12 Seater Hire - America

Q_ueeny

Hi Guys ,

Has anyone any experience hiring a 10-12 seater in America? Is such a vehicle covered on a full Irish drives licence?

I have been before but only always hired cars or jeeps. This time around ,there is 10 of us travelling together so we need a larger vehicle.

I called Hertz at LAX and asked the question and the agent advised me without doubt , you can drive it on a full Irish but on some other car hire sites, it states you need to have a C1 licence. I have emailed them for a definite and to have it in writing but I would be grateful if anyone had any experience with this and maybe you could shed some light?

Thanks,
Q

alias no.9

Q_ueeny wrote: »

Hi Guys ,

Has anyone any experience hiring a 10-12 seater in America? Is such a vehicle covered on a full Irish drives licence?

I have been before but only always hired cars or jeeps. This time around ,there is 10 of us travelling together so we need a larger vehicle.

I called Hertz at LAX and asked the question and the agent advised me without doubt , you can drive it on a full Irish but on some other car hire sites, it states you need to have a C1 licence. I have emailed them for a definite and to have it in writing but I would be grateful if anyone had any experience with this and maybe you could shed some light?

Thanks,
Q

The number of passengers and almost certainly the weight of vehicle would disqualify you from driving it on an Irish license. Don't know if an equivalent US license would allow you drive it or if it does whether they'd allow you drive it on that basis.

Pkiernan

alias no.9 wrote: »

The number of passengers and almost certainly the weight of vehicle would disqualify you from driving it on an Irish license. Don't know if an equivalent US license would allow you drive it or if it does whether they'd allow you drive it on that basis.

Completely untrue.
OP you can rent no issue using your Irish B license.
You could rent 300hp Class A motorhome on your Irish licence if you want to.

dennyk

In CA you can legally drive any 2-axle vehicle with a GVWR of 26,000 pounds (~11.8 metric tons) or less for noncommercial purposes on any full foreign driving license. Any 12-passenger van would fall well under that limit. However, some car rental companies may have their own policies or license requirements for large vans that are stricter than the state's legal requirements. Just make sure you have your answer from Hertz in writing and you should be fine.

Fred Swanson

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dennyk

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

To clarify, a full Irish category B license would provide the same entitlement as a Basic Class C license on this chart. Again, though, rental companies can enforce different license requirements than legally required for certain vehicles if they want.

Marcusm

I don't see anything on those links which would permit a 12 seat vehicle to be driven on a B class licence from Ireland. Certainly, it is not something which California would be required to allow under the Convention.

dennyk

Marcusm wrote: »

I don't see anything on those links which would permit a 12 seat vehicle to be driven on a B class licence from Ireland.

Driving class restrictions in the US are much less strict than in Ireland. The standard car license, a Basic Class C license in California (which a full Irish Class B license would be treated as equivalent to) allows you to legally drive any 2-axle vehicle with a GVWR of 26,000 pounds (~11,800kg) or less, regardless of number of passengers, provided that it is for noncommercial purposes (e.g. you are not operating a transit service or otherwise being paid to transport passengers or goods). California does not have a separate license class for driving 8+ passenger noncommercial vehicles like Ireland does, so that restriction on your Irish license does not apply in California (or in most if not all of the other states in the US).

Edit: For those curious about US licenses, I got my first license in Florida many years ago. This is the entirety of the driving test required to get a full license there (not my video, but it seems it hasn't changed since the days of my exam...):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ01lADzm90

Note that the entire test is performed inside DMV property, not on public roads, so there is no other traffic. (Mine was in a parking lot with nothing but fake road markings, not even the grassy verges they have there...)

After passing that grueling evaluation of my ability to drive very slowly around an empty lot and park without hitting any cones, I received a license that entitles me to drive this on any public road in the US (yes, that was really my car back then). It also entitles me to drive this, this, and even this anywhere in the country. :eek:

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Marcusm

dennyk wrote: »

Driving class restrictions in the US are much less strict than in Ireland. The standard car license, a Basic Class C license in California (which a full Irish Class B license would be treated as equivalent to) allows you to legally drive any 2-axle vehicle with a GVWR of 26,000 pounds (~11,800kg) or less, regardless of number of passengers, provided that it is for noncommercial purposes (e.g. you are not operating a transit service or otherwise being paid to transport passengers or goods). California does not have a separate license class for driving 8+ passenger noncommercial vehicles like Ireland does, so that restriction on your Irish license does not apply in California (or in most if not all of the other states in the US).

Edit: For those curious about US licenses, I got my first license in Florida many years ago. This is the entirety of the driving test required to get a full license there (not my video, but it seems it hasn't changed since the days of my exam...):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ01lADzm90

Note that the entire test is performed inside DMV property, not on public roads, so there is no other traffic. (Mine was in a parking lot with nothing but fake road markings, not even the grassy verges they have there...)

After passing that grueling evaluation of my ability to drive very slowly around an empty lot and park without hitting any cones, I received a license that entitles me to drive this on any public road in the US (yes, that was really my car back then). It also entitles me to drive this, this, and even this anywhere in the country. :eek:

I think you are confusing matters by suggesting one type of Irish licence is equivalent to a certain type of US licence. The entitlement to drive in a foreign country on a home country licence derives from the Convention on Motor Traffic (Vienna or Geneva depending on which has been ratified). The Convention specifies a class D licence to drive more than an 8 seater. California domestic law will specify what is required to drive a vehicle which will be the holding of a California class C or whatever - there is no determining of equivalency between one licence type and another, the Convention grants rights to drive based on the type of foreign licence. If one does not have the required foreign licence, there is no entitlement to drive irrespective of whether a Californian resident who has passed a very simple test would be so entitled.

dennyk

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Absolutely they would; all you'd need is a valid foreign driver's license. (As far as the last one, not many places rent out fifth-wheels, and you'd likely have to supply your own tow vehicle, but it's legal if you can arrange it...)

Marcusm wrote: »

If one does not have the required foreign licence, there is no entitlement to drive irrespective of whether a Californian resident who has passed a very simple test would be so entitled.

The Convention requires its signatories to follow the specified classes at a minimum, e.g. if a driver from a signatory nation has a valid license and accompanying IDP with a Class D entitlement, other signatory nations can't prohibit that person from driving a noncommercial passenger vehicle with 8+ seats regardless of their own laws restricting such vehicles. The Convention doesn't prohibit signatory nations from enacting their own more lenient restrictions and entitlements on the types of vehicles that drivers with a particular license class are permitted to drive, however. California (or any other US state, or any other country) is free to say "if you have an IDP Class B entitlement you can drive any two-axle vehicle under 26,000lbs GWVR."

Now, if you have a California Basic Class C license and come to Ireland, Ireland can say "You can't drive anything except a 3500kg or less car here!" as per the terms of the Convention, regardless of the more lenient restrictions imposed by California for that license class.

Marcusm

dennyk wrote: »

Absolutely they would; all you'd need is a valid foreign driver's license. (As far as the last one, not many places rent out fifth-wheels, and you'd likely have to supply your own tow vehicle, but it's legal if you can arrange it...)



The Convention requires its signatories to follow the specified classes at a minimum, e.g. if a driver from a signatory nation has a valid license and accompanying IDP with a Class D entitlement, other signatory nations can't prohibit that person from driving a noncommercial passenger vehicle with 8+ seats regardless of their own laws restricting such vehicles. The Convention doesn't prohibit signatory nations from enacting their own more lenient restrictions and entitlements on the types of vehicles that drivers with a particular license class are permitted to drive, however. California (or any other US state, or any other country) is free to say "if you have an IDP Class B entitlement you can drive any two-axle vehicle under 26,000lbs GWVR."

Now, if you have a California Basic Class C license and come to Ireland, Ireland can say "You can't drive anything except a 3500kg or less car here!" as per the terms of the Convention, regardless of the more lenient restrictions imposed by California for that license class.

I absolutely agree that the Convention permissions can be relaxed by California but I'm willing to bet that you cannot find any formal, legal relaxation. It will simply never have been considered by the California legislature and a rental car company does not have the authority to make the law. A non US licence holder renting a 12 seat vehicle is likely to be on dubious grounds, most importantly from an insurance perspective. Most Irish drivers would have limited to no experience driving a vehicle that long and, despite wide freeways, would be very exposed to damage and accident claims. The OP should do the sensible thing and rent two vehicles.

dennyk

Marcusm wrote: »

...but I'm willing to bet that you cannot find any formal, legal relaxation. It will simply never have been considered by the California legislature and a rental car company does not have the authority to make the law.

California law basically just allows holders of valid foreign licenses to operate "motor vehicles" in the state, without any particular restrictions as to type of vehicle.

12502. (a) The following persons may operate a motor vehicle in this state without obtaining a driver’s license under this code:
(1) A nonresident over the age of 18 years having in his or her immediate possession a valid driver’s license issued by a foreign jurisdiction of which he or she is a resident, except as provided in Section 12505.

(Section 12505 deals with holders of foreign commercial licenses and restrictions on them, but doesn't apply to noncommercial license holders or vehicles.)

No police officer is going to know or care what restrictions a foreign driving license includes in their home country; they will go by California law, which allows valid license holders to drive 12+ passenger vans, large RVs, and box trucks on a noncommercial basis.

Marcusm wrote: »

A non US licence holder renting a 12 seat vehicle is likely to be on dubious grounds, most importantly from an insurance perspective. Most Irish drivers would have limited to no experience driving a vehicle that long and, despite wide freeways, would be very exposed to damage and accident claims. The OP should do the sensible thing and rent two vehicles.

Insurance will be up to the rental company's underwriter, but there would be no issue with covering a large vehicle rented in California due to the driver having an Irish license. Inexperienced drivers and their higher accident rates are already taken into account in the rental rates and/or insurance premium rates for rental vehicles, especially trucks, large vans, and RVs; many Americans who rent a 26-foot U-Haul or a 40-foot RV have never driven such a vehicle before either (I sure hadn't the first time I drove one...).

I definitely agree that the OP should consider carefully before renting a large vehicle if they lack experience driving one or do not feel comfortable doing so. However, there is nothing legally stopping them from renting and driving such a vehicle in California if they choose to.

InTheTrees

It might be worth doing some research into exactly which vehicle each company carries, its going to be Ford, Chevy or Dodge.

I would avoid Chevy or GMC.