Mac V PC Debate….

TerrorFirmer

I've used both (had a macbook) and while I don't have any huge issue with them, I much prefer Windows.

Also not sure what you keep mentioning gaming? A gaming laptop is only different from a 'normal' laptop because it has an expensive dedicated video card. Otherwise there is literally no difference whatsoever. In fact a gaming laptop is far more likely to be unsuitable as many of them are bulkier to accomodate better cooling for CPU and the GPU.

With Macs you are paying heavily for the design, asthetics, etc. Some of the super sleek windows laptops are more similar in price to a MacBook, though still offer better value.

Not saying to buy this one but for example this is a good all rounder for €800 - looks great, light and sleek, with better hardware spec than the Macbook Pro with a gorgorous QHD screen (brilliant for productivity, editing, etc)

Shop around. Think about what your priorities are.

seachto7

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

I've used both (had a macbook) and while I don't have any huge issue with them, I much prefer Windows.

Also not sure what you keep mentioning gaming? A gaming laptop is only different from a 'normal' laptop because it has an expensive dedicated video card. Otherwise there is literally no difference whatsoever. In fact a gaming laptop is far more likely to be unsuitable as many of them are bulkier to accomodate better cooling for CPU and the GPU.

With Macs you are paying heavily for the design, asthetics, etc. Some of the super sleek windows laptops are more similar in price to a MacBook, though still offer better value.

Not saying to buy this one but for example this is a good all rounder for €800 - looks great, light and sleek, with better hardware spec than the Macbook Pro with a gorgorous QHD screen (brilliant for productivity, editing, etc)

Shop around. Think about what your priorities are.

I mentioned gaming because I was told that the specs in a gaming machine would be more suitable to the specs required for recording music and the load that would take. But that info could be well off the mark ...
I'm not a gamer at all.

In theory that link you included could fulfil my needs.

sunrainmooncl

Have had both and have to say mac. Way, way better

Dramatik

Apple have a refurbished section, I usually buy them from there. You can usually more bang for your buck that way. Never had any problems with them they even have that brand new smell when you peel off the plastic. If you keep an eye out sometimes you can get some good deals, might be worth having a look if you're gonna go mac.

gramar

seachto7 wrote: »

The reason I mentioned a gaming PC, as it was suggested these would be good for recording music, and using plug ins etc, they'd cope with the load.

Do you have a big load?

seachto7

Dramatik wrote: »

Apple have a refurbished section, I usually buy them from there. You can usually more bang for your buck that way. Never had any problems with them they even have that brand new smell when you peel off the plastic. If you keep an eye out sometimes you can get some good deals, might be worth having a look if you're gonna go mac.

Still pretty pricey

seachto7

gramar wrote: »

Do you have a big load?

Jokes aside, not really. I have noticed, on laptops and PCs, latency problems with piano/organ/drum plugins, and I have to go back and edit afterwards.

Never really had this with Macs from my experience.

I'd usually record the keys separetly and turn off everything else, but nearly always have to go back and line things up with the click track.

But I've always been using standard laptops to do this, so that coudl be the issue.

Guitars, etc, I record with a mic, so it doesn't matter.

I would change my audio preferences to an external USB unit too, which helps.

Ubbquittious

I would buy a Mac but the nearest Starbucks is about 40km away so t'would be a waste buying one.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

musiknonstop

I love Macs and would have bought another, but they've priced themselves out of the market. Got a Thinkpad X1 Carbon to replace my 2011 MacBook Pro. It was a great machine and I got good mileage out of it.

Emberly Wrong Swagger wrote: »

Once you go Mac you'll never go back.

VinLieger

Macbook for work and then just build your own PC for about 2/3rds the price you would get one with the same specs off PC world and the likes. Its nowhere near as hard to do as people think.

frag420

op I have used both PC and Mac at home and at work and the Mac wins hands down!!

I bought a Macbook Pro in 2013, only last year I upgraded the RAM to 16gb and swapped out the HD for a SSD. this is all the work that was needed when it got a bit slow on me! It is so fast now, I turn it on and within 3-5 secs i am on the homescreen.

Compare that to when I had a PC, it was a ballache trying to speed it up, difficult to swap out the Ram and HD and took about a about 90 secs to load up once I turned it on!

The Mac is way more intuitive to use, faster, easier to upgrade and looks good sitting atop legs wrapped in skinny jeans inside a coffee shop with exposed brickwork while sipping something with chai in it!!

Once you go Mac....;)

seachto7

But if a windows machine has an SSD, it should be fast correct?

ScumLord

frag420 wrote: »

I bought a Macbook Pro in 2013, only last year I upgraded the RAM to 16gb and swapped out the HD for a SSD. this is all the work that was needed when it got a bit slow on me! It is so fast now, I turn it on and within 3-5 secs i am on the homescreen.

My PC had 16gb of ram from the start but I did the SSD upgrade too, I wouldn't say it'll boot in 3-5 seconds but it's less than 30 seconds. I have a password on my PC though so I don't know the boot time to homescreen.

Compare that to when I had a PC, it was a ballache trying to speed it up, difficult to swap out the Ram and HD and took about a about 90 secs to load up once I turned it on!

I don't know how you could find a PC any harder to upgrade, they're literally exactly the same on the inside. I've upgraded the graphics card 3 times on my computer and when the CPU started to struggle I overclocked it, the bios even has mouse support and changing one setting gave me a 30% faster CPU. I've added extra hard drives, I have 5 in it now. I've maxed out the motherboard now so the next upgrade will likely have to be a motherboard, cpu and ram, but I'll be able to keep everything else.

I just connect the stuff up, windows uses a generic driver until I load up the specific one, if I even need a specific driver. It couldn't be made any easier.

The Mac is way more intuitive to use, faster, easier to upgrade

Macs may be more intuitive if you're not used to windows, I just found it frustrating because it wasn't like windows. the iPad and iPhone do seem very user friendly but from my point of view the desktop is limited and seems fast because of those limits. If you want a machine that can handle anything you want to throw at it then the PC is the only option.

Boom_Bap

I like Macs, in fact I'm hoping to buy one soon. But I'm more of a fan of PC's. I like having the ability to go into the O/S and have a snoop about to try improve or tweak the machine....not that I do it that often, but I have my laptop more tailored to my use than I could do with a Mac.
I can live with the extra 30 seconds of waiting for startup

The_Captain

I have both a Macbook and a Windows laptop.

Prefer the Macbook, but both have pros and cons.

Macbook:

The trackpad is a beast! It is considerably better than anything I've ever used on a windows machine. Add in Jitouch and it's a massive time saver.

My friend downloaded Openemu and said it's great to be able to play emulated games from any console from the Atari 2600 to N64 and beyond on one program. Way better than any windows equivalent. Obviously I wouldn't condone such a thing.

It just feels better. It's easier to use, it's easier to navigate, it's smoother, it's a nicer experience. It makes sense. It's one of the pros of Apple keeping a tight reins on the OS.

Less bugs, less viruses. I've found it rarely crashes, and if it does, it's normally from trying to run 60 tabs and a load of apps at once.

Better hardware. Sure people will tell you you can get a gigaclocked PC with 6.2 terraflops and a time machine to install super-advanced processors from 2122 for the same price as a Macbook, but I don't really care about that. I like the display screen, the fact that the keyboard and keys themselves are backlit, the trackpad, the actual keyboard design, that kind of thing. My Macbook is from 2007, updated to Sierra and still works fine although I reckon any future updates to OSX won't be available for my machine.


PC:

More programs. A LOT more. Most big programs will have a Mac equivalent, but developers make programs for windows, and people copy that program for OSX if it's popular enough. The Apple App Store is very sanitised and a lot of it is basically mobile games for your laptop

More control to mess with it. Stuff like rainmeter to change aesthetics, changing hardware, being able to mess about with the system and change directories and the like. More chance to introduce bugs and break the whole thing, but you have that choice.

Significantly cheaper. If you're only looking for a basic laptop to do basic laptopy things like word processing and internet browsing, you could get three or four PC laptops for the price of one Macbook. Is a Macbook €800 better than a PC? Probably not

ScumLord

The_Captain wrote: »

Better hardware.

I agree with pretty much everything you say, except this. The hardware is exactly the same. Maybe your talking about interface hardware like mice and keyboards but again, there are literally hundreds of really high end keyboards and mice available for the PC, and the mac because they use exactly the same hardware.

Wibbs

The_Captain wrote: »

The trackpad is a beast! It is considerably better than anything I've ever used on a windows machine.

This, so much this. Hell running Windows on a Mac the Apple trackpad drivers are far superior. As has been pointed out the underlying hardware is pretty much identical so how come Windows devs write trackpad software as well? Some are just about ok, some are near unusable if you're coming from a Mac setup and most are a pain.

ScumLord

The problem for windows PCs is everyone expects them to be cheap, so they have to be cheap. I'm sure with some research and a similar budget you'd find something similar but mac do seem to have the edge. Windows lagged behind implementing more advanced trackpad stuff.

I'd also wonder how likely it is for windows users to switch to a mouse when not on the road, even when using a laptop.

Earthhorse

seachto7 wrote: »

But if a windows machine has an SSD, it should be fast correct?

Oh man, I don't know what you want here. Yes, SSDs machines are going to be much faster generally.

You say on the last page that you have problems with lag when recording instruments on Windows but that you also have ways of mitigating that.

A lot of people on here, even Mac users, are saying the price differential for Macs isn't worth it and, on paper, they're probably right. But I think the experience is worth the premium and heck I can even argue that I've saved money but not having to upgrade my machine during the last 7 years. I'll happily pay the price when I do decide to get a new machine.

At the end of the day owning a machine you truly enjoy using, whether its running OS X, Windows or Linux, is the important thing and no amount of examining specs is going to change your mind.

My advice? Flip a coin; heads for one, tails for the other. Your gut will tell you whether you're happy with the result.

Temptamperu

If you wanna game get a PC. If you wanna music/art/CAD get a mac book.

seachto7

Earthhorse wrote: »

Oh man, I don't know what you want here. Yes, SSDs machines are going to be much faster generally.

You say on the last page that you have problems with lag when recording instruments on Windows but that you also have ways of mitigating that.

A lot of people on here, even Mac users, are saying the price differential for Macs isn't worth it and, on paper, they're probably right. But I think the experience is worth the premium and heck I can even argue that I've saved money but not having to upgrade my machine during the last 7 years. I'll happily pay the price when I do decide to get a new machine.

At the end of the day owning a machine you truly enjoy using, whether its running OS X, Windows or Linux, is the important thing and no amount of examining specs is going to change your mind.

My advice? Flip a coin; heads for one, tails for the other. Your gut will tell you whether you're happy with the result.

Haha yes you are right. I don't know what I want. You said a lot about not having to upgrade in 7 years. The argument is that you save down the line with a Mac but I guess someone will argue against that too.

seachto7

seachto7 wrote: »

Haha yes you are right. I don't know what I want. You said a lot about not having to upgrade in 7 years. The argument is that you save down the line with a Mac but I guess someone will argue against that too.

The resale value of macs is very high also compared to windows laptops.

CalamariFritti

seachto7 wrote: »

Out of curiosity, could you recommend a model? I'm still undecided. Leaning more towards a Mac based on a lot of the comments here...

Sorry no I can't really claim proper knowledge on different Windows PCs in detail. I'm on a MacBook for the last 5 years. What I'm saying is really just based on current offers and looking whats inside them and how it compares to whats inside a macbook.

In work we have Lenovo's, they're a pretty solid business machine.

me_irl

Linux PC.

Mint Sauce

Laptop/PC. Basically because it's not an Apple.

Wanderer78

op i think you should buy the most expensive mac you can get, as it seems like they are very nice machines to use and relatively very reliable. you might also gain a complex of superiority due to your purchase. happy purchasing.

Duck Soup

Macs are for posers. PCs are for people too ugly to be posers.

Wibbs

ScumLord wrote: »

The problem for windows PCs is everyone expects them to be cheap, so they have to be cheap. I'm sure with some research and a similar budget you'd find something similar but mac do seem to have the edge. Windows lagged behind implementing more advanced trackpad stuff.

Well to be fair to them they pretty much came up with what became the overall design of the modern laptop(IIRC it was a design partnership thing with Sony back in the early 90's. Steve Jobs was long gone by that stage). First Laptop to ship with a trackpad too in 1994(and had sound and video in/out, SCSI, swappable ports, actual plug and play in hard and software etc).



As I say that's from 23 years ago and compare it to competitor's offerings of that time. It looks almost modern(if the screen filled the frame it might). They had a fair few firsts in laptop design, IIRC first with built in ethernet, SCSI, Firewire, USB, writable CDs and DVDs, then were among the first to get rid of removable media. Their magnetic power socket was genius, and then the got rid if it. Da fun?. One obvious and not least of which thing was having the palm rests nearest the user. Whatever about implementation which could be decidedly variable and cost of course, they were one helluva design force in personal computing. On ergonomics and design and collecting new tech in one portable they made one helluva difference.

I'd also wonder how likely it is for windows users to switch to a mouse when not on the road, even when using a laptop.

Aye, I've seen that myself. Might be a chicken and egg thing though, if the built in "mouse" is poor. Plus it's not so long ago where PC's came at things from the command line paradigm, whereas Apple were GUI from the early 80's. That influenced design and tech and likely the users. So for example that Powerbook from 94 had to have an internal mouse, a PC of the same vintage didn't nearly so much.

Their earlier stuff though mad expensive at the time can keep going for ages. I've a working example of the above 520 and a working example of the 2000 Powerbook G3(and later G4 Ti)*. The G3 - and consider this is from 17 years ago - has a trackpad of course, LED screen, built in ethernet, firewire and USB(S video out, 56k modem, sound in/out), CD burner(I stuck in a 2012 DVD burner and it works), upgraded to a 120Gb hard drive and 1 gig of ram(they allowed for both in the architecture, that far back) and wireless. And with both batteries on board will run for the day pretty much. Oh and is running MacOS X Tiger(I've a second one running some flavour or other of Linux and the Mac OS is faster). Quite often I browse Boards on it. Though IMHO it was one of the apogees of their output. And looks like Batman's laptop, The BatBook.



Yes Apple can be a glorious pain in the arse. Yes they can be bloody expensive. Yes they can be troublesome when they overreach. Yes they are the fave of pseuds and hipsters and a few coffee house ****. However in my humble the world of personal computing would be much the poorer if they never existed.




*then I am mad to be fair. As The Collector I also have two working Apple eMates. And a couple of working Newtons(working being a open to debate). In boxes. Oh yeah. Antiques Roadshow in 20 years beckons. ;-) Though in fairness I have not tried to make them connect to the interwebs like some truly mad propellor heads have. Though I am mad enough to have typed up one of my missives/BS on the eMate, transferred it to a current laptop and posted it online.

astrofool

Wibbs wrote: »

This, so much this. Hell running Windows on a Mac the Apple trackpad drivers are far superior. As has been pointed out the underlying hardware is pretty much identical so how come Windows devs write trackpad software as well? Some are just about ok, some are near unusable if you're coming from a Mac setup and most are a pain.

I've got the precision 5520 and find the trackpad on it superior to the Macbook Air and Pro we also have, Windows also seems to support the gestures by default (haven't installed any trackpad specific driver for it).

Cabaal

Got highest spec imac 27inch back in 2011 as a refurbished model, great machine and still holding good today. I spent 100 upgrading the ram is all.

Next computer will def be a Mac, never had a Windows PC hold up so well for so many years.

CalamariFritti

It's been decades since I've been in a my yoke is greener than yours flamewar. This thread still has potential.

















































sent from my MacBook pro

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

AllForIt

My favorite computer will always be my Windows custom built desktop still going strong since 2007 would you believe. I have it connected to my TV since I added satellite and terrestrial TV cards which is fun. It is also connected to a 22" monitor situated to the right of my sofa so no need for a separate laptop. Wireless keyboard/mouse and gamepad and that's all I need. Don't need a smart TV or Chromecast. I think I spent about a €1,200 on the whole lot excluding the TV since 2007 which ain't bad at all for what I continue to get out of it.

I did install Mac iOS on the desktop to see what all the fuss was about a good few years back. I have to say I didn't particularly like the interface but the file browser was good I recall. I suppose for ppl like me who like to tinker with their computer then a windows machine in the only option. I know Windows inside out by this stage so would never convert to a Mac. I have always found that any issues with the OS can always be fixed if you have the know how.

Dramatik

seachto7 wrote: »

Still pretty pricey

Well unfortunately for you, they're the most expensive they've ever been at the moment, so when you're buying a refurbished model you're essentially spending as much as it was for a brand new MacBook in previous years. I actually ended up buying the previous model of MacBook as opposed to the current model for that reason. Also the new models didn't have an SD card slot for extra HD space and they use the new USB system which I didn't want to buy an extra connection to use. One thing to bare in mind with the MacBook is that I'm pretty sure apple have made it impossible to upgrade them these days, so no upgrading the RAM, no extra HD space, I think everything is soldiered to the board now so you're basically stuck with the specs you bought. There's no way that I could support this choice by Apple which is why I went with an older model, don't get me wrong though even though it was a refurbished model and was a previous year's model, it still cost me the guts of 2 grand.

seachto7

I think I'm going to go with a Windows machine. It'll have more than I'll need.
I suppose, the choice was easier with the Mac, in that I was only going to pay so much.
With Windows, I guess the choice is far greater, so if I could replicate the Mac specs or even have better specs, I'd be happy with that.
Plus, the USB input could be an issue. I wouldn't mind a DVD drive either.
Someone posted a link earlier to a windows machine for around €800. Even that might have way too much for me, but I'll have to get something better than bog standard.
Saying that, like a refurb laptop I bought in 2013, it froze after a few years use, and packed in.

ScumLord

seachto7 wrote: »

Saying that, like a refurb laptop I bought in 2013, it froze after a few years use, and packed in.

When it comes to electronics it can be better to go new. You have the warranty should anything go wrong. Many components come with a life span, monitors and displays for example are only expected to last 60,000 hours, maybe even less. LED last twice that I think. But after two years I would be wary of how much life is left in any electronic component, there's no reason why they shouldn't last a lifetime but I don't trust manufacturers much anymore. That's not to say any laptop would break down but with new you're guaranteed 2-3 years of use. With a refurb it's a gamble and you have no comeback.

Try and get something with an SSD hard drive, makes a huge performance difference and has no moving parts to break down.

At this stage I'd hop over to one of the PC forums, I'm not sure if building and upgrading is the right place to spec a laptop, but the people in those forums know their stuff and what's currently available.

Sciprio

Apple products looks good but when it comes to specs they'll be out perform by a pc/laptop for that price. If you built it yourself it'll be cheaper then just walking into a store and buying a prebuilt one. I built a pc for myself just over three months ago. She's a beast of a thing! Really pleased.

For you fellow pc gamers. (i7-6700k, GTX 1070, 16GB RAM, 250GB SSD, 1TB harddrive.) Got a lovely Asus 144HZ gaming Monitor aswell.

OSI

OSI wrote: »

This always crops in these discussions and is not true at all. Mac OS is fundamentally Unix at the end of the day, so there is plenty of "tinkering" you can do to the system if you so desire.

Much nicer for interfacing with Linux also given the terminal is also a default application on Mac and uses similar commands etc.

Sciprio wrote: »

Apple products looks good but when it comes to specs they'll be out perform by a pc/laptop for that price. If you built it yourself it'll be cheaper then just walking into a store and buying a prebuilt one. I built a pc for myself just over three months ago. She's a beast of a thing! Really pleased.
.

On paper they might be better but from my experience Macs are faster than the equivalent or better spec'd windows machines and OSX is a far cleaner operating system with far less issues than windows has.

Billy86

ScumLord wrote: »

The problem for windows PCs is everyone expects them to be cheap, so they have to be cheap. I'm sure with some research and a similar budget you'd find something similar but mac do seem to have the edge. Windows lagged behind implementing more advanced trackpad stuff.

I'd also wonder how likely it is for windows users to switch to a mouse when not on the road, even when using a laptop.

For a similar budget on PC, you'd tend to get an awful lot more than a Mac to be fair. Quick example, I put 'Macbook Pro' into Amazon, clicked the first one to come up, then searched for 'gaming laptop' and clicked the first PC laptop with an equivalent price. The following two are only the same price because the Mac is currently 21% off.

Mac: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-MacBook-13-inch-Laptop-Graphics/dp/B01MG6SFTR/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1500647859&sr=1-1&keywords=macbook+pro

PC: https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-15-ce013na-Gaming-Laptop-Shadow/dp/B072Q3RW3M/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1500647984&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=gaming+laptop&psc=1

PC has the newest version of an i7 processor which will significantly outperform any i5, would also have newer DDR4 ram as opposed to DDR3, has GTX 1060 graphics which are incomparably better than Iris, the Mac does have double the size SSD but the PC also comes with a 1TB HDD, and it also has a 2.5" larger screen.

Unless I'm missing something here, the PC is just a far better system in about every conceivable way.

Sciprio

Emberly Wrong Swagger wrote: »

Much nicer for interfacing with Linux also given the terminal is also a default application on Mac and uses similar commands etc.



On paper they might be better but from my experience Macs are faster than the equivalent or better spec'd windows machines and OSX is a far cleaner operating system with far less issues than windows has.

But it's not just on paper.

It's the physical components inside the machine. If you cheap out on the cheapest laptop/computer of course it won't compare to a apple computer but there is no doubt, if you have the money to build/buy a mid to high end PC it will outperform the Apple computer. Remember Windows is only the operating system and if you don't like windows you can install Linux or even both if you want. With Apple you're locked into what they choose which is why i don't care for them.

seachto7

I'll get through these links later! Thanks folks. I'll head on over to the PC forum for more.

I won't be tinkering with anything, but will probably have to custom spec before I buy.

Sciprio

Sciprio wrote: »

But it's not just on paper.

It's the physical components inside the machine. If you cheap out on the cheapest laptop/computer of course it won't compare to a apple computer but there is no doubt, if you have the money to build/buy a mid to high end PC it will outperform the Apple computer. Remember Windows is only the operating system and if you don't like windows you can install Linux or even both if you want. With Apple you're locked into what they choose which is why i don't care for them.

Well I'm telling you from experience, I have a windows laptop from work which is newer and has higher specs than my Macbook pro and my Macbook performs considerably faster and has far better hardware (for example as I said earlier operating the touch pad is like having a boxing glove on). Its why I use my Macbook for work a lot of the time also as its a pleasure to use and basically never undock the work laptop from my desk.

Sciprio

Emberly Wrong Swagger wrote: »

Well I'm telling you from experience, I have a windows laptop from work which is newer and has higher specs than my Macbook pro and my Macbook performs considerably faster and has far better hardware (for example as I said earlier operating the touch pad is like having a boxing glove on). Its why I use my Macbook for work a lot of the time also as its a pleasure to use and basically never undock the work laptop from my desk.

I'm not saying anything. I think some companies when they hear Apple Macbook it must be good And they are, (but overpriced for what you get) But when it comes to laptops they probably just ordered a bunch of low-mid tier laptops "sure they all do the same thing" that's what the boss probably thought. Anyway the choice is up to the person to pick what's right for them and suits. Whether that's a PC or a Apple Macbook.

VinLieger

I noticed people mentioning macs being upgrade able etc. While that was true for previous versions of macbooks the newest version and one before it were pretty well locked up by apple and your not even able to add in extra ram anymore. Windows laptops are still pretty easy to upgrade as long as you don't mind breaking manufacturers warranty and of course know what your doing and dont wreck everything

Gravelly

I think the whole "you can get the world's greatest super dooper windows laptop with a gajillion megathingys of RAM for the price of a Mac" stuff misses the entire point - Macs are popular because they are just nicer to use. I couldn't give a monkeys what processor, RAM, or anything else my laptop has, like most users, I want something that is really nice to use, works every time, doesn't crash or lose my work, is easy to carry when I travel, and lasts.
Mac covers all that, windows, at any price or spec, doesn't. Like 99% of laptop users I send emails, surf the internet, work on documents, and watch the odd movie when I travel. I don't need something that has the world's fastest processor, almost nobody does.

seachto7

Gravelly wrote: »

I think the whole "you can get the world's greatest super dooper windows laptop with a gajillion megathingys of RAM for the price of a Mac" stuff misses the entire point - Macs are popular because they are just nicer to use. I couldn't give a monkeys what processor, RAM, or anything else my laptop has, like most users, I want something that is really nice to use, works every time, doesn't crash or lose my work, is easy to carry when I travel, and lasts.
Mac covers all that, windows, at any price or spec, doesn't. Like 99% of laptop users I send emails, surf the internet, work on documents, and watch the odd movie when I travel. I don't need something that has the world's fastest processor, almost nobody does.

I don't but need a fast one. I don't need top of the range. The main heavy loads will be music recording software.

ScumLord

Gravelly wrote: »

I couldn't give a monkeys what processor, RAM, or anything else my laptop has, like most users, I want something that is really nice to use, works every time, doesn't crash or lose my work, is easy to carry when I travel, and lasts.
Mac covers all that, windows, at any price or spec, doesn't.

To be fair to windows 10 I haven't had any of the usual windows problems that plagued it in the past. It's been rock solid ever since I installed it. The problem for windows has always been anyone can make hardware and software for it. It works with everything, macs don't have that issue, it's more of a closed system. With windows 10 they seem to finally gotten to a stage where things run very smoothly.

Like 99% of laptop users I send emails, surf the internet, work on documents, and watch the odd movie when I travel. I don't need something that has the world's fastest processor, almost nobody does.

That's fair enough, for most people that just want a tool that does the job I'd have no issues telling them to get a mac. But once you start asking about value for money PCs have to come into the equation, because the fact is you can get more for your money with a PC. Plus once people start making specific demands you have to take into consideration whether a mac would even meet their requirements. If they want a gaming machine for example PC is the only option.

Billy86

Gravelly wrote: »

I think the whole "you can get the world's greatest super dooper windows laptop with a gajillion megathingys of RAM for the price of a Mac" stuff misses the entire point - Macs are popular because they are just nicer to use. I couldn't give a monkeys what processor, RAM, or anything else my laptop has, like most users, I want something that is really nice to use, works every time, doesn't crash or lose my work, is easy to carry when I travel, and lasts.
Mac covers all that, windows, at any price or spec, doesn't. Like 99% of laptop users I send emails, surf the internet, work on documents, and watch the odd movie when I travel. I don't need something that has the world's fastest processor, almost nobody does.

Personally I find a computer that works faster and is capable of more to be better suited to what I want. Anyone who like to play games on their computer, or who does any kind of streaming or editing work, or who even likes to have a lot of things on the go at once like numerous tabs, spreadsheets, programs and media etc, will by default benefit from more RAM and better processors. Saying otherwise is like saying people won't benefit from a better built car if they only plan on driving it because the other car looks prettier.

PCs don't don't crash or randomly delete stuff any more or less than Macs - that's a claim that died out years back, and claims about a Macbook being easier to carry is just... strange to be honest. You can get big, clunky, heavy duty PC laptops or likewise can get very slim, sleek PC laptops.

Macs look nicer from the outside than some PCs (but PCs have a huge variety including many that look almost identical to Macs), and they've done an excellent job or marketing them. The general computing world is also far better off for their existence for a bunch of reasons ranging from innovation to keeping the competition on their toes. But for me that doesn't justify paying substantially more for the same output.

h0neybadger

Get a high specc'd Windows laptop.

Dual boot it with Windows 10 and OS X Sierra.
You'll have the best of both worlds.

Or, install OS X Sierra into a virtual machine.

There's plenty of guides online. Just google them.

No need to spend the large sum of money on a Macbook Air/Pro, when you can spend less money on a Windows laptop with better hardware and run both OS on it.