Is my PS4 dead?

Tusky

I tried to turn my PS4 on today for the first time in a month and it seems completely dead. No lights, no beeps, no fan noises.

I tried plugging the power cable in and out and also changed the fuse in the plug but no joy.

It was bought in Argos 18 months ago. I'm not sure I have the receipt.

Any advice?

Notorious

Tusky wrote: »

It was bought in Argos 18 months ago. I'm not sure I have the receipt.

Any advice?

Find some form of proof of purchase. If you've no receipt, see if there's an entry on your banking statement. It's a little known fact that under EU law (which trumps Irish laws), we have a two year warranty on electrical goods. You're fully entitled to a replacement from Argos (not a refund though).

Please don't whack it again. Don't try to open it up (and break warranty seals in the process). Any signs of physical damage and your chances of a replacement are null and void.

Tusky

Notorious wrote: »

Find some form of proof of purchase. If you've no receipt, see if there's an entry on your banking statement. It's a little known fact that under EU law (which trumps Irish laws), we have a two year warranty on electrical goods. You're fully entitled to a replacement from Argos (not a refund though).

Please don't whack it again. Don't try to open it up (and break warranty seals in the process). Any signs of physical damage and your chances of a replacement are null and void.

Would a bank statement + the Argos reservation email count as proof or purchase?

Notorious

Your bank statement alone should cover it. It's not law that they have to accept is as proof of purchase (AFAIK). Argos seem to be fairly easy going when it comes to replacing faulty product. Bring it back in the box with all original compontents (if you have the box, that is).

Here's that EU good warranty I mentioned earlier: EU goods warranty

whiterebel

Notorious wrote: »

Find some form of proof of purchase. If you've no receipt, see if there's an entry on your banking statement. It's a little known fact that under EU law (which trumps Irish laws), we have a two year warranty on electrical goods. You're fully entitled to a replacement from Argos (not a refund though).

Please don't whack it again. Don't try to open it up (and break warranty seals in the process). Any signs of physical damage and your chances of a replacement are null and void.

Its a little known "fact", because it is wrong.
In Ireland, we didn't enact the 2 year warranty, because we believe that have better protection with the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980. To enforce this, you may need to use the services of the Small claims court.

OP, find your receipt and go back to Argos to see what they say. Credit card statement is enough for proof of purchase. Ask them to replace, repair or refund under the Sale of Goods Act. Some reading to start with: Consumer advice

If they refuse send a registered letter to them requesting them to have it sorted to your satisfaction, and that you want a reply within 10 working days.

Notorious

whiterebel wrote: »

Its a little known "fact", because it is wrong.

Having worked in retail for quite a long time (electronic goods for a period), I'm going to assure you that it is not wrong.

whiterebel

Notorious wrote: »

Having worked in retail for quite a long time (electronic goods for a period), I'm going to assure you that it is not wrong.

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/faulty-goods/

Citizen's information

Nowhere does it mention the EU Directive. Ring either of the above organisations and ask them, I have.

Look at Apple's site - They do the 2 year warranty for European countries apart from Ireland and the UK, who use their Sale of Goods Acts.

Stylesclash07

I had a PS4 that started to eject discs, I had it for two and half years, I rang Argos and they asked me to proof it was an issue that was in the device from the day I bought it, so I called Sony and explained my issue to them, they advised me I could get a replacement for 90 euro but also asked on the call was this a own issue, the advisor told me he had seen it before and he gave me a case number. I went back to Argos with the case number and told them I was speaking to Sony and gave them the case number, half hour later I gave Argos an extra 50 euro and walked out with a PS Pro

Sad Professor

In a lot of cases it doesn't really make a whole lot of difference whether you reference the EU directive or Irish law, both are in effect. But technically I would agree with whiterebel that when dealing with an Irish seller you should be evoking Irish consumer law (i.e. the Irish Sale of Goods Act) rather than the EU directive's 2 year warranty, which is binding on member states rather than on people and companies within them. While its probably more convenient to reference the EU directive in some instances as it is less confusing and sellers are more likely to be familiar with it, you are really underselling your consumer rights which are actually a lot stronger than those required by the EU. In Ireland you can potentially make a claim for up to 6 years, not just two.

whiterebel

There isn't an EU 2 year warranty in effect in Ireland, its not an either/or scenario. Ireland had better protection than the baseline EU requirement, so we retained the SoGA.

Tusky

Thanks guys, very helpful information.

I went back through my emails and thankfully found the receipt.

The console was bought bundled with a game I no longer have - will that be an issue?

What if they ask me to prove it is a faulty product? It has sat under my TV for 18 months and has not been knocked, dropped or damaged...but I can't prove it.

Sad Professor

whiterebel wrote: »

There isn't an EU 2 year warranty in effect in Ireland, its not an either/or scenario. Ireland had better protection than the baseline EU requirement, so we retained the SoGA.

Yes, it's not an either/or scenario because directives are binding on member states and not locally enforceable within the state. Even if Ireland failed to meet the requirements of the directive it would be a matter for the Irish government and the EU. Argos etc wouldn't have to comply with it. But in this case, the directive, which included a minimum 2 year guarantee period, was transposed into Irish law and is in effect. But under Irish law that period is potentially a lot longer than 2 years, so yeah obviously it makes more sense to refer to Irish law's 6 year period than the EU's 2 years.

However, when it comes to dealing with retailers, it's results that matter. And if citing the EU's "2 year warranty" gets your PS4 repaired without any fuss or having to threaten the small claims court on them, then go for it. A lot of retailers who previously pleaded ignorance to all knowledge of consumer rights seem to actually know about the EU directive, so use whatever works I say. But obviously you should be aware that your rights don't end at 2 years and that if you do end up going the small claims route it will be under Irish law not the EU directive.

Sad Professor

Tusky wrote: »

Thanks guys, very helpful information.

I went back through my emails and thankfully found the receipt.

The console was bought bundled with a game I no longer have - will that be an issue?

What if they ask me to prove it is a faulty product? It has sat under my TV for 18 months and has not been knocked, dropped or damaged...but I can't prove it.

As long as there's no signs of damage, I wouldn't worry about this too much. It won't turn on, so it's obviously faulty.

Tusky

Called Sony - they said it would be €150 for a repair as it's out of manufacturer's warranty. They said it is a known issue but not common - happens rarely. Advised me to speak to retailer.

Called Argos branch and spoke to manager. He is arguing that I need to deal with manufacturer and pay the repair fee. He argued EU legislation doesn't apply.

I said this was unacceptable and said he needed to repair/replace/refund. I gave him the Sony case number and he said he'd call me back.

Would put me off buying from Argos again.

whiterebel

Tusky wrote: »

Called Sony - they said it would be €150 for a repair as it's out of manufacturer's warranty. They said it is a known issue but not common - happens rarely. Advised me to speak to retailer.

Called Argos branch and spoke to manager. He is arguing that I need to deal with manufacturer and pay the repair fee. He argued EU legislation doesn't apply.

I said this was unacceptable and said he needed to repair/replace/refund. I gave him the Sony case number and he said he'd call me back.

Would put me off buying from Argos again.

Most, if not all retailers, will try to wriggle out of this. In my opinion he's right, that the EU Directive doesn't apply, its the Sale of Goods Act. If you quote the EU Regs, though, it looks like you don't know what you're rights really are. Read up on the Sale of Goods Act, and the two links I included above, and write to Argos.

Sad Professor

Tusky wrote: »

Called Sony - they said it would be €150 for a repair as it's out of manufacturer's warranty. They said it is a known issue but not common - happens rarely. Advised me to speak to retailer.

Called Argos branch and spoke to manager. He is arguing that I need to deal with manufacturer and pay the repair fee. He argued EU legislation doesn't apply.

I said this was unacceptable and said he needed to repair/replace/refund. I gave him the Sony case number and he said he'd call me back.

Would put me off buying from Argos again.

Usual crap. Unfortunately you'll encounter similar problems with many retailers. In fairness, it's often just ignorance.

No matter, if you get no satisfaction from the manager, tell him you will taking them to the small claims court. You can apply online here. It costs €25. After you submit the application the registrar will notify them and give them 15 days to respond. If they don't respond, the court will issue an order to pay in your favour. If they do respond, they will either accept it or dispute it, but generally for something like this it's really not worth their while going to court over it and they just accept it and pay up.

Tusky

He's insisting I need to send it back to Sony to get a manufacturer's report to say it's a manufacturer's fault rather than caused by user. Says I would have to pay for this.

I argued it out with him, quoting the Sale of Goods Act, but he wouldn't accept it. He eventually gave me the number for Irish head office.

When I rang I just got through to UK customer services. The guy said he didn't know anything about Irish law and said he couldn't reverse manager's decision.

He said he would put me through to a number that deals with Irish stores...it turned out to be a department that handles large item delivery. They couldn't even transfer me to anyone. V.frustrating.

I'm gonna go into the store tomorrow. Can someone quote me the relevant part of the Consumer Rights Act? Specifically the length of time.

I can only find this which references six months?

Repair
If you start using the item for some time then it is deemed that you have accepted the item. But if you discover a fault then you are entitled to have the item repaired or replaced free of charge – provided you did not cause the damage. If the fault occurs within the first 6 months of owning the item, it is accepted that the fault was there when you bought it. In general, the seller can offer to repair the item first. This should be a permanent repair and the problem should not reoccur. If the same fault occurs again, then you should be entitled to a replacement or refund.

Tusky

The manager called me back and said if I have it assessed by any electrical repair shop and it is a fault in the console he will replace it and refund the cost of the assessment. He said I just need a letter on headed paper from the repair shop. It's a lot of hassle but might be the best I'm gonna get - should I go for it?

whiterebel

Tusky wrote: »

The manager called me back and said if I have it assessed by any electrical repair shop and it is a fault in the console he will replace it and refund the cost of the assessment. He said I just need a letter on headed paper from the repair shop. It's a lot of hassle but might be the best I'm gonna get - should I go for it?

You could ask one of the repair places around to have a look at it, without opening it up?

Sad Professor

That seems fair enough, I guess, though I thought Sony already confirmed it was a hardware fault?

Tusky

Sad Professor wrote: »

That seems fair enough, I guess, though I thought Sony already confirmed it was a hardware fault?

They did yeah. Can anyone recommend a repair place in Dublin?

Tusky

Tusky wrote: »

They did yeah. Can anyone recommend a repair place in Dublin?

DON'T bring it to a repair shop. Your contract is with Argos so it's their business to assess it. Manager is talking through his hoop.

F1ngers

You have a case number from the manufacturer, go through the SCC now.
Do not use a repair shop to confirm what the manufacturer has told you.

Tusky

sugarman wrote: »

DO NOT go to a repair place, they'll not only charge you but they'll break the warranty seal if they open it and you'll be completely fecked.

Go down the small claims route, honestly.

Cake of Tremendous Power wrote: »

DON'T bring it to a repair shop. Your contract is with Argos so it's their business to assess it. Manager is talking through his hoop.

F1ngers wrote: »

You have a case number from the manufacturer, go through the SCC now.
Do not use a repair shop to confirm what the manufacturer has told you.

I called Citizen's Advice and they backed up what yea are saying - that it's not on me to bring it to a repair shop and the retailer should deal with it.

However, I feel like going the repair shop route would lead to a quicker resolution. Argos said they will refund the cost of the assessment and the warranty is already up so don't see how opening it will affect that? Maybe a repair should would give me a letter without opening it up?

The small claims route seems like it would be very drawn out.

savemejebus

Tusky wrote: »

I called Citizen's Advice and they backed up what yea are saying - that it's not on me to bring it to a repair shop and the retailer should deal with it.

However, I feel like going the repair shop route would lead to a quicker resolution. Argos said they will refund the cost of the assessment and the warranty is already up so don't see how opening it will affect that? Maybe a repair should would give me a letter without opening it up?

The small claims route seems like it would be very drawn out.

If you bring it to a repair shop and they open the PS4 any and all warranty is voided.

Argos will deny telling you to do so and you will be shafted unless you can provide written proof.

Again, do not bring it to the repair shop.

If you don't want to go small claims court hunt around for an argos management number, it could take a while, and give them the managers name, the sony case number and advise them you know your rights and also that the manager advised you to undertake actions that would invalidate your warranty. If you push enough they should sort you out.

Sad Professor

I don't think it makes any difference if a third party opens it. The manufacturer's warranty, which insists that nobody but them open it, is already expired. I think the manager is telling the truth when he says he just wants a independent report saying x is the problem. I mean, yeah Argos is clearly giving the OP the run around for what seems like a pretty obvious hardware fault, but the "burden of proof" is on the consumer in these cases which is how retailers get away with this. The idea is that most people will say "screw it, it's not worth the hassle".

Just get a report from somewhere, OP. But if you have any more problems with Argos, go straight to the small claims route. It shouldn't be that much hassle at all.

Tusky

Sad Professor wrote: »

I mean, yeah Argos is clearly giving the OP the run around for what seems like a pretty obvious hardware fault, but the "burden of proof" is on the consumer in these cases which is how retailers get away with this. The idea is that most people will say "screw it, it's not worth the hassle".

Is the burden of proof definitely on the customer yeah?

Because that was where I left my argument with the manager. I was saying the burden of proof was on Argos, he was saying it was on the customer.

faceman

I've been successfully through this last year with one of the well know Irish mobile operators and an equally well known mobile phone brand. You'll have to be patient here unfortunately.

Couple of tips on it. The Irish Sale of Goods act is what you need to be quoting, not the EU directive. The Irish act offers more protection than the EU one.

Formally write to Argos. There are sample letter templates to use on the excellent Irish CCPC website as well as very useful information.

https://www.ccpe.ie/consumers/how-to-complain/complaint-letter-templates/

Send the letter by registered post. If you don't get a satisfactory response contact CCPC and they will advise of next steps, which may not need to be the Small Claims Court.

Best of luck!

Sad Professor

Tusky wrote: »

Is the burden of proof definitely on the customer yeah?

Because that was where I left my argument with the manager. I was saying the burden of proof was on Argos, he was saying it was on the customer.

Yeah, after 6 months burden of proof is on the consumer. In practice, though, all this really means is that they don't have to make it easy for you, i.e. they can act ignorant (which in many cases they are because companies don't train their staff). Once you show that you are serious by threatening the small claims court or writing a good letter to head office most places seem to just pay up.

Tusky

faceman wrote: »

I've been successfully through this last year with one of the well know Irish mobile operators and an equally well known mobile phone brand. You'll have to be patient here unfortunately.

Couple of tips on it. The Irish Sale of Goods act is what you need to be quoting, not the EU directive. The Irish act offers more protection than the EU one.

Formally write to Argos. There are sample letter templates to use on the excellent Irish CCPC website as well as very useful information.

https://www.ccpe.ie/consumers/how-to-complain/complaint-letter-templates/

Send the letter by registered post. If you don't get a satisfactory response contact CCPC and they will advise of next steps, which may not need to be the Small Claims Court.

Best of luck!

Should I write to Argos HQ or the branch where I bought it?

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah, after 6 months burden of proof is on the consumer. In practice, though, all this really means is that they don't have to make it easy for you, i.e. they can act ignorant (which in many cases they are because companies don't train their staff). Once you show that you are serious by threatening the small claims court or writing a good letter to head office most places seem to just pay up.

Grand. Thanks again for your help.

faceman

Tusky wrote: »

Should I write to Argos HQ or the branch where I bought it?

Write to the decision makers. Store management or head office. Or both with the same letter.