'Dublin life is unsustainable' - meet the professionals who left for the Mid-West....

BoatMad

Silentcorner wrote: »

Sure we should all just pretend it never happened so...

This country needs to start planning for a population of well over 8 million...it needs to start looking at other regional cities to be able to take that growth...until we understand the mistakes of the past we are doomed to repeat them...you cannot expect people to move to cities for opportunity and then expect them to spend their lives sitting in gridlock!

I agree, personally I believe planners should simply set design and style guides ( rules, EPA requiremts etc etc ) and designate particular space for housing , within that area and consistent with the design guides and rules, house builders should be free to build as they wish. Spanish style predevelopment of infrastructure could then take place as planners know exactly where development will occur

One offs should be entirely restricted to people with immediate local requirements , prioriies given to developing rural villages , small towns etc to enhance the ability for these towns to service their immediate community as well as density control for urban areas, it would remove land speculation as well , farmers daughters can quite happily live with non farming husbands within the confines of a local village etc

its the individual secret nature of planning thats leads to corruption

I fully agree it should change, but I dont expect it to

MichaelR

If you want to quash one off housing, does this mean non-farmers would have to be stuck in tiny gardens of a housing estate except if they can afford a millionaire mansion in Killiney? (I actually am in a housing estate,but much of the decision was about affordability).

And high density was tried and failed in Dublin, so things like this must be approached really carefully.

BoatMad

MichaelR wrote: »

If you want to quash one off housing, does this mean non-farmers would have to be stuck in tiny gardens of a housing estate except if they can afford a millionaire mansion in Killiney? (I actually am in a housing estate,but much of the decision was about affordability).

And high density was tried and failed in Dublin, so things like this must be approached really carefully.

there is no justification for one off houses that then require expensive services to be provided

as to your garden size I'm sure a local village setting can easily provide a suitable sized garden

its not one or the other you know , different density urban environments can exist to satify those that require say a larger garden

High density has never been tried properly in Dublin , Ballymum was a failure for lots of reasons most of which relate to the environment around the flats rather then the flats themselves ( which are actually quite large )

iguana

Tefral wrote: »

I grew up in Limerick, School in Limerick, College in Limerick.

Got sick of Limerick and moved to Dublin for 7 years. Moved to London for a year with work. Quit my job and moved back to Limerick, best decision I ever made.

Similar here. I left Limerick when I was 23, spent 3 years in Dublin, 5 in London, another 3 in Dublin and a brief stay in Swansea. I never thought I'd move back to Limerick but when my son was a few months old I came back for 6 months and after a few weeks knew I was back for good. Especially as the decent deposit we had for a very modest house in a so-so neighbourhood the back arse of Dublin bought a great detached house in a lovely spot walking distance from town.

But beyond that, my social life improved instantly. I had lots of friends in Dublin and obviously there are more social options on offer. But it's such a pita to get around and you're so wrecked from the week of work and commuting that actually going to events or amenities feels like too much hassle. Here everything is easy to get to and anything from a two minute walk to a 10 minute drive gets you 100s of leisure options. If you spend an hour in the car you actually end up somewhere completely different, ie, Birr, Craggaunowen, Ardnacrusha, Lahinch, etc whereas in Dublin, an hour in the car often means still being in Dublin traffic. Here it's easy to plan an outing with friends with an hours notice, in Dublin it took serious planning. My son's life consists of 4 or 5 great "adventures" a week in between lots of play in his big garden and bigger bedroom than he'd have had in Dublin. At least during the summer when he isn't at forest school - a schooling option he wouldn't have had in Dublin. Our lifestyle is a mesh of chilling out interspersed with super fun. And the reduced living costs mean that fantasy holidays like Legoland/Disneyland/"North Pole" are realistic future plans not something we'd struggle to afford if we had a Dublin mortgage. (And all of that is not to mention the constant presence of extended family in our lives - because that's a personal bonus that's only an option for people with family here.) Our life here could honestly be summed up in one word, idyllic, and while I know that living in Limerick doesn't automatically gift such a life to everyone, it was moving here that makes this life possible for us.

zulutango

I think you've really hit the nail on the head there, Iguana. You've managed it far better than the article did.

I have a similar 'idyllic' life here, and I can say that having lived in Dublin, Cork, the UK, mainland Europe and South Africa. I've had great times in all those places but life in Limerick is best, all things considered. It's very much based on the social life and the proximity to anything I need. The social life is great not because I have lots of friends here, but because I've a few very good ones and I get to meet up with them very regularly and not much planning is ever required. We live in or within easy walking or cycling distance of the centre and we bump into each other in the streets and around town. I can text a friend and be having a pint with him or her 10 or 15 minutes later. Any particular evening could involve meeting a few different people and doing some active things and maybe attending an event also. There's just so much more time. When I lived in Dublin I had lots of friends and family, but it was quite often an ordeal getting to see and do things with them, or even to see and do anything. I lived near the city centre (in Dublin terms, but still about 15 mins on the bike from College Green) but generally wouldn't be home from work until 7pm. I'd be tired because I'd have been up that morning at around 6.45am (compared to 8.30am in Limerick).

There's a lot more on in Dublin, but it's a case of diminishing returns. It's great to have choice (of people, concerts, pubs, restaurants, galleries, sports activities) but it's impossible to do all the things we'd like to do. The increased choice that bigger cities like Dublin offer isn't actually a huge advantage over a city that has enough people, pubs, restuarants, events, etc. And the increased choice certainly doesn't make up for the much higher cost of living and stress of life in Dublin. And if there is something I really want to see in Dublin I can hop on a bus five minutes from my home (that leaves every hour of day and only costs a tenner) and be in the heart of Dublin in 2 hours and 45 minutes.

I recongnise that everybody's life in Limerick isn't as idyllic as mine or Iguana's above. No doubt some are reading this and thinking what planet are we on. I also think it's important to acknowledge that there are many problems that we need to solve. Many people here see Goochy's comments earlier as trolling, but we shouldn't be defensive. His perception is a legitimate one, which, whether biased or skewed or otherwise, is held by a great many people in Ireland and in Limerick too. It's definitely not a perfect life for everybody here and I count myself priveleged, and it's not the prettiest of places either (although we have many lovely spots and aren't actually too bad considering most Irish towns and cities are nothing to write home about). I'm optimistic though, and I strongly believe it could be a great city for everybody and the solutions aren't as difficult as we sometimes make out. If I get dismayed sometimes, it's because we have a tendency to make very backward decisions and effectively throw obstacles in our way to improving things.

Silentcorner

I have to agree with much of what the last two posters have outlined...

It is pointless claiming the places doesn't have its challenges...but that applies to all Irish cities...

I think Goochy and the many posters like him/her are not trolling at all...we have to recognise that there are many Irish people who see/perceive Limerick the same way...many of them post here all the time....

But we must also recognise that foreign tourists to the city do not seem to have the same perception issues that Irish people seem to have...I often put it down to the influence of Irish media but it goes a bit deeper than that...Belfast never suffered from an image problem despite its much more serious issues which were well documented in Irish media...

I can't think any other city with such polarised perceptions...

grenache

John_Mc wrote: »

Moved down to Limerick after 10 years in Dublin in February and it's ok, but not what that article is promising. Yes the commute is shorter every day, but so are the job opportunities. I did get one fairly easily when we moved down but there's less competition between employers so salaries are substantially lower.

Rent is a bit lower but it's not proportionate to the lower salaries and everything else besides rent costs the same so you're not better off.

Having done the move we're actually considering moving back up there, and the only thing stopping us is the fact that we would have family in Limerick to support us if we have children.

Rent is "a bit lower"?! What part of Limerick are you living in? Rent is substantially lower. There's no comparison. We're paying €1350 per month for a five bed semi in Dooradoyle, three of the rooms are ensuite. The same house in an equivalent area of Dublin would cost comfortably over €2000.

"Everything else besides rent costs the same is" is another untruth. The price of a pint and the cost of childcare are just two examples of things that are much cheaper in Limerick, relatively speaking.

grenache

Augeo wrote: »

I'm sorry? What did I say to bring that comment about?

Anyway, I was a rep years ago. Covering Munster, had 5 or 6 key accounts in Limerick. Spent quite a bit of my week there.
Wages are quite frankly brutal compared to Cork or Dublin, that's the primary reason. Secondary reason would be the actual city is tiny and much of it is rundown.

How is saying "I wouldn't consider moving there" a sweeping statement? Would you move to Dublin? Cork? Belfast? If no do you think the natives would get offended? NOPE

Limerick City centre is much the same size as Cork City Centre.

If we're talking about run down areas, most of the north side of Cork City is a ghetto.

grenache

pigtown wrote: »

I wouldn't bank on that, I have raised the same concerns but the only argument in favour was the safety and time improvements.

Ah yeah sure, save a few lives every year. Hardly worth it, is it :rolleyes:

zulutango

Silentcorner wrote: »

I have to agree with much of what the last two posters have outlined...

It is pointless claiming the places doesn't have its challenges...but that applies to all Irish cities...

I think Goochy and the many posters like him/her are not trolling at all...we have to recognise that there are many Irish people who see/perceive Limerick the same way...many of them post here all the time....

But we must also recognise that foreign tourists to the city do not seem to have the same perception issues that Irish people seem to have...I often put it down to the influence of Irish media but it goes a bit deeper than that...Belfast never suffered from an image problem despite its much more serious issues which were well documented in Irish media...

I can't think any other city with such polarised perceptions...

I agree that we are unfairly treated and the perceptions that outsiders have of us is incredibly off. We're also our own worst enemies sometimes. Our cash strapped local media know that pushing the negative narrative serves their bottom line. It seems that getting articles to go viral is what they are all about. More clicks equates to more advertising revenue. Why put 'Limerick' in every headline on the online version? I mean, if it's on the Limerick Leader we can be fairly sure the content is about a local issue.

rebs23

grenache wrote: »

Augeo wrote: »

I'm sorry? What did I say to bring that comment about?

Anyway, I was a rep years ago. Covering Munster, had 5 or 6 key accounts in Limerick. Spent quite a bit of my week there.
Wages are quite frankly brutal compared to Cork or Dublin, that's the primary reason. Secondary reason would be the actual city is tiny and much of it is rundown.

How is saying "I wouldn't consider moving there" a sweeping statement? Would you move to Dublin? Cork? Belfast? If no do you think the natives would get offended? NOPE

Limerick City centre is much the same size as Cork City Centre.

If we're talking about run down areas, most of the north side of Cork City is a ghetto.

Now where have we heard criticism before about generalisations about an area?
Sundays Well, Montenottee, Tivoli, St.Lukes, most of Mayfield, Ballyvolane and the the outer suburbs of the north side of the City are awful ghetto's alright😂
Delusion, you should look it up.
The real reason people are reluctant to move to smaller jobs markets is because of a lack of choices in their careers should anything go wrong.
Personally I left Limerick for that reason and I know of friends with job offers in Limerick that would not take them up for the same reason.

John_Mc

grenache wrote: »

Rent is "a bit lower"?! What part of Limerick are you living in? Rent is substantially lower. There's no comparison. We're paying €1350 per month for a five bed semi in Dooradoyle, three of the rooms are ensuite. The same house in an equivalent area of Dublin would cost comfortably over €2000.

"Everything else besides rent costs the same is" is another untruth. The price of a pint and the cost of childcare are just two examples of things that are much cheaper in Limerick, relatively speaking.

I'm living on the Ennis road and paying €1400. In Dublin, for a smaller house I was paying €1700. The gulf isn't that wide though.

As for everything else costing the same, I meant holidays, cars, clothes, utilities etc. Not the price of a pint :rolleyes:

zulutango

John_Mc wrote: »

I'm living on the Ennis road and paying €1400. In Dublin, for a smaller house I was paying €1700. The gulf isn't that wide though.

As for everything else costing the same, I meant holidays, cars, clothes, utilities etc. Not the price of a pint :rolleyes:

Where in Dublin was that house?

John_Mc

zulutango wrote: »

Where in Dublin was that house?

Donnybrook, Dublin 4. It did go up in price when we left the house though.

zulutango

Great value for that part of Dublin alright. A friend of mine lets a 1.5 bedroom place in Harold's Cross for €2k p.m.. You wouldn't swing a cat in it.

keane2097

Yeah you wouldn't get something you'd be willing to put a dog into for 1700p/m in Donneybrook now I suspect.

The place we are renting down here is 950p/m which I suspect is below market rate but anything any way similar in Dublin at the moment is going for ~1800 :eek:

seachto7

rebs23 wrote: »

The real reason people are reluctant to move to smaller jobs markets is because of a lack of choices in their careers should anything go wrong.
Personally I left Limerick for that reason and I know of friends with job offers in Limerick that would not take them up for the same reason.

Yup, I can't find a job for love nor money in Limerick.

grenache

John_Mc wrote: »

I'm living on the Ennis road and paying €1400. In Dublin, for a smaller house I was paying €1700. The gulf isn't that wide though.

As for everything else costing the same, I meant holidays, cars, clothes, utilities etc. Not the price of a pint :rolleyes:

Rent on the Ennis Rd is probably the dearest in Limerick, yet it's still cheaper than a smaller house in Dublin 4. That says a lot.
Holidays will be the same price no matter where you depart from, hardly relevant when comparing two different places. The price of drink/food is definitely cheaper in Limerick.

John_Mc

grenache wrote: »

Rent on the Ennis Rd is probably the dearest in Limerick, yet it's still cheaper than a smaller house in Dublin 4. That says a lot.
Holidays will be the same price no matter where you depart from, hardly relevant when comparing two different places. The price of drink/food is definitely cheaper in Limerick.

I was commenting on the fact that the lower salaries in Limerick are not compensated by the lower rents/mortgages. It's completely relevant when you're talking about salaries and disposable income.

zulutango

Are the salaries lower in Limerick though? I'm paid more than I was paid when I lived in Dublin (different companies). My current employer pays the exact same to its Dublin and Limerick staff. Any differences are to do with qualifications and experience not office location.

John_Mc

zulutango wrote: »

Are the salaries lower in Limerick though? I'm paid more than I was paid when I lived in Dublin (different companies). My current employer pays the exact same to its Dublin and Limerick staff. Any differences are to do with qualifications and experience not office location.

10-15k difference with permanent positions. I am a self-employed contractor though and there was literally one contract in Limerick, as opposed to Dublin where I'd have my pick of at least 10-20, so my daily rate is far lower. Maybe it's just my industry but I don't think it is

mdmix

sigmar recruitment salary guides are in the link attached. it offers a comparison of dublin vs rest of ireland wages. i had a quick look at the IT guide and certain categories aside, its pretty even when you consider the cost of living. for the most part dublin is slightly ahead, but not by much and not in every category, some senior SW developers can get paid more outside dublin!

http://www.sigmarrecruitment.com/jobseekers/salary-guide/

saw_doctor

limerick is still a redicolously cheap city to rent and especially buy , its cheaper than any town with a population over seven thousand in meath , kildare , wicklow , its still 40% cheaper to buy a house in limerick than galway , they are identical in size , were i a public sector worker , i cant think of a better place in the country to live than limerick city

saw_doctor

nowhere will compare favourable to dublin but compared to cork or galway , limerick is for nothing and the employment prospects do not make up the difference to justify the price difference

zulutango

saw_doctor wrote: »

nowhere will compare favourable to dublin but compared to cork or galway , limerick is for nothing and the employment prospects do not make up the difference to justify the price difference

Not for everybody, but for many it will make sense to live here (myself included).

Tefral

seachto7 wrote: »

Yup, I can't find a job for love nor money in Limerick.

Theres loads of Jobs.

What area are you specifically looking in? My wife took on about 5 staff this summer in Easons.

seachto7

Tefral wrote: »

Theres loads of Jobs.

What area are you specifically looking in? My wife took on about 5 staff this summer in Easons.

Digital roles

John_Mc

Tefral wrote: »

Theres loads of Jobs.

What area are you specifically looking in? My wife took on about 5 staff this summer in Easons.

Anecdotes about 5 minimum wage jobs hardly proves that there's loads of highly skilled and highly paid jobs in Limerick. That's what Limerick needs - people with money and they'll only move here if there plenty of good jobs available.

Tefral

John_Mc wrote: »

Anecdotes about 5 minimum wage jobs hardly proves that there's loads of highly skilled and highly paid jobs in Limerick..

But the poster didnt specify. There are lots of minimum wage jobs sure.

And I fully agree that there isnt enough higher paid jobs here yet.

Id wonder though, I know both Hiring Managers in Northern Trust and Regeneron, they have jobs in the 50k plus range and they cant find anyone to fill them.

seachto7

I have read about "100 of jobs created for X" and can't find them when I go online. No tonly in Limerick, but in other places too.