ruth Davidson, Scottish Tory leader, is opposing special treatment for NI but is also calling for whatever measures are needed to ensure an open border in Ireland apply throughout the UK.

"If regulatory alignment in a number of specific areas is the requirement for a frictionless border, the the Prime Minister should conclude this must be on a UK-wide basis."

But there isn't currently enough support across the Tory party for a leave but stay in type scenario right?

devnull

laugh wrote: »

Smells like Arlene and Rees-Mogg are cooking May's departure.

Call an election and be honest about the financial implications of a no deal Brexit.

If you think that Rees-Mogg is going to be honest about the financial implications of a no deal Brexit then you are living in cloud cuckoo land because he's simply not that kind of person.

He's the Tabloids dream, he gives them many soundbites and tells the leavers what they want to hear despite the fact he has no idea about politics here and seems to think the whole thing is a walk in the park.

That guy is even more out of touch than the current crop of leading government figures involved in Brexit and would take the UK much closer to a very hard or no deal Brexit.

laugh

devnull wrote: »

If you think that Rees-Mogg is going to be honest about the financial implications of a no deal Brexit then you are living in cloud cuckoo land because he's simply not that kind of person.

He's the Tabloids dream, he gives them many soundbites and tells the leavers what they want to hear despite the fact he has no idea about politics here and seems to think the whole thing is a walk in the park.

That guy is even more out of touch than the current crop of leading government figures involved in Brexit and would take the UK much closer to a very hard or no deal Brexit.

I didn't mean him, I meant May should call an election.