Public service pay for tech jobs is crazy low!

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AndrewJRenko

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The entire public sector may have a multi billion budget but each individual bit does not.

Just like a multi-national then?

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AndrewJRenko

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And similarly, private sector projects do involve the entire private sector. And in large multi-nationals, IT projects generally do not involve the entire business. The €1m wasted on a vanity project that I mentioned was in a very large multi-national. This €1m related to one very small line of business. It would never have affected the whole organisation. This is the kind of scenario that I'm talking about.

Has any IT failure ever closed down a large business permanently?

beauf

In my opinion the main reason for a IT person to work in the public is for the regular hours and better terms and conditions like flexi-time, more leave, more regular hours and less of those late nights, and weekends you have to do in the private sector. (Sometimes).

The pension is really only great if you have join young and get a lot of years in. If you join late, there is a lot less value in the pension for you. Also your salary will be lower, slower promotion, and no bonuses, share options etc. There is also a higher risk of getting stalled in a propriety tech or system for a long time. Project can be a lot slower to complete. So there is there is a higher risk of your skill set stagnating.

There are good and bad developers in the public sector. Some will have come from the private sector, and some will have transferred in from other areas of the public sector. In my experience there is a conflict between those with private industry experience and usually more experience of good practice being over ruled by those more senior, with no idea of best practice and that can be incredibly frustrating. Perhaps its only true of my own experience but I think many in the public tech sector are less interested in doing new things, or lateral thinking, and prefer to repeat or alter existing projects. Very conservative in their approach to things.

All that said, its generally a nicer place to work, as you are treated more as person and less a number on a balance sheet. Which if you have kids, an illness, or older family or things in your life, outside of work, you have more options to balance life and work.

I think its the management style and ethos, that sets the tone of a working environment, public or private. The right people will make it irrelevant if its public or private. Probably the most exciting way to work as a developer/Tech is as a contractor.

Also there are people in the public sector who see it as a vocation and prefer working on projects that they feel give back to society rather than simply just working for money.

beauf

I think its extremely likely that the public sector pensions will be eroded. New recruits will have lesser pensions, and the better pensions will disappear as people retire.

Yes there is a funding issue. There is also a issue of how people will live if the pension is inadequate. The state might find itself with a lot of people who are unable to work, but are also now dependent on the state. The money the govt save on pension they might lose on social welfare payments or similar.

Which for IT people means public jobs are even less attractive. People will want to earn a lot of money upfront in their lives, so they can invest in things other than pensions that give them an income later in life. Which will make them prefer the private sector.

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srsly78

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I think older workers no, but newer state workers yes - there is a two-tier system now.

beauf

As above depends when you joined.

Is very likely more changes will happen. Looking at what's happened in NI and UK and then Europe might give us some insight into likely future changes here.

AndrewJRenko

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Yes, but your public sector pension is calculated to deduct the state pension first. Some low-paid staff pay pension deduction, but get nothing or very little above the state pension - a very poor outcome for them.

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Hotblack Desiato

Something the media never, ever mention when they talk about 'gold plated public sector pensions'.

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Hotblack Desiato

Over 12 grand a year (tax-free, and comes with a nice package of non-cash benefits too) isn't all that relevant? Lucky you.

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It wouldnt have been that relevant compared to the pension scheme I was in at the time, had I completed 40 years service and my salary had increased as was projected.

Now the reality turned out to be that were all made redundant, the pension scheme was wound up and I was brought back to reality with a bang (but a nice windfall as the scheme was overfunded).

But had things gone according to "The Pension that was Promised" - 12k would have been less than 10% of what was promised.

Hardly very relevant when the context was the % of a public service pension the COAP makes up.

For a good percentage of staff you could probably say it's worth c.50% of their final pension (assuming forty years contributions and an average final salary around 50k)

And single scheme members, eek. Not even on a deal nearly as sweet as that.

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Hotblack Desiato

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Yes there will be inflation in future, so the figures will LOOK bigger, but probably be worth the same (or less). The OAP will have increased too.

You'd need a crystal ball to predict future inflation, SW persion and public sector pay increases, and what those increased figures will actually be worth. But there's little reason to think that the position of public sector pensioners in future is going to improve, now, is there?

Answer is that it depends entirely on the individuals career.

Ok, small enough numbers retire with forty years full service and still CO, but it happens.

Plenty only get one or two promotions in the full career though.

Berserker

beauf wrote: »

There are good and bad developers in the public sector. Some will have come from the private sector, and some will have transferred in from other areas of the public sector. In my experience there is a conflict between those with private industry experience and usually more experience of good practice being over ruled by those more senior, with no idea of best practice and that can be incredibly frustrating.

I made the move from the private sector to the public sector last year and I totally agree with you. The organisation I work for hired a small number of developers from the private sector, most of whom are really good developers. The lead developers they work for, have all worked for the organisation for many years and they are completely out of touch with modern practices. I deal with these lead developers on a regular basis and most of them will openly admit that they have absolutely no interest in technology. I pointed out some design issues to one them, a person who transferred from a support role to a lead developer position last year and he told me that he "couldn't care less". He proceeded to tell me; someone who is more senior than him on the technical ladder; same in terms of grade, that "this is not a software house".

beauf

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Thats not true. Unless you pay a cashier more than a manager simply because they are there longer. Same with a lot of low paid jobs. You will get long service increments in the PS, but a low paid job is a low paid job.

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beauf

The context was final salary when it came to getting a pension. That's kinda different.