Season 7 Episode 2 "Stormborn" - "Non book readers"

SimonTemplar

The problem I have with Theon as a character is that he killed two young boys a few seasons ago just to convince people he killed the Stark boys. I really can't forgive him for such a callous act so he gets little sympathy from me. Kinda wish he had been killed in tonight's attack to be honest because his scenes don't interest me.

Those sand sisters look like they've wondered in from a bad episode of Xena. Horrible miscalculation by the writers last season. Glad to see them gone.

Danny has gone from a person who you could root for, to someone who can be quite unpleasant and almost dictatorial. I'm sure it is intentional which certainly makes you wonder what her arc will be this season.

With Davos on his way to Dragonstone with Jon, he is on course to be reunited with Melisandre which I'm sure will be a heated conversation

I hope they manage to find out what to do with Arya. She's been wandering around Westeros for two episodes now. They need to involve her more in the main plot.

emo72

i wonder what those fireball thingys in the opening credits are hinting at. also that other big round thingy that zooms in and out. they look like technologically advanced things.

SeanJ09

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I don't know. He had a tough choice. He couldn't save Yara. The minute he attacked Euron, he'd slit her throat and start on Theon. Unlikely Theon could beat him in a fight, so best choice was to do what he did. At least Yara will be kept as a hostage. For the moment.

Did the end of the episode not show Yara hung by the throat along with Ellaria sand nailed below her? Euron would have no reason in keeping her alive.

lazybones32

Daeny will have to become more ruthless. Fighting a war will require it. Varys is my fav character and i didn't like her giving him lip.
Littlefinger couldn't have asked for a better position: sansa in power with jon absent for a time. Stir it up...

PressRun

Arghus wrote: »

Some significant cross-bowing I suppose, but I kind of view their chances with that implement as similar to McGregor landing a potential Superman punch on Floyd Mayweather's head: yeah it could happen, but they'd have to get awfully lucky.

I think that probably will work on one of the dragons, if only for the shock value.

SeanJ09 wrote: »

Did the end of the episode not show Yara hung by the throat along with Ellaria sand nailed below her? Euron would have no reason in keeping her alive.

Two of the sand snakes are dead at the end, killed with their own weapons. Yara and Ellaria are I think the "gifts" for Cersei.

CastorTroy

munster87 wrote: »

Dickon. Heh

I'm guessing he'll have a bigger role since it's a known actor (Black Sails)


Wonder what Sansa is going to do while Jon's away. And will Arya stop her or maybe meet Jon on his way?
Frankly I want Jon, Arya, Dany and Tyrion together.

lazybones32

SeanJ09 wrote: »

Did the end of the episode not show Yara hung by the throat along with Ellaria sand nailed below her? Euron would have no reason in keeping her alive.

Euron led her away before the shot changed. She had a tear running down her cheek. He has reason to keep her alive: giving cersei a general of the enemy's army is a bonus gift.

seligehgit

SeanJ09 wrote: »

Did the end of the episode not show Yara hung by the throat along with Ellaria sand nailed below her? Euron would have no reason in keeping her alive.

That's what I thought.

major bill

seligehgit wrote: »

That's what I thought.

I think it was the two sand snake girls that Euron killed

lbj666

This was the euron I had heard about , proper nutjob. I only wish they gave him some brief appearance in earlier seasons . His story arc is about 20 mins of the whole show so far.

SimonTemplar

I don't mean to be so harsh because I still think it's fantastic TV but, good God, Littlefinger has become a joke of a character. "I love your sister like I loved your mother". Jesus Christ!!

SimonTemplar

lbj666 wrote: »

This was the euron I had heard about , proper nutjob. I only wish they gave him some brief appearance in earlier seasons . His story arc is about 20 mins of the whole show so far.

I agree. Reminds me of the neo nazis from the last season of Breaking Bad. A ready made villian brought in late in the series to serve a particular purpose.

Arghus

SimonTemplar wrote: »

The problem I have with Theon as a character is that he killed two young boys a few seasons ago just to convince people he killed the Stark boys. I really can't forgive him for such a callous act so he gets little sympathy from me. Kinda wish he had been killed in tonight's attack to be honest because his scenes don't interest me.

But he paid for all that with his dick.

His dick.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

J. Marston wrote: »

Pretty sure it was Nym, hung with her whip.

I'd say Yara and Ellaria are Cersei's gifts.

When Euron spoke about a gift to Cersei, I was expecting Tyrion to be captured again, somehow.

jonon9 wrote: »

Found this episode fast paced and I liked it. Was It me or was Dany a bit of a c**t. Nice to see Arya returning to Winterfell

I was half expecting the direwolf to devour Arya, it's episode 2 and there has been very few WTF moments so far imo. I really want Arya riding into battle on the back of that direwolf with an army of wolves at her back.

I think Asha is still a valuable hostage. Her capture may keep the remainder of her army at bay (if any exist). She may also be worth quite a bit in ransom, or just another tool for Euron to use. I doubt she's dead, as her character is too important to kill off screen.

I don't like or dislike Euron yet as his character hasn't had much airtime/development.

expectationlost

where did the iron lady's uncle get the ships from I thought she had stolen their best ships?

Loafing Oaf

What exactly was Greyworm thrusting into Missandei? Did the power of love cause his 'worm' to grow back?:p

P.S. is Arya launching her very own Paw Patrol?

Cianos

I worry whether this will be the worst season yet, a few warning signs already, maybe I'm misinterpreting though.

The Ed Sheeran scene in the previous episode just seems to be total filler (for the sake of getting Ed Sheeran on the cast??) - no follow up, Arya's story continues on irrespective of that very disruptive scene - so what was the point?

I actually enjoyed the Greyworm and Missandei scene. Sure the dialogue was a bit cheesy but it was a good way to show a potential weakening of Danny's army.

The topknot and dickon lines summarise a playing loose with the script in a way that's miles apart from the elegance and tightness of the earlier seasons.

The end battle scene for me just sucked. The Iron Islanders are supposed to be some of the best seamen in the world, yet they didn't spot an attacking armada until it was literally right on top of them? The sequence of the uncle dropping down and squashing someone, who you weren't sure if it was a major character or not, was jumping the shark for me. The sequences were disjointed, random characters popping in out of nowhere to just serve the story.

mzungu

expectationlost wrote: »

where did the iron lady's uncle get the ships from I thought she had stolen their best ships?

He ordered new ones to be built when he realised they had absconded with the fleet.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Can anyone explain to me just how Euron knew where Elaria was? I'm assuming I'm missing something here. Surely she was the gift that he was after, so shouldn't he have been searching in Dorne? And how did he manage to come across their ship in the middle of the ocean?

J. Marston

Cianos wrote: »

I worry whether this will be the worst season yet, a few warning signs already, maybe I'm misinterpreting though.

The Ed Sheeran scene in the previous episode just seems to be total filler (for the sake of getting Ed Sheeran on the cast??) - no follow up, Arya's story continues on irrespective of that very disruptive scene - so what was the point?

I actually enjoyed the Greyworm and Missandei scene. Sure the dialogue was a bit cheesy but it was a good way to show a potential weakening of Danny's army.

The topknot and dickon lines summarise a playing loose with the script in a way that's miles apart from the elegance and tightness of the earlier seasons.

The end battle scene for me just sucked. The Iron Islanders are supposed to be some of the best seamen in the world, yet they didn't spot an attacking armada until it was literally right on top of them? The sequence of the uncle dropping down and squashing someone, who you weren't sure if it was a major character or not, was jumping the shark for me. The sequences were disjointed, random characters popping in out of nowhere to just serve the story.

It's your fault that all you could see Sheeran's ginger head. He was a pointless distraction but the scene was clearly about humanising the enemy for Arya. She may have seen Lannister grunts at the beginning but after talking to them realises they're just men with families who are sick of war.

The topknot and Dickon lines? What was wrong with them? The topknot line was typical sour Sandor. Dickon, a quick quip. When you say the elegance of earlier seasons do you mean stuff like Tyrion talking about **** into stew?

If you think Euron killing a nameless soldier was jumping the shark then your "jumping the shark" standards are very strange.

I think some people like to extreme nit-pick to look clever. But maybe I'm just a fanboy.

J. Marston

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

Can anyone explain to me just how Euron knew where Elaria was? I'm assuming I'm missing something here. Surely she was the gift that he was after, so shouldn't he have been searching in Dorne? And how did he manage to come across their ship in the middle of the ocean?

http://i.imgur.com/TuWKsTj.jpg

It's called the Narrow Sea for a reason! Ellaria and Yara leaving Dragonstone to head down to Dorne. Euron leaving King's Landing likely heading down to Dorne too. Two huge fleets running into each other was pretty likely.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

J. Marston wrote: »

http://i.imgur.com/TuWKsTj.jpg

It's called the Narrow Sea for a reason! Ellaria and Yara leaving Dragonstone to head down to Dorne. Euron leaving King's Landing likely heading down to Dorne too. Two huge fleets running into each other was pretty likely.

1. Were they with the fleet? I thought they were returning to Dorne to get the army. And even still, how did no one see a massive fleet sailing towards them?
2. It's still an ocean. At night. And they didn't 'run' into each other, it was clearly a well coordinated attack from Euron.
3. Euron just happened to run into Elaria on the exact day he promised Cersei a gift and happened to be sailing from KL whilst Elaria just happened to be on the ship Euron attacks?

I don't know if I'm missing something more obvious, and I know it's hardly the biggest of plot holes, but it's just annoying me because it's like the stupid 'coincidences' you'd see in shıtty action films.

J. Marston

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

1. Were they with the fleet? I thought they were returning to Dorne to get the army. And even still, how did no one see a massive fleet sailing towards them?
2. It's still an ocean. At night. And they didn't 'run' into each other, it was clearly a well coordinated attack from Euron.
3. Euron just happened to run into Elaria on the exact day he promised Cersei a gift and happened to be sailing from KL whilst Elaria just happened to be on the ship Euron attacks?

I don't know if I'm missing something more obvious, and I know it's hardly the biggest of plot holes, but it's just annoying me because it's like the stupid 'coincidences' you'd see in shıtty action films.

Not sure if Yara had the entire fleet. Still, looks like a lot of ships at the beginning...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfKmE9T_jbs

The rest? I dunno, Euron is a legendary pirate so maybe experience? Was it the same day? Time can be convoluted in Westeros.

FrostyJack

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

1. Were they with the fleet? I thought they were returning to Dorne to get the army. And even still, how did no one see a massive fleet sailing towards them?
2. It's still an ocean. At night. And they didn't 'run' into each other, it was clearly a well coordinated attack from Euron.
3. Euron just happened to run into Elaria on the exact day he promised Cersei a gift and happened to be sailing from KL whilst Elaria just happened to be on the ship Euron attacks?

I don't know if I'm missing something more obvious, and I know it's hardly the biggest of plot holes, but it's just annoying me because it's like the stupid 'coincidences' you'd see in shıtty action films.

1. Were who with the fleet? Greyjoys with the rest of Dany's fleet? They were going to pick up an army so most ships would just be manned, not have an army already on board most ships I assume. It was at night, it is dark at night, if there were no lights on the ships how would they see them. These things happened up to modern maritime battles so how is it a leap of faith in a place where no tech exists?

2. How can you argue both points that they can't see the attackers but the attackers couldn't see them?? Maybe there were traitors on board signalling the enemy fleet, they could have gotten a glimpse by day and knew where they were heading so could set up an ambush. edit : You can see in clip above the Greyjoys had lights on nearly every ship, easy to spot.

3. The exact day? You are aware each episode isn't like 24. Months could have passed since he said that to Cersei . You saw Sam sent the raven and it only arrived to Jon after Dany's one. He went specifically for her, so how is it a coincidence he found her? Spies with the Greyjoy's could have told him their every move. Arya meeting Neymeria and Hotpie is more of a stupid coincidence than that. As for attacking the exact ship, granted it involved some suspension of belief, the alternative was they hit another ship and spend 20 minutes getting to the scene, budget and time would have been a constraint.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

FrostyJack wrote: »

1. Were who with the fleet? Greyjoys with the rest of Dany's fleet? They were going to pick up an army so most ships would just be manned, not have an army already on board most ships I assume. It was at night, it is dark at night, if there were no lights on the ships how would they see them. These things happened up to modern maritime battles so how is it a leap of faith in a place where no tech exists?

2. How can you argue both points that they can't see the attackers but the attackers couldn't see them?? Maybe there were traitors on board signalling the enemy fleet, they could have gotten a glimpse by day and knew where they were heading so could set up an ambush. edit : You can see in clip above the Greyjoys had lights on nearly every ship, easy to spot.

3. The exact day? You are aware each episode isn't like 24. Months could have passed since he said that to Cersei . You saw Sam sent the raven and it only arrived to Jon after Dany's one. He went specifically for her, so how is it a coincidence he found her? Spies with the Greyjoy's could have told him their every move. Arya meeting Neymeria and Hotpie is more of a stupid coincidence than that. As for attacking the exact ship, granted it involved some suspension of belief, the alternative was they hit another ship and spend 20 minutes getting to the scene, budget and time would have been a constraint.

1. Were Elaria and Yara with a fleet? I got the impression that they weren't. Are the unsullied not taking Dany's fleet?
And iirc Euron first attacked the ship with fire, so there had to have been light from his ships. His many, many ships.

2. Yes, how did Euron stumble directly onto Yara's ship without being seen by anyone on her ship?

3. You know well I don't actually mean the exact day and there's no need to take that condescending tone.

Anyway, you seem more intent or ridiculing my question rather than answering it, and to be frank, the answers you did give were nothing more than wild speculation.

And I'm not looking for a big debate about it, I was more wondering had I missed anything obvious that led Euron to Yara and Elaria's ship. How he even knew Elaria wasn't in Dorne, never mind her exact location, doesn't make sense, and is out of character for the show.

Anyway, any answers that shed light on my question(s) would be most appreciated. I know it's not a big issue and I do realise most people won't really care, so let's not derail the thread. I won't be posting again on the topic.

FrostyJack

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

1. Were Elaria and Yara with a fleet? I got the impression that they weren't. Are the unsullied not taking Dany's fleet?
And iirc Euron first attacked the ship with fire, so there had to have been light from his ships. His many, many ships.

2. Yes, how did Euron stumble directly onto Yara's ship without being seen by anyone on her ship?

3. You know well I don't actually mean the exact day and there's no need to take that condescending tone.

Anyway, you seem more intent or ridiculing my question rather than answering it, and to be frank, the answers you did give were nothing more than wild speculation.

And I'm not looking for a big debate about it, I was more wondering had I missed anything obvious that led Euron to Yara and Elaria's ship. How he even knew Elaria wasn't in Dorne, never mind her exact location, doesn't make sense, and is out of character for the show.

Anyway, any answers that shed light on my question(s) would be most appreciated. I know it's not a big issue and I do realise most people won't really care, so let's not derail the thread. I won't be posting again on the topic.

1. Dany spells out what is happening when they are in Dragonstone, i.e the Unsullied and Dothraki are going to Casterly Rock and Yara is going to Dorne to pick up the Dornish army to seige Kings Landing. There are 2 Fleets, Greyjoys and the one Dany took from the Slavers.

2. Already explained twice, yet you keep using the word "stumbled" for some reason.

3. You didn't mean the exact day but that is what you said, I should have guessed you meant month, my bad.

The answers were not wild speculation, they were the logical answers. The show has never spelled out everything for the viewers, I don't know why you demand it this time. Qyburn has control of all of Varys little birds in Kings Landing, it isn't a great leap he has some in Dorne too, so could have known about where everyone was going.

Optimalprimerib

Euron is stealing the show for me. An apt replacement for joffrey and Ramsey as the new antagonist.

I thought there was far too much posturing at the start of the episode again, but at least now, with that attack stuff will have to happen.

I'm not sure which grossed me out more, the skin peeling scene or the sex scene.

All in all a great episode, delighted and surprised it had such an action heavy ending so soon in. No reason why not, it is a shorter season with what now must be an unlimited budget.

pickarooney

Joel Substantial Year wrote: »

I think Asha is still a valuable hostage.

.

Well, looks like we got ourselves a READER!

Vojera

Joel Substantial Year wrote: »

I doubt she's dead, as her character is too important to kill off screen.

CMOTDibbler

1pink2stink wrote: »

I don't know what ye are on about.

Judging by your other posts, I'm not surprised.

BetsyEllen

For me, I didn't find the battle scene enjoyable at all.
I didn't feel like I was watching GoT and instead an action packed, over the top Hollywood movie.
It seemed silly in places.

Overall though a very good episode.

I found it very hard to watch Jorah being 'cured' by Sam...bleurgh

I liked the scene with Dany confronting Varys or whatever his name is; I think that his loyalty needed to be questioned and she'd be silly to not doubt how trustworthy he is.

CMOTDibbler

BetsyEllen wrote: »

I found it very hard to watch Jorah being 'cured' by Sam...bleurgh

I'd say Jorah liked it even less.

As a 'cure', it leaves a lot to be desired. Painstaking work by the 'surgeon' and excruciating pain for the patient. The dangers of some of that crap getting on you would have you weak at the knees. A slip of the scalpel and you might hole one of your gloves. :eek:

BetsyEllen wrote: »

I liked the scene with Dany confronting Varys or whatever his name is; I think that his loyalty needed to be questioned and she'd be silly to not doubt how trustworthy he is.

I thought that was a great scene too. Varys tried to fob her off a few times, but she was having none of it. She kept pushing him until he admitted his loyalties. And then making that work for her. Good queening imo.

Tell me how

BetsyEllen wrote:

I liked the scene with Dany confronting Varys or whatever his name is; I think that his loyalty needed to be questioned and she'd be silly to not doubt how trustworthy he is.

I think Varys played that wonderfully and particularly when she threatened burning him if he betrayed her. I felt his look said "I've been playing this game a lot longer than you lady".

He was in no way cowed by her.

seamus

Brendan Filone wrote: »

Euro is stealing the show so far this season:
He's a top 5 character now just for killing off the Sand Snakes, worst part of the entire series by a country mile.

I don't know, the whole bit with the ramp was too Pirates of the Caribbean for me, too unrealistic.

I like the portrayal of the character, but there was something a bit too cartoon villain about him in this episode. Being first into the attack, still managing to defeat a number of highly skilled enemies despite taking numerous hits, etc.

On the latter part, I expect we'll see him in trouble by the time he gets back to Cersei. The Dornish specialise in poisons, so some of those knives and spear hits may have been poisoned. Even if they don't, he's been hit a number of times and doesn't exactly have a pharmacy onboard.

PressRun wrote: »

I just don't understand Jamie as a character anymore.
...
That character has totally lost its way, imo.

IMO, that's actually the point.

The loss of his hand left Jamie feeling weak and vulnerable. And it still does. The character comes across as tired and checked out, and I think that's the point; he no longer wants to be involved in this craziness, but doesn't really have a choice. And without his hand he doesn't have the confidence to go anything alone.

His sister is crazy and over confident, they have few if any allies and no supplies. Jamie sees their case as a hopeless one and has more-or-less given up.

I'm still not sure what to make of the capture of Yara. I have a feeling that they were just bringing the Sands south, rather than collecting an army. The capture of Ellaria though will still drive the Dornish army to move on Kings Landing, maybe just a bit slower than before.

I get the feeling, as happened in Meereen, Dany's plans to do things with the minimal amount of bloodshed will be scuppered, and she'll end up just destroying King's Landing with the dragons. But not before she loses one to Cersei's crossbow.

StringerBell

Even if they don't have poison on their blades for a change it still bothered me how completely unaffected he was by the strikes, that and the initial boarding just took me out of my little bubble while watching, felt off in terms of what the show has always been about.

Brief_Lives

Here is the last scene, the sea battle, again...

Alanhooly

seamus wrote:

I don't know, the whole bit with the ramp was too Pirates of the Caribbean for me, too unrealistic.

Unrealistic? Haha.

How have you got through 7 seasons of GoT if you're put off by 'unrealistic'. It's far more realistic than most things that happen in show

Jayop

SimonTemplar wrote: »

I don't mean to be so harsh because I still think it's fantastic TV but, good God, Littlefinger has become a joke of a character. "I love your sister like I loved your mother". Jesus Christ!!

I think it was perfectly in keeping with the character and how much of a creep he is. Bare in mind that someone being with or being married to two people from the same family after one dies is standard in the show so its not much of a shocking line. Ned stark with cat after his brother died. Margery with joffery and tomeen to give two examples.

Jayop

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

What exactly was Greyworm thrusting into Missandei? Did the power of love cause his 'worm' to grow back?:p

P.S. is Arya launching her very own Paw Patrol?

You could only think it was a heterosexual form of scissoring.

Mr Crispy

They made it quite clear that it was his tongue!

leggo

I was watching it with mates so had a laugh at that scene doing Greyworm impressions. "Missandei, I want **** you with stump."

But yeah, he's so dead.

Loafing Oaf

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

They made it quite clear that it was his tongue!

But there seemed to be a bit of groin to groin action going on too IIRC...

seamus

Alanhooly wrote: »

Unrealistic? Haha.

I guess I mean it seemed like he was "making an entrance" for the sake of an exciting scene rather than it being a plot point.

A number of interviews have stated that they've shortened this season so as to allow them to spend more money on each episode (and also drag it out for one more season), my big concern is that they're going to put spectacle and excitement above the storytelling.

The whole ship scene didn't allay that fear - dodgy lines from Ellaria followed by token lesbianism and then Euron making a needlessly action-packed entrance.

Brief_Lives

Bronn's favourite sand snake is left, correct?
Could be a good opportunity to introduce him into the action next week.

leggo

seamus wrote: »

I guess I mean it seemed like he was "making an entrance" for the sake of an exciting scene rather than it being a plot point.

A number of interviews have stated that they've shortened this season so as to allow them to spend more money on each episode (and also drag it out for one more season), my big concern is that they're going to put spectacle and excitement above the storytelling.

The whole ship scene didn't allay that fear - dodgy lines from Ellaria followed by token lesbianism and then Euron making a needlessly action-packed entrance.

I dunno, before we stuck on the show in mine we were talking about what to expect and I made the point that Game Of Thrones mid-season formula, plus shorter seasons, meant that from now until the last 2-3 episodes we'll get character development up until the last 10-20 minutes then a big set piece finish, with a major development to account for lack of time left. I probably could've guessed the sea battle if I'd have thought about the pre-season trailer and where we are in the story now, doh!

The episode kinda followed the formula in hindsight, to be fair. So I don't know if it's like we can say that there's much changes to this season. That's kinda exactly what we've always gotten from GoT.

(Note: we're also due one episode with a heart-warming/inspirational ending, likely centring around Dany. Looking at the runtimes for episodes, I'd say that's coming around episode 4, with the last three episodes reserved for unabashed ****ery)

podgemonster

Brief_Lives wrote: »

Bronn's favourite sand snake is left, correct?
Could be a good opportunity to introduce him into the action next week.

He wants "the bad pussy" I believe was the phrase.

However Robson Jerome and Lena Headley can not appear in the same scenes due to personal reasons.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

pickarooney wrote: »

Well, looks like we got ourselves a READER!

How have you deduced that from what I said. There are no books to read, so what exactly are you talking about?

Vojera wrote: »

It was very obvious that Brianne had killed Stannis. There is no evidence to suggest Asha has been killed.

Jayop

podgemonster wrote: »

He wants "the bad pussy" I believe was the phrase.

However Robson Jerome and Lena Headley can not appear in the same scenes due to personal reasons.

I never heard that before. Interesting

Mr Crispy

podgemonster wrote: »

He wants "the bad pussy" I believe was the phrase.

However Robson Jerome and Lena Headley can not appear in the same scenes due to personal reasons.

:pac:

EagererBeaver

Joel Substantial Year wrote: »

How have you deduced that from what I said. There are no books to read, so what exactly are you talking about?



It was very obvious that Brianne had killed Stannis. There is no evidence to suggest Asha has been killed.

Her name isn't Asha in the show.